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LadyRochester

Killing your character ~ Thoughts?

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Their reasoning doesn't seem to go beyond:

"BECAUSE I DON'T WANT MY CHARACTER TO BE SADD!!1!" So, I have a few questions for the RPC regarding character death.

 

Hmm. It might be a matter of lack of context but I'd be minorly annoyed if my story telling took a back burner to how my friends wanted their characters to be happy/comfortable, but then again I'm a roleplayer that adores dipping into more mature roleplay and finding others of similar mind.

 

 

However, I believe that if the person is uncomfortable OOCly it is their responsibility to voice this, preferably openly and clearly as difficult as it might be, because unless both parties understand each other one can only rely on assumptions, such as the assumption that saying "my character would be sad" is a low-key suggestion that the player isn't comfortable with it. At the end of the day, if someone decides to stop being friends with you because of your decision with your character, your creative property, it's probably for the best. I believe there's a lot of situations where killing a character can really cause a buttload of problems for the other roleplayer, but only saying "my character would be sad" is an insufficient argument at a face value.

 

There are no victims to be had when someone chooses not to communicate, in my opinion. We're not all mind-readers here, gotta cut us some slack!

 

Yeah, I agree completely. I understand why the reticence (it can be embarrassing to admit that you're upset by something that no one else seems to be), but it's not helpful, and I doubt anyone could blame [former] friends for not prising your real feelings out of you when you could have just chosen to voice them up-front. It's not anyone's job to go chasing after you.

 

I do also agree that it's genuinely for the best if people with strongly differing desires and attitudes towards RP recognise when their wants and needs are valid but irreconcilable and part ways amiably. Character death is one of those issues where it can get really difficult to make functional compromises, so being able to say "I've really enjoyed our time together but this isn't working out" without it turning into a blow-up is...

 

Well, preferable. But difficult.

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1. Have you killed your character before?

Yes, I have killed off several main characters of mine before.

 

2. How did your friends take it?

Some either get shocked or disappointed that they won't see said character again, which to me is normal especially if you stay in touch with the character for awhile. Generally the negativity dies down quickly, people move on like any mature human being should and those who are good roleplayers use the event to develop their own character plots. Most people though I RP with are usually reasonable enough in handling such cases decently.

 

3. Would you not want to RP with someone who may unceremoniously kill off their character? Why?

I would prefer an RPer that isn't afraid of killing off their character than someone who would break character to have them survive because OOCly it might cause "harm" to them or others. I don't see the reason to persecute someone over their decision to do what they want with their character, I believe doing so is incredibly self-centered and immature.

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1. No, though I haven't gotten a RP in and certainly not as far as to where it would be an option. Even then I would likely find a less...permanent way of putting her on a bus.

 

2. The answer is unavailable due to the above. I don't even have any RP friends to mourn her potential death

 

3. Dunno, I currently have as one of her flaws an intense desire to avenge her friends and allies, having them come back to life like that would make it more of a flaw. On the other hand, that trait is very similar to a certain ebon dragon, a certain Azure Dragoon and probably Raubahn's outrage at the Banquet, so whether or not I would continue RP afterwards would depend on how it would be handled, if it not being permanent was part of the "plan" (IE discussed with me before hand in PMs) and if I want to go on that angle at some point (especially if the assailant isn't actually a Villain like Livia and Zepherin were).

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My RP background is Neverwinter Nights servers, which have a very different set of social norms than we see here (they resemble LARPs), due to the presence of DMs who have authority above other players.

 

 

1. Yes, a couple of times, but I'll focus on just one: My character was involved in a plot with very high stakes and lost. The DM overseeing the plot offered me a chance to save my character, which I refused.

 

2. Some of my long-time RP buddies quit the server. It was completely silent, the players didn't talk to me nor the DM involved about what happened; they just stopped playing in the days after my character's death was announced. This sort of thing is fairly common in NWNRP-culture, too, but no one really talks about it. We all accept permadeath as necessity, so there's sort-of an unspoken rule against complaining about a permadeath (especially one that wasn't your own character) - but at the same time, we all play for fun. If the death of a character makes continuing to play someone whose RP was heavily tied up in theirs un-fun, there's nothing else to do but quit.

 

3. I'd have more problems with someone who says that they'll never kill their character no matter what than with someone who says that they might kill their character unceremoniously. That said - I don't RP to just be an audience to other people's writing, and I doubt many people do. If you are planning on killing off your character, make sure that the people you commonly RP with are invested in the reasons why your character is dying, and respect the agency of other players at all steps along the way.

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1. I've killed many of my characters in tabletop, so much so that I have a reputation in my group for suicidal apathy, and I very much enjoy the idea of running a meatgrinder storyline in the vein of the OSR movement; I have yet to find many people who would agree.

 

Online, I've killed a few characters. One was years ago in the wilds of AOL RP after a fight went bad, and he took his lumps and died. Life went on. Others have died as I deemed it appropriate to the plot.

 

There was a post I made much earlier in my time on RPC where I said I rolled each month for Verad to abruptly die of old age, and the percent chance gradually increased. I eventually abandoned that, for reasons described in 3. But it was certainly in the cards, and it still is if I sign him up for a roll event where death is a possible consequence of failure.

 

2. Reactions were mixed, ranging from "I respect that had the guts to pull the trigger on your own character" to "How could you waste your own story like that?"

 

3. I'm conflicted on this, because I think most people are generally bad at killing their characters for roleplaying purposes no matter how much pomp and ceremony they put into it. I include myself in this; I look back at several of these deaths and feel that they were done mostly for my own self-aggrandizement in whatever plot was being run at the time. Even in tabletop, when the deaths were the product of bad dice, I had put myself in positions where I'd be the hero of the table if I managed to succeed. My ego was writ large in the decision and I suspect that's the case for a pretty significant number of dramatic roleplaying deaths, hence abandoning the death-by-old-age plan I'd originally put in place.

 

Regarding the "unceremonious" part, I'm fine with that from my tabletop background, but I like to know at the start of the game if it's a possibility, and like to establish that it's a possibility if I'm the one running anything. Online, I think it's a contradiction; a sudden and unexpected death, however mundane the portrayal, becomes a big and shocking swerve because people either expect no deaths, or highly public, highly tragic ones. I'm not actually sure unceremonious death can happen at all online.

 

I want to add a fourth question, though: All else being equal, why would you choose to kill your character over retiring them alive? For the purposes of this, set aside when the death may have some narrative impact, as Sasha is planning. I mean a situation like Virella's, where the character's story is effectively done, and there is no further progression to be made. At that point, what's the value of death over living retirement?

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1. Have you killed your character before?

 

Honestly, I have not. I've never had the reason to kill a character off. However, I do retire characters, which doesn't mean the character is dead, but just that their story has ended and they're living a normal life, riding their horse (or chocobo) into the sunset. 

 

2. How did your friends take it?

 

When I retired characters? Pretty hard. Some kept trying to persuade me to continue but others supported me. I'm sure it's the same way with killing off characters, you just get a mix of 50/50. 

 

3. Would you not want to RP with someone who may unceremoniously kill off their character? Why?

 

 

Nah, I'd still RP with them. I would probably want to talk about why they want to kill off their character and how they would do it first. 

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1. Have you killed your character before?

2. How did your friends take it?

3. Would you not want to RP with someone who may unceremoniously kill off their character? Why?

 

1. Oh, I have done it. Quite a lot in the past, actually. Especially when I retire from a game/server.

2. Depends. Some people take it as part of the story and roll with it, some don't. It depended on how it went. I tend to RP with the mindset that at any given moment, one bad roll and that's it. Of course, I rather talk it out and plan ahead, but some interactions have made me aware some people like to spring out death on things, so I might as well be mentally ready for it at all times.

3. I wouldn't really mind. If they want to kill their characters, that's fine by me. Just make it something that makes sense to the situation. I have a friend who killed her drunken and constantly fighting Sith in a bar fight back in SWTOR. That's fine-ish (I mean, SITH). 

 

 

I think killing characters is a very personal thing. And yes, RP means sharing a lot. So, this is one of those things that need to be taken slowly and talked out. Regardless of the outcome, whether the character dies or not, the player behind the character is the most important part of the whole experience of RP and their decisions, we agree or not, should be respected. Say how their actions affect our characters, maybe try to talk things out, but if it goes, just go with the current.

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All else being equal, why would you choose to kill your character over retiring them alive?

 

A complicated question worthy of a complicated answer.

 

First off, I'd like to start by saying that I really do enjoy this character. I have not grown bored of her, and I still see a lot of potential growth. However, this is also a very controversial character.

 

She has manipulated, lied, deceived, gotten other players killed and/or put into extremely difficult, miserable situations (With the RP'er's consent beforehand, of course). This is a character that has made a lot of enemies (and friends), so getting killed by someone is not completely unexpected.

 

Truth is, this is due to how other characters and players have expressed their desire to have her killed. I am not against this, as long as they are willing to understand the following rules:

 

1. If my character is up for perma-death, so should yours.

2. Expect her former friends/contacts to pursue her killer and attempt to kill them in turn.

3. The RP should be organic, the possibility of death is there, but it should remain as what it is: A possibility. It is not, and never will be, a certainty until the kill is done and over with.

Currently, one of her enemies (an active alt of my main RP partner for almost 3 years now) follows all these rules, and does have a valid reason to want her killed. I don't mind re-rolling my character, and it would make for a good story. MOST of my friends have expressed a lot of interest in this storyline, most.

 

Keep in mind, even with all the rules being followed, this isn't a character that can easily be killed based off the fact she is almost never, ever alone. She always has someone watching her back, as she is pretty paranoid about others.

 

TL;DR: At this point, it would be unrealistic for someone not to want to kill her, and since a few have asked for the chance, I'm offering it to them. It's for the sake of an interesting story for a character that probably deserves what's coming for her.

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I apologize if this turns into a derailing tangent.

 

1. If my character is up for perma-death, so should yours.

2. Expect her former friends/contacts to pursue her killer and attempt to kill them in turn.

3. The RP should be organic, the possibility of death is there, but it should remain as what it is: A possibility. It is not, and never will be, a certainty until the kill is done and over with.

 

Currently, one of her enemies (an active alt of my main RP partner for almost 3 years now) follows all these rules, and does have a valid reason to want her killed. I don't mind re-rolling my character, and it would make for a good story. MOST of my friends have expressed a lot of interest in this storyline, most.

 

Keep in mind, even with all the rules being followed, this isn't a character that can easily be killed based off the fact she is almost never, ever alone. She always has someone watching her back, as she is pretty paranoid about others.

 

How come it always seems a proclamation of player death being an option is always followed by a clarifying statement of why it would be super hard for it to happen to them?

 

It's not even just Sasha saying that. I'd be in the same boat if I courted player death with any seriousness (I don't).

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I apologize if this turns into a derailing tangent.

 

 

How come it always seems a proclamation of player death being an option is always followed by a clarifying statement of why it would be super hard for it to happen to them?

 

It's not even just Sasha saying that. I'd be in the same boat if I courted player death with any seriousness (I don't).

 

I don't want people to think I'm killing off my character without putting any resistance 'for the lulz' which seems to be the impression a lot are getting. I got a PM from a player after I posted this thread where they  claimed  they would want to 'legally kill' my character because of all of her crimes.

 

Which to me translates to: "I want to kill your character and not suffer any consequences"

 

Hence the clarification.

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How come it always seems a proclamation of player death being an option is always followed by a clarifying statement of why it would be super hard for it to happen to them?

 

RP communities generally have this peculiar understanding that all conflict must follow a 50-50 routine to avoid OOC conflict or claims of powergaming (even if the odds are completely unbalanced in a realistic and IC perspective), be they in spars, fights, duels to the death, etc.

 

In the event someone says "I'm going to kill your character for x reasons" a fine majority of people will want to bargain with this person OOCly to give them a potential gap throughout the conflict for their characters to avoid death.

 

There are cases however where the person who is refusing death is the one being unreasonable, for example this person might have killed x character or committed x atrocity but are refusing any proposed consequence that may occur to their character. A lot of people have this huge habit to void all responsibility for their character's action which defeats the purpose of roleplaying with a dynamic community and also makes character death come off as "unappealing" to some.

 

I don't want people to think I'm killing off my character without putting any resistance 'for the lulz' which seems to be the impression a lot are getting. I got a PM from a player after I posted this thread where they  claimed  they would want to 'legally kill' my character because of all of her crimes.

 

Which to me translates to: "I want to kill your character and not suffer any consequences"

 

Hence the clarification.

 

I have no idea what they might have sent you exactly, but if this player is willing to kill your character, it would only be normal for them to expect consequences from other player characters in attacking them if the word gets out that they're out to kill you.

 

The same logic applies to the opposite party, otherwise where's the fun behind a conflict? Problem with that is people always take these things personally and seek to complain when things do not go their way because as you may know it the world revolves around them and them alone.

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snip

 

Oh, I mean I get it but I don't get it. The short version breaks down to this:

 

I'm totally okay character death. Here's all of the reasons why you would likely die if you tried to kill me though...

 

Edit:

 

You could further shorten that to

 

I'm okay with me killing you.

 

That isn't what's being done here, mind. I just find the general statement curious.

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I apologize if this turns into a derailing tangent.

 

How come it always seems a proclamation of player death being an option is always followed by a clarifying statement of why it would be super hard for it to happen to them?

 

It's not even just Sasha saying that. I'd be in the same boat if I courted player death with any seriousness (I don't).

 

Because there are players out there who see IC deaths as a mark of player skill and the statement "It is possible for my character to die" as an invitation instead of an option. I remember a lot of profiles from old RP chats which would include "I have killed this many characters" as a badge of honor.

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How come it always seems a proclamation of player death being an option is always followed by a clarifying statement of why it would be super hard for it to happen to them?

 

 

 

I have no idea what they might have sent you exactly, but if this player is willing to kill your character, it would only be normal for them to expect consequences from other player characters in attacking them if the word gets out that they're out to kill you.

 

The same logic applies to the opposite party, otherwise where's the fun behind a conflict? Problem with that is people always take these things personally and seek to complain when things do not go their way because as you may know it the world revolves around them and them alone.

 

 

My concern lies in the fact I had too many characters torture/harrass/betray my character and then dissappear off the RP sphere when she sought them out for revenge or to make them pay for what they did to her. I don't know this roleplayer too well, and from the sounds of it, they wanted to have an assured kill of my character without a roll battle or anything of the sort. 

 

As I said, if I'm killing this character, I want it done as organically as possible, which should be approached via a roll battle so there's an equal chance for life or death.

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How come it always seems a proclamation of player death being an option is always followed by a clarifying statement of why it would be super hard for it to happen to them?

 

 

 

I have no idea what they might have sent you exactly, but if this player is willing to kill your character, it would only be normal for them to expect consequences from other player characters in attacking them if the word gets out that they're out to kill you.

 

The same logic applies to the opposite party, otherwise where's the fun behind a conflict? Problem with that is people always take these things personally and seek to complain when things do not go their way because as you may know it the world revolves around them and them alone.

 

 

My concern lies in the fact I had too many characters torture/harrass/betray my character and then dissappear off the RP sphere when she sought them out for revenge or to make them pay for what they did to her. I don't know this roleplayer too well, and from the sounds of it, they wanted to have an assured kill of my character without a roll battle or anything of the sort. 

 

As I said, if I'm killing this character, I want it done as organically as possible, which should be approached via a roll battle so there's an equal chance for life or death.

What if you were outnumbered or if your potential killer successfully manages to spike your drink?

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How come it always seems a proclamation of player death being an option is always followed by a clarifying statement of why it would be super hard for it to happen to them?

 

 

 

I have no idea what they might have sent you exactly, but if this player is willing to kill your character, it would only be normal for them to expect consequences from other player characters in attacking them if the word gets out that they're out to kill you.

 

The same logic applies to the opposite party, otherwise where's the fun behind a conflict? Problem with that is people always take these things personally and seek to complain when things do not go their way because as you may know it the world revolves around them and them alone.

 

 

My concern lies in the fact I had too many characters torture/harrass/betray my character and then dissappear off the RP sphere when she sought them out for revenge or to make them pay for what they did to her. I don't know this roleplayer too well, and from the sounds of it, they wanted to have an assured kill of my character without a roll battle or anything of the sort. 

 

As I said, if I'm killing this character, I want it done as organically as possible, which should be approached via a roll battle so there's an equal chance for life or death.

What if you were outnumbered or if your potential killer successfully manages to spike your drink?

 

 

That's fair enough,  I suppose. I'd have to do a perception roll, and if it succeeds, chances are she'll call for help to at least be carried out of any danger zone. As far as outnumbering goes, well... She'd be fucked. She'd try to save her ass with diplomacy, but she'd be fucked. Can't argue with that.

 

I suppose I could always boost the party that's outnumbered to make it a more fair match, but there would have to be a canon reason for that 'boost'.

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