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Gegenji

The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales

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To the WHM healing me in Brayflox NM:

 

I understand that due to some concerns about low-level DF groups, you might want to concentrate on healing me as the Tank rather than throwing out some (ie any) DPS.

 

I also understand, due to certain clues, that you are at or above level 50, and probably not Jump Potioned, so you should have some experience in this game.

 

But when you are literally doing the Manderville while I'm tanking Aiatar, I can only conclude that you are taking the piss.

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To the WHM healing me in Brayflox NM:

 

I understand that due to some concerns about low-level DF groups, you might want to concentrate on healing me as the Tank rather than throwing out some (ie any) DPS.

 

I also understand, due to certain clues, that you are at or above level 50, and probably not Jump Potioned, so you should have some experience in this game.

 

But when you are literally doing the Manderville while I'm tanking Aiatar, I can only conclude that you are taking the piss.

 

can I ask if you told that healer to his or her face what you just wrote in here ?

 

My own little story : Bardam, me SCH, DRK, NIN & BRD

 

Apart from the DRK that, as a tank, takes damage, I had to content with a BRD in love with damage intake. I have never ran into a BRD that took so many damages, I mean from full down to 40% of his health in one shot, which, me being a SCH, made it hard on my mana management at that level I do not have either the full fairy help at that (I was on my lvl 67 class)

 

Anyway, after having to use my veil of saint new version, not once but twice, I finally asked the BRD why he was taking so much damages, him being a range it made no sense to me. His answer ? that he was not a range but a melee -range and he had to do so because of his Knock back.

 

Sure, by all means stay close but when a BRD takes more damage than a NIN and a DRK I kind of Wonder, to his benefit, he stood back and my life as a healer was way better, we finished without troubles and me without heartache as to whether my mana would be enough

 

Second story : lvl 70 dungeon last boss of Fist.

 

I had to use my Fairy theater on the tank, well guess what he was runing away from the teather, breaking it each time, first time I thought it was a mistake, but no, he was doing it on purpose, and his damage intake was astronomical. Finally told him that when he is teathered it is a good thing as the fairy heals him exclusively at least for a while. His answer : did not know the Fairy was main heal. I just shook my head and moved on. I mean, he was runing like opposite of my poor fairy.

 

True stories, makes life interesting but I can say this though. SCH nerf sucks, I am not even sure why they did that but heals were reduced, CDs increased and we got nothing to compensate that.

 

Eliana

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To the WHM healing me in Brayflox NM:

 

I understand that due to some concerns about low-level DF groups, you might want to concentrate on healing me as the Tank rather than throwing out some (ie any) DPS.

 

I also understand, due to certain clues, that you are at or above level 50, and probably not Jump Potioned, so you should have some experience in this game.

 

But when you are literally doing the Manderville while I'm tanking Aiatar, I can only conclude that you are taking the piss.

 

can I ask if you told that healer to his or her face what you just wrote in here ?

 

On the last boss? I suppose after that would be the best time for it if they didn't immediately gun it to the exit. Or you didn't yourself just to be away from the guy and move on with life. I could see either happening, really.

 

... I have seen this done myself, by the by. It's certainly frustrating that a healer would rather dance than, you know, put in a little more effort.

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To the WHM healing me in Brayflox NM:

 

I understand that due to some concerns about low-level DF groups, you might want to concentrate on healing me as the Tank rather than throwing out some (ie any) DPS.

 

I also understand, due to certain clues, that you are at or above level 50, and probably not Jump Potioned, so you should have some experience in this game.

 

But when you are literally doing the Manderville while I'm tanking Aiatar, I can only conclude that you are taking the piss.

 

can I ask if you told that healer to his or her face what you just wrote in here ?

 

On the last boss? I suppose after that would be the best time for it if they didn't immediately gun it to the exit. Or you didn't yourself just to be away from the guy and move on with life. I could see either happening, really.

 

... I have seen this done myself, by the by. It's certainly frustrating that a healer would rather dance than, you know, put in a little more effort.

 

Nope, up to the boss it was not that obvious, that he was runing away from the Fairy, but on the last boss ? oh my...I mean that was ...ugh...

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That tends to be how it goes, unfortunately. Despite how bad some PuG tales are, you usually zone in expecting things to go all right. So you might not notice some things right away unless it's noticeably impacting your experience. Heck, sometimes I've forgotten to put on Shield Oath due to the level adjustment but I'm spamming my enmity moves enough that I'm maintaining aggro so I don't notice it until someone tells me a few pulls in. :blush:

 

That's just a low key example of it, but stuff like healers ONLY healing or DPS being problematic (such as continuing to single-DPS in big groups or, almost at the opposite end, spamming AoE stuff with single and two-mob pulls) aren't always noticeable right away. Or DPS/Healers in bad or broken gear - it's far more noticeable on tanks since they'll be horrendously squishy (though that could also be assumed to them just not using their cooldowns). I've had experiences with all of them in some shape or form, and I usually don't really notice it right away. Too wrapped up in my own role a lot of the time. :lol:

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On the last boss? I suppose after that would be the best time for it if they didn't immediately gun it to the exit. Or you didn't yourself just to be away from the guy and move on with life. I could see either happening, really.

 

The WHM rushed straight for the exit, so I didn't even get a chance to go "yo what the hell". I decided to post the story here because I thought the claim that "Healers only heal, and dance the rest of the time" was hyperbole, not an actual thing that happened.

 

I mean, apart from that, the WHM was a pretty decent Healer when it came to healing. Didn't overheal much, didn't let me get too low, easily kept up with pulls, so on and so forth. I didn't want to get into a whole big argument about whether Healers should DPS in the middle of the dungeon, so I kept quiet.

 

But that Manderville. I don't know of a more effective way to say "I know I'm wasting your time, and I don't care."

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There used to be an excuse for the healing-only healers because cleric stance had a cooldown and swapping could possibly get the tank killed. (But then, is it really considered -that- much downtime?)

 

If they have time to go through emotes, they should be DPSing unless they're out of mana. Like, healer DPS was specifically adjusted so that they could have an easier time helping out without the "stress" of cleric stance making it scary.

 

...I miss my actual damage increase. That 5% buff is completely useless on my crossbar.

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...I miss my actual damage increase. That 5% buff is completely useless on my crossbar.

 

I don't even slot it on my bar. It's like... what's the default set to USE for Healer Role abilities? You have five slots and, like, six good abilities.

 

Personally, I'm running dangeresque without Esuna (which is only a problem in certain cases, really). So Protect, Largesse, Lucid Dreaming, Eye for an Eye, and Swiftcast. Though, I AM a SCH, so if I couldn't spread Eye, I'd probably swap that for Esuna just for those few situations where I need to remove a Doom or a poison effect or something. But that's six abilities jockeying for a position for doing healer-y things even before I look at improving my damage.

 

... Like, if they merged Cleric Stance and Largesse into a single ability, that might be nice. But they you'd have to figure out whether you're going to use it for that big heal or to eke out some more damage. And, given our horror stories here... our PuG healers will either use it solely for DPS, just healing so they can go back to dancing that much sooner, or not at all. :(

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Anyway, after having to use my veil of saint new version, not once but twice, I finally asked the BRD why he was taking so much damages, him being a range it made no sense to me. His answer ? that he was not a range but a melee -range and he had to do so because of his Knock back.

 

What did he smoke? Repelling shot doesn't deal any damage anymore...

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So, I've found a downside to AST Nocturnal sect being +15% to healing compared to the +10% of Diurnal or whatever.

 

And that's, as a SCH, seeing said AST stay in Nocturnal and we basically spend a good portion of the time just overwriting each other's shields. Rather than, you know, have shields AND regen. Because that would be useful. Is that extra 5% on all your personal heals really worth basically being a second SCH with your Aspecteds?

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So, I've found a downside to AST Nocturnal sect being +15% to healing compared to the +10% of Diurnal or whatever.

 

And that's, as a SCH, seeing said AST stay in Nocturnal and we basically spend a good portion of the time just overwriting each other's shields. Rather than, you know, have shields AND regen. Because that would be useful. Is that extra 5% on all your personal heals really worth basically being a second SCH with your Aspecteds?

 

That sounds dumb. Whenever I party with SCHs, I always switch to Diurnal. ...even when I was more comfortable with Nocturnal Sect. (4.0 actually flipped this for me and now I generally prefer regen-healing, but I get lazy and don't switch. ...and if there's a WHM, I sorta expect that I'm expected to be Noct in that setup.)

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Just ran a Wanderer's Palace Normal with a Paladin who:

 

  • Mass-pulled, and did not use any cooldowns or defensive abilities other than Shield Oath
  • Killed the critters delaying the Tonberry Stalkers, then lingered around in front of the Tonberry Stalkers as they stabbed him, as though he has no idea what to do when an untargetable enemy starts stabbing you
  • Used all his cooldowns at once upon aggroing the boss, including Hallowed Ground, Bulwark, Sentinel, and Convalescence at the same time (but curiously not Rampart, which never appeared throughout the dungeon)
  • Ran around killing the Tonberry adds in the final boss (which give the Tonberry King extra damage for his Everyone's Grudge attack)
  • Did not use Flash a single time in the entire dungeon, apparently relying wholly on Circle of Scorn for AoE enmity

 

I stayed on because the two DPS (RDM and MNK) were actually pretty good, doing high damage and staying out of all AoEs.

 

Still. How.

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So, I've found a downside to AST Nocturnal sect being +15% to healing compared to the +10% of Diurnal or whatever.

 

And that's, as a SCH, seeing said AST stay in Nocturnal and we basically spend a good portion of the time just overwriting each other's shields. Rather than, you know, have shields AND regen. Because that would be useful. Is that extra 5% on all your personal heals really worth basically being a second SCH with your Aspecteds?

 

That sounds dumb. Whenever I party with SCHs, I always switch to Diurnal. ...even when I was more comfortable with Nocturnal Sect. (4.0 actually flipped this for me and now I generally prefer regen-healing, but I get lazy and don't switch. ...and if there's a WHM, I sorta expect that I'm expected to be Noct in that setup.)

 

It is dumb and I don't really get why they're doing it.

 

I mean, isn't the lower overall healing bonus for Diurnal specifically because regen is really good passive healing, and it stacks with other regen? I mean, I'm fairly certain I've had two Medica IIs on me in a double-WHM group. So if you stay in Diurnal with a WHM, I don't think it's nearly as "bad" as staying Nocturnal with a SCH. Only the shields get overwritten... and only if it's a"stronger" shield. If it just doesn't happen to be strong enough... well, you've wasted, what, half of the "healing potential" of that Nocturnal-Aspected Heal or Adlo/Succor?

 

It's just super counter-productive.

 

... Also I think Yian ran into the PLD version of the "I don't have Unleash yet!" DRK I mentioned a couple posts back. :lol:

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Had a Healer yesterday in expert constantly running ahead of me (while jumping too) and pulling mobs repeatedly. I let them tank a few seconds thinking they'd get the message but nope, kept rushing ahead and even pulling bosses.

 

Thankfully, when I said a simple "Calm Down *Healer name*" they stopped early pulling. So I guess it wasn't all bad.

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So, I've found a downside to AST Nocturnal sect being +15% to healing compared to the +10% of Diurnal or whatever.

 

And that's, as a SCH, seeing said AST stay in Nocturnal and we basically spend a good portion of the time just overwriting each other's shields. Rather than, you know, have shields AND regen. Because that would be useful. Is that extra 5% on all your personal heals really worth basically being a second SCH with your Aspecteds?

 

That sounds dumb. Whenever I party with SCHs, I always switch to Diurnal. ...even when I was more comfortable with Nocturnal Sect. (4.0 actually flipped this for me and now I generally prefer regen-healing, but I get lazy and don't switch. ...and if there's a WHM, I sorta expect that I'm expected to be Noct in that setup.)

 

It is dumb and I don't really get why they're doing it.

 

I mean, isn't the lower overall healing bonus for Diurnal specifically because regen is really good passive healing, and it stacks with other regen? I mean, I'm fairly certain I've had two Medica IIs on me in a double-WHM group. So if you stay in Diurnal with a WHM, I don't think it's nearly as "bad" as staying Nocturnal with a SCH. Only the shields get overwritten... and only if it's a"stronger" shield. If it just doesn't happen to be strong enough... well, you've wasted, what, half of the "healing potential" of that Nocturnal-Aspected Heal or Adlo/Succor?

 

It's just super counter-productive.

 

... Also I think Yian ran into the PLD version of the "I don't have Unleash yet!" DRK I mentioned a couple posts back. :lol:

 

People tend to generalize too much. There are instances where having both in the same stance can only beneficial. So GENERALLY is better not to have both with the same type of skills but is not a rule of thumb to follow all the time no exceptions, you know, just me though

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I'm really, really getting tired of all the bots in PvP...

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I'm really, really getting tired of all the bots in PvP...

You and me both. Screenshot, report their names. SE bans in waves.

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People tend to generalize too much. There are instances where having both in the same stance can only beneficial. So GENERALLY is better not to have both with the same type of skills but is not a rule of thumb to follow all the time no exceptions, you know, just me though

 

Only with Diurnal and WHM. Being in Nocturnal with a SCH is like having two SCH's try to heal with the same faeries in a raid. Their abilities do not stack and in the case of Noct Sect it actively overwrites the SCH's shields. There is no net gain to be had there. It's just two healers fighting and having to watch the party even more closely so when they throw out a shield it doesn't coincide with their partner, resulting in wasted MP. Doable in premades but next to impossible in pug groups. At least with Diurnal your Regen STACKS with that of a WHM so there's no inherent conflict there.

 

I don't know why so many AST's absolutely refuse to leave Noct while a SCH is in play but it's always annoying to me. Especially since you often come off as the 'bad' one if you try to ask them to switch stances. At least when you're paired with another SCH there's an unspoken understanding that either you trade off Succors/Adlos or you let one person handle it while you focus on other things. Every Noct Sect AST I've been paired against just fights me over who has the bigger shield peen.

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I double pull in experts, and only die if the healer is dpsing instead of healing. If that happens then I single pull for the rest of the run. TBN into quietus into DA DP / DA AD spam is redonk strong when you have six or more mobs.

 

That being said, dps who don't aoe are worse and somehow even more common. Or dps who don't focus down summoners in kugane. Any self-respecting SAM will always have TP hovering at 100-200 with a torrent of gokens and kyutens.

 

Leveling roulette is nice and relaxing though. You meet a lot of lv16-35 sprouts who are just thrilled to be running something for the first time and still enthralled by the newness of ARR. Some vets harp on about the overly forgiving baby's first mmo design of xiv but that ensures its staying power. Especially once people get to Heavensward and the feels train kicks into high gear

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I double pull in experts, and only die if the healer is dpsing instead of healing. If that happens then I single pull for the rest of the run. TBN into quietus into DA DP / DA AD spam is redonk strong when you have six or more mobs.

 

That being said, dps who don't aoe are worse and somehow even more common. Or dps who don't focus down summoners in kugane. Any self-respecting SAM will always have TP hovering at 100-200 with a torrent of gokens and kyutens.

 

I haven't actually tried tanking in the experts yet, but part of that is me being afraid the freebie AF3 won't cut it anymore now that people have geared up. I should try to give it a chance...

 

The bolded part makes me crazy. I've gotten used to having mark macros on all my roles' hotbars so I can mark them if the tank does when I'm healing, and to mark them when I'm the tank. It feels like people have forgotten that most of the summon abilities can be stunned. And if of the not-stunnable variety, I do expect people to focus them down one by one, as per some of the lv70 dungeons.

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I double pull in experts, and only die if the healer is dpsing instead of healing. If that happens then I single pull for the rest of the run. TBN into quietus into DA DP / DA AD spam is redonk strong when you have six or more mobs.

 

That being said, dps who don't aoe are worse and somehow even more common. Or dps who don't focus down summoners in kugane. Any self-respecting SAM will always have TP hovering at 100-200 with a torrent of gokens and kyutens.

 

I haven't actually tried tanking in the experts yet, but part of that is me being afraid the freebie AF3 won't cut it anymore now that people have geared up. I should try to give it a chance...

 

The bolded part makes me crazy. I've gotten used to having mark macros on all my roles' hotbars so I can mark them if the tank does when I'm healing, and to mark them when I'm the tank. It feels like people have forgotten that most of the summon abilities can be stunned. And if of the not-stunnable variety, I do expect people to focus them down one by one, as per some of the lv70 dungeons.

 

You can run roulette dailies once you hit 70 for free tomes, and every PVP Frontline run win or lose is still worth 50 tomes. That's how I was capped at 2000/2000 even before I finished the MSQ and unlocked the i310 vendors

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I haven't actually tried tanking in the experts yet, but part of that is me being afraid the freebie AF3 won't cut it anymore now that people have geared up. I should try to give it a chance...

 

Well, if people can't look at your gear and tone it down some (especially if you let them know)... that's more on them than you, I think. Worse come to worse, Ala Mhigo iLevel syncs... so you could run that a few times for some verity and the i200 dungeon gear.

 

... but yeah. Poor target prioritization gets me too. Even discounting Summoners, if the DPS is going all out on a different target than you're focusing on, they can rip it off you before you know it.

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Actual good news for once: I was doing a Main Scenario Roulette, and zoned into Castrum Meridianum.

 

First thing I noticed was that about half the party were sprouts, including both Tanks and the other Healer. Second thing I noticed was that all of them were watching the opening cutscene.

 

When the mission proper started, everyone just kind of hung around awkwardly at the beginning, not moving forward. The non-sprouts did the jiggly "we're ready to go, Tanks please start moving, we don't want to be in front of you aggroing enemies" dance.

 

After about thirty seconds, I asked: "Everyone know what to do here?"

 

One of the Tanks said "Negative".

 

Since none of the other non-sprouts said a word in chat, I assumed I was going to be the one explaining the dungeon. So I did, starting with "pull as much as you feel comfortable with".

 

This turned out to be single pulls. Nobody complained. The Tanks were kind of squishy when they tried double-pulling; I checked their gear, and they were in the i90 AF sets, so they're at least competent enough to do Job quests. Probably just needed to work on cooldown rotation.

 

I called out where the disposal chute you had to go to after the first boss was. I explained how the enemies will drop explosives we have to plant on ceruleum pipes. I pointed out the cannons that most groups use to AoE down large pulls, and warned that they were kind of fragile, so don't bait enemy AoEs there. I explained the Livia boss fight.

 

Through it all, only one of the Tanks ever responded, but it was always appreciative and positive. (I'm pretty sure they weren't bots, because another of the sprouts helped another find the disposal chute in chat. Capitalization and complete sentences and all.)

 

Through it all, we waited for cutscenes. And when we got to Livia, I saw five Castrum Meridianum map achievements pop up.

 

We cleared easily, with only a single death (me; entirely my fault, since I got too greedy with Holy). Two sprouts (not including the positive Tank, who just went "grats" and left) thanked me. Got three commendations.

 

I just feel so happy that at least a few new players can experience the shitshow of CM in a positive way. I do feel bad that chances are Praetorium will not be as forgiving, if they get the usual speedrun group.

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I think I quoted my Trial roulette today pretty succinctly in an LS:

 

[18:12][1] That feeling when you realize you need to do Caster LB on the tear in Chrysalis because your SAM melee DPS is running around trying to soak meteors like a tank.

 

I seriously watched the guy run PAST the tear and towards one of the falling meteors instead. I don't even know.

 

Also, got Hullbreaker NM for my 50/60 to lazy-level BLM. Got ANOTHER SAM, but this one decided to do a different tank tact and pull EVERYTHING on the island right before the last boss. Got the tank and himself killed, and we only got out of a full wipe because I kited everything around while the healer rezzed the tank and healed me a little with each pass while I kept aggro with Swiftcasted Flares until the tank had peeled off enough of the mob and killed it that he wouldn't just drop dead again.

 

Is it Idiot SAM Night or something?

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I feel so awful. I've been trying to get a grasp of how to tank, To shake things up seeing as I've mained DPS my entire life in every MMO I've ever played. Wanted to run a Level Roulette to see how far it would take me from 28 in one go.

 

Get Halatali. I IMMEDIATELY let the party I got know, that I am new to tanking, and I am apologizing in advance, I get a 'ur good' and 'kay', so I figured they are okay with it, and just want an easy roulette.

 

Queue shenanigans.

 

I struggled to maintain aggro on just about every pull. I don't know if I just don't have the rotations down, or if it was because I was undergeared or proportionally that much weaker than the rest of them [who were all likely 60+ outside of the dungeon], a WHM, PUG and RDM.

 

Then I suddenly have a fit of unstable internet service, get disconnected after the second boss, and disconnected when the final boss was at 7%.

 

Needless to say, I feel like I was most certainly one of the worst tanks they've seen in a long time, and I want to apologize to them. Though I am unsure if they would ever see this. Ugh.. I didn't think it'd be THIS hard. I knew Tanking was not a cake walk, but.. Fudge. I need to get better.

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