discussion Welp Dragoons, it was a good run, but we are all now either retired or dead

[AlionLucada]

I honestly don't see the issue here. Dragoons can salute and acknowledge other Dragoons. It's doubtful that you would EVER be in RP with ALL 30 or so IC Dragoons at the same time. So why why get all bent out of shape. People RP as Paladins (very few), Scholars (lost art), SMNs (lost art), WHMs (lost art), etc. All the time.

 

 

If anything this should IMO INCREASE people doing open RP or walk-ups to the IC Dragoons because they would be basically famous to Ishgardians. To even RP and make your own story is lore breaking in-and-of itsself because we are all WOL, technically. 

 

If you enjoy RP as a DRG, continue to RP as a DRG. Just know the rules have changed abit, but this is supposed to be FUN.

 

 

And being the lore police over something like this imo is silly. Unlike say, being a Samurai or Red Mage when the jobs or lore hasn't been even introduced in the canon yet.

 

I thought WHM was a forbidden art, not lost?...if so there is a difference there. Either way, I have noted many dragoons calling themselves knight dragoons or retired dragoons. I saw someone call themselves a dragoon reservist, meant to go active should war start once more.

 

Forbidden, lost whatever. My point is that really only the Padjal are supposed to know white magic and the WOL is the ONLY non Padjal to even have a smattering of training in it. And yet...we have WHM RPers. So I mean...I don't see the alarm here.

 

Saying "well RPers RP stuff they shouldn't all the time so why care at all??" is a pretty bad excuse.

[Halorien]

I wouldn't phrase it that 'every RP character is a form of lore breaking' that's exceedingly negative in its format, in my opinion. That said, There's truly no reason why someone cannot write a Dragoon. At this point, there's no sense in being part of the Ishgardian active duty Dragoon Unit as it is. 

 

So absolutely, your characters are retired, having gone on to seek other employment; perhaps intend to see the rest of the world if they are Ishgardian, etc. There's a half a million ways to swing it while acknowledging the written Lore as a guideline.

[S'imba]

That being said, don't be surprised or upset if you encounter people who follow the lore

 

Or at least allege to.

 

Lol I agree, no one follows the lore. 

 

Every RP character is a form of lore breaking. Or show me in the lorebook where it has your character in there.

This right here, when you create a character you're writing your own lore into the game world. Characters that are written to follow the lore to the absolute t tend to be uninteresting Imo. It's the other side of the coin of people who think they need to be a super special character to be interesting. 

 

I want to meet characters who interact with the world. Nor just sit around the quicksand and chat about how they spend their day reading at the ossuray day in and day out telling me about some little lore tidbit that they read about. 

 

At some point a character is going to have to go out on a limb and fill in their own lore at some point. Because it's entirely unreasonable to expect SE to have written every single detail into the world. I can only imagine how soul crushing it must feel to go to these lore panels knowing you're going to be bombarded by questions that probably never crossed their minds. Knowing they'll need a lot of improvising when they get asked a question like, how do these jellyfish fly? I honestly can't imagine that's something they thought about when it was designed.

[111]

The only reason people ever have for saying things like "You can't be a Dragoon" is because Dragoons are cool and they fight dragons and they're in the trailer for Heavensward and Estinien is hot and everyone wants to be a dragoon. 

 

Other people are Dragoons and they have a lot of fun being dragoons but somehow that is NOT OK, because it makes your adventurer feel less cool. "It's not that my character isn't strong/cool/interesting enough it's that they're SPECIAL SNOWFLAKES."

 

And now everyone is like AH HA. I knew it! There aren't that many dragoons!!!! You're not allowed to play what you want! You have to RP like I do! Everything has to be Generic! SEE THE LORE BOOK SAYS RIGHT THERE, ALL YOU DRAGOONS HAVE BEEN DOING IT WRONG. 

 

These are the same people who will say the same things once Stormblood comes out and it turns out there are only like 5 monks or something.

[Gegenji]

OKAY.

 

Just going to throw this out here - all personal opinion.

 

This thread really shouldn't be about kicking the DRG players while they're down. It shouldn't be "you're bad and should feel bad" for wanting to play a character concept. As stated, this could happen to the MNKs come the next expansion, or some other bit of lore could drop that ruins someone's character concept. Like "there are no Garlean spies in the city-states" or something.

 

What we should focus on is where the players can go from here. Having to retcon everything certainly sucks, but fortunately there have been many suggestions in this very thread on how to take what we were given and still keep a DRG character relatively "lore compliant." Plus, we don't even know where the DRGs are going since the information in the book is only valid up until... 3.3?

 

Sure, the dragons aren't the enemies now... but maybe they'll become allies. Dragoons riding dragon-partners and having tandem techniques. Or perhaps they'll still have use against other aerial opponents - like the griffonriders of Ala Mhigo or any of the flying tech of the Garleans. So there's nothing saying that the number as its presented is going to remain static - nor that this new information is any sort of death knell for DRG RPers.

 

So, I think we should focus on how to roll with this... how to adapt to it... and how both existing and future DRGs can seek to "fit in" to the new lore as has been presented. Should they wish to.

[Virella]

That said, I don't think Monks will be shafted due to the fact the main temple was purged, and not all temples. I imagine others have been burned down after, but... at least the monks were given the chance to leave before the army came.

 

I still don't think there are that many (elder) monks to begin with, but that's another topic.

[Oli!]

As stated, this could happen to the MNKs come the next expansion, or some other bit of lore could drop that ruins someone's character concept. Like "there are no Garlean spies in the city-states" or something.

 

As far as other classes are considered, I doubt this going to happen, and also think additional doomsaying and "It could happen to you!" also falls in the range of counterproductive comments.

 

Many classes are already in DRG's current state, or ambiguously close to it (WHM, BLM, SMN, etc), and those that currently aren't would require Squeenix to overwrite actual game content (the entire MNK and PLD storylines, for instance) in order for a retcon to take place, which (arguably barring some portions of 1.0) has never happened, and would be far too messy in practice.

 

Ambiguous classes (which DRG honestly always was, and I say this as a factual statement and not as a declaration of whether or not I am on a certain side) are of course barred from this, and could have their lore switched and / or solidified at any time. BLM was placed in the same instance when Heavensward launched, because it too was in a position of ambiguity.

 

Honestly, many of the Jobs were at the time. It's just that for some, things opened up, and for some, things didn't. But for those that are currently solid, I doubt there will be additional fiddling that affects backstory. Current events, however? Very likely.

[Jana]

It could still happen to Monks if SE comes out and says only the Job Trainer and his nine best friends made it out of Gyr Albania alive, and then the expansion gives us 8 more original-Fists of Rhalgr. People currently playing a Monk who escaped Ala Mhigo would either have to retcon their characters as being Shadow Sect or find some kind of loophole around it.

 

Anyway, the DRG and MNK and every other Job RPers I play with are cool, and I'm not about to disassociate with them over a line in the lore book.

[Oli!]

It could still happen to Monks if SE comes out and says only the Job Trainer and his nine best friends made it out of Gyr Albania alive, and then the expansion gives us 8 more original-Fists of Rhalgr. People currently playing a Monk who escaped Ala Mhigo would either have to retcon their characters as being Shadow Sect or find some kind of loophole around it.

 

Anyway, the DRG and MNK and every other Job RPers I play with are cool, and I'm not about to disassociate with them over a line in the lore book.

 

This has always been the case for Old School light-sect people. It's a different case from Dragoon comparatively, since there are stated avenues one may still use to be a monk; with DRG, we may unfortunately only assume.

 

Though I'm also reasonably detached from that risk, because I retconned several elements to Shadow immediately, so I don't have an investment and may be taking that worry incredibly casually in the eyes of other people.

[111]

I've said this before, but lore is a tool to improve RP, not stifle it.

 

No one has to retcon anything lol, if there are less dragoons that just gives you an excuse to write a cool reason why your dragoon exists.

 

Use the lore book to open new doors, not close them.

[AlionLucada]

Pretty sure as long as people who RP MNKs don't come out and say they're grandmasters of their own sect and they're the avatar of Rahlgr they'll be fine.

[111]

Pretty sure as long as people who RP MNKs don't come out and say they're grandmasters of their own sect and they're the avatar of Rahlgr they'll be fine.

Is there a problem if they do?

[Oli!]

I've said this before, but lore is a tool to improve RP, not stifle it.

 

...

 

Use the lore book to open new doors, not close them.

 

This implies that the presented alternatives are "stifling" RP, or that following lore to the letter, which some people prefer to do, does not follow the same line of "improvement." It could be argued that this is a "stifling" viewpoint in and of itself.

 

The issue is that people have different things they want to do, and different preferences within RP, and since the two dominant trains of thought are directly juxtaposed and situated over subjctive ideas of "good" and of "improvement," there will never be agreement.

[Virella]

Pretty sure as long as people who RP MNKs don't come out and say they're grandmasters of their own sect and they're the avatar of Rahlgr they'll be fine.

Nah, they are all busy not worshipping Rhalgr :^) I wish I was kidding, but most Fist of Rhalgr RPers don't worship Rhalgr.

There is a reason why I avoid most other FoR RPers

[111]

Pretty sure as long as people who RP MNKs don't come out and say they're grandmasters of their own sect and they're the avatar of Rahlgr they'll be fine.

Is there a problem if they do?

 

I'm honestly curious what problem it will cause. People always use general language, like they're speaking for a whole group, but in reality they're just speaking their personal opinion.

 

Will it cause an issue for you? How would you react to a player who still says they're a dragoon, or a grandmaster monk?

 

EX: "People might not RP with you." usually translates to "I won't RP with you."

 

*Mod edit happened to aid with thread cleanup.

[AlionLucada]

Pretty sure as long as people who RP MNKs don't come out and say they're grandmasters of their own sect and they're the avatar of Rahlgr they'll be fine.

Is there a problem if they do?

 

I'm honestly curious what problem it will cause. People always use general language, like they're speaking for a whole group, but in reality they're just speaking their personal opinion.

 

Will it cause an issue for you? How would you react to a player who still says they're a dragoon, or a grandmaster monk?

 

Depending on the character I'm playing, as others have said in the thread, I'll either assume their character is lying, drunk or crazy.

 

*Mod edit happened to aid with thread cleanup. 

[111]

Pretty sure as long as people who RP MNKs don't come out and say they're grandmasters of their own sect and they're the avatar of Rahlgr they'll be fine.

Is there a problem if they do?

 

Your stance on all this is fairly clear and you've done little more than attack the people who you disagree with, so I'm not gonna bother explaining why it could pose a problem down the road. =P

I'm honestly curious what problem it will cause. People always use general language, like they're speaking for a whole group, but in reality they're just speaking their personal opinion.

 

Will it cause an issue for you? How would you react to a player who still says they're a dragoon, or a grandmaster monk?

 

Depending on the character I'm playing, as others have said in the thread, I'll either assume their character is lying, drunk or crazy.

 

Understandable, but how is that a Problem? Like, both of you would interact, and you'd go on your ways. 

 

I think most people would be ok with that outcome, and they're willing to accept it. For example, my character claims often and loudly she's the Empress of Garlemald. Everyone smiles and nods and scoots away when she does. 

 

I would get your concern if people were coming on here complaining about how no one accepts their Dragoon RP, but until then your concern seems a bit premature? There are already IC ways of dealing with lore you don't agree with, and you gave a good example of one.

[Nero]

Several posts from this thread have been archived.

 

Please try to keep your contributions civil, relevant, and constructive.

[Delilah Scythewood]

Glancing back over the thread in bits and pieces, sounds like everything from this point on is all about interpretation and how people decide to work with the lore. As well as how they maneuver their character through the curve-ball.

 

Do what you need to do. People will either accept how you worked with the lore or they won't. The latter can just be shrugged off and moved on from. Otherwise? A lot of this is starting to sound like people trying to convince others into their version of how they feel is the best way to move forward while the rest continue to flounder.

 

I think as long as it's acknowledged that most of the officially ordained DRGs are dead or retired, whatever happens from there is up to the creativity of the player and how they found their way from point A to point B.

[111]

I just figured out why SE pegged the current number at 10 dragoons.

 

That's enough for a 5v5 basketball match.

[S'imba]

That 500 foot vertical yo.

 

In all seriousness it doesn't matter how it's handled in the end. Some people are gonna be pissed, some people are going to avoid rping with people, some people are gonna be unhappy someone went and retconned their character, and some will continue on like nothing changed. 

 

Really in the end the most important thing comes down to is that you've got good story and that you're having fun, not getting caught up on little details about whether a character can or can't be something.

[AquiziTC]

I had always figured that a normal dragoon was just like ... an arm of the Ishgardian military, but only really the WoL and Estinien (being Azure Dragoons) were special. I mean hell a PC even trains a new dragoon in the 50-60 quest line so...

 

But I guess it also makes sense since if Dragoons are able to tap into their inner dragon (definitely an Ishgardian thing, what with the blood of dragons and all), maybe only the special few could be chosen to make sure they could control themselves and not succumb. Unless I'm misremembering, it's been over a year since I did those quests and how that whole blood thing was presented. It's either all Ishgardians have it within them, or it's a pure consumption thing like the heretics.

 

I forget exactly.

[AlionLucada]

I imagine it's because RPers are a small niche and they want to make the larger playerbase feel special by saying these classes/jobs are rare or forbidden or one of a kind. Which is fine.

[Maril]

/modhat on

 

Additional cleaning have been carried out on the thread. 

Please do note that the [Discussion] tag is in effect on this thread. 

Keep discussion on-topic, please. 

 

/modhat off

[Valence]

 

 

 

That being said, don't be surprised or upset if you encounter people who follow the lore 

 

 

Or at least allege to.

 

 

Lol I agree, no one follows the lore. 

 

Every RP character is a form of lore breaking. Or show me in the lorebook where it has your character in there.

 

 

Respectfully, that sounds a bit disingenuous..

 

People are not arguing that their characters are part of the lore, they are saying that they don't clash with the lore, or don't break it. Or even bend it.

 

I for once, think that given the correct, convoluted explanations, most jobs are playable ICly. Again, it just is a matter of how far you are willing to push suspension of disbelief. It's not black and white.

 

The only reason people ever have for saying things like "You can't be a Dragoon" is because Dragoons are cool and they fight dragons and they're in the trailer for Heavensward and Estinien is hot and everyone wants to be a dragoon. 

 

Other people are Dragoons and they have a lot of fun being dragoons but somehow that is NOT OK, because it makes your adventurer feel less cool. "It's not that my character isn't strong/cool/interesting enough it's that they're SPECIAL SNOWFLAKES."

 

And now everyone is like AH HA. I knew it! There aren't that many dragoons!!!! You're not allowed to play what you want! You have to RP like I do! Everything has to be Generic! SEE THE LORE BOOK SAYS RIGHT THERE, ALL YOU DRAGOONS HAVE BEEN DOING IT WRONG. 

 

These are the same people who will say the same things once Stormblood comes out and it turns out there are only like 5 monks or something.

 

That's bordering on ascribing nefarious motives to people. I don't think that kind of bullshit brings anything to the discussion at all.

 

 

 

I honestly don't see the issue here. Dragoons can salute and acknowledge other Dragoons. It's doubtful that you would EVER be in RP with ALL 30 or so IC Dragoons at the same time. So why why get all bent out of shape. People RP as Paladins (very few), Scholars (lost art), SMNs (lost art), WHMs (lost art), etc. All the time.

 

 

If anything this should IMO INCREASE people doing open RP or walk-ups to the IC Dragoons because they would be basically famous to Ishgardians. To even RP and make your own story is lore breaking in-and-of itsself because we are all WOL, technically. 

 

If you enjoy RP as a DRG, continue to RP as a DRG. Just know the rules have changed abit, but this is supposed to be FUN.

 

 

And being the lore police over something like this imo is silly. Unlike say, being a Samurai or Red Mage when the jobs or lore hasn't been even introduced in the canon yet.

 

 

I thought WHM was a forbidden art, not lost?...if so there is a difference there. Either way, I have noted many dragoons calling themselves knight dragoons or retired dragoons. I saw someone call themselves a dragoon reservist, meant to go active should war start once more.

 

 

Both more or less. Forbidden by the Elementals and most of Eorzea, like black magic is by everyone.

 

I mean, it doesn't mean that your character can't 'stumble' on an amdapori soulstone somewhere. Sounds silly? Possibly. Goes against the lore? Not really, as far as I know.