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discussion [SPOILERS] Stormblood MSQ + Story

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Also, I think the entire narrative around Lyse would have flowed way better if they had just left Yda as Yda and let Minfilia be the lead character.

 

To me, what Lyse was really missing was more shots of her interacting with other people from Gyr Abania. Leading them, interacting with them, having them have reasons to actually ... want to follow her? There's more of them who seem to look up to the WoL than really show any sort of that for her.

 

It feels like the writing treated her with kid gloves. I mean, Alisae had a stronger learning-to-deal-with-leadership moment when she doesn't know if Alphinaud is alive or dead and gets that 'yeah I know your brother is missing but we need you to step up right now' spiel. Lyse had a couple spots here or there (the one in the Ruby Sea towards the end where she has a monologue about her own naivete and then sorta waves her hands at you saying she doesn't want to wallow in it or whatever could've gone somewhere, but it never did), but overall she's up on a pedestal and not really allowed to learn or interact or really feel anything the mortals are feeling.

 

She was likeable to me, and I enjoyed her, but every time she started to go somewhere it's like she got pulled back so someone else could take the spotlight. So in the end she kinda stayed where she's always been as the lighthearted backup to the srs stuff.

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I'm glad Zenos was just a psycho, instead of being another motive behind it.

 

I agree Yotsuyu motivation was awful. Sure she was treated like shit, but doesn't justify her actions. I could have understood it if she just wanted revenge on her family, but she just continued.

 

Fordola is amazing as well though. I love how brainwashed she is by the Garleans.

 

All in all, I sort of like the villains? They didn't get redeemed so far after all. Yotsuyu and Fordola might in the end though, but I hope they won't.

 

Fordola was the one villainous NPC that I really, really wanted to know more about. I wish they would have gone into her background more extensively.

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I'm of the opposite mind. I found Fordola to be an intolerable hypocrite who tried to wrap up her innate selfishness and brutality in a facade of "altruism". Yotsuyu on the other hand was an absolute monster' date=' but she was entirely honest about it. The world and everyone in it treated her like shit and when the tables were turned she responded in kind.[/quote']

 

Fordola appears to be one of the children that Gaius "made" with his brainwashing camps. That's the main reason why I want to know more about her. I didn't think she was consciously hypocritical - there's a line from Ardveld, one of the Walkers, who got an Echo off her during the encounter where she takes Krile. He describes her as someone who was promised the world...at the cost of her soul. Like she was told she would have everything she ever wanted - citizenship, a better life, acceptance...but that isn't what happened. It was a lie. The way she keeps talking about "freedom" is almost childlike. Like she's repeating what she'd been told over and over again, until she believed it.

 

That's the main reason why I am more interested in her over Yotsuyu.

 

Also, I think the entire narrative around Lyse would have flowed way better if they had just left Yda as Yda and let Minfilia be the lead character.

 

idk. I couldn't stand Minfilia because she seemed so useless. But maybe in this situation she'd have been a lot more useful? Thing is, Minfilia was never a warrior. And I kinda feel like only a warrior could truly lead the resistance - because they'd have to fight, too.

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Conrad making Lyse as the leader was really silly because far as I recall, Lyse didn't do anything as leader. The only one she ever interacted with to any real extent was M'naago, and as cool as M'naago was, she didn't really do anything either.

 

I mean, I get the feeling that the story was gearing Lyse towards a parallel with Hien, but Lyse really didn't learn anything. She started the story as a young revolutionary bent on freeing Ala Mhigo and ended the story as a young revolutionary bent on freeing Ala Mhigo. There was no transition.

 

What made Hien a great character was that he was wholly focused on the welfare of his people. Hien was fully willing to consider the idea that revolution was not the best outcome, and that surrender to Garlemald, as harsh as it was, might be the best course of action. Amidst his doubts and his experience as having been born during the occupation, he was equally willing to fight or forfeit.

 

However, all of these things completely fly over Lyse's head. Not once does she attempt to consider Fordola's perspective. While that mini storyline in Ala Gannha attempts to she some light on it, Lyse responds basically by being a robot that beeps "REVOLUTION REVOLUTION REVOLUTION RESISTANCE RESISTANCE RESISTANCE" over and over again.

 

Lyse was ostensibly the "main" character and the leader of the Resistance, but she took a backseat to the entire Ala Mhigan revolution. She didn't do anything, plan anything, or make any real significant decisions in her entire time there. She was purely a biased observer, yet the story seems to expect that she be treated as the main actor in everything.

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How the FUCK did Gosetsu survive and why the FUCK did Yotsuya survive Hien literally slicing her like he wanted to kill her???

 

Why the FUCK did Gosetsu SAVE Yotsuya and SWIM TO an isolated island when he was COUGHING UP BLOOD FROM SEVERAL BULLETS IN THE FLANK AND CHEST??? WHO HEALED HIM???

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I liked how Lyse was like "JUST GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER YOU OPPRESSED ALA MHIGANS FIGHT AGAINST THE GARLEANS REEEEE"

 

Like. Lyse. Hunny. That's now how it works.

 

Nor after her Othard adventure did she seemed changed in the slightest. I think it was meant to give her character growth? But they fucked that up so badly.

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I liked how Lyse was like "JUST GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER YOU OPPRESSED ALA MHIGANS FIGHT AGAINST THE GARLEANS REEEEE"

 

Like. Lyse. Hunny. That's now how it works.

 

Nor after her Othard adventure did she seemed changed in the slightest. I think it was meant to give her character growth? But they fucked that up so badly.

 

Every time she was in a position to learn something or grow someone else was given the camera instead. She's been a sidekick and comedic relief for so long I think the writers didn't know how to writer her out of that while still keeping her who she is. So instead she got the waffling pedestal not-really-involved treatment.

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How the FUCK did Gosetsu survive and why the FUCK did Yotsuya survive Hien literally slicing her like he wanted to kill her???

 

Why the FUCK did Gosetsu SAVE Yotsuya and SWIM TO an isolated island when he was COUGHING UP BLOOD FROM SEVERAL BULLETS IN THE FLANK AND CHEST??? WHO HEALED HIM???

 

Magic!

:cactuar:

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How the FUCK did Gosetsu survive and why the FUCK did Yotsuya survive Hien literally slicing her like he wanted to kill her???

 

Why the FUCK did Gosetsu SAVE Yotsuya and SWIM TO an isolated island when he was COUGHING UP BLOOD FROM SEVERAL BULLETS IN THE FLANK AND CHEST??? WHO HEALED HIM???

 

Magic!

:cactuar:

Well shit. Bout as legitimate a answer I'm going to get I guess.

 

Though, I knew without a doubt that fucker wasn't dead when the Khojin said he couldn't find the body. I blatantly called he was alive time I read that.

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Why the FUCK did Gosetsu SAVE Yotsuya and SWIM TO an isolated island when he was COUGHING UP BLOOD FROM SEVERAL BULLETS IN THE FLANK AND CHEST??? WHO HEALED HIM???

 

If you're playing a healer during that cutscene, you actually try to heal him! That's my headcanon for why he survived. WoL happened to be a healy-type that day and patched him up enough to survive.

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Why the FUCK did Gosetsu SAVE Yotsuya and SWIM TO an isolated island when he was COUGHING UP BLOOD FROM SEVERAL BULLETS IN THE FLANK AND CHEST??? WHO HEALED HIM???

 

If you're playing a healer during that cutscene, you actually try to heal him! That's my headcanon for why he survived. WoL happened to be a healy-type that day and patched him up enough to survive.

Oh? That's actually kinda neat honestly O.o guess that could be a legitimate thing.

 

Too bad I'm a Dork Knight. I guess I could've like... Blackest Night guarded him or something.... If I were level 70 at the time. Whew.

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Gosetsu's scene was entirely reminiscent of FF6 (along with all the other nostalgia homage instances) that I wasn't surprised by the Soroban going "well I couldn't find his body" and seeing he didn't die.

 

At this point I'm wondering if Edilibus is like Gaius or something.

 

I was hoping to see Lyse at least try to understand Fordola or why they would fight like the other youths. Instead Lyse is just "THEY'RE STUPID GOD" "TRAITOR"

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Why the FUCK did Gosetsu SAVE Yotsuya and SWIM TO an isolated island when he was COUGHING UP BLOOD FROM SEVERAL BULLETS IN THE FLANK AND CHEST??? WHO HEALED HIM???

 

If you're playing a healer during that cutscene, you actually try to heal him! That's my headcanon for why he survived. WoL happened to be a healy-type that day and patched him up enough to survive.

 

I never got that option, and I was playing as a White Mage.

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Why the FUCK did Gosetsu SAVE Yotsuya and SWIM TO an isolated island when he was COUGHING UP BLOOD FROM SEVERAL BULLETS IN THE FLANK AND CHEST??? WHO HEALED HIM???

 

If you're playing a healer during that cutscene, you actually try to heal him! That's my headcanon for why he survived. WoL happened to be a healy-type that day and patched him up enough to survive.

 

I never got that option, and I was playing as a White Mage.

 

Really? I did on SCH. You refuse to leave him or whatever, and Gogon held out his hand with the heal-glowies. It doesn't change anything, but I saw that as an attempt to heal.

 

Gosetsu's scene was entirely reminiscent of FF6 (along with all the other nostalgia homage instances) that I wasn't surprised by the Soroban going "well I couldn't find his body" and seeing he didn't die.

 

... And yeah. The moment that scene happened I just went "OH MY GOD HE'S PULLING A SABIN."

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Really? I did on SCH. You refuse to leave him or whatever' date=' and Gogon held out his hand with the heal-glowies. It doesn't change anything, but I saw that as an attempt to heal.[/quote']

 

I'll try looking at the cutscene again. Maybe I chose the wrong option?

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No body.

Specific explanation by NPC on how the floor collapsed underneath them and sent them into the river.

Not a single tear was shed that day.

 

 

Gosetsu, no family, probably dedicated to fighting one war or another his entire life. Yotsuyu, no love in her life from her family. Oh, I see what's happening here. Redemption arc. Lets ride.

 

I wonder how they can make it good though. I felt like they tried real hard to get me to feel for her motives, but the entire time I'm sitting there shaking my head like alright I see you had a rough one. You're still an awful person though.

 

 

I liked Zenos. Yeah, he was one dimensional but you need one of those every so often. When all your villains are fallen heroes that gets old too. Sometimes you just need a villain that's a monster. And this one was recognized as such even by his papa. Like it wasn't a character that was meant to be deeper and they fumbled it-- it was just a character that was meant to be a shallow monster.

 

Fordola was fantastic on the other hand. Just great.

 

This xpac definitely lacked the emotional impact of Haurchefaunt dying. Like compared to Haurchefaunt... who the eff was Conrad. I mean the old man was alright, but my friends barely remembered him. I had to remind them he died when they spoke of how little we lost.

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This xpac definitely lacked the emotional impact of Haurchefaunt dying. Like compared to Haurchefaunt... who the eff was Conrad. I mean the old man was alright, but my friends barely remembered him. I had to remind them he died when they spoke of how little we lost.

 

Gosetsu was our Haurchefant, I believe.

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I really liked the MSQ. From a gameplay and general narrative perspective, it had good pacing and it didn't really feel 'boring' at times. There were enough high moments to compensate for the quiet moments. So overall I like the approach they have taken and it's a step up from Heavensward. In truth, I think this is the best MMO Expansion I've played, and I played a boatload of them. So eh..well done SE. :)

 

However, there's a couple of minor gripes which can mostly be summarized into one thing: 'Lack of lasting impact.'

 

So going in order of events in the story somewhat, these are the things I somewhat disliked or had problems with. -Everything else- I loved to bits.

- Y'shtola - Urgh..I love her to bits really (her character, not her..physical appearance). And I have to admit that parts of Y'shtola rubbed off on my own character's do's and dont's BUT: She's got a real huge case of plot armour. This was the -perfect- moment for her to die as it would have had true meaning that she did everything to save her friends even if it would mean standing against huge odds. But no..she literally spits blood from a sword the size of a car being stuffed into her gut and she survives like some sort of Goldshire superhero. ARGH. I've seen stuff like this happen during RP events and since I always RP the 'mender' type in every MMO, basically what Krile and my character (the WOL actually heals Y'shtola instead of Alphinaud/Allisae if you play a healer class) had to go through is exactly the same thing that happened to my characters in several RP events in many MMO's in the past had to go through: Healing wounds which you are highly unlikely to ever heal from. And we already know Y'shtola is getting weaker and weaker due to the strain of the Aether being put on her. And yet she survives...somehow. *sighs* I get she's the poster-girl and that killing off poster-girls are bad for business, but if she had really died it would have really felt like a loss...at this point I think they are never going to kill her off. She's too popular as a mascot. The one thing I did like is that at the end of the story she gets snarky and sarcastic as a jest. More of that please, much more. I haven't really seen much of -that- side of Y'shtola since the start of Heavensward.

 

- Lyse - Okay, I see where they wanted to go with her. At first she's young, stubborn and due to the defeat in Rhalgr's Reach, she goes on a journey to Othard in order to do soul-searching and help an old friend. And for a while, she actually -does- learn some stuff. However, what she is missing is a 'mentor' character. It would be sappy as hell but I think it would have been better if Hien and Lyse got closer and that Hien would learn Lyse about 'restraint'. When we return back in Gyr Albania, it's as if all the things Lyse learned while being in Othard are gone again and she acts once more like a spoiled child. I really felt we were watching another Cirilla from The Witcher series: Always thinks she's right, screams and rarely listens when others say: Don't do this please. In the end, I don't really like her and I hope they kind of push her aside in favor of other characters from now. 

 

- Hien - Urgh I like his personality but they made him look way too much like generic Asian dude mixed with Conan the Barbarian (heck some of the Steppes music takes a few notes from the original Conan the Barbarian soundtrack which took place in Hyrkania = Asian steppes)....but he's way too much Hanzo. 

 

- Gosetsu - I liked the gentle giant. What I didn't like is how they make him survive multiple rounds to the chest, blood spitting (Y'shtola style), an entire palace coming right down on top of him and we see him not having a single scratch in the ending cinematic. NO, we accepted his loss literally 20 or so hours before that cinematic! He should have just stayed dead! This is a case of resurrecting a character for no reason whatsoever.

 

- Yotsuyu - This has been a rollercoaster character for me. At first they gave little detail nor context to her behavior so I thought her to be a generic Star Wars kind of villain. Then they give you a tiny bit of context to her character by showing you a flashback to her childhood where it is detailed she was a second rate child to her mother. This I liked. However, they didn't really explore that angle much at all. It would have been great if we got a line of sidequests where we got more of these echo scenes. But we didn't. Instead, she got into complete crazy mode when literally her palace comes crumbling down around her...Persona 5 style. And she survives it, somehow. And I betcha she will become a major character in the future where she is also redeemed and gets a change of heart, Persona 5 style. I just hope they pull it off well because she did commit a ton of atrocities against her people. What would have been better in my opinion is that Gosetsu would have died and that it would actually have been Cirina who finds Yotsuyu and have showed her the wrongs of her ways. In the end, I think Yotsuyu will become somewhat of a Aranea Highwind character: Good looking, kick-ass at swordfighting (from Gosetsu) and morally grey. 

 

- Krile - A case of bad cause and effect. She's kidnapped by the Garleans, then used on experiments to change personal traits of the Garlean people in some sort of horrible Nazi-like experiment and she has shows absolutely no mental nor physical scars. In fact, she is but rescued several hours ago and she already wants to fight again. It's almost a little insulting to people who had to actually endure such atrocities in real life. 

 

- Nero - We see him barely at all during this expansion yet he does show up at the very end like some sort of Ignis from FFXV cosplayer. During the final parts of the Heavensward MSQ's we seem him cooking up some plan with a demonic laughter. Yet we don't see him at all during Stormblood. I had nearly forgot about the guy entirely. 

 

- Fistpalm Punch - This needs to become an emote. They WOL does it SO often it almost has become comical at this point. :D 

 

So that was my rambling. Overall I loved the expansion and it had some really deep and nasty moments, but I do hope they learn to put in 'lasting impact' for the next couple of expansions because otherwise characters start to become literally unable to die which would kill all tension in the story for me.

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I overall liked the MSQ. Zenos was an interesting villain, and I felt like giving your main character input at what they are experiencing was a great move, and one i had been hoping for since 2.0.

 

Like so many, there were some things that didn't sit right with me. Lyse(and many others, but especiqlly Lyse)'s badgering on about "freedom and liberty" ended up sounding hollow, almost eye rolling, like if Zenos wasn't the nutball that he was, it would not have worked, or that the vice tightened on the provinces because of the resistance's actions(which I was ready to hear the dreaded t-word, but it never came up...)

 

I'd be surprised if we see Fodola again. She seemed like a relic of sane garlean governance, that ultimately couldn't play out under Zenos', who was more into his wacky safari than governance, and Fodola had no place in the new Ala Mihgo, but so as not to get the good guys' hands dirty they just made Fodola's hands dirty instead.

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I actually liked Conrad much better than Lyse. It felt very forced for him to die and hand over the reigns of the Ala Mhigan Resistance to someone like her, though. I mean, there's M'naago for starters but surely an organisation that has existed for a decent chunk of time would have multiple individuals who have the qualifications to step up and lead in Conrad's place.

 

Lyse, by comparison, was only a member of the Resistance for a short while, she spent most of 4.0 away from Gyr Abania and most of her achievements involve riding off of the coattails of the Warrior of Light and the rest of his allies.

 

Still, I liked every other character. She's just the weakest link in an otherwise strong cast..but it does feel as though she's be shoehorned in as 'Minfilia 2.0'. They even look very similar.

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While I may have a few stones throw in my direction-- or maybe kick on some lightbulbs...

 

But for those that got to the ending...

 

Who else wants to take bets that mister White Ascian = Gaius van Baelsar? Given the Emperor was pretty pissed going "How dare you!" and the fact mister White robes didn't show up until AFTER Gaius was knocked over. We know Ascians need bodies to be seen in the physical realm. We know they need their hosts to be in a weaken state both body and mind...

 

And given Gaius was both at the end of 2.0....

 

Also Gaius and the current Emperor were both highly against what Nael was doing, giving them a chance to get to know one another-- which may be how Gaius got away with blasting down Nael's Airships so you and the Grand Companies, back in 1.0, could get the needed specs.

 

Just food for though!

 

PS - I am a Garlean fangirl, I admit this. I am fascinated by them, studied their culture even back in 1.0 with what little we had, and adore Gaius. I never given up he is alive still- and if my theory on Legion's is correct by how the expansions go... Then to kill him... would be to kill 14. But that is another story for another time.

 

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While I may have a few stones throw in my direction-- or maybe kick on some lightbulbs...

 

But for those that got to the ending...

 

Who else wants to take bets that mister White Ascian = Gaius van Baelsar? Given the Emperor was pretty pissed going "How dare you!" and the fact mister White robes didn't show up until AFTER Gaius was knocked over. We know Ascians need bodies to be seen in the physical realm. We know they need their hosts to be in a weaken state both body and mind...

 

And given Gaius was both at the end of 2.0....

 

Also Gaius and the current Emperor were both highly against what Nael was doing, giving them a chance to get to know one another-- which may be how Gaius got away with blasting down Nael's Airships so you and the Grand Companies, back in 1.0, could get the needed specs.

 

Just food for though!

 

PS - I am a Garlean fangirl, I admit this. I am fascinated by them, studied their culture even back in 1.0 with what little we had, and adore Gaius. I never given up he is alive still- and if my theory on Legion's is correct by how the expansions go... Then to kill him... would be to kill 14. But that is another story for another time.

 

 

Okay, look, I'm  Gaius fangirl as well. But this has to be Regula, there's no other option.

 

Regula and the Emperor were friends, close ones even. Gaius and the new Emperor? Don't think they are even ever mentioned in the same line, let alone same dialogue.

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So, a thought occurred to me while listening to the theme from the final battle of the MSQ.

 

... Do you think the WoL will ever learn or get to do some of the crazier stuff we've seen the Echo's capable of? I mean, like, we've seen body-hopping back during Leviathan (and all the Ascians do this and they all apparently have the Echo or something?)... but Zenos literally possesses a Primal and takes control of it.

 

Because, I mean... there's vehicle fights and stuff where you get new abilities and whatnot on a special bar. Is there feasibility in the future of basically getting to do our own Shinryu vs. Omega giant monster battle?

 

Because the only new trick the WoL seems to have learned is that you can serve as a shield to block others from being tempered. Which is neat, and adds a new approach on "how to deal with Primals" if you have enough Echo users to pepper among your forces... but compared to WE BECOME AS (false) GODS, it's kinda lackluster.

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As always, there is a great deal of world-building and setting information that will be useful when subjecting roleplayers to future torments, packaged in a standard Final Fantasy storyline. 10/10.

 

As a narrative element, Zenos was fine. Callback to a standard form of an FF nihilist villain in the same way that so many of the monsters are callbacks to previous games and 6 in particular. Does it only count as a callback if we like being reminded of it? 

 

Mechanically, Zenos was used in a way that corrected a problem I had with Heavensward's use of Thordan - he kicked our ass a lot. Thordan felt like a letdown because he was defeated immediately after his first appearance, an unfortunate consequence of the writers trying to keep the Knights of the Round reveal close to their chests. Zenos, on the other hand, is placed up-front and promptly smacks the player down, then does it again a second time for good measure.

 

The character's emphasis on fostering hatred in his enemies to make them stronger offered a new perspective on Ilberd's plan at the end of 3.X and highlighted the futility of creating Shinryu; not only was it a misguided effort that would cause more destruction than it stopped, but it was one Ilberd's enemy actively desired and immediately appropriated for his own use. He was playing to Zenos' interests all along.

 

Lyse is also fine in the mold of the earnest heroine who never really does anything but feels all her feelings very strongly kind of way. Pretty normal for a JRPG/anime war story as an audience surrogate/moral beacon meant to highlight the futility of war.

 

The more "complicated" nature of Hien means little to me in contrast. There was never any chance in the story's structure that Doma would roll over and surrender, and Hien would actually offer his head. It just wasn't in the cards. He had very nice eyebrows though.

 

I would be more comfortable with Gosetsu's survival if there hadn't been so many scenes in which he ruminated on the inevitability and acceptance of death and his past failings.

 

Moving forward, I'm interested to see if the story will push the hatred/forgiveness angle represented in the dichotomy between Lyse and Zenos. Fordola's survival may be important to that theme, since a lot of Ala Mhigans are going to want her head. Hopefully, the writers will approach this a bit more artfully than they did in HW.

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While I may have a few stones throw in my direction-- or maybe kick on some lightbulbs...

 

But for those that got to the ending...

 

Who else wants to take bets that mister White Ascian = Gaius van Baelsar? Given the Emperor was pretty pissed going "How dare you!" and the fact mister White robes didn't show up until AFTER Gaius was knocked over. We know Ascians need bodies to be seen in the physical realm. We know they need their hosts to be in a weaken state both body and mind...

 

And given Gaius was both at the end of 2.0....

 

Also Gaius and the current Emperor were both highly against what Nael was doing, giving them a chance to get to know one another-- which may be how Gaius got away with blasting down Nael's Airships so you and the Grand Companies, back in 1.0, could get the needed specs.

 

Just food for though!

 

PS - I am a Garlean fangirl, I admit this. I am fascinated by them, studied their culture even back in 1.0 with what little we had, and adore Gaius. I never given up he is alive still- and if my theory on Legion's is correct by how the expansions go... Then to kill him... would be to kill 14. But that is another story for another time.

 

 

 

Okay, look, I'm  Gaius fangirl as well. But this has to be Regula, there's no other option.

 

Regula and the Emperor were friends, close ones even. Gaius and the new Emperor? Don't think they are even ever mentioned in the same line, let alone same dialogue.

I came to an entirely different conclusion when I thought about the "How dare you!" for a bit. I am not sure it is Gaius or Regula. Given the nature of the conversation prior to mask off being  about father's and sons, I am about 60% sure our White Ascian is wearing the face of Solus. Elibidus not only showed up after Gaius fell, but when we knew good and well the Emperor was weak and dying. Wearing the former emperor's face also means that Elibidus holds a possible trump card over Varis in being able to de-legitimize Varis' regime by revealing that the "former emperor" is actually alive, if Varis should decide not to go along with the Ascian's machinations. The "how dare you!" then works two fold, how dare you wear the face of my dead dad, and how dare you put me in check like this. My only lingering 40% on this theory comes from how popular Gaius is with the fan base and the idea SE might choose to play on that angle instead.

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