The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales

[Balken]

Even a DRK at that level without grit and all might face troubles to keep aggro if the DPS are dealing enough damage and spreading it all over the mobs.

 

A GLD with flash? lol.

 

Honestly this is what makes the really low level content a pain for me. I mark, aoe and try to adapt to whatever the dps are doing but even pretty decent end game gear it's a pain when DPS decide to do whatever they want sometimes, especially if they are similarly item level synced, oh my goodness does that hurt @_@

 

It reaaallly makes me wish GLD got their tanking stance before sword oath, like if they just switched those around would make at least part of that process so much easier!

[Gegenji]

Sadly, you can get that even in current-level content, though. Even against single-target enemies if the DPS decides to straight up UNLOAD before you've really had time to land a few good solid hits. Even moreso if you're the lowest geared character ther.

 

Had that in Hullbreaker HM... yesterday? Day before? I queued as WAR and we were on the last boss - never had problems with aggro up to that point but, while I was starting up my rotation set... the MCH of all people somehow managed to yank hate off me for a few seconds and get himself killed.

 

Of course, it's probably because I was going whole hog the entire dungeon, popping cooldowns against everything. So I couldn't open with my usual (and probably incorrect) rotation of Unchained->Infuriate->Inner Beast-Pop Stack-generating cooldowns->Storm's Eye combo->Inner Beast. Getting that off usually gets me enough hate that I can go Deliverance once Unchained (and the pacified debuff from Berserk) fades and just tear into things.

 

Fortunately (or unfortunately for him, I suppose), him dying "fixed" the aggro problem. So I suppose I was the bad PuG member in that situation, since I wanted to get through the dungeon ASAP and that meant full murder-mode. :blush:

[Caspar]

One of the quickest things I've learned from off tanking is that fracture can actually help me take (and keep aggro.) long enough on a single target until the pull is secured with Butcher's Block. Sometimes in normal dungeons it pays to prioritize getting and holding aggro before attempting to land the maximum level of damage. Generally you want to secure with your aggro combo before anything else. As I almost always tank normal dungeon bosses in Deliverance or without Grit to boost damage, unless i forget to alternate my aggro combo in, generally losing single target aggro isn't too big of a problem. In normal dungeons it used to not be uncommon for WAR I knew on my pve server to outdamage randos doing this.

 

Turning off grit helps me repeatedly use Dark Arts to add boosted Hard Slash and occasionally defensive cooldowns, so I have some aggro leeway to aggressively dps. Though I bet it makes the healer sad, I at least try to regularly self heal and roll all CDs.

[Melkire]

/winces at the above posts

 

WAR generally doesn't need to lead most pulls with Unchained or Berserk. Sure, it helps a lot and if you can then by all means, but it's not as vital as, say, Fight or Flight to a PLD's pull.

 

Tomahawk (skip if facepulling, depending on positioning) -> Overpower x2 (modify quantity and/or supplement with Flash as needed) -> Storm's Eye Combo (skip if heavily outgeared) -> Butcher's Block Combo (distribute SS and BB evenly across mobs, always land Heavy Swing on a mob with Eye, land SS and BB preferably on mobs with Eye unless aggro is building fast on those without) -> Overpower/Flash (as needed) -> Gradually Distribute Eye to All Mobs -> Overpower/Flash (as needed) -> "Rotation"

[Caspar]

/winces at the above posts

 

WAR generally doesn't need to lead most pulls with Unchained or Berserk. Sure, it helps a lot and if you can then by all means, but it's not as vital as, say, Fight or Flight to a PLD's pull.

 

Tomahawk (skip if facepulling, depending on positioning) -> Overpower x2 (modify quantity and/or supplement with Flash as needed) -> Storm's Eye Combo (skip if heavily outgeared) -> Butcher's Block Combo (distribute SS and BB evenly across mobs, always land Heavy Swing on a mob with Eye, land SS and BB preferably on mobs with Eye unless aggro is building fast on those without) -> Overpower/Flash (as needed) -> "Rotation"

I thought he was talking about single target? I usually do fine without using Overpower on single targets, even if it is very generous at generating aggro. If it is a group you absolutely must overpower before any combos.

[Melkire]

I thought he was talking about single target? I usually do fine without using Overpower on single targets, even if it is very generous at generating aggro. If it is a group you absolutely must overpower before any combos.

 

Omit all AoE enmity generators on a single-target pull, of course.

 

 

P.S. There's no enmity multiplier on IB, don't rely on it to generate hate even if it does have a decently-high potency. It's more for mitigation; you can lead with Foresight or Raw Intuition or Vengeance at the start of a pull and transition into IB later. Steel Cyclone is amazing on groups, though. With the multiplier, it's stronger than Overpower.

[Gegenji]

To be fair, I tend to blank on using Overpower/Flash when it's single target. For groups I'll use them - and also tend to use my stacks for Steel Cyclone instead of Unchained/Inner Beast - and my rotation more fits along what you have there, Melkire. Honestly, I just like using Unchained/Berserk in my opening pull for bosses just for that added bit of initial damage and threat... and I feel like the Berserk timer is a good easy marker of "okay, I should have enough aggro now, time to go Deliverance." Which may be the wrong way to look at it. :blush:

 

Then again, I also don't Cross-Class Awareness, so I'm already a Bad WAR. :lol:

 

P.S. There's no enmity multiplier on IB, don't rely on it to generate hate even if it does have a decently-high potency. It's more for mitigation; you can lead with Foresight or Raw Intuition or Vengeance at the start of a pull and transition into IB later. Steel Cyclone is amazing on groups, though. With the multiplier, it's stronger than Overpower.

 

Posts came while I was writing up mine! I'm glad I'm not missing the boat by not OP/Flashing single targets. In regards to this bit here, I mostly just use IB because I have full stacks and feel a BURNING NEED to use them. Another sign of being a bad WAR, I suppose.

[Melkire]

I can think of only three scenarios in which to not burn Wrath/Abandon stacks.

 

1. A tank-buster is on the way and you're going to need to time IB for it.

2. Unchained is about to come off cooldown.

3. You're waiting for cooldown timers to line up for triple FC.

 

Otherwise, burn stacks as soon as you hit five of them depending on what you need:

 

Mitigation (Inner Beast)

AoE Enmity (Steel Cyclone)

Single-Target Burst (Fell Cleave)

AoE Burst (Decimate)

[Gegenji]

Okay, so I'm doing that part right then. Well, mostly. As I mentioned, I just use IB for the stacks when Unchained for the extra damage. Otherwise, in single target fights, it's almost always being used on Fell Cleaves. :lol:

[Valence]

the MCH of all people somehow managed to yank hate off me for a few seconds and get himself killed.

 

I bet that MCH unleashed his full burst opener without even bothering to use quelling strikes (or even didn't even have that crossclass). MCH burst phase can be similarly as scary as BLM.

 

One of the quickest things I've learned from off tanking is that fracture can actually help me take (and keep aggro.) long enough on a single target until the pull is secured with Butcher's Block. Sometimes in normal dungeons it pays to prioritize getting and holding aggro before attempting to land the maximum level of damage. Generally you want to secure with your aggro combo before anything else. As I almost always tank normal dungeon bosses in Deliverance or without Grit to boost damage, unless i forget to alternate my aggro combo in, generally losing single target aggro isn't too big of a problem. In normal dungeons it used to not be uncommon for WAR I knew on my pve server to outdamage randos doing this.

 

Turning off grit helps me repeatedly use Dark Arts to add boosted Hard Slash and occasionally defensive cooldowns, so I have some aggro leeway to aggressively dps. Though I bet it makes the healer sad, I at least try to regularly self heal and roll all CDs.

 

I generally prefer as a heal that tanks keep their defensive stance so that I don't have to heal them besides the usual regen and a few medicas here and there for boss AoEs.

 

I tend to think (maybe wrongly) that not having to lose so much time switching from cleric to heal actually makes me boost the party DPS significantly.

[Caspar]

the MCH of all people somehow managed to yank hate off me for a few seconds and get himself killed.

 

I bet that MCH unleashed his full burst opener without even bothering to use quelling strikes (or even didn't even have that crossclass). MCH burst phase can be similarly as scary as BLM.

 

One of the quickest things I've learned from off tanking is that fracture can actually help me take (and keep aggro.) long enough on a single target until the pull is secured with Butcher's Block. Sometimes in normal dungeons it pays to prioritize getting and holding aggro before attempting to land the maximum level of damage. Generally you want to secure with your aggro combo before anything else. As I almost always tank normal dungeon bosses in Deliverance or without Grit to boost damage, unless i forget to alternate my aggro combo in, generally losing single target aggro isn't too big of a problem. In normal dungeons it used to not be uncommon for WAR I knew on my pve server to outdamage randos doing this.

 

Turning off grit helps me repeatedly use Dark Arts to add boosted Hard Slash and occasionally defensive cooldowns, so I have some aggro leeway to aggressively dps. Though I bet it makes the healer sad, I at least try to regularly self heal and roll all CDs.

 

I generally prefer as a heal that tanks keep their defensive stance so that I don't have to heal them besides the usual regen and a few medicas here and there for boss AoEs.

 

I tend to think (maybe wrongly) that not having to lose so much time switching from cleric to heal actually makes me boost the party DPS significantly.

I couldn't say. I don't perceive myself to be taking a huge amount of damage because I try to CD efficiently, whereas I'm also very out of touch with balance changes. Most of my knowledge is from STR accessories on tanks days and during that time the tank I learned from generally outdamaged the rando dps. In our raids healer dps was usually inferior despite ours having to be aggressive to make up for a somewhat anemic BLM.

[Melkire]

I tend to think (maybe wrongly) that not having to lose so much time switching from cleric to heal actually makes me boost the party DPS significantly.

 

No amount of extra healer DPS from a few more seconds of Cleric Stance is ever going to outweigh a Warrior in Deliverance. Fell Cleave crits are just that large a burst (pre-VIT change, a FC from a i210 Warrior back during Gordias Savage would rival Fire IV from a BLM for biggest single burst from a crit - approximately 11k, iirc, outside of Ravana Vuln Up scenarios). This is still the case post-VIT changes.

 

I can't speak for DRK or for PLD, but I know this to be the case for WAR.

[111]

I tend to think (maybe wrongly) that not having to lose so much time switching from cleric to heal actually makes me boost the party DPS significantly.

 

No amount of extra healer DPS from a few more seconds of Cleric Stance is ever going to outweigh a Warrior in Deliverance. Fell Cleave crits are just that large a burst (pre-VIT change, a FC from a i210 Warrior back during Gordias Savage would rival Fire IV from a BLM for biggest single burst from a crit - approximately 11k, iirc, outside of Ravana Vuln Up scenarios). This is still the case post-VIT changes.

 

I can't speak for DRK or for PLD, but I know this to be the case for WAR.

Just have your healers and tanks both be in DPS stance. Fell Cleaves are disgusting and by far the largest hits in the game outside of abilities like wildfire. 

 

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/yMPKR6V7hgZfL1Yj#fight=4&type=damage-done

 

It's possible if you know the fight well, both healers and tanks can do decent dps (about 1/3 of the dps in our static). Obviously in pugs it's a lot harder. I typically just do dps stance on bosses, as they actually tend to hit weaker than large pulls (and are easier to keep aggro on).

[Valence]

I tend to think (maybe wrongly) that not having to lose so much time switching from cleric to heal actually makes me boost the party DPS significantly.

 

No amount of extra healer DPS from a few more seconds of Cleric Stance is ever going to outweigh a Warrior in Deliverance. Fell Cleave crits are just that large a burst (pre-VIT change, a FC from a i210 Warrior back during Gordias Savage would rival Fire IV from a BLM for biggest single burst from a crit - approximately 11k, iirc, outside of Ravana Vuln Up scenarios). This is still the case post-VIT changes.

 

I can't speak for DRK or for PLD, but I know this to be the case for WAR.

 

For a warrior, possibly. Although warriors are even more annoying to heal in that regards considering that their mitigation is atrocious and they have huge amounts of HP to compensate.

 

The problem is mostly when you are trying to pop your own cooldowns like Presence of Mind and don't want to be disturbed at any cost. When your warrior is dropping like a fly while you are casting all you have, it wastes the whole thing.

 

But yeah, I can guess that deliverance warriors are probably better that way.

[Kilieit]

FATEs count, right?

 

> attack on highbridge

> level 26 arcanist

> heal the whole time, let topaz carbuncle do what it wants

> fine for the first three fates

> i'm level 26 with a bunch of synced dps i'm doing my best

> aetherflow is constantly on cooldown but we're good

> final/4th fate

> person who first went for the boss just ran through all the mobs

> i heal them

> everything aggros on me

> my poor carbuncle does its best but even with me spamhealing it it bites the dust

> no one is helping me even after i kite around, basically waving a huge screaming flag of I'M IN TROUBLE AND HAVE THE ENTIRE CAMP AFTER ME PLEASE ASSIST

> i soon follow in my carbuncle's footsteps

> plenty of spellcasters about

> no raise

> sit there for like 2-3 minutes while they FINALLY deal with the adds because they have to, then kill the boss

> no raise

> fate ends

> bronze medal

> no raise

> at the end when everyone is dispersing one of the BLMs hovers around near to my corpse

> then mounts up

> and rides away

> no raise

> thanks

 

 

this is my luck whiplash for getting 7 komajiro medals in about 10 FATEs earlier tonight, isn't it?

[Charity322]

this is my luck whiplash for getting 7 komajiro medals in about 10 FATEs earlier tonight, isn't it?

 

To be fair, if you were the healer then they probably didn't have Raise. You said they were all DPS.

[Kilieit]

Raise can be cross-classed. There were a whole lot of people running with classes (not jobs, so they could cross-class anything they like from any class) and also spellcasters around.

 

The fact one of them seemed to waffle on raising me before deciding against it was the real kicker. :I

[Gegenji]

Raise can be cross-classed. There were a whole lot of people running with classes (not jobs, so they could cross-class anything they like from any class) and also spellcasters around.

 

The fact one of them seemed to waffle on raising me before deciding against it was the real kicker. :I

 

A lot of folks just seem... unwilling to rez anyway. I was openly shocked at one point when I was in... a raid or Trial or something... I think it might've been a VArk or a Weeping City. Anyway, whatever it was, we had a bunch of DPS - including myself (as a SMN) - drop for some reason or another. And our healers picked up EVERYONE BUT ME first as we recovered.

 

I idly mentioned after the fight that the rezzing could've likely gone faster - and eaten up less of their MP - if they rezzed me first. And they said they hadn't because all the SMNs they've dealt with refused to rez because it gouged their precious deeps. To which I stated I'd rather rez than wipe - deeps don't get you anything if your team is dead. Which I think they appreciated - though we didn't have a close call like that for the rest of the run.

 

But yeah. It seems to be a common enough thing that people who can rez don't usually want to. Meanwhile even Chachan has Raise slotted in his PLD cross-class (though that's mostly because I never got his CNJ high enough for Stoneskin). So, if someone near me needs a rez, I can usually throw one out.

[Melkire]

Raise can be cross-classed. There were a whole lot of people running with classes (not jobs, so they could cross-class anything they like from any class) and also spellcasters around.

 

The fact one of them seemed to waffle on raising me before deciding against it was the real kicker. :I

 

You'd still need the Enhanced Raise trait to actually rez someone while mid-combat, unless they were ACN/SCH/SMN (since Resurrection can rez mid-combat without a trait). Cross-classing Raise on any other class but CNJ/WHM results in being unable tor rez at all unless you leave combat.

 

Under level 28, only ACN/SCH/SMN can battle rez. Sounds like the THM/BLM/CNJ, what have you, didn't want to risk losing credit for the FATE just to rez you in time.

[Virella]

Really, as a healer my priority is, when it comes down to DPS...

 

First my manabots, aka bards and mch, then the SMN (provided they appear to know what they are doing), then the good DPS, and as last, the shitty DPS who will most likely die again.

 

Unless we need a specific LB or something, I just rest a melee quickly first. But yeah, manabots first, summoners with brains second, then going from the good to the bad dps.

 

Might be just me, but when I see people dead in the open world, I will ress them x_X Just a bit of an old school MMO courtesy? Dunno, just feel like a dick if I leave them dead

[111]

 

 

Might be just me, but when I see people dead in the open world, I will ress them x_X Just a bit of an old school MMO courtesy? Dunno, just feel like a dick if I leave them dead

 

It used to be more relevant as certain trials (namely chimera and hydra) would just boot your corpse outside the instance if the party wiped.

 

If there wasn't a nice healer nearby to res you, you'd have to run all the way back there from wherever your home point is.

[Kilieit]

Raise can be cross-classed. There were a whole lot of people running with classes (not jobs, so they could cross-class anything they like from any class) and also spellcasters around.

 

The fact one of them seemed to waffle on raising me before deciding against it was the real kicker. :I

 

You'd still need the Enhanced Raise trait to actually rez someone while mid-combat, unless they were ACN/SCH/SMN (since Resurrection can rez mid-combat without a trait). Cross-classing Raise on any other class but CNJ/WHM results in being unable tor rez at all unless you leave combat.

 

Under level 28, only ACN/SCH/SMN can battle rez. Sounds like the THM/BLM/CNJ, what have you, didn't want to risk losing credit for the FATE just to rez you in time.

 

Yeah, which I reserve my right to be peeved about, because it means that out of the ~10 people who showed up for Act III, not one of them considered that it might be upsetting for me to lose out on FATE credit, when I was one of about three people responsible for getting Act III to spawn in the first place. :I

 

I know expecting non-selfish behaviour from strangers is a step too far, but it still annoyed me.

[Sounsyy]

Going to talk about warriors a little bit.

 

_________________________

WAR generally doesn't need to lead most pulls with Unchained or Berserk. Sure, it helps a lot and if you can then by all means, but it's not as vital as, say, Fight or Flight to a PLD's pull.

 

Tomahawk (skip if facepulling, depending on positioning) -> Overpower x2 (modify quantity and/or supplement with Flash as needed) -> Storm's Eye Combo (skip if heavily outgeared) -> Butcher's Block Combo (distribute SS and BB evenly across mobs, always land Heavy Swing on a mob with Eye, land SS and BB preferably on mobs with Eye unless aggro is building fast on those without) -> Overpower/Flash (as needed) -> Gradually Distribute Eye to All Mobs -> Overpower/Flash (as needed) -> "Rotation"

 

This isn't a bad rotation for Trash pulls in dungeons. A few notes: be sure to be mindful of your Overpower usage. At max, you should be limiting yourself to roughly three Overpowers per Trash pull to ensure you're not overtaxing your TP. Cleanly weaving into Deliverance for Equilibrium (TP) helps manage this somewhat, but remember that AoE Enmity is primarily useful for maintaining hate against steady enmity build by DoTs and Heals. If DPS are targeting multiple enemies, Overpower spam will not hold them and will only drain you of resources. It's better to perform the single-target enmity combo on any mobs being directly attacked by DPS, but dispersing your combo evenly across multiple enemies will hold hate far better than any AoE ever will.

 

Compare:

Overpower: 430 dmg x 5.0 multiplier x 2.7 defiance = 5805 enmity

Skull Sunder: 950 dmg x 3.5 multiplier x 2.7 defiance = 8978 enmity

Butcher's Block: 1400 dmg x 5.5 multiplier x 2.7 defiance = 20790 enmity

 

An exception to the conservative Overpower rule would be during Big Pulls in which you face 10+ enemies. In this instance, combining Vengeance, Berserk, Internal Release, Bloodbath, Steel Cyclone, and Overpower spam not only generates massive AoE damage and enmity on all enemies, it also enables a WAR to almost sufficiently self-heal sustain themselves solo through the pull by ensuring HP return from each mob hit. This allows Healers more leeway to add AoE dps to Big Pulls. However, this tactic really should only be used on groups of enemies that number too many to effectively single-target combo across and is increasingly more effective the more enemies you're facing.

 

For MTing bosses in raids or dungeons as WAR, I recommend the following rotations:

Rotations Guide:

 

Abilities will be divided like so " | Ability | " to demonstrate the GCD timer. When " | Ability + Ability | " appears, the first ability in sequence will always be one that activates the GCD and each additional ability added inside the brackets is a cooldown which should ideally be weaved before the GCD resets and the next ability in sequence is executed. At most, two cooldowns may be weaved in between each GCD ability without inflicting a delay penalty on the next action in sequence so long as they are used in rapid succession. In some cases, it is best to only attempt weaving one cooldown per GCD if a cooldown delays its activation. To maximize DPS potential, you should attempt to never delay the use of a GCD ability on an off-GCD cooldown ability.

 

Boss Opener MT (Defiance - No Stacks)

(Optional: Overpower) | Heavy Swing + Brutal Swing | Skull Sunder▲I | Butcher's Block▲II |

Heavy Swing | Maim▲III + Bloodbath | Storm's Eye▲IV + Berserk▲V + Unchained |

Heavy Swing + Internal Release | Skull Sunder▲I + Vengeance▲II | Butcher's Block▲III + Brutal Swing |

Heavy Swing | Skull Sunder▲IV | Butcher's Block▲V + Deliverance |

Fell Cleave + Infuriate▲V | Fell Cleave |

 

Comments: This is how I open against any solo tank dungeon or raid boss when I enter the fight with no Wrath stacks. Optional Overpower is for initial hate spike if you have nuke-y or trigger happy DPS. As a WAR even after nerf, the first Butcher's Block combo is enough to hold hate until the second, Berserked, Butcher's Block combo is completed. This opener generates an enormous amount of enmity, but it takes more time to prep your Berserk, which can have drawbacks in some dungeons.

 

Note: If you are tanking a hard hitting boss, such as Onslaughter in M4, or attempting to build hate for a Hunt A or S rank, you can elect to remain in Defiance for the entirety of this rotation and replace the ending Fell Cleaves with either double Steel Cyclone for enmity, double Inner Beast for single target damage and mitigation, or a Steel Cyclone > Inner Beast combination for additional Opener enmity and Mitigation during Pacification.

 

Why Overpower and not Tomahawk against a single target?

Overpower: 430 dmg x 5.0 multiplier x 2.7 defiance = 5805 enmity

Tomahawk: 475 dmg x 3.0 multiplier x 2.7 defiance = 3847 enmity

 

Considering the TP cost difference between Overpower (130) and Tomahawk (120) is only +10, I consider the 50% higher enmity gain to be more effective for the niche purposes of snap-gaining enmity to prep your Opener Rotation. Essentially, Tomahawk's only usefulness is panic-snapping fleeing mobs after Provoke. Though when possible, it is more beneficial to have Healer stack on you or you stack on Healer- in the case of aggro'ing mob groups entering late to a battle.

 

Boss Opener MT (Defiance - Minimum 2 Stacks)

Heavy Swing + Brutal Swing | Maim▲III + Bloodbath | Storm's Eye▲IV + Berserk▲V + Unchained |

Heavy Swing + Internal Release | Skull Sunder▲I + Vengeance▲II | Butcher's Block▲III |

Heavy Swing | Skull Sunder▲IV | Butcher's Block▲V + Deliverance + Brutal Swing |

Fell Cleave + Infuriate▲V | Fell Cleave |

 

Comments: To pull this combo off, you have to aggro the dungeon or raid boss with at least 10s remaining on your II+ Wrath stack. Again, optional Overpower for initial hate grab, but opening with Overpower is counter-intuitive to the purpose of this rotation. Which is, to deploy a full Berserk rotation before the boss uses its first fight mechanic. Like clockwork, most dungeon or raid bosses in Heavensward (Neverreap, Fractal, Thordan, Midas, etc) activate their first fight mechanic at roughly 30s after aggro. By entering the fight with two stacks of Wrath, it's possible to complete your opening Berserk rotation just before mechanics begin. So if you have to disengage target or dodge AoE's you'll do so while Pacified and not in the middle of your Berserk combo.

 

Note: If you are tanking a hard hitting boss, such as Onslaughter in M4, or attempting to build hate for a Hunt A or S rank, you can elect to remain in Defiance for the entirety of this rotation and replace the ending Fell Cleaves with either double Steel Cyclone for enmity, double Inner Beast for single target damage and mitigation, or a Steel Cyclone > Inner Beast combination for additional Opener enmity and Mitigation during Pacification.

 

 

Additional rotations for OTing, OT Opener, and DPS rotation can be found below:

Boss Opener OT (Triple Fell Cleave) (Deliverance - No Stacks)

Heavy Swing + Brutal Swing | Maim▲I | Storm's Path▲II |

Heavy Swing | Maim▲III | Storm's Eye▲IV |

Heavy Swing + Berserk▲V + Internal Release | Fell Cleave + Infuriate▲V | Fell Cleave + Raw Intuition▲I + Awareness |

Heavy Swing + Brutal Swing | Skull Sunder▲II | Butcher's Block▲III |

Heavy Swing | Maim▲IV | Storm's Eye▲V | Fell Cleave |

 

Comments: This I use pretty exclusively for raid bosses in which I am not the MT. More importantly, raid bosses where I have no desire to take hate. To accomplish this, I avoid opening with a Butcher's Block combo to allow the MT to build hate, opting instead for Storm's Path, though honestly if you want to open with Butcher's Block you can if you think you can avoid taking hate. Notice that unlike the previous two opener rotations, this one uses three Fell Cleaves instead of two. To accomplish this, you delay popping Berserk until after your third Heavy Swing and after immediately burning your first two Fell Cleaves using your prep stacks and Infuriate, sacrifice a defensive buff such as Raw Intuition or Vengeance for the extra stack needed to pop the third Fell Cleave at the end of your Berserk rotation. Make special note that in the OT rotation listed I popped Raw Intuition and Awareness instead of Vengeance. This is because Raw Intuition's cooldown matches Berserk's perfectly and will be again available for use in the exact same spot in your rotation every time. Vengeance's cooldown will not, and should be saved for the MT'ing combo where you can utilize the dps gain and mitigation effectively and then save Raw Intuition for the following Berserk rotation. Also important to note that because you delayed Berserk with the extra Heavy Swing, your Storm's Eye debuff will fall off before your third Fell Cleave if you do not refresh it as your second combo during Berserk like its shown above.

 

 

Repeat Damage Rotation Mid-Fight MT/OT (Triple Fell Cleave) (Deliverance)

Heavy Swing + Brutal Swing | Skull Sunder▲I | Butcher's Block▲II |

Heavy Swing | Maim▲III | Storm's Eye▲IV |

Heavy Swing + Berserk▲V + Internal Release | Fell Cleave + Infuriate▲V | Fell Cleave + Raw Intuition▲I + Awareness |

Heavy Swing + Brutal Swing | Skull Sunder▲II | Butcher's Block▲III |

Heavy Swing | Maim▲IV | Storm's Eye▲V | Fell Cleave | 5s

 

Heavy Swing | Skull Sunder▲I + Brutal Swing | Butcher's Block▲II |

Heavy Swing | Maim▲III | Storm's Eye▲IV |

Heavy Swing | Skull Sunder▲V | Fell Cleave | Butcher's Block▲I + Brutal Swing |

Heavy Swing | Maim▲II | Storm's Eye▲III |

Heavy Swing | Skull Sunder▲IV | Butcher's Block▲V |

Heavy Swing | Fell Cleave | Maim▲I + Brutal Swing | Storm's Eye▲II | REPEAT UNTIL BERSERK RECAST||

 

Comments: This builds upon the previous Deliverance Opener and continues the basic DPS rotation for WAR. Essentially, for maximum damage, alternate Butcher's Block and Storm's Eye combos, making sure to pop Brutal Swing whenever it is off cooldown. Why use your hate combo when you're not tanking? Because Skull Sunder has a higher attack potency than Maim, and Butcher's Block has the highest attack potency of all your combo finishers. By spamming Maim+Storm's Eye, you're losing out on DPS, and by using Storm's Path for DPS rather than utility, you are effectively gimping your max damage.

 

Always use Fell Cleave as soon as you reach five stacks of Abandon, especially when your next weaponskill adds another stack of Abandon. This will happen every other Storm's Eye/Butcher's Block rotation and always after using Maim or Skull Sunder as seen above. When your fifth Abandon stack falls at the end of your combo after Storm's Eye or Butcher's Block, you can postpone using Fell Cleave until after your next Heavy Swing, to profit from the extra 10% critical hit rate for that attack.

 

Use Berserk whenever it is available, but be sure to always properly prep your Berserk combo! Make sure your Storm's Eye accounts for your fourth Abandon stack. If Storm's Eye gives the second or third Abandon stack instead, repeat the Storm's Eye combo until you have sufficient stacks (IV+) to begin your Berserk combo.

 

 

As for Flash, use it if you wish, but it isn't recommended for WARs. Especially as it conflicts with better cross-class options. (Convalescence, Provoke, Awareness, Second Wind, Internal Release) While it uses MP for AoE enmity generation instead of TP, thanks to 3.0's Equilibrium WARs are no longer plagued by TP drain. If you find you're running out of TP quickly, the first step should be to reconsider the rotation you're using for enmity gain. Additionally, if you're finding you're actually having AoE enmity troubles as a WAR and you are using Flash, it might be the cause.

 

Flash Pros:

-Uses MP instead of TP.

-Can be used when Pacified. (WAR should not be hurting for enmity after completing a Berserk rotation, even in Deliverance.)

-Does not interrupt combo. (Steel Cyclone also does not though and generates way more enmity.)

 

Flash Cons:

-Activates Spell GCD, delaying combos which deal significantly more dps and enmity.

-Does not deal damage. This lowers WAR's dps output, party utility, and cannot be used for self healing.

-Cannot Crit and is not affected by damage buffs such as Maim, but is affected by Berserk. However, you'd never want to use Flash during Berserk because of Spell GCD.

-Generates 10% less enmity for WAR than it does for PLD thanks to Defiance.

-Smaller range & radius than Overpower and may require sacrificing frontal position against adds to hit all targets in range.

-Consumes a cross-class slot.

 

 

_________________________

I can think of only three scenarios in which to not burn Wrath/Abandon stacks. Otherwise, burn stacks as soon as you hit five of them depending on what you need:

 

Like you said, in most cases you can burn stacks as soon as you earn them. Especially Wrath, the stacks of which only increase your Parry chance by 10% and essentially are inconsequential. When in Deliverance, stacks of Abandon increase your Critical Hit Rate, so if the previous combo-finisher gained your 5th stack, you should hold Fell Cleave until after your next Heavy Swing so it benefits from the increased CHR and does not generate a stack therefor no penalization. Always blow the 5th stack before using your next stack-generating weaponskill, unless you're saving for upcoming Berserk rotation as discussed above in the rotations spoiler.

 

 

Hopefully that helps if you're a WAR and you're having enmity issues. ^^

[Dat Oni]

So I was doing Praetorium today for my Main Scenario roulette as WAR. I had a DRK as our second tank with a Hyperconductive Skoffnung to compete with my Padjali Axe. The instance starts out with him lecturing us on how to "properly" sackpull and faceroll through the first encounters after the MNK decides to do it for us (and to be honest, if we're skipping content, does it even matter who does it?)

 

We make it to the first boss, and I proceed to pull it because I'm a level 50 synced WAR, and I have no OT stance. The DRK, however, decides they wanna MT, and they spend the entire fight blowing all their mp on DA Power Slashes. I explain to them before the next boss that I have no OT stance, and that I will always pull hate off them as a result. Their response?

 

[13:14](DRK) dont need it here, no worries

 

Okay, then, so I guess we've reached an understanding? Apparently not, because he spends the next boss, Nero, doing the exact same thing. When the Power Slashes fail, he mixes in a few Unleashes in a desperate bid to get aggro, outright refusing to turn off Grit and accept the role of OT. Same story for Gaius, and same story for Ultima Weapon phase 1 and 2, where he manages to completely deplete ALL HIS MP trying to gain aggro. He even tries Provoking, but so much as one Storm's Eye manages to get my aggro back. 

 

By this point, i'm not the only one pissed at him. 

 

[13:21](Amanda Bloom) [DRK] should just switch jobs at this point. terrible tank

 

He continues this charade all the way to the last fight against Lahabrea, where I take aggro and hold it without interruption the whole way through. He ends the instance on next to no mp.

 

I walk away with several commendations.

[Caspar]

Going to talk about warriors a little bit.

 

_________________________

WAR generally doesn't need to lead most pulls with Unchained or Berserk. Sure, it helps a lot and if you can then by all means, but it's not as vital as, say, Fight or Flight to a PLD's pull.

 

Tomahawk (skip if facepulling, depending on positioning) -> Overpower x2 (modify quantity and/or supplement with Flash as needed) -> Storm's Eye Combo (skip if heavily outgeared) -> Butcher's Block Combo (distribute SS and BB evenly across mobs, always land Heavy Swing on a mob with Eye, land SS and BB preferably on mobs with Eye unless aggro is building fast on those without) -> Overpower/Flash (as needed) -> Gradually Distribute Eye to All Mobs -> Overpower/Flash (as needed) -> "Rotation"

 

This isn't a bad rotation for Trash pulls in dungeons. A few notes: be sure to be mindful of your Overpower usage. At max, you should be limiting yourself to roughly three Overpowers per Trash pull to ensure you're not overtaxing your TP. Cleanly weaving into Deliverance for Equilibrium (TP) helps manage this somewhat, but remember that AoE Enmity is primarily useful for maintaining hate against steady enmity build by DoTs and Heals. If DPS are targeting multiple enemies, Overpower spam will not hold them and will only drain you of resources. It's better to perform the single-target enmity combo on any mobs being directly attacked by DPS, but dispersing your combo evenly across multiple enemies will hold hate far better than any AoE ever will.

 

Compare:

Overpower: 430 dmg x 5.0 multiplier x 2.7 defiance = 5805 enmity

Skull Sunder: 950 dmg x 3.5 multiplier x 2.7 defiance = 8978 enmity

Butcher's Block: 1400 dmg x 5.5 multiplier x 2.7 defiance = 20790 enmity

 

An exception to the conservative Overpower rule would be during Big Pulls in which you face 10+ enemies. In this instance, combining Vengeance, Berserk, Internal Release, Bloodbath, Steel Cyclone, and Overpower spam not only generates massive AoE damage and enmity on all enemies, it also enables a WAR to almost sufficiently self-heal sustain themselves solo through the pull by ensuring HP return from each mob hit. This allows Healers more leeway to add AoE dps to Big Pulls. However, this tactic really should only be used on groups of enemies that number too many to effectively single-target combo across and is increasingly more effective the more enemies you're facing.

 

For MTing bosses in raids or dungeons as WAR, I recommend the following rotations:

Rotations Guide:

 

Abilities will be divided like so " | Ability | " to demonstrate the GCD timer. When " | Ability + Ability | " appears, the first ability in sequence will always be one that activates the GCD and each additional ability added inside the brackets is a cooldown which should ideally be weaved before the GCD resets and the next ability in sequence is executed. At most, two cooldowns may be weaved in between each GCD ability without inflicting a delay penalty on the next action in sequence so long as they are used in rapid succession. In some cases, it is best to only attempt weaving one cooldown per GCD if a cooldown delays its activation. To maximize DPS potential, you should attempt to never delay the use of a GCD ability on an off-GCD cooldown ability.

 

Boss Opener MT (Defiance - No Stacks)

(Optional: Overpower) | Heavy Swing + Brutal Swing | Skull Sunder▲I | Butcher's Block▲II |

Heavy Swing | Maim▲III + Bloodbath | Storm's Eye▲IV + Berserk▲V + Unchained |

Heavy Swing + Internal Release | Skull Sunder▲I + Vengeance▲II | Butcher's Block▲III + Brutal Swing |

Heavy Swing | Skull Sunder▲IV | Butcher's Block▲V + Deliverance |

Fell Cleave + Infuriate▲V | Fell Cleave |

 

Comments: This is how I open against any solo dungeon or raid boss when I enter the fight with no Wrath stacks. Optional Overpower is for initial hate spike if you have nuke-y or trigger happy DPS. As a WAR even after nerf, the first Butcher's Block combo is enough to hold hate until the second, Berserked, Butcher's Block combo is completed. This opener generates an enormous amount of enmity, but it takes more time to prep your Berserk, which can have drawbacks in some dungeons.

 

Note: If you are tanking a hard hitting boss, such as Onslaughter in M4, or attempting to build hate for a Hunt A or S rank, you can elect to remain in Defiance for the entirety of this rotation and replace the ending Fell Cleaves with either double Steel Cyclone for enmity, double Inner Beast for single target damage and mitigation, or a Steel Cyclone > Inner Beast combination for additional Opener enmity and Mitigation during Pacification.

 

Why Overpower and not Tomahawk against a single target?

Overpower: 430 dmg x 5.0 multiplier x 2.7 defiance = 5805 enmity

Tomahawk: 475 dmg x 3.0 multiplier x 2.7 defiance = 3847 enmity

 

Considering the TP cost difference between Overpower (130) and Tomahawk (120) is only +10, I consider the 50% higher enmity gain to be more effective for the niche purposes of snap-gaining enmity to prep your Opener Rotation. Essentially, Tomahawk's only usefulness is panic-snapping fleeing mobs after Provoke. Though when possible, it is more beneficial to have Healer stack on you or you stack on Healer- in the case of aggro'ing mob groups entering late to a battle.

 

Boss Opener MT (Defiance - Minimum 2 Stacks)

Heavy Swing + Brutal Swing | Maim▲III + Bloodbath | Storm's Eye▲IV + Berserk▲V + Unchained |

Heavy Swing + Internal Release | Skull Sunder▲I + Vengeance▲II | Butcher's Block▲III |

Heavy Swing | Skull Sunder▲IV | Butcher's Block▲V + Deliverance + Brutal Swing |

Fell Cleave + Infuriate▲V | Fell Cleave |

 

Comments: To pull this combo off, you have to aggro the dungeon or raid boss with at least 10s remaining on your II+ Wrath stack. Again, optional Overpower for initial hate grab, but opening with Overpower is counter-intuitive to the purpose of this rotation. Which is, to deploy a full Berserk rotation before the boss uses its first fight mechanic. Like clockwork, most dungeon or raid bosses in Heavensward (Neverreap, Fractal, Thordan, Midas, etc) activate their first fight mechanic at roughly 30s after aggro. By entering the fight with two stacks of Wrath, it's possible to complete your opening Berserk rotation just before mechanics begin. So if you have to disengage target or dodge AoE's you'll do so while Pacified and not in the middle of your Berserk combo.

 

Note: If you are tanking a hard hitting boss, such as Onslaughter in M4, or attempting to build hate for a Hunt A or S rank, you can elect to remain in Defiance for the entirety of this rotation and replace the ending Fell Cleaves with either double Steel Cyclone for enmity, double Inner Beast for single target damage and mitigation, or a Steel Cyclone > Inner Beast combination for additional Opener enmity and Mitigation during Pacification.

 

 

 

Additional rotations for OTing, OT Opener, and DPS rotation can be found below:

Boss Opener OT (Triple Fell Cleave) (Deliverance - No Stacks)

Heavy Swing + Brutal Swing | Maim▲I | Storm's Path▲II |

Heavy Swing | Maim▲III | Storm's Eye▲IV |

Heavy Swing + Berserk▲V + Internal Release | Fell Cleave + Infuriate▲V | Fell Cleave + Raw Intuition▲I + Awareness |

Heavy Swing + Brutal Swing | Skull Sunder▲II | Butcher's Block▲III |

Heavy Swing | Maim▲IV | Storm's Eye▲V | Fell Cleave |

 

Comments: This I use pretty exclusively for raid bosses in which I am not the MT. More importantly, raid bosses where I have no desire to take hate. To accomplish this, I avoid opening with a Butcher's Block combo to allow the MT to build hate, opting instead for Storm's Path, though honestly if you want to open with Butcher's Block you can if you think you can avoid taking hate. Notice that unlike the previous two opener rotations, this one uses three Fell Cleaves instead of two. To accomplish this, you delay popping Berserk until after your third Heavy Swing and after immediately burning your first two Fell Cleaves using your prep stacks and Infuriate, sacrifice a defensive buff such as Raw Intuition or Vengeance for the extra stack needed to pop the third Fell Cleave at the end of your Berserk rotation. Make special note that in the OT rotation listed I popped Raw Intuition and Awareness instead of Vengeance. This is because Raw Intuition's cooldown matches Berserk's perfectly and will be again available for use in the exact same spot in your rotation every time. Vengeance's cooldown will not, and should be saved for the MT'ing combo where you can utilize the dps gain and mitigation effectively and then save Raw Intuition for the following Berserk rotation. Also important to note that because you delayed Berserk with the extra Heavy Swing, your Storm's Eye debuff will fall off before your third Fell Cleave if you do not refresh it as your second combo during Berserk like its shown above.

 

 

Repeat Damage Rotation Mid-Fight MT/OT (Triple Fell Cleave) (Deliverance)

Heavy Swing + Brutal Swing | Skull Sunder▲I | Butcher's Block▲II |

Heavy Swing | Maim▲III | Storm's Eye▲IV |

Heavy Swing + Berserk▲V + Internal Release | Fell Cleave + Infuriate▲V | Fell Cleave + Raw Intuition▲I + Awareness |

Heavy Swing + Brutal Swing | Skull Sunder▲II | Butcher's Block▲III |

Heavy Swing | Maim▲IV | Storm's Eye▲V | Fell Cleave | 5s

 

Heavy Swing | Skull Sunder▲I + Brutal Swing | Butcher's Block▲II |

Heavy Swing | Maim▲III | Storm's Eye▲IV |

Heavy Swing | Skull Sunder▲V | Fell Cleave | Butcher's Block▲I + Brutal Swing |

Heavy Swing | Maim▲II | Storm's Eye▲III |

Heavy Swing | Skull Sunder▲IV | Butcher's Block▲V |

Heavy Swing | Fell Cleave | Maim▲I + Brutal Swing | Storm's Eye▲II | REPEAT UNTIL BERSERK RECAST||

 

Comments: This builds upon the previous Deliverance Opener and continues the basic DPS rotation for WAR. Essentially, for maximum damage, alternate Butcher's Block and Storm's Eye combos, making sure to pop Brutal Swing whenever it is off cooldown. Why use your hate combo when you're not tanking? Because Skull Sunder has a higher attack potency than Maim, and Butcher's Block has the highest attack potency of all your combo finishers. By spamming Maim+Storm's Eye, you're losing out on DPS, and by using Storm's Path for DPS rather than utility, you are effectively gimping your max damage.

 

Always use Fell Cleave as soon as you reach five stacks of Abandon, especially when your next weaponskill adds another stack of Abandon. This will happen every other Storm's Eye/Butcher's Block rotation and always after using Maim or Skull Sunder as seen above. When your fifth Abandon stack falls at the end of your combo after Storm's Eye or Butcher's Block, you can postpone using Fell Cleave until after your next Heavy Swing, to profit from the extra 10% critical hit rate for that attack.

 

Use Berserk whenever it is available, but be sure to always properly prep your Berserk combo! Make sure your Storm's Eye accounts for your fourth Abandon stack. If Storm's Eye gives the second or third Abandon stack instead, repeat the Storm's Eye combo until you have sufficient stacks (IV+) to begin your Berserk combo.

 

 

 

As for Flash, use it if you wish, but it isn't recommended for WARs. Especially as it conflicts with better cross-class options. (Convalescence, Provoke, Awareness, Second Wind, Internal Release) While it uses MP for AoE enmity generation instead of TP, thanks to 3.0's Equilibrium WARs are no longer plagued by TP drain. If you find you're running out of TP quickly, the first step should be to reconsider the rotation you're using for enmity gain. Additionally, if you're finding you're actually having AoE enmity troubles as a WAR and you are using Flash, it might be the cause.

 

Flash Pros:

-Uses MP instead of TP.

-Can be used when Pacified. (WAR should not be hurting for enmity after completing a Berserk rotation, even in Deliverance.)

-Does not interrupt combo. (Steel Cyclone also does not though and generates way more enmity.)

 

Flash Cons:

-Activates Spell GCD, delaying combos which deal significantly more dps and enmity.

-Does not deal damage. This lowers WAR's dps output, party utility, and cannot be used for self healing.

-Cannot Crit and is not affected by damage buffs such as Maim, but is affected by Berserk. However, you'd never want to use Flash during Berserk because of Spell GCD.

-Generates 10% less enmity for WAR than it does for PLD thanks to Defiance.

-Smaller range & radius than Overpower and may require sacrificing frontal position against adds to hit all targets in range.

-Consumes a cross-class slot.

 

 

_________________________

I can think of only three scenarios in which to not burn Wrath/Abandon stacks. Otherwise, burn stacks as soon as you hit five of them depending on what you need:

 

Like you said, in most cases you can burn stacks as soon as you earn them. Especially Wrath, the stacks of which only increase your Parry chance by 10% and essentially are inconsequential. When in Deliverance, stacks of Abandon increase your Critical Hit Rate, so if the previous combo-finisher gained your 5th stack, you should hold Fell Cleave until after your next Heavy Swing so it benefits from the increased CHR and does not generate a stack therefor no penalization. Always blow the 5th stack before using your next stack-generating weaponskill, unless you're saving for upcoming Berserk rotation as discussed above in the rotations spoiler.

 

 

Hopefully that helps if you're a WAR and you're having enmity issues. ^^

Yeah, generally rotating between targets and dispersing dots and aoe has helped me avoid excessive tp usage in dungeons from Overpower. Granted, I never did really super difficult content as WAR, but the bit about holding FC until after you land Heavy Swing makes a lot of sense and is something I've reminded myself to do more consistently these days. In non dungeon content usually I would replace Flash with Awareness, if I needed to MT ever.