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Regarding Dark Knight...

Would you be on ICly?  

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I feel like DRK lorewise is going to be inherently more powerful than other jobs (not talking mechanically). Paladins are just really good sword-and-boarders of a particular style, and Warriors have this inner power. 

 

But Dark Knights not only have this huge greatsword, but have an external power and can throw around dark magic at everything etc.

 

At some cost.

 

That's always been DRK's theme. At some cost.

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For all we know we're headed to another super special chosen one storyline like WHM or DRG and that's the explanation for why they have mastery over two spheres.

 

If I'm going to be the Chosen One, I want a face on my tongue.

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I feel like DRK lorewise is going to be inherently more powerful than other jobs (not talking mechanically). Paladins are just really good sword-and-boarders of a particular style, and Warriors have this inner power. 

 

But Dark Knights not only have this huge greatsword, but have an external power and can throw around dark magic at everything etc.

 

At some cost.

 

That's always been DRK's theme. At some cost.

 

My favorite words. Gosh dang it, I wonder if I will have to level this. :(

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Enh, you got me. I tended to not use DRK so I glanced over their skillset and filled in what I know from XI. Point: Lalafell!

 

Still, their philosophy as an opposite to paladin has sort of always been there: DRK hurts itself to damage others. Paladin hurts himself to protect others (i.e., Cover). It'll be interesting to see how DRK plays out lore-wise. I need to know where the darkness powers come into play.

 

Well, in FFXI, they COULD use some low-level Black Magic... but it's the only case in which they do. In fact, the Magic Knight in FFIII (renamed Dark Knight in the later re-release) could actually cast White Magic. I didn't actually know that bit until I looked at the wiki. They've also been the status effect guys in a game or two. Quite a wide spread of minor additional traits, I must say.

 

Still, the overarching theme to them (and FFXI still had this to a degree) was "sacrifice HP to do things." Said "things" include increased attack, increased defense, and being able to attack all enemies at once. Melkire really nails it with his elegantly succinct "at some cost" description that he posted while I was typing this up. :lol:

 

They are also known for usually either having the equipment for, or abilities that, drain HP/MP from enemies (the Blood equipment, Gaff Gafgarion's Dark and Night Sword attacks in FFT), which I'm honestly curious whether or not they'll get in FFXIV. If they're not paying their HP for stuff, it would still certainly be something nice to have but not nearly as required with Bloodbath and Mercy Stroke already in the game. Perhaps something for MP, given they'll apparently be more MP focused than the other two tanks? I would assume they'd need something greater than a Riot Blade analogue.

 

All the talk of darkness shrouds on enemies and such, though, AGAIN reminds me of DnD. There was an assassin class in... 3e/4e, I believe? Anyway, they could put shroud stacks on enemies and could "remove" them in order to boost their damage. I vaguely remember something about the shrouds also causing debuffs on the enemy? I'll have to re-read what has been provided thus far before I can make any substantial assumptions on how the mechanic might work.

 

But that really is just all mechanic stuff though, and not so much lore. Have even less on that than we do the mechanics, so it's definitely a "wait and see" situation here.

 

I'd have to refute them being "more powerful" than the other jobs, though. Because ALL the Jobs are forgotten or nearly-forgotten ancient arts (save Paladin and Dragoon) that are also exceedingly powerful. As powerful as DRK might be, lore-wise, you're also dealing with Shantotto's Black Magic, the Allagan's binding of primal essences to you will, and taking the might of dragons for one's own, to name a few. Not to mention that, while tapping into one's chakra or Inner Beast might not sound as impressive, but they're still equally as powerful given what people can do with it. Even the other new Jobs being brought to table already has one that, as has already been spoiled, can STOP TIME with their limit break - that's pretty powerful.

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I assume (but not holding my tongue) Dark Knight might be race locked.

 

From the pictures we've seen only Au Ra seem to be in the DRK armor with the relic, while MCH & AST have hyur and Miq in them.

 

Unless people count the Miq with the Burtang and Cloud outfit as a DRK, in which then I'd be like whatever I guess.

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I assume (but not holding my tongue) Dark Knight might be race locked.

 

From the pictures we've seen only Au Ra seem to be in the DRK armor with the relic, while MCH & AST have hyur and Miq in them.

 

Unless people count the Miq with the Burtang and Cloud outfit as a DRK, in which then I'd be like whatever I guess.

 

I can't see that happening. In a game where the mechanic is that anyone can be anything, I seriously doubt they'd lock their new Jobs behind "you must be this race" along with the MSQ barrier. It completely undermines the whole concept and would do little more than infuriate the fan-base.

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Im just throwing the possibility out there.

 

I don't mean so far as the fact you can't OOC choose it. I mean rp lore wise, it might be race locked to Au Ra. Or the WoL can be one because special snowflake.

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Im just throwing the possibility out there.

 

I don't mean so far as the fact you can't OOC choose it. I mean rp lore wise, it might be race locked to Au Ra. Or the WoL can be one because special snowflake.

 

WHM was race-locked to padjal.

 

Hey, it could happen.

 

 

 

MCWOOOOOOORLD

/em shreds a guitar solo

 

 

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i would rather have conditions to unlock DRK Job like 30 Marauder 20 Thaumaturge.

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Im just throwing the possibility out there.

 

I don't mean so far as the fact you can't OOC choose it. I mean rp lore wise, it might be race locked to Au Ra. Or the WoL can be one because special snowflake.

 

WHM was race-locked to padjal.

 

Hey, it could happen.

 

 

 

MCWOOOOOOORLD

/em shreds a guitar solo

 

 

 

Ah, yeah. That might be possible. Again, that's lore details, of which he have scarce few. If I may ask, though, what's the reasoning for the assumption? Is it just the art? Because I would simply figure that was to show off both the new race and the new Job at the same time.

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Im just throwing the possibility out there.

 

I don't mean so far as the fact you can't OOC choose it. I mean rp lore wise, it might be race locked to Au Ra. Or the WoL can be one because special snowflake.

 

WHM was race-locked to padjal.

 

Hey, it could happen.

 

 

 

MCWOOOOOOORLD

/em shreds a guitar solo

 

 

 

 

Ah, yeah. That might be possible. Again, that's lore details, of which he have scarce few. If I may ask, though, what's the reasoning for the assumption? Is it just the art? Because I would simply figure that was to show off both the new race and the new Job at the same time.

That was one of the reasons yeah.

 

The biggest reason though, is that you only see Au Ra in DRK armor,  yet not in the other classes. Coupled with the fact is /is/ coming with Heavensward and so far it hasn't even been spoken of in game by any quest or NPC.

 

It just looks all to specific to me is all. Like I said I could be wrong but whatever i guess.

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Splitting the difference: Dark Knight might be the Au Ra "main" job that they bring with them, similar to Doma and the Ninja line.

now i cant stop thinking that a Au Ra would be a mentor for DRKs then again a padjal was a mentor for Conjurers

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well i see Dark knight as a Corrupted Paladin it would be Tempting for a Paladin to Fall into Darkness AKA do a Reverse Cecil.

 

It doesn't matter how you see it, it only matters who SE presents the class in the context of the game. Paladins in XIV aren't holy, and they're already plenty corruptible.

 

Well, that's if you are running the Dark Knight as a Dark Knight as presented in the game. You could certainly run a Paladin that is "corrupted" and still uses the Paladin skillset and whatnot - there's nothing like the DnD Paladin-style vow-to-the-gods mechanic that strips you of your abilities if you step awry, after all. Conversely, you could have a Paladin who takes up whatever darky-dark-darkness path the Dark Knight's method provides for whatever nefarious purposes while still claiming to be a Paladin. Then you technically have a "Corrupted" Paladin despite mechanically being a Dark Knight.

 

It's all really in how you spin it, and how those you RP regularly with react to it.

 

Hm, I should backpedal clarify that I'm taking on the "anti-paladin" concept that always seem the link these two jobs. Traditionally, PLD and DRK wear the same types of gear, do the same types of damage and one channels white magic while the other channels dark magic.

 

That doesn't really work in XIV, though, because paladins aren't holy knights here. They're just knights. Being a fallen knight is an angle, sure, but there's no "falling" away from the light in this case. Sultansworn are guards with a unique sprite, and Free Paladins are trained in a specific method of combat. If you turn away from that, you're not really... evil? You just don't use that style/method/job anymore.

 

Hm, I guess what I mean is that ANYONE can "fall" and embrace Dark Knight. There's nothing inherently anti-paladin about it.

UNLESS Raubahn gets an awesome metal arm (I want him to just put a SWORD there) and becomes the DRK trainer, exclusively teaching people anti-paladin methods of fighting. Then I'm waaaay off.

 

 

 

Bolded the part I ment to focus on.

 

I'm going to mention that 'other game' that a fair few don't like to talk about. Which is fine because that's not what we are playing here. But their handle on the tried and true Death/Dark Knight concept is more or less just -any- fallen warrior that was resurrected to do a Lich's bidding. Generally they are empowered with some sort of unholy power, dark magics and a quite literally undead in so form. They could have been a Mage, a Priest, a Shaman, decent warrior. It didn't have to be a Paladin or Knight of any kind prior to. The only required bit, was death- constant self suffering. They -must- inflict pain upon others, otherwise they experience what's called the Wracking Pains. And some details about Rune weapons but we won't get into that.

 

That being said, and since quite a bit of how FF works is borrowed from that 'other game' it's likely to me that it'll be any adventurer that will focus their triumphs, downfalls, woes or strengths into their newfound power. The main difference will be that you won't have to be dead at all. At least I hope not. I think if anything, this will be much nicer to RP because you'll not have to follow the 'other games' rules about grimdarkness.

 

 

I do agree that it will likely be ol' one arm, but I also still think of Nero. He's very much a 'hero' to the other guys. I could even go as far as to say his cause was noble, even if it was only for himself.

 

 

I think I've said it before, but I don't think it will be that bad. It's always, always about presentation and I'm very excited about variety from all fronts. AST and MCH should bring great things to the table!

 

 

On the subject of tanking, I'm very much in the agreement that it's much more challenging on this game for one simple reason:

 

That goddamn global cooldown.

 

In any other game I've tanked in, I can't think of a single more limiting feature. Threat in this game is real, it's a huge management and it gets better with experience and time but it never disappears. Whenever you get geared in other times, threat decay isn't as strong as it is here.

 

You constantly have to manage your skills, your mitigation, everything much, much more closely. A single mistake could be really fatal, because you are literally unable to act if something goes wrong in a lot of cases.

 

I hope that DRK isn't going to simply make it 'easier'. I would just like to see a different playstyle to what we already have and just generally add more flavor to the game.

 

 

NOTE: I wrote this hours ago but had to go, just never finished the post.

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well i see Dark knight as a Corrupted Paladin it would be Tempting for a Paladin to Fall into Darkness AKA do a Reverse Cecil.

 

It doesn't matter how you see it, it only matters who SE presents the class in the context of the game. Paladins in XIV aren't holy, and they're already plenty corruptible.

 

Well, that's if you are running the Dark Knight as a Dark Knight as presented in the game. You could certainly run a Paladin that is "corrupted" and still uses the Paladin skillset and whatnot - there's nothing like the DnD Paladin-style vow-to-the-gods mechanic that strips you of your abilities if you step awry, after all. Conversely, you could have a Paladin who takes up whatever darky-dark-darkness path the Dark Knight's method provides for whatever nefarious purposes while still claiming to be a Paladin. Then you technically have a "Corrupted" Paladin despite mechanically being a Dark Knight.

 

It's all really in how you spin it, and how those you RP regularly with react to it.

 

Hm, I should backpedal clarify that I'm taking on the "anti-paladin" concept that always seem the link these two jobs. Traditionally, PLD and DRK wear the same types of gear, do the same types of damage and one channels white magic while the other channels dark magic.

 

That doesn't really work in XIV, though, because paladins aren't holy knights here. They're just knights. Being a fallen knight is an angle, sure, but there's no "falling" away from the light in this case. Sultansworn are guards with a unique sprite, and Free Paladins are trained in a specific method of combat. If you turn away from that, you're not really... evil? You just don't use that style/method/job anymore.

 

Hm, I guess what I mean is that ANYONE can "fall" and embrace Dark Knight. There's nothing inherently anti-paladin about it.

UNLESS Raubahn gets an awesome metal arm (I want him to just put a SWORD there) and becomes the DRK trainer, exclusively teaching people anti-paladin methods of fighting. Then I'm waaaay off.

 

 

 

 

Bolded the part I ment to focus on.

 

I'm going to mention that 'other game' that a fair few don't like to talk about. Which is fine because that's not what we are playing here. But their handle on the tried and true Death/Dark Knight concept is more or less just -any- fallen warrior that was resurrected to do a Lich's bidding. Generally they are empowered with some sort of unholy power, dark magics and a quite literally undead in so form. They could have been a Mage, a Priest, a Shaman, decent warrior. It didn't have to be a Paladin or Knight of any kind prior to. The only required bit, was death- constant self suffering. They -must- inflict pain upon others, otherwise they experience what's called the Wracking Pains. And some details about Rune weapons but we won't get into that.

 

That being said, and since quite a bit of how FF works is borrowed from that 'other game' it's likely to me that it'll be any adventurer that will focus their triumphs, downfalls, woes or strengths into their newfound power. The main difference will be that you won't have to be dead at all. At least I hope not. I think if anything, this will be much nicer to RP because you'll not have to follow the 'other games' rules about grimdarkness.

 

 

I do agree that it will likely be ol' one arm, but I also still think of Nero. He's very much a 'hero' to the other guys. I could even go as far as to say his cause was noble, even if it was only for himself.

 

 

 

I think I've said it before, but I don't think it will be that bad. It's always, always about presentation and I'm very excited about variety from all fronts. AST and MCH should bring great things to the table!

 

 

On the subject of tanking, I'm very much in the agreement that it's much more challenging on this game for one simple reason:

 

That goddamn global cooldown.

 

In any other game I've tanked in, I can't think of a single more limiting feature. Threat in this game is real, it's a huge management and it gets better with experience and time but it never disappears. Whenever you get geared in other times, threat decay isn't as strong as it is here.

 

You constantly have to manage your skills, your mitigation, everything much, much more closely. A single mistake could be really fatal, because you are literally unable to act if something goes wrong in a lot of cases.

 

I hope that DRK isn't going to simply make it 'easier'. I would just like to see a different playstyle to what we already have and just generally add more flavor to the game.

 

 

NOTE: I wrote this hours ago but had to go, just never finished the post.

I've never played other MMOs (at least not enough to reach a point in which parties and roles start to matter), but if tanking in FFXIV is hard then I can't imagine how easy and probably boring it is in other games.

I mean, am I the only one who finds tanking easier than other roles? I find tanking easier than doing high DPS or keeping the party alive.

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Nope you're not alone. I find tanking easier too.

 

It's more often than not tank here, maybe over there for a few, flash here. Stun this.

 

Lol at the end.

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I've never played other MMOs (at least not enough to reach a point in which parties and roles start to matter), but if tanking in FFXIV is hard then I can't imagine how easy and probably boring it is in other games.

I mean, am I the only one who finds tanking easier than other roles? I find tanking easier than doing high DPS or keeping the party alive.

 

Tanking is always a difficult thing to balance out. At the dungeon/leveling stage, it's fairly straightforward: face in proper direction, holds packs. At a raid level it changes to "be in precise position of everyone is dead, good job" or "immediately pick up this add or it kills your healer immediately" or "use your cooldowns correctly or you immediately die and wipe the raid."

 

Other MMOs I've played have the actual threat-managing portion be entirely inconsequential. I don't think WoW, even with all of its adopted add-ons and integrated UI segments, has a threat meter. I remember installing Omen back in my day to show me where threat was so I would know when to slow down, but it doesn't matter at all when the tank makes more threat on the first hit then I create in an entire rotation.

 

I both love and hate that tank actions are less braindead in XIV. It's easy to say "just spam overpower/flash" but that doesn't play the long game - how long between each pull? Will you get to a pack with enough TP/MP for one AoE and then be fucked? Resource management doesn't exist in other MMOs (that I've played). You just run in, hit your "everything fights me forever" buttons and look at procs light up.

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Tanking is stupid easy in this and other games.

 

Doing it well is a different story entirely, and I can tell immediately if someone is mediocre or actually good just with a little bit of coil time together.

 

Same with healing. Any idiot can stand there and spam cure, but developing the tank twister tether method in t13 while the scholar dps's in cleric stance is a whole different story.

 

DPS is the only role where mediocrity is not immediately apparent. As long as they don't fail an instant wipe mechanic it can be hard to notice the bad without a parser.

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Im just throwing the possibility out there.

 

I don't mean so far as the fact you can't OOC choose it. I mean rp lore wise, it might be race locked to Au Ra. Or the WoL can be one because special snowflake.

 

WHM was race-locked to padjal.

 

Hey, it could happen.

 

 

 

MCWOOOOOOORLD

/em shreds a guitar solo

 

 

 

 

Ah, yeah. That might be possible. Again, that's lore details, of which he have scarce few. If I may ask, though, what's the reasoning for the assumption? Is it just the art? Because I would simply figure that was to show off both the new race and the new Job at the same time.

That was one of the reasons yeah.

 

The biggest reason though, is that you only see Au Ra in DRK armor,  yet not in the other classes. Coupled with the fact is /is/ coming with Heavensward and so far it hasn't even been spoken of in game by any quest or NPC.

 

It just looks all to specific to me is all. Like I said I could be wrong but whatever i guess.

 

The Astrologian character they show is an Au Ra as well, but we know those come from Sharlaya while Au Ra come from Othard. I just think they used two of the new Jobs to also showcase the male and female Au Ra, I don't think the race they have portraying the Job is indicative of anything.

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It would be amusing if lore dictated that being an AuRa Astrolgian or Dark Knight was extremely unlikely given the media portrayals.

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Im just saying be prepared to be disappointed rp wise if only Au Ra are DRK worthy.

 

Just showing there's a possibility.

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That disappointment will be immediately brushed aside as well thought out and horrid reasons both are written to get around it.

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Im just saying be prepared to be disappointed rp wise if only Au Ra are DRK worthy.

 

Just showing there's a possibility.

 

Because that stopped white mages. And domans. And people already RPing DRK. And Garlean spies. And voidsent. And Ascians.

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My DRK unlocked the secrets of the powers of Darkness by listening to a Linken Park CD backwards.

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