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Primals in RP?


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No, I'm not necessarily talking about becoming a primal or summoning one yourself (although they could be valid, depending on the FC) ICly, but I'm talking about the ones summoned by say.... the Ixal, the Kobolds, and the Ananta for example!

 

Can Primals be validly fought in an IC scenario? Considering the beast tribes seem to be able to summon them with relative ease (given prayers and a hefty supply of crystals), is it reasonable to say a character could have ICly clashed with one as part of a plotline?

 

Likewise, is tempering (not necessarily Ifrit's manner though) a possibility?

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No, I'm not necessarily talking about becoming a primal or summoning one yourself (although they could be valid, depending on the FC) ICly, but I'm talking about the ones summoned by say.... the Ixal, the Kobolds, and the Ananta for example!

 

Can Primals be validly fought in an IC scenario? Considering the beast tribes seem to be able to summon them with relative ease (given prayers and a hefty supply of crystals), is it reasonable to say a character could have ICly clashed with one as part of a plotline?

 

Likewise, is tempering (not necessarily Ifrit's manner though) a possibility?

 

Disclaimer: Information may be misremembered or misinterpreted.

 

Yes, they could be fought by normal people, though generally with heavy/significant losses. As in, people would have to throw an army at the primal and hope for the best. The Garleans might have the firepower to put down a lesser primal, though I'm unsure of that.

 

Of the primals, only Ifrit and Leviathan actively temper members of the Five Races (tempering and drowning respectively). Titan generally doesn't temper. Garuda attempts it as an act of desperation when the WoL first faces her. Ramuh has tempered the majority of the sylphs, though without ill intent. I don't think it's stated if the Mogglesguard, Gnath, and Vundu were tempered. Zantetsuken tempers whoever picks it up and turns them into Odin. Of the Warring Triad (who were all killed by the WoL and lack the worship to be brought back), Zurvan was noted to temper Garleans that were simply in its presence. Can't speak for the SB primals.

 

For those without the Echo, tempering is not only a possibility, but almost a certainty in the case of Ifrit and Leviathan. Likely Garuda too.

 

Honestly, I think only the WoL and his cadre of elite adventurers have a sufficient power level to take on primals with relative ease. For everyone else, they'd have to be part of a fairly large mercenary company/similar organisation, and even then most of them are probably going to end up as casualties. Plus if a single person is able to fight and defeat a primal (like the WoL did), the Scions and the GCs are going to swoop down on them and snatch them up quick (like what happened with the WoL).

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So, if I'm remembering the story correctly, the Company of Heroes brought down Titan the time before the WoL gets involved. During that battle, they lost scores of their fellows because Titan was both killing and Tempering everything in sight.

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Depends on how it's handled?

 

Primals are a reoccurring threat, so there is a demand/a sense of urgency to handle them whenever they crop up, and it hasn't been unheard of for groups of otherwise regular mercenaries to take down Primals before (The Company of Heroes).

 

The game also addresses that the Warrior of Light should bring other people along for some of the Primal fights. I can't recall which ones specifically, but I do remember several instances of Alphinaud or another NPC suggesting you form a party of your most trusted confidants before engaging with a Primal. I'm guessing in the 'canon' of the single player game, those other party members may be suggested to be regular adventurers.

 

There's no real reason why regular mercenaries can't/wouldn't take up arms against a Primal, to be honest, but I wouldn't make it a regular plot point or have your FC advertising itself by saying "YEAH, we go PRIMAL HUNTING!"

 

Regular ol' joes going out to kill Primals and coming back to talk about it is a feasible, but rare instance.

 

If you have a group of characters who trust each other and have planned out some kind of strategy for taking down a Primal, and the players who participate are ready and willing to take losses if it comes to that, sure.

 

If not, or if you want to make it a regular thing, maybe stick to hunting notorious monsters or voidsent or something.

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Hmm as mentioned above, you can take up arms against them but keep in mind we aren't WoLs and will struggle against them. Personally for my company we treat them as VERY big threats that we try not to engage. We had a mission to guard some merchant ships but we were besieged by Leviathan and our whole goal was just to slow it down with cannon fire and escape.

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I actually have a bit of a question about how one might be able to deal with Primals if you have the Echo... but it's based off a cutscene in Stormblood and thus is kinda spoilery. However, if it's not just a "WoL thing" and is indeed an aspect of the Echo... there may be another direction to take.

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"With relative ease".

 

Which is still not trivial and doesn't happen everyday. It happens, and the companies keep an eye on them and the crystal market (cf Ashcrown Consortium among others, but those have mostly ceased since 1.0 when the Beast Tribe started to actively summon instead of trading their crystals).

 

When there was no WoL, the Grand Companies used to send huge companies of mercenaries like the Company of Heroes to the meatgrinder, and most of them died or were tempered (so died anyway, killed by their kin) each single time.

 

When the WoL shows up, guess who's asked to deal with those threats every time? Not companies of heroes. The WoL.

 

This is mostly a personal interpretation, but I really, really doubt a lot of other people face primals on a regular basis these days.

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And, as I've said before in other discussions on this topic, people seem to forget that tempering is not the only danger with primals. Even in their "lesser forms" they are still beasts in battle. Flinging spells, claws, building sized fists, etc. everywhere.

 

So even if you somehow take tempering (or whatever it would be called for the primal in question) out of the equation, you'll still have a hell of a fight on your hands.

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When the WoL shows up' date=' guess who's asked to deal with those threats every time? Not companies of heroes. The WoL.[/quote']

 

WoL is a busy bee, though. And the Grand Companies have already known since Carteneau that they can't rely on them always being there. Beast tribes will summon their primals when they have the crystals to do so, regardless of the WoL's current location, and the Grand Companies must have contingency plans for what to do if one is summoned while the WoL is engaged in something more imminently dangerous - a more aggressive or powerful primal elsewhere being one of these potential matters.

 

My personal headcanon is that the Scions trains and keeps a garrison of other Echo-users, sub-WoL level but still immune to tempering, and sends them against primals of an appropriate power level. So if the WoL is tangled up dealing with, say, an EX primal, or a new primal, then a group of lesser Scions might be sent instead to deal with the HM Ifrit that popped up at the same time.

 

But even then... there was that period of time between 2.55 and 3.X when the Grand Companies weren't officially able to rely on the disgraced Scions for anything...

and now a period of time where the WoL is essentially whereabouts-unknown while they travel far and wide... what happens if a primal is summoned now?

If a Primal were to be summoned under such circumstances, are the Grand Companies to wait around for their hero(es) in shining armour to return, while countless civilians are injured, killed, or tempered? Or are they going to fall back on other emergency procedures which place the burden of casualty onto actual troops who signed up to fight for their country?

 

None of it's ideal, but I think if it were, then the things wouldn't really be a threat...

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I'm curious about this question as well.

 

One of my FC mates brought up that there are now Summoner NPCs speckled into the Grand Companies, which implies that every GC NPC Summoner has encountered a Primal in some manner and survived.

 

Does this impact the implied rarity of your average soldier (and, by extension, adventurer) being able to take down one or more Primals? All evidence up to this point indicates that an average adventurer (or soldier) would be very lucky to survive against a Primal, but I'm wondering if having these new NPC Summoners changes things.

 

(I don't think it's a spoiler to comment on random combat NPCs, but if it is I'd be happy to use a tag.)

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I don't think there is any mention of a primal having been summoned during the WoL timeline that has been dealt with by someone else than the WoL. 

 

It's a possibility, but not a necessity.

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I don't think there is any mention of a primal having been summoned during the WoL timeline that has been dealt with by someone else than the WoL. 

 

It's a possibility, but not a necessity.

 

There was at least one that got dealt with by the antagonist in the patches of heavenward.  

Though I guess that is technically the same thing?

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I'm curious about this question as well.

 

One of my FC mates brought up that there are now Summoner NPCs speckled into the Grand Companies, which implies that every GC NPC Summoner has encountered a Primal in some manner and survived.

 

Does this impact the implied rarity of your average soldier (and, by extension, adventurer) being able to take down one or more Primals? All evidence up to this point indicates that an average adventurer (or soldier) would be very lucky to survive against a Primal, but I'm wondering if having these new NPC Summoners changes things.

 

(I don't think it's a spoiler to comment on random combat NPCs, but if it is I'd be happy to use a tag.)

 

So here is the response to this. Since it does contain spoilers to the SB SMN quests I'm sticking it in a spoiler tag.

 

 

 

So during the Stormblood SMN quest line you learn that the Flame Captain who made appearances previously in the SMN quests has been training summoners. These summoners are among the very few survivors of those in the Flames who have fought Ifrit previously and have the aetheric aptitude for summoning. It still indicates that it is a very very very big deal to have survived that ordeal. In addition to that they are given soulstones that are found by Saint Coinach's Find. One can reasonably assume that the other Grand Companies are doing this as well with their members who have survived Titan, Levi, and Garuda respectively.

 

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I'm curious about this question as well.

 

One of my FC mates brought up that there are now Summoner NPCs speckled into the Grand Companies, which implies that every GC NPC Summoner has encountered a Primal in some manner and survived.

 

Does this impact the implied rarity of your average soldier (and, by extension, adventurer) being able to take down one or more Primals? All evidence up to this point indicates that an average adventurer (or soldier) would be very lucky to survive against a Primal, but I'm wondering if having these new NPC Summoners changes things.

 

(I don't think it's a spoiler to comment on random combat NPCs, but if it is I'd be happy to use a tag.)

 

So here is the response to this. Since it does contain spoilers to the SB SMN quests I'm sticking it in a spoiler tag.

 

 

 

So during the Stormblood SMN quest line you learn that the Flame Captain who made appearances previously in the SMN quests has been training summoners. These summoners are among the very few survivors of those in the Flames who have fought Ifrit previously and have the aetheric aptitude for summoning. It still indicates that it is a very very very big deal to have survived that ordeal. In addition to that they are given soulstones that are found by Saint Coinach's Find. One can reasonably assume that the other Grand Companies are doing this as well with their members who have survived Titan, Levi, and Garuda respectively.

 

 

Thank you for this response (and apologies for my late reply.)

 

I run a comparatively "low powered" LS, with a premise that's akin to "ordinary people overcoming extraordinary circumstances," so I wanted to take a closer look at this to ensure that the road to becoming a Summoner was still fairly extraordinary/rare/lucky/WoL-esque. I'll keep this thread in mind in our upcoming post-Stormblood deliberations!

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I'm curious about this question as well.

 

One of my FC mates brought up that there are now Summoner NPCs speckled into the Grand Companies, which implies that every GC NPC Summoner has encountered a Primal in some manner and survived.

 

Does this impact the implied rarity of your average soldier (and, by extension, adventurer) being able to take down one or more Primals? All evidence up to this point indicates that an average adventurer (or soldier) would be very lucky to survive against a Primal, but I'm wondering if having these new NPC Summoners changes things.

 

(I don't think it's a spoiler to comment on random combat NPCs, but if it is I'd be happy to use a tag.)

 

So here is the response to this. Since it does contain spoilers to the SB SMN quests I'm sticking it in a spoiler tag.

 

 

 

So during the Stormblood SMN quest line you learn that the Flame Captain who made appearances previously in the SMN quests has been training summoners. These summoners are among the very few survivors of those in the Flames who have fought Ifrit previously and have the aetheric aptitude for summoning. It still indicates that it is a very very very big deal to have survived that ordeal. In addition to that they are given soulstones that are found by Saint Coinach's Find. One can reasonably assume that the other Grand Companies are doing this as well with their members who have survived Titan, Levi, and Garuda respectively.

 

 

 

Thank you for this response (and apologies for my late reply.)

 

I run a comparatively "low powered" LS, with a premise that's akin to "ordinary people overcoming extraordinary circumstances," so I wanted to take a closer look at this to ensure that the road to becoming a Summoner was still fairly extraordinary/rare/lucky/WoL-esque. I'll keep this thread in mind in our upcoming post-Stormblood deliberations!

 

 

I actually spoke about this very thing in a post about lore explored personal stories. Since the emergence of summoners as a job in the game, and the very beginnings of understanding primals, I sought out a loophole to allow my character to take up this job ICly. The above loophole that has been mentioned, where each City-state sends forces out to dispatch primals as they crop up over time, is the one I used myself, and one which is mentioned directly in the Ul'dah storeline dealing with Ifrit.

 

Jump to current expansion, we have that story that I used for my character, directly validated by the summoner MSQ. What I found to be the rarer thing, was not the survival of members necessarily, but rather the proper aetheric ability in those survivors making them rarer. Which was fine for my character, as he was a Paladin who was sent afield to help against Ifrit and so he gained the ability of a summoner.

 

The harder part of playing a summoner during the earlier community? When one managed to work out a story, one had to convince others that it was plausible, and after that, one had to reign in their own abilities and not be overpowered with them. Having all the summons doesn't make a lot of sense, because of the amount of ability and battle one would have to see to accomplish that or the number of ways you would need to figure out to work towards that would be a little ridiculous unless you put a lot of time into it. Having bahamut isn't out of the question, but is too OP imo, and of course certain primals aren't available period which requires an extra bit of imagination on everyone's part to make work.

 

Is being a summoner hard because of MSQ? I would venture in my experience: not really. Is it being a summoner made harder because there are a lot of people who either don't accept the job well in a low powered world, or RPers who can't handle reigning in their own power believable? Yes, much more so.

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I actually spoke about this very thing in a post about lore explored personal stories. Since the emergence of summoners as a job in the game, and the very beginnings of understanding primals, I sought out a loophole to allow my character to take up this job ICly. The above loophole that has been mentioned, where each City-state sends forces out to dispatch primals as they crop up over time, is the one I used myself, and one which is mentioned directly in the Ul'dah storeline dealing with Ifrit.

 

Jump to current expansion, we have that story that I used for my character, directly validated by the summoner MSQ. What I found to be the rarer thing, was not the survival of members necessarily, but rather the proper aetheric ability in those survivors making them rarer. Which was fine for my character, as he was a Paladin who was sent afield to help against Ifrit and so he gained the ability of a summoner.

 

The harder part of playing a summoner during the earlier community? When one managed to work out a story, one had to convince others that it was plausible, and after that, one had to reign in their own abilities and not be overpowered with them. Having all the summons doesn't make a lot of sense, because of the amount of ability and battle one would have to see to accomplish that or the number of ways you would need to figure out to work towards that would be a little ridiculous unless you put a lot of time into it. Having bahamut isn't out of the question, but is too OP imo, and of course certain primals aren't available period which requires an extra bit of imagination on everyone's part to make work.

 

Is being a summoner hard because of MSQ? I would venture in my experience: not really. Is it being a summoner made harder because there are a lot of people who either don't accept the job well in a low powered world, or RPers who can't handle reigning in their own power believable? Yes, much more so.

 

It's interesting to hear about the experiences of someone who's played an IC Summoner, for reals. I, myself, have no issue with people theoretically being lucky enough to summon one Egi, as you say. It's about on par with what we're shown in 4.0, so not impossible.

 

The reason I keep poking this thread, however, is because, as a LS leader, I need to take the temperature and feelings of 40+ people into consideration on the matter. I think your last paragraph really hit the nail on the head, to be honest. My ultimate goal is the comfort of the people in my guild: both on the side of those who find their immersion bent or broken by the presence of someone who can summon a mini Ifrit, AND the side of those who want to play an IC Summoner without feeling like others are avoiding/ignoring them based on their character's IC job class. It's a very tricky line to walk with many of the advanced job classes, with Summoners being around the top of the list in terms of how people perceive characters with those abilities.

 

Again, I personally agree that summoning one Egi for an average-ish adventurer type is plausible with the right backstory. But if the general consensus sways a different direction, I just have to do what's best for the comfort of my existing LS members. Your insight is interesting though, and it sounds like you haven't had -too- much trouble making connections, most likely due to the restraint and responsible considerations you've taken with your character's path to becoming one (which is good!)

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I guess I would have to skim through all the precise quotes about the GCs sending regularly their mean to the slaughter to go fight primals that would crop up here and there on a regular basis...

 

I got the exact opposite vibes from the story. We get it mentionned several times for the Company of Heroes, that used to face a few primals during the time where the WoL wasn't a thing and slaying eikons. 

 

Beats tribes start summoning primals during the 1.0 MSQ and the Ashcrown Consortium takes the brunt of it, where their relations were pretty cordial and business like before (they didn't summon primals before).

 

It takes gargantuan amounts of crystals to summon primals, which isn't a thing that can occur on a regular basis. 

 

From the feeling I got when the Company of Heroes tells about their past deeds, Titan and Leviathan got summoned once/twice maybe?

 

It had been long years (or more) when a primal had to be faced by Limsa when they tell the story. This is such a catastrophe that it sticks in memories for decades.

 

Then, a few more cases happen during ARR, HW, etc, where the WoL is basically there to deal with them.

 

In short, unless I find a specific lore burb/quote I missed (very possible!), I don't believe that besides what the story portrays, there is summoning of primals everywhere on a regular basis.

 

Tristan from the SMN storyline is an interesting case though. If I remember correctly that guy was exposed to primal energies not because he was part of a company fighting them, but due to a drama that got his brother. Fighting primals is far from being the only way to become a SMN.

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I guess I would have to skim through all the precise quotes about the GCs sending regularly their mean to the slaughter to go fight primals that would crop up here and there on a regular basis...

 

I got the exact opposite vibes from the story. We get it mentionned several times for the Company of Heroes, that used to face a few primals during the time where the WoL wasn't a thing and slaying eikons. 

 

Beats tribes start summoning primals during the 1.0 MSQ and the Ashcrown Consortium takes the brunt of it, where their relations were pretty cordial and business like before (they didn't summon primals before).

 

It takes gargantuan amounts of crystals to summon primals, which isn't a thing that can occur on a regular basis. 

 

From the feeling I got when the Company of Heroes tells about their past deeds, Titan and Leviathan got summoned once/twice maybe?

 

It had been long years (or more) when a primal had to be faced by Limsa when they tell the story. This is such a catastrophe that it sticks in memories for decades.

 

Then, a few more cases happen during ARR, HW, etc, where the WoL is basically there to deal with them.

 

In short, unless I find a specific lore burb/quote I missed (very possible!), I don't believe that besides what the story portrays, there is summoning of primals everywhere on a regular basis.

 

Tristan from the SMN storyline is an interesting case though. If I remember correctly that guy was exposed to primal energies not because he was part of a company fighting them, but due to a drama that got his brother. Fighting primals is far from being the only way to become a SMN.

 

You bring up some interesting points! But in Tristan's case, wasn't he able to become a Summoner via Ascian direction/tampering? I could be misremembering, but I thought there was some otherworldly being setting those gears into motion.

 

Another thing I've noticed regarding Primals is the lore found within the EX Primal quests. Based on what those quests say, the Primals that exist today are exponentially more powerful than pre-WoL Primals. The quests make a big deal about how every time the Primals are killed, the beastmen summon an even stronger iteration in response. So it implies that each Primal slaying actually harms the overall good, since each subsequent felling prompts the beastmen to summon an even stronger entity next time, ad infinitum.

 

So does this imply that the Primals who exist today are much, much, much stronger than the ones the Company of Heroes faced before, since the beastmen grow wiser and more desperate/zealous with each iteration?

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And a lot more crystals involved. Remember, Gilgamesh was able to summon a Primal version of his little buddy with just a crate of crystals and wanting his friend a whole lot.

 

I suppose it makes sense they're summoning progressively stronger versions to some degree too, you know? That's your god the WoL is beating up. Are you going to believe your god is weaker than some mortal being or that you just didn't provide enough offering to summon them in their "true form"? Add in tempering to add to that zealousness and, well... it just keeps going.

 

The only limiting factors, I suppose, are how much aether (via crystals or other means - like Nidhogg's eyes) you can attain and how many followers you can gather.

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I guess I would have to skim through all the precise quotes about the GCs sending regularly their mean to the slaughter to go fight primals that would crop up here and there on a regular basis...

 

I got the exact opposite vibes from the story. We get it mentionned several times for the Company of Heroes, that used to face a few primals during the time where the WoL wasn't a thing and slaying eikons. 

 

Beats tribes start summoning primals during the 1.0 MSQ and the Ashcrown Consortium takes the brunt of it, where their relations were pretty cordial and business like before (they didn't summon primals before).

 

It takes gargantuan amounts of crystals to summon primals, which isn't a thing that can occur on a regular basis. 

 

From the feeling I got when the Company of Heroes tells about their past deeds, Titan and Leviathan got summoned once/twice maybe?

 

It had been long years (or more) when a primal had to be faced by Limsa when they tell the story. This is such a catastrophe that it sticks in memories for decades.

 

Then, a few more cases happen during ARR, HW, etc, where the WoL is basically there to deal with them.

 

In short, unless I find a specific lore burb/quote I missed (very possible!), I don't believe that besides what the story portrays, there is summoning of primals everywhere on a regular basis.

 

Tristan from the SMN storyline is an interesting case though. If I remember correctly that guy was exposed to primal energies not because he was part of a company fighting them, but due to a drama that got his brother. Fighting primals is far from being the only way to become a SMN.

 

The Immortal Flames are the only company that send out primal parties with any regularity. Ifrit is summoned constantly because of how brainwashed the Amalj'aa are compared to other tribes. They even have a plaque for people who succeeded. I'd also advise everyone in the thread to do the 60-70 SMN questline in regards to this.

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I feel as though I'm late to this discussion but iirc, wasn't Leviathan a threat prior at some point that a certain beard of mist variety had to battle against? Something about him fighting the borders of Limsa but in WoL's time, being too smart to fall for that trick again.

 

We also need to keep in mind of the difference of Elder primals between just regular primals. Odin's tempering being unique is of course one example but then there's also cases such as...

 

I recently finished this but Nael Van Darnus was supposedly tempered by Bahamut's will or under his manipulation. Then at some point after her defeat did Bahamut relinquish his possession over her as she was bound to die. Just before, her mind came of clarity and was able to speak of her own volition again(until struck by Grandpappy of light Louisoix). Which also Louisoix became tempered for a short time after he became "The Phoenix", I guess he himself was the primal. I'm still a bit unclear on this but I believe Bahamut controlled his will/aether and essentially all of the prayers and combined hope that created the Phoenix up until it was defeated in it's corporeal form.

 

 

 

I mention all this, mostly because most primals seem to temper and that's that... game over. Otherwise in some special cases, it seems like killing the primal or the person tempered would relinquish their possession.

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I feel as though I'm late to this discussion but iirc, wasn't Leviathan a threat prior at some point that a certain beard of mist variety had to battle against? Something about him fighting the borders of Limsa but in WoL's time, being too smart to fall for that trick again.

 

If I remember correctly it was the Company of Heroes luring him into a cove or something so they could fight him that he wouldn't fall for again. The Mistbeard thing was him tying two boats together to haul in his plunder and we borrowed that idea to haul a bunch of corrupted crystals into the ocean to fight him.

 

I mention all this, mostly because most primals seem to temper and that's that... game over. Otherwise in some special cases, it seems like killing the primal or the person tempered would relinquish their possession.

 

But really this was the reason I commented because in Stormblood...

 

 

 

...it really looked like Lakshmi tried to temper us and our friends in one of the cut scenes and the Qalyana in the room got hit by it. I thought that meant we'd have to kill the poor chieftainess and some of her people after she'd just lost her daughter. After you beat Lakshmi however the chieftainess seems to have full control of her mind.

 

 

 

Contrast this to after we beat Ifrit where I'm pretty sure an NPC tell us that all the people who got tempered will have to be put down because there's no cure for it. There's also the little Kobold in 3.4 who was suspected to be irreversibly tempered when he didn't talk.

 

There really might be some inconsistency but I can't be sure.

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WEW *snip*

All of that area with Leviathan is such a blur to me now x.x, that sounds right now that you bring it up though.

 

As for SB...

I thought the chieftaness was just in distraught of her daughter and firmly believed in the primal she summoned in her fury. Not really tempered by her or anything, then I have to ask who are the two we kill in the start of the fight? Or do we just relinquish their minds from her "dreams"? Perhaps Lakshmi is just another special case of giving people dreams rather than tempering?... If she's not, then I have to ask about the still tempered Sylphs we find in the shroud and why they're still tempered if Ramuh is okay with the WoL now and understands their plight isn't to harm them or the forest. Why not release their minds then? I'm under the impression that Lakshmi was more self righteous and didn't need to temper because she could already be sustained off the Qalyana's hopes and their vast amount of crystals stocked up. Tbh, Lakshmi was a bit of a blur to me too because of how shoe-horned in she felt in the story to me...

 

 

 

As for the Kobold... he did speak though, and I think someone mentioned that Titan doesn't temper. Titan's born of fear and lack of strength after all, but that whole area of 3.4 was meant to show how powerful a ton of crystals and just one person's will is. That was why Titan speaks through his words and etc but after a long while after, he finally spoke back to Y'shtola confirming that he'll be strong. He was just in a complete wreck of watching his parents become... "charcoal for the fire" iirc?Q.Q... If you're referring to that Kobold I mean, otherwise I'm not sure.

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As for SB...

I thought the chieftaness was just in distraught of her daughter and firmly believed in the primal she summoned in her fury. Not really tempered by her or anything, then I have to ask who are the two we kill in the start of the fight? Or do we just relinquish their minds from her "dreams"? Perhaps Lakshmi is just another special case of giving people dreams rather than tempering?... If she's not, then I have to ask about the still tempered Sylphs we find in the shroud and why they're still tempered if Ramuh is okay with the WoL now and understands their plight isn't to harm them or the forest. Why not release their minds then? I'm under the impression that Lakshmi was more self righteous and didn't need to temper because she could already be sustained off the Qalyana's hopes and their vast amount of crystals stocked up. Tbh, Lakshmi was a bit of a blur to me too because of how shoe-horned in she felt in the story to me...

 

 

 

As for the Kobold... he did speak though, and I think someone mentioned that Titan doesn't temper. Titan's born of fear and lack of strength after all, but that whole area of 3.4 was meant to show how powerful a ton of crystals and just one person's will is. That was why Titan speaks through his words and etc but after a long while after, he finally spoke back to Y'shtola confirming that he'll be strong. He was just in a complete wreck of watching his parents become... "charcoal for the fire" iirc?Q.Q... If you're referring to that Kobold I mean, otherwise I'm not sure.

 

 

 

See that's why I'm not really sure. She shoots firey blue orbs at people, then shoots out a wave of blue fire, the WoL blocks it from hitting their friends, but the Qalyana in the room look hit/affected by it. Then they silently slink after her when she leaves the room. The opening cut scene for Lakshmi's fight clearly shows her tempering two Qalyana by shooting the same firey blue orbs at them. I'm not really sure if there's a disconnect between the cut scenes. The only times I can think of that Lakshmi uses blue particle effects in her fight is the puddles she drops on the healers and the vril bubbles the description of which I think imply make her think we're her 'dreamers'. Otherwise I think her effects/attack are gold and pink.

 

I think the purpose of Lakshmi's part of the story was to further Fordola and show us Alisaie's resolve but yeah it kind of seemed like they were just trying to cram another primal in. I kind of like people with scales and tails though so I was pretty hooked regardless. :P

 

 

 

Yeah, that Kobold. Ba Gu I think? He did talk eventually but before that there was the big scare when the Maelstrom officer told Alisaie they'd have to put him down if it turned out he was tempered.

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As for SB...

I thought the chieftaness was just in distraught of her daughter and firmly believed in the primal she summoned in her fury. Not really tempered by her or anything, then I have to ask who are the two we kill in the start of the fight? Or do we just relinquish their minds from her "dreams"? Perhaps Lakshmi is just another special case of giving people dreams rather than tempering?...  If she's not, then I have to ask about the still tempered Sylphs we find in the shroud and why they're still tempered if Ramuh is okay with the WoL now and understands their plight isn't to harm them or the forest. Why not release their minds then? I'm under the impression that Lakshmi was more self righteous and didn't need to temper because she could already be sustained off the Qalyana's hopes and their vast amount of crystals stocked up. Tbh, Lakshmi was a bit of a blur to me too because of how shoe-horned in she felt in the story to me...

 

 

 

As for the Kobold... he did speak though, and I think someone mentioned that Titan doesn't temper. Titan's born of fear and lack of strength after all, but that whole area of 3.4 was meant to show how powerful a ton of crystals and just one person's will is. That was why Titan speaks through his words and etc but after a long while after, he finally spoke back to Y'shtola confirming that he'll be strong. He was just in a complete wreck of watching his parents become... "charcoal for the fire" iirc?Q.Q... If you're referring to that Kobold I mean, otherwise I'm not sure.

 

 

 

See that's why I'm not really sure. She shoots firey blue orbs at people, then shoots out a wave of blue fire, the WoL blocks it from hitting their friends, but the Qalyana in the room look hit/affected by it. Then they silently slink after her when she leaves the room. The opening cut scene for Lakshmi's fight clearly shows her tempering two Qalyana by shooting the same firey blue orbs at them. I'm not really sure if there's a disconnect between the cut scenes. The only times I can think of that Lakshmi uses blue particle effects in her fight is the puddles she drops on the healers and the vril bubbles the description of which I think imply make her think we're her 'dreamers'. Otherwise I think her effects/attack are gold and pink.

 

I think the purpose of Lakshmi's part of the story was to further Fordola and show us Alisaie's resolve but yeah it kind of seemed like they were just trying to cram another primal in. I kind of like people with scales and tails though so I was pretty hooked regardless. :P

 

 

 

Yeah, that Kobold. Ba Gu I think? He did talk eventually but before that there was the big scare when the Maelstrom officer told Alisaie they'd have to put him down if it turned out he was tempered.

Idk honestly xD, but I can't argue that I love the new tribes :P.

 

I think it's just because we all assumed that was what was wrong with him for not eating/sleeping/talking/etc. Also I remembered that wrong, it was Alisae I think, not Y'shtola lol. That still really leaves us wondering about the qualities of tempering though x.x.

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