Community Full of Cliques

[Rosekitten]

As I said to each their own. What one may enjoy another may not. Maybe the dozens upon dozens is what I feel the issue is. But my original post was a suggestion. I did not say the op should go do this but it is another option she can add to her list if she wishes. My aim was not to derail the thread any or to have people tell me my thought on the matter was wrong because it was not their own. 

 

Also you can scout out a server before you made said choice.  For all the good times I have had on Balmung they are long in the past. Scout out a server if you want to make sure you fit in or will like it there, check the state of houses the market. Do a checklist if you are planning to transfer your character so it won't be a waste of money. Heck make connections before you do it so you know you are going to have rp if you are that worried about it.

 

I'm not suggesting a server jump is for everyone either. Maybe if I didn't have the long list of terrible experiences and memories on the server I wouldn't mind sticking around but to pay the monthly fee and not enjoy myself is just silly.

[FreelanceWizard]

I played back in 1.0, and returned very briefly for ARR, and I do actually remember something about Balmung being called a Legacy server. I remember someone told me you could only create a character there if you had played in 1.0, but tbh, I think that probably wasn't true.

 

It's a rediculous notion in any regard, but I DO remember hearing about it back then.

 

Balmung is a legacy server, which means that it contained characters from 1.x, and you couldn't server transfer from a legacy server to a non-legacy one (a restriction that has long since been removed). Non-legacy servers only allowed new characters to be created or transfers from other non-legacy servers.

 

As Faye points out, there was a kerfuffle back during the ARR launch about that, which is why Gilgamesh and to a lesser extent Behemoth ended up as the non-legacy RP servers. Ultimately, the concerns about the legacy players forming an impenetrable clique, clearing all content first, controlling the market, and dominating the RP scene turned out to be largely non-issues, mostly because there were simply so few legacy players, ARR was a lot different from 1.x, and they had to go through the MSQ just like everyone else.

 

All that aside, the point that Balmung is a giant community is very true. I've been playing since Beta 3, RPing the same character, and there's a wide variety of people on just the RPC alone that I've never actually run into in game, much less RPed with. Not since Virtue in CoH has there been a large game with such a large concentration of RPers on one server. If one corner of the community's not working out, by all means, try another one! Try randomly walking the wiki and making connections there, role-playing in different places, etc.

[MistyMornings]

I played back in 1.0, and returned very briefly for ARR, and I do actually remember something about Balmung being called a Legacy server. I remember someone told me you could only create a character there if you had played in 1.0, but tbh, I think that probably wasn't true.

 

It's a rediculous notion in any regard, but I DO remember hearing about it back then.

 

I do know that around the game's launch, with the RP community getting briefly split between Balmung and Gilgamesh, a lot of those going Gilgamesh were citing the Balmung was a Legacy server full of 1.0 players who would somehow ruin the experience for everyone else and some were even using that as a scare tactic to sway people to Gilgamesh, I dunno, maybe that got misinterpreted (or maybe there were a handful of genuine Legacy assholes).

 

Both are possible, and definitely not mutually exclusive I think! I wasn't really involved enough in the community to get the full picture, but yeah, it was probably something like that.

[Valence]

My personally solution to the issue is looking to a new server. No the community won't be nearly as large but that is not always a bad thing either. Not sure if the OP will read new posts or not but a server change is an option if you really are that unhappy with where you are. (No I didn't read through the pages and pages to see other replies so sorry if it was a suggestion already. I'm sure there is a lot of sound advice in this thread.)

Worst advice given so far. Running from your issues as a shy wallflower aren't going to be magical fixed. In fact, I imagine you only have to try HARDER to get noticed on a server with barely any roleplayers.

Not really running when the only enjoyable rp I have had was from players who long left the game. Anything in the recent years has been a sorry excuse for rp when I did bother. Just because I would enjoy a smaller community myself where I could actually get to know people or know what was going on isn't what I call running. But hey to each their own. As I said.. I had rp and I got noticed. It just never lasted long due to people being fickle on how they wanted to play or rp from day to day. From anyone who has met me in game or back during the beta.. shy is hardly my issue.

 

Player RP fickleness and the fantasia obsessed are a bane in that game, no denying that. I think you just haven't had the luck to find a long lasting group of players with established characters is all.

[ArmachiA]

Balmung's greatest strength is that it has so many rpers, it's also it's greatest weakness. I can count a number of games on fingers and toes that RPers wanted what Balmung had - to pick one rp server for everyone to go to. It never happened obviously, but watching Balmung is watching what people actually wanted and seeing the grass isn't always greener.

 

We can probably easily surmise 75% of all RPers are on Balmung. This means if you want to get some decent RP in and actually find RPers, the best place to go is Balmung - they're everywhere after all! Unfortunately the more RPers there are, the more likely you're going to get lost in a crowd. Most RP servers kind lived on the Supply and Demand theory - where there was always a low supply of RPers so people would be open to RP with whoever they ran passed. On Balmung the supply of RPers is really really high, so demand is lower. We can find exactly what we're looking for in our circles - whether it's Lore compliance, or NPC RP, or Warrior of Light RP, or Non-lore Compliance. Hell, you could probably find a Sailormoon RP group on this server if you looked hard enough.

 

This gives the perception of impenetrable cliques - because we all found what we wanted from whatever circle we're in so we aren't actively looking anymore. That's not to say we don't mind newcomers joining our circle, we just aren't advertising that we're looking. So if groups don't advertise, how does a new person know where to go? The sad part is, you don't. You either have to keep on trucking till you find someone willing to nibble on the line you're throwing out or make your own circle of newbies who also don't have any clue where to go.

 

Are their cliques on the server? Yeah. Are they impenetrable walls? Nah.

[ExAtomos]

Balmung's greatest strength is that it has so many rpers, it's also it's greatest weakness. I can count a number of games on fingers and toes that RPers wanted what Balmung had - to pick one rp server for everyone to go to. It never happened obviously, but watching Balmung is watching what people actually wanted and seeing the grass isn't always greener.

 

We can probably easily surmise 75% of all RPers are on Balmung. This means if you want to get some decent RP in and actually find RPers, the best place to go is Balmung - they're everywhere after all! Unfortunately the more RPers there are, the more likely you're going to get lost in a crowd. Most RP servers kind lived on the Supply and Demand theory - where there was always a low supply of RPers so people would be open to RP with whoever they ran passed. On Balmung the supply of RPers is really really high, so demand is lower. We can find exactly what we're looking for in our circles - whether it's Lore compliance, or NPC RP, or Warrior of Light RP, or Non-lore Compliance. Hell, you could probably find a Sailormoon RP group on this server if you looked hard enough.

 

This gives the perception of impenetrable cliques - because we all found what we wanted from whatever circle we're in so we aren't actively looking anymore. That's not to say we don't mind newcomers joining our circle, we just aren't advertising that we're looking. So if groups don't advertise, how does a new person know where to go? The sad part is, you don't. You either have to keep on trucking till you find someone willing to nibble on the line you're throwing out or make your own circle of newbies who also don't have any clue where to go.

 

Are their cliques on the server? Yeah. Are they impenetrable walls? Nah.

 

Yes to all this. There have been many threads posted about how hard it is to make it on Balmung, getting enough attention, finding good rp to join, etc. I always liken it to moving to a big city. The analogy is apt; Balmung is the most populated server hands down. Just like moving into a new city, you have to put forth a lot of effort to meet new people and find /your/ place, /your/ comfort zone. Folks aren't going to rush up to every new rper, excited to meet them... it would be like expecting everyone to stop and greet you on Wall Street during morning rush hour.

 

Breaking into Balmung takes a lot of time and effort, focused effort like looking at wikis and FC/LS info looking for the type of rp you may be interested in; not just half-assing it a few times, then moping about it. (I've spent months doing exactly this. lol.) I realized recently that I was spending nearly all of my game time leveling and grinding tomes and complaining that I got zero rp. It finally occurred to me, 'Well duh... you're not setting aside time to actually rp.' So now I'm trying to look at it like raiding; the only way I'll get better at it is to continuously throw myself in there, no matter how many times I fail and how frustrated I get. Eventually I will succeed and yay, good times!

:moogle:

 

On a side note: Pretty Guardians (You don't actually have to look hard. )

[Delilah Scythewood]

This may be a more harsh, cruel way to look at things but since doing this I haven't had an issue with cliques or otherwise and it's generally led to more happiness in regards to my interactions both ICly and OOCly with others.

 

1) Approach

2) If a post is overlooked? Whisper the player(s) and see if they didn't just accidentally miss your post.

3) If both the post and the whisper are ignored? Walk away.

 

Walk.

 

Away.

 

That's it. Just walk the @&$% away because if they aren't answering you but are still posting/chatting with friends? They aren't interested in speaking to you or are too distracted to include another individual in the conversation. With that in mind it's better to just focus energy else where or try again at a better time.

 

Hell, sometimes it's not even a matter of 'omg cliques' and moreso attributed to other things like shyness, chat spam, being afk, overlooking a post because of focusing squarely on the posts around them, or just not feeling like being social outside of friends. Hell, I can't count how many times I've shyly shuffled to large events with friends just to stick by them and not really budge out to the rest of the conglomerate.

 

If making the effort didn't yield any results, put that effort towards something else. Hit up some other friends for RP or try another event.

 

Cliques can be frustrating, but they won't stop. They're both normal in MMOs and real life social structure. I've found it's far less fruitful to be angry and better to just shrug it off and move on.

[Kailani]

My personally solution to the issue is looking to a new server. No the community won't be nearly as large but that is not always a bad thing either. Not sure if the OP will read new posts or not but a server change is an option if you really are that unhappy with where you are. (No I didn't read through the pages and pages to see other replies so sorry if it was a suggestion already. I'm sure there is a lot of sound advice in this thread.)

 

Worst advice given so far. Running from your issues as a shy wallflower aren't going to be magical fixed. In fact, I imagine you only have to try HARDER to get noticed on a server with barely any roleplayers.

 

 

Couldn't agree more with this. Running away, or however you want to label it, is a horrible idea. :frustrated: 

 

If anything, the online and RP world helps people with their social skills, dealing with things like rejection, social etiquette, how to treat people, how to deal with the less savory types, faking confidence until you have it and how to become a part of the world without giving up your individuality.  If you continue to bounce around just waiting for someone to notice you based on silly things like your characters hair color or the same outfit every other person is wearing, you'll never get anything done. The idea that there are "too many people to be noticed" is just illogical.

 

Just so another person says it..

- Stay put on the server and bask in the extreme diversity this world offers. 

- Create a unique character using a character sheet if need be, and stick to it. Don't flip flop because of trends or what you think may be popular.

- Bite the bullet and approach people in game. Most times it takes just getting to know one person for things to take off. 

- Write up a detailed, yet concise post in the Making Connections forums. If you're looking for something, let others know. No one can read minds.

- Create an interesting Wiki of your character. Give people something to work with, including RP hooks.

- Find just a few LS who seem to be of interest and join them. And then chat in them.

- Go to events and emote, even if it's to yourself. 

- Find a FC, be confident and proactive within it, adding to their story. Don't be just another warm body, what's the point?

- Be friendly if someone talks to you about some OOC thing (quests, dungeons, questions). They may remember your name if they see you in town and be prompted to interact with you ICly as well.

- Be proactive in your game life. Don't be a whiner. No one wants to be around someone who complains about how hard life is when we're all in the same boat.

 

If you've done even half of the things listed above, I guarantee you'd be RP'ing a lot more than you are.  :thumbsup:

[Faye]

It's kind of interesting to see both sides of the fantasia/namechange/retcon/alt-hopping deal. Here we have OP saying she's done it to try to make connections and find something that works, and then we have Rosekitten talking about how others doing it made it difficult for her to make a meaningful connections with anyone on the server. And both, on their opposite ends of the spectrum, feel as if they've had problems making connections due to others' attitudes/behaviors. I think it really drives home the point that most people aren't really going out of their way to (intentionally) exclude or brush off others and may be just as shy/lonely/friendly/kind as the people who feel wronged by them. There are plenty of times all of us go ignored or unnoticed, but it's really not productive to immediately assume it be borne of any sort of meanness, judgement, elitism or ill will on the other person's part.

[Aya]

I had written a long post about my appreciation for Balmung, the RPC, and the RP community, but my web browser decided to trick me into deleting it.  So... I'll just say that I find the grass a lot greener.  A whole lot greener.  I wouldn't change the way things have gone for anything.  Its not perfect, but nothing in the real world is.

 

That's not to say that those who haven't enjoyed it are wrong, or that their experiences lack authority.  Only that, on the whole, I'm incredibly happy about our community. 

 

I don't want people reading the thread to think that everyone is unhappy with it

[Caspar]

I tend to play a lot of pretty misanthropic characters, some of whom are too antisocial (not asocial) to really coexist comfortably in normal society. That being said, just because my character doesn't get to know others well, doesn't mean that I have to be the same way. Being certain to put yourself out there OOCly is a good way to allow an otherwise shy character the chance to get to know a lot of people despite their outward demeanor. It's why I cringe at the usual suggestion on the forum to "avoid" playing less sociable characters. There's ways around this, we're writing stories together. Nothing happens without intent. Characters don't move on their own. If you want to play with someone else and you have a useful hook in mind to latch on to, talk to them.

[ArmachiA]

I absolutely agree that OOC connections is a big ol' part of it. Probably one of the biggest. Getting into LSs/FCs and being active (Not necessarily chatty, but present) is an easy way to break in where you want to break in.

 

Playing an antisocial character can be fun... IIIFFF you don't really mind it's going to take longer to make those IC connections. If it doesn't phase you that a lot of characters/players won't make the effort to break your characters icy exterior, then play one! If, however, the idea of not many people trying makes you frustrated, you're better off playing a different sort of character.

[Faye]

I tend to play a lot of pretty misanthropic characters, some of whom are too antisocial (not asocial) to really coexist comfortably in normal society. That being said, just because my character doesn't get to know others well, doesn't mean that I have to be the same way. Being certain to put yourself out there OOCly is a good way to allow an otherwise shy character the chance to get to know a lot of people despite their outward demeanor. It's why I cringe at the usual suggestion on the forum to "avoid" playing less sociable characters. There's ways around this, we're writing stories together. Nothing happens without intent. Characters don't move on their own. If you want to play with someone else and you have a useful hook in mind to latch on to, talk to them.

 

There are ways around it, and I definitely don't think people should avoid playing those character types in general. I usually only see the advice to "avoid" playing them come up when the player in question is frustrated and having difficulty finding meaningful role-play and connections. Not everyone is able to (or knows how to) work around these extra limitations they've given their character, and it's just another hurdle to climb for someone who is already feeling overwhelmed.

[Val]

I absolutely agree that OOC connections is a big ol' part of it. Probably one of the biggest. Getting into LSs/FCs and being active (Not necessarily chatty, but present) is an easy way to break in where you want to break in.

 

Playing an antisocial character can be fun... IIIFFF you don't really mind it's going to take longer to make those IC connections. If it doesn't phase you that a lot of characters/players won't make the effort to break your characters icy exterior, then play one! If, however, the idea of not many people trying makes you frustrated, you're better off playing a different sort of character.

 

Seconding that OOC connection is a major part, especially getting into Linkshells/FCs. Most of what I've observed is that if you emote out in the open you're likely only going to get people that are interested in banging your character. The only people I've seen just getting walk-ups tend to be female characters, and that's usually for the same reason. Even the few male walk-ups I've had have only been interested in trying to sleep with whatever character I'm on at the time, which is admittedly disheartening.

 

Most of it, of course, is because those people looking for that sort of thing don't tend to crowd linkshells that aren't catered to it, so they're the only ones standing around the open looking for things. Those that are either RP in their FC house almost exclusively or in unannounced areas for linkshell stuff. The result can be pretty disheartening, especially if you're actually looking for open world stuff. Sadly, I don't think this is going to be the game/community to foster it at the moment--if ever, with people breaking off to do things on their own. It's not a bad thing, of course. People are welcome to do whatever they wish. I can just see how it could turn away others.

[Delilah Scythewood]

Only that, on the whole, I'm incredibly happy about our community. 

 

I don't want people reading the thread to think that everyone is unhappy with it

 

Pretty much this on my end, too. I've known people like Aya, Faye, and less known members of the community for years on varying levels of acquaintanceship and friendship and more often then not? The ones that seem like they're in a clique are actually just shy, nervous, or content doing their own thing.

 

But it doesn't help make the moments where one does get overlooked any less painful even if it's unintentional.

[Mae]

*lurks in*

 

There's already been a lot of good suggestions regarding being persistent, constant, and networking OOCly, so I've nothing really significant to add to that.

 

What I do have to add might not seem to be the... most helpful or hopeful thing and may even, on the surface, reinforce the "clique" image newbies are seeing. But if you take what I'm about to say as a whole instead of piecemeal, it may help.

 

So... here you are. Brand new, looking to find your first RP session in the game, and you walk into one of the RP hot spots. For the sake of this, we're going to go with the Quicksand because everyone knows about it. As you look around, you see a bunch of silent figures standing around alone-ish on the edges of the room who might be AFK or maybe they're non-RP'ers who just stopped in those spots randomly, or a bunch of other reasons. Either way, you have come to the conclusion (rightful or not) that you're not getting RP from them, so you home in on the group seated around a table who are actively RPing, and you start to approach...

 

Wait.

 

Stop.

 

Don't.

 

Or, at least, stop and don't approach -yet-. Don't even send a /tell yet. Watch and OOCly eavesdrop until you get a reading on the conversation -- ten lines/entries is what I suggest you should aim for as a minimum. If the conversation seems lighthearted, open, or any other situation where, if this was Real Life, it wouldn't seem rude to invite yourself into the conversation, go ahead and approach. Or send your /tell now, if you're feeling nervous.

 

If the conversation, however, seems deep, involved, serious, or any other situation where, if this was Real Life, it would be rude to invite yourself in... don't. Just continue to spectate if there's currently no-one else to try (and if better prospects seem to come up elsewhere, by all means go and take them instead of sitting around), maybe toss out a solo emote to indicate that you are a fellow RPer if you feel the need, but don't become upset if they don't respond, or if they emote back that while they've acknowledged your presence ICly they've no inclination to inviting you to their conversation. Enjoy the show. Maybe after a while the conversation will ease up and the overall mood will shift to something more open and inviting, and that'll be the chance to move in and attempt to engage.

 

Or maybe they're being silent, because the conversation has gone to another chatmode, and you have nothing to work with. Toss out a solo emote of some sort or send someone a /tell, but again don't get upset if they don't respond or they indicate that they're not open to having others join in. Don't bother waiting on this group, just move on.

 

In Real Life, people go out to public places for various reasons.  Going into a restaurant and approaching/sitting down at a random table where a family, some friends, or business associates are meeting would be downright rude, whereas joining in on a conversation at the bar is typically acceptable. The same logic and courtesy should apply to in-game RP, and perhaps with a bit more sensitivity -- the game has a much smaller pool of spaces to RP in than an average Real Life town, so we have to share and sometimes make a space double-duty. One table in the Quicksand could end up being a sort of extension of the bar (especially if the bar area is already full), while another table is the more 'private' group, and the tables will switch purpose depending on day and group.

 

What this game does have in its favor over Real Life, though, is a much easier way to identify and contact other players even after they've left your immediate sight. Even if you've opted to not have named displayed on your screen normally, you can click on someone and get their names. If you see some people RPing and you liked what you saw but there's indications that your approach might be "unwelcome" at the time, write those names down. Keep an eye out for them and approach them later with a /tell along the lines of "Hey, I saw you RPing the other night and I was interested, but I didn't want to interrupt. Would you be interested in RPing together sometime?". The worst that would happen (beyond perhaps not getting a response at all, but that could happen for some valid reasons) is that you get informed that they're involved in a closed plot and they can't right now/in the near future. The second worst would be that you get told that it really wasn't that serious of a talk and that you could've jumped in. A bit of politeness, patience, respect for others, and striking up OOC conversations when people aren't busy can go a long way into getting you involved/connected with others than if you barge into a conversation where the reasonable IC and Real Life reaction (should they choose to acknowledge you) would be annoyance at the interruption/intrusion... which can easily feed into you feeling like you just got snubbed by a clique. 

 

And, if after waiting a while, nothing seems like a good prospect... go do something else for a bit. Walk away. Don't make a snarky exiting emote, statement, or /tells, cause people remember that. Just go do something else for a while and then come back and try again later, or another day -- the people who you're currently watching/waiting for are adhering to their own schedule, and that schedule is not compatible with your own right now. 

 

And always make the decision to walk away -before- you become frustrated/angry/upset. Getting that way only taints your future attempts, and feeds into the 'snubbed' feeling.

 

Another thing, if you're new and you feel like you keep throwing out hooks and no-one is biting... you might need to re-evaluate what it is that you're considering a hook. If you walk in and emote that you're taking a seat a distance away from anyone else and pull out a book/paperwork, or look like you're waiting for someone specific, or in general look -busy-, that can easily be interpreted as... well... you're busy and/or waiting for someone specific. You appear closed off. If I go to a cafe bakery for tea and a pastry and bring a book to read, I'm there to read and don't want to be interrupted. If I go to a cafe bakery for tea and a pastry, don't bring a book, and see someone else sitting there reading a book, I'm not going to bother them because I assume that, like me, they're there to read and wouldn't appreciate being interrupted.

 

 

TL;DR: When you go into a hotspot/event looking to make connections/find RP when you're new, take a few minutes to read the room first and then imagine that it's a Real Life restaurant. Aim for the 'bar' RPers, respect the 'sitting in a booth in the dining room' RPers. Make notes on who's RP you liked watching, and try to contact them at a later time when they're not overtly busy if they were one of the 'booth' RPers. And if prospects aren't currently looking good, go do something else for a while before you get frustrated.

 

*lurks away*

[Juromaro]

As someone who started on Balmung(back when you could make a character without waiting) I tried to get into the RP scene, I was quickly shunned...told the server was for 1.0 players. Not entirely sure if I just ran into a d-bag group but it killed my desire to RP so I created a new character on Gilgamesh.

 

This really sounds like an entirely isolated incident. I didn't touch 1.0 and I've played on Balmung actively since 2.0's launch. Not once has anyone told me this, nor have I seen anyone else saying they were told this. D: Sorry you had that happen!

 

 

Oh this was long ago, months before the NIN patch. I ended up making some friends on Gilgamesh namely Adolar Stone, but left the game for 720 some odd days, came back and my friends were no longer there and Gilgamesh turned into a more secluded RP scene(no open world RP that I could find) so I paid the transfer fee and moved to Balmung. Took me about 2 months of playing to make any friends but that was mainly cause I didn't put myself out there(was nervous) got more comfortable and found that I loved the community on Balmung, aside from a few "people".

 

For me it felt as if the 1.0 crowd that I ran into got drowned out during my time on Gilgamesh and while I'm not playing currently I'd advise the OP to keep trying and ignore that crowd should s/he come into contact with them....unless that's his/her type of crowd.

 

But I appreciate the concern none the less

[Renault Delumiere]

Just want to add my 2 cents on the topic.

 

I barely RP anymore, though it used to be the main thing I did in this game. I went to the same event (The Golden Gala event at the Ul'dah fountain place.)

 

My experience is kind of different, in that I had no trouble finding RP at all. The trick is to find other people like you (groups of 1 or 2 people, seemingly looking un-engaged in RP.) If you try to approach a large group which may already be 3-4 hours into RP, you will naturally find yourself having a harder time squeezing in.

[Nicholai]

See, unlike you, I actually have to approach people to let them know I exist. I've made all different types of characters over 20+, just trying to get people to notice me and accept me into their rp groups. I probably have spent over 100 dollars on fantasias and name changes alone. It's always different reasons: If you play a miqo'te you're a slut, if you play an Au Ra you're weeb trash. If you play an lalafell, you're not taken seriously. If you play a midlander, you're boring and unoriginal. These are the many conflicts I have that I've heard from others when I make my characters. I can't find that niche.

 

I wanted to address because there are some important things I'd like to point out to the contrary.

 

The idea that all Miqo'te are sluts, all Hyur are boring, all Lalafells aren't taken seriously is completely and utterly inaccurate. I've heard it said in jest, yes, but it's an aversion to the truth. If it were true, then I've been playing a Miqo'te ****boy and a boring Hyur for most of the time I've been playing this game. It sounds like you're just creating all the wrong reasons not to play what you like because, when you get down to it, there's a negative in any concept you'll play. The idea is not to avoid a negative. It's to find what YOU LIKE! And honestly, if you really wanna be a Miqo'te Slut, a boring Hyur, or a non-important Lalafell, then do it and own it!

 

Just the other night, I met one of the most simple and unoriginal concepts I'd ever heard of for a hyuran woman. At first glance, I, as a player, wouldn't find much interest in someone playing a simple, farmgirl, chocobo handler (and yes, that was it). However, the way they owned that concept and had fun with it -made- it interesting and original. Honestly? I wish I could've RPed with them longer, but, alas, there were some personal matters I had to address that night. You don't have to go out of your way to create intriguing, mysterious, abstract characters to find something you enjoy. Sometimes, in this case, less can be so much more.

 

The importance of RP is to have fun above anything else, and if it ceases to be fun, then perhaps it's time to take a step back, take a breather, reassess what you could do to make it fun again.

 

People don’t owe you jack shit. If you can’t find roleplay, it is your own damn mistake. If you don’t have the social skills to pull of such characters, just don’t roleplay said character. Find a more suitable character concept fitting with your real life skill set. If you can’t pull off the “Insert random character trope in here”, guess what? Don’t roleplay it. You will be all the happier for it.

 

But ultimately? Get your whiny entitled ass out there and make your character interesting to interact with.

 

Now for you in specific.

 

 

I also wanted to address this. You, honestly, should be ashamed of yourself. Criticism like this isn't productive, and it doesn't help anyone, least of all the OP. While you're not wrong (on some things anyway), the manner in which you've approached the OP -is- wrong and isn't how you get anyone to listen to your opinions, let alone take them to heart.

 

I'd be willing to wager you're probably one of those people who roll their eyes when you find out someone is suicidal, thinking they're just trying to get attention. It's a cry out for help, as is the OP. For you to automatically assume they're the one at fault here, when you don't know exactly what happened, and how it happened, makes you just as in the wrong, if not more so. You know what assuming makes (ASS U ME).

 

That being said, I disagree with some of what you mentioned. You don't need to base your character on what someone else might find interesting. You find, and surround yourself with, people who -find- -your- character interesting. Yes, it's hard to do sometimes, and, yes, you can't expect everyone to respond to your character. No, you're not entitled to RP, but on the other side of the coin, no one, and I mean -no one- should have to cater to someone else's interests just for the sake of being included in a group.

 

To the OP, I'm sorry you didn't have a fun time at the Gala, but it has been mentioned in many of the posted replies that were are a million reasons why it was likely never intentional. I perfectly agree with the idea of attending smaller events for the purpose of making connections with other RPers. I like them better, to be honest, because I'm not a big fan of the ocean of scrolling chat such large events create.

 

That being said, if you'd ever like a new connection, you're welcome to message me on Nicholai Eboncrest for some RP. I'd be happy to welcome more RPers into my list of RP partners. ^^

 

Edit: Also wanted to say that invitation goes out to anyone else wanting to RP with me and my characters as well!

[Caspar]

I wanted to address because there are some important things I'd like to point out to the contrary.

 

The idea that... all Lalafells aren't taken seriously is completely and utterly inaccurate.

Yo, do you have a Lalafell character? I'm just curious.

 

I wouldn't say it's totally true or totally false, mostly because the sample size of actual Lalafell players is so tiny as to make gauging a "common" reaction to them sort of pointless. Moreover blanket statements about the server in general struggle to stand upon their own two feet. But a lot of the complaints I've heard, and the disparity I've experienced between playing a non-Lalafell NPC character and my own, sample size and confirmation bias aside, seem to suggest that there's plenty of stigma to work against. I main this character, and I only avoid this shade because the people who play with me trust me and I've managed to make a good impression on others.

 

So yeah, it's nothing I haven't been able to overcome, but I'm also a very experienced RPer, and not everyone has that kind of confidence. I know I'm able to entertain others with my writing. I know the satisfied feeling when someone is happy they RP'd with me, and nothing pleases me more. All I want is to entertain, and I don't feel like a total failure if others aren't buying what I'm selling. From a certain point of view, I've got it easy. All I'm saying is do consider that not all of us are working from an even starting point, and preconceptions, as well as exclusionary play, are a real thing. Are there player cliques? Yes. In crowds and out crowds? Yes. Are they totally impermeable and unchanging? No. Are they always intentionally malicious? No. These things don't even account for the variables inherent in all the players involved; RP prospectors and those being approached always have their own biases and tastes. Understanding what steps are necessary to find RP requires context, I think. It can be frustrating to look at the situation as a whole rather than individual instances of failed walkup simply because it starts to feel like a worrying trend to a discouraged player. Even I sometimes feel burnt when someone just doesn't have time to play with me, despite the fact that I know, consciously at least, they're just busy.

 

I do agree that you should play what you find fun. It's simply that the concern over what you find fun not being interesting enough, or having a stigma against it, is real and should take serious consideration. It's a big part of why I really heavily advocate the OOC approach. It removes the variables of IC taste influencing whether a walkup succeeds or fails, and soothes the sting of snap judgment, like the whole race thing mentioned above.

[Edda]

I'd be willing to wager you're probably one of those people who roll their eyes when you find out someone is suicidal, thinking they're just trying to get attention. It's a cry out for help, as is the OP.

 

I understand the analogy you're going for here, but comparing crying about not finding RP to threatening suicide is absolutely asinine.

 

That being said, I disagree with some of what you mentioned. You don't need to base your character on what someone else might find interesting.

 

I'm pretty sure the person you're quoting wasn't implying they should tailor their character for other people? I don't think a single person in this thread has given the thumbs up on that one, dude. Think what they are trying to get across is that people should RP what they are good at (and humans tend to enjoy things they are good at) and comfortable doing.

[Evaleigh]

I recently did an experiment that was kind of along these lines.

 

Now I have an established Free Company full of some awesome people that engage strangers and work for more collaborative communities.  I am very grateful for my FC mates and how they make Eorzea a better place.. but I kept hearing things like this OP's pov where they can't get any RP, they get ignored, etc.

 

I made an alt, I levelled it up to a respectable level and I told nobody about it.  I tried to work organically the way I did when I first came to Balmung.  I started out in the Quicksand and then I'd attend RPC events to try and engage people or be approached.  What I discovered is the following:

 

- If you have a green leaf on your head you're very likely to get ignored.

 

- 90% of the time if someone puts on their RP tag and goes and sit alone in a corner you end up with 10 people sitting alone and nobody interacting.

 

- If you approach people directly you will get a decent contact about 3 or 4 times out of 10. This number goes up if you send them a /tell first asking to RP before you just walk up.

 

- Approaching a group that's RPing is VERY likely to be ignored.

 

- Approaching an FC to try and get involved in their RP is about as effective as cold walkups.  FCs by their very nature are cliquish.  I actually had a VERY negative experience with a walkup to an FC where I was OOCly chewed out because their RP was "closed" in spite being in a public setting and all their emotes being done in /em.

 

My conclusion is that we have a very toxic and insular community on Balmung.  Cliques form of tight-knit groups of people of like minds and similar RP styles probably due to bad experiences from people outside of those groups.  Growing an RP contact network takes a lot of time, energy and luck.  What is made worse is the fickle nature of people it's not uncommon to make a contact that you never talk to again.

 

The best luck I've had so far is to try and figure out my character's niche or drive and make it specific enough then find others who have similar qualities or drives.  There are certain setups and tropes that seem to get a lot of mobility as well.  The worst case scenario is using Party Finder or the RPC to advertise what you're looking for and go from there.

 

My heart seriously goes out for any new RPer or ones struggling to get established contacts.  Having character motivation and drive helps because too often I see people struggle but when they do make a contact they have an expectation of "being entertained" or included.  At the same time I've also seen it to where even when effort is made.. people ignore you.

 

I hope things improve.

[ArmachiA]

Toxic is a pretty harsh word, mate, and completely inaccurate. Just because something is difficult doesn't mean it's toxic. Let's bring up your points here:

 

~ Most people do avoid people with the leaf, because there are so many level one ERP alts it's hard to tell who's legit.

 

~ 90% of RPers are not initiators. In fact, they're a lot like the people who are getting frustrated about cliques! Shy, awkward, and waiting for someone to walk up to them. I took up the job of GM for my guild because of this fact - because if I didn't place people in a situation to interact they wouldn't interact. Initiators are RARE, even in real life.

 

~ 3 or 4 times out of 10 with strangers seems like really good odds? I'm not sure how that makes the community Toxic.

 

~ Approaching a group without asking first that's probably true, but you have to see it from this: if it's 4 or more people there probably in the middle of some furious typing to get out what they gotta get out. Trying to get a word in with any group can be difficult, and they could be in the middle of something and... just don't see it. One of the most common things I've noticed is that a stranger can affect the flow. If a stranger comes in, they can't expect all dialogue they were having to suddenly cease and then they suddenly start paying attention to said stranger. They have to find a good stopping point in the conversation tree in order to do that, which is why I recommend /tells.

 

~ Depends on the FC. But someone here said it best that just because they're at a bar doesn't mean it's okay to walk up to them. You wouldn't do that in real life if you say they were deep into convo and they could have been discussion something plot related. It was VERY rude to put you on blast, but it can be SUPER awkward to bring in a stranger if you're discussing the greater overall FC plot.

 

The thing is, people have to look at this from all sides and they just don't. I am a pretty big advocate of new people getting into rp, and can admit there are some issues, but lets not overdramatize.

[Virella]

 

 

I don't get this. I never got ignored. And I roleplay nationalistic jaded religious assholes who have little to no compassion for people they don't care about. Aye they get spat on every so often, especially my Ishgardian, and well deserved so even, but it is still RP? No one goes to ignore them? I really don't get it.

 

Personally I think what you've done is approach it the wrong way. At these 'huge' events, you are simply going to get lost in the chatspam; hence why whispering people beforehand is MORE succesful. Go to events like the Grindstone. You get paired up to RP with people. Go to the Sea Breeze Market. Yes you still have to approach merchants, but you will get RP out of it as well.

 

Pick your battles. Don't go to huge events like performance events and expect people to actively roleplay back, especially the main organisers (I think people forget how much goes on OOC while running these things often). The chat scroll is insane. People are not doing it on purpose. Go to things like the Grindstone were you are guaranteed to have someone to RP with. You will make connections from it. If you can't spar? Go as a healer, I think any sparring event always has need of healers. You will get roleplay out of this as well.

 

Or perhaps I just don't see it because I don't ignore people to begin with. I don't know, I never had this issue when I came on Balmung either and wasn't known at all. I simply gone out there and looked for people. There were some bumps in the road, but I made lasting friends IC and OOC by just... getting my ass out there.

 

And once more, I can promise people don't ignore you on purpose. It mostly just gets lost in the scroll, or they don't even have say and emote tab open at bigger events. I certainly don't. Luck is NOT a factor, and I will fight anyone who claims it is. Being social is a skill, in real life and in roleplay. If you lack the skill in real life, yes, you're going to have a hard time in roleplay, but that is a you problem, not a community issue.

 

But if you think change is needed? Be that person yourself to walk up to those shy wallflowers if you feel that obliged to care. Putting out a carpet so to speak is never a bad idea, I do it with the Resistance events as well. But I have no time nor desire to drag people out of a corner and make them walk over this carpet beyond social nights.

Funny thing is? With those social nights, I offer people publicly on every event notice that they can whisper me if they want to be dragged in if feel shy. You know how many PMs I've gotten when I've offered this out on posters and events announcements?

 

Zero.

 

So please don't go saying Balmung is oh so toxic, because I know more event organisers do these type of things. It is you just not picking your battles right.

[Evaleigh]

Toxic is a pretty harsh word, mate, and completely inaccurate. Just because something is difficult doesn't mean it's toxic. Let's bring up your points here:

 

The thing is, people have to look at this from all sides and they just don't. I am a pretty big advocate of new people getting into rp, and can admit there are some issues, but lets not overdramatize.

 

 

There's no need to get defensive over the semantics I'm not attacking an individual or even you for that matter.  I empathize with the OP.  I don't suffer for Roleplay, I have an established and wonderful Free Company and I adore and cherish its membership.  I even have people in my FC that actively engage those outside of our company.  They're definately part of the proactive influence in our RP world and I'm certain that there's a lot of other people on this RPC that are the same way.  Maril for example I know is -very- active and does a lot for the community as a whole.

 

You're correct saying that the community as a whole is toxic was unfair of me to say.  I still stand by my belief that there is a lot of very, very negative and hostile elements that are both off-putting and self-damning within the community.  The very sentiment I've seen of 

 

- You don't owe anyone roleplay

- If you just try you'll get RP, it worked for me so it'll work for you

- Knee-jerk criticism as to why someone is doing it wrong.

 

It seems like every time there's criticism there's this defensiveness that rises up to try and attack the person who is having a rough time.  That's what I find to be toxic.

 

Even reading through this thread I've seen the "advice" given and that was part of my experiment I wanted to see if the advice I was given actually works.  That is part of what I'm trying to share and maybe I need to repeat the experiment but telling me "why what you're doing is wrong" isn't actually that helpful, it's combative and furthers my point (and to a degree I think the OP's point) that our community is stand-offish and difficult to break into for someone coming in new.

 

---

 

To Virella's advice..

 

During my experiment I didn't go to "huge" events.  They're not my style in general the events I attended usually had at most 20 people at them so the scroll was never unbearable and unlike a true green RPer I've got a lot of experience under my belt for how to handle RPing in crowds or to make more niche smaller groups when needed.

 

I'm not counting events that were like the Roses or Kiss performance events where you're more or less watching RP instead of participating or the huge events like the Grindstone where, no offense, it's too orchestrated to be able to establish any sort of contact of substance unless you're part of the audience.  Please do not take this as an attack on the Grindstone, I appreciate those who organize such an undertaking and know it's very popular..  

 

I empathize with the new adventurer, the green roleplayer and instead of just wanting to shove the advice of someone who is established I wanted to see what their perspective was.  It's a lot harder now than I remember it being when I started on Balmung but then again even the Quicksand has changed.  There seems to be a lot more jaded rpers.

 

I agree though Virella, a lot of it is the character you play.  This point has been made earlier in this thread.. and I can attest to it across my alts as well.

 

A fun-loving outgoing character that initiates walkups gets RP a lot easier and faster than a cold, reclusive loner.  

 

 

Question Has anyone ever used Party Finder to find RP contacts?  Did that work for you?