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+--- Thread: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales (/showthread.php?tid=9312)
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RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Telluride - 08-04-2015
(08-04-2015, 06:12 PM)Gegenji Wrote: Grind-crafting is such a losing policy right now and it irritates me since I'm a level and a half away from 60. Adamantite ore is 2k apiece, you need 5 for one nugget, along with a Darksteel Ore (1.2k-ish) and five Fire Crystals (100 each). The nugget is currently selling for 9k. So, in bulk, you're losing over around 2.5k gil per nugget you make, if someone doesn't undercut the market even more. Doesn't sound like much, until you realize you're losing about a quarter mil on a full stack - if every one succeeds. If it fails? Welp, you've burned away 12k gold on that failed nugget.
Wee.
With Adamantite, the price remains high because Miners have to harvest it as a collectible to get Red Scrips, which means less of the ore is hitting the market, and thus the price hovers around that 2k point right now.
Thing is, almost no other ore from the expansion areas is profitable at all. Darksteel and Gold - regular old gold - ores are constantly selling at higher prices than Titanium and Hardsilver ores.
Lately, I've made MORE gil selling the skins that my BRD and MNK retainers are bringing me than I have selling actual ores.
The market and the apparent lack of demand or any real need for 90% of the stuff that 50+ gatherers can harvest are problems for both gatherers and crafters both.
The craft/gather grind, as both a time and money sink, is approaching levels of those crappy freemium smartphone games, and the change of Red Scrip rewards today has done very, very little to alleviate it.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Aaron - 08-04-2015
That moment when Eorzea suffers from a great depression lol
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Kellach Woods - 08-04-2015
have you seen how they handled end-game?
if that shit ain't enough to make you depressed congrats.
why am i even trying to get everything to 60 at this point.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Melodia - 08-05-2015
This thread and most of the comments attached to it, are most of what I makes me fail to even bother logging in anymore.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/3fuahu/at_what_point_is_someones_performance_unacceptable/
Yes, everyone should be trying their best but damn it, when did this game change from, oh, I don't know...a game into something akin to a work assignment. No one in this thing is my employer, spouse, or anything that resembles an authority figure. So when someone wants to lecture and yell at me about me "not parsing enough" (and yes, insert sniveling voice there....I intended it as so) it turns me off. I pay for the game. I am doing the best I can, and so are others.
If people actually knew how to offer advice rather than "You suck noob! Go git gud or kill yourself" then maybe the lower dps players would improve. But when someone approaches me (a paying damn player....my rl money going into the game) like this, I want to quit because it's ridiculous. "Yur wasting my timez!" is what I hear in reply. I get it if people are actively trolling and not even trying to win, but the difference in time needed to complete an instance from people who are trying but not superpro gamers(trademark pending) versus elite hall of fame level static players, is actually pretty damn minimal in the grand scheme. What else do you have planned in the game that is so time critical that a few extra minutes would destroy such plans? If your answer is anything besides "Not a whole lot to be honest" then maybe your time planning ought to be refigured. No one player is so important that they ought to be lecturing and scolding other DPS folks who fail to meet their precious number requirements. I've gotten so sick of seeing this phenomenon lately that it makes nauseous to even log in anymore.
"Your numbers suck. Your gear sucks. Your [insert whatever the hell you want here] sucks."
Translation: "You aren't good enough in MY book."
Well YOUR book sucks. And makes the game suck.
Just my vent. Which is what I think this thread is for. I feel better now.
TL; DR: This isn't a damn job interview. It's a video game of fake pixels and imaginary items. Get over your elite crap, lay off the less than stellar players and (god forbid) relax and have fun.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Gegenji - 08-05-2015
(08-05-2015, 08:17 AM)Melodia Wrote: "Your numbers suck. Your gear sucks. Your [insert whatever the hell you want here] sucks."
Translation: "You aren't good enough in MY book."
Well YOUR book sucks. And makes the game suck.
I'd just straight up ignore them. The only time I really cared wholeheartedly about my "numbers" and my rotation and all that nonsense was when I was an endgame raider in WoW. You know, with the Heroic instances where you had to kill a boss in five minutes or he'd flip out and murder everyone. Outside of that? As long as stuff is dying and we're progressing without anything overly stupid going on (healer refusing to get out of Cleric Stance, NIN running off to pull, BLM solely using Ice spells), I'm fine.
If there's someone parsing a 4-man dungeon, then the only reason they should be bothering is to improve their OWN skills to aid their assumed Savage static that they're supposedly a part of. Not to get on the case of whatever random players they end up with doing some random roulette dungeon. And hell, using parsers isn't ALLOWED by the ToS if I recall - so all the more reason for them to just shut up about it.
I've been lucky enough to avoid the parse-holes (hee), but if I ever had one get on me, I'd do one of three things:
1.) Ignore them and their useless numbers.
2.) Tell them to shove it since we aren't their raid static.
3.) Initiate a votekick and, if they're being enough of a pain, report them for openly using a parser.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Melodia - 08-05-2015
(08-05-2015, 08:25 AM)Gegenji Wrote:(08-05-2015, 08:17 AM)Melodia Wrote: "Your numbers suck. Your gear sucks. Your [insert whatever the hell you want here] sucks."
Translation: "You aren't good enough in MY book."
Well YOUR book sucks. And makes the game suck.
If there's someone parsing a 4-man dungeon, then the only reason they should be bothering is to improve their OWN skills to aid their assumed Savage static that they're supposedly a part of. Not to get on the case of whatever random players they end up with doing some random roulette dungeon. And hell, using parsers isn't ALLOWED by the ToS if I recall - so all the more reason for them to just shut up about it.
I've been lucky enough to avoid the parse-holes (hee), but if I ever had one get on me, I'd do one of three things:
1.) Ignore them and their useless numbers.
2.) Tell them to shove it since we aren't their raid static.
3.) Initiate a votekick and, if they're being enough of a pain, report them for openly using a parser.
You have restored some of my faith in this game with this post. *hugs*
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Aaron - 08-05-2015
(08-05-2015, 08:25 AM)Gegenji Wrote:Or you can do what I do, if they're not the tank (because 9/10 I am) just bring the adds over to them and say "Lets see your parser save ya ass now(08-05-2015, 08:17 AM)Melodia Wrote: "Your numbers suck. Your gear sucks. Your [insert whatever the hell you want here] sucks."
Translation: "You aren't good enough in MY book."
Well YOUR book sucks. And makes the game suck.
I'd just straight up ignore them. The only time I really cared wholeheartedly about my "numbers" and my rotation and all that nonsense was when I was an endgame raider in WoW. You know, with the Heroic instances where you had to kill a boss in five minutes or he'd flip out and murder everyone. Outside of that? As long as stuff is dying and we're progressing without anything overly stupid going on (healer refusing to get out of Cleric Stance, NIN running off to pull, BLM solely using Ice spells), I'm fine.
If there's someone parsing a 4-man dungeon, then the only reason they should be bothering is to improve their OWN skills to aid their assumed Savage static that they're supposedly a part of. Not to get on the case of whatever random players they end up with doing some random roulette dungeon. And hell, using parsers isn't ALLOWED by the ToS if I recall - so all the more reason for them to just shut up about it.
I've been lucky enough to avoid the parse-holes (hee), but if I ever had one get on me, I'd do one of three things:
1.) Ignore them and their useless numbers.
2.) Tell them to shove it since we aren't their raid static.
3.) Initiate a votekick and, if they're being enough of a pain, report them for openly using a parser.
"I've done that every time my PUG gets one of those assholes. I always get comms before I leave the dungeon.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Cato - 08-05-2015
I hold the firm belief that parsers bring out the worst in people. It's why I really hope that the developers take a tougher stance against such things but I doubt that'll happen because most people now know that so long as they don't discuss it in-game they can get away with using them.
This has shifted FFXIV's culture to the point where more and more people have begun to use a parser - which is exactly what happened with Wow and eventually led to increased toxicity within the community.
I think it's fair to expect other players to do their best but so long as they're doing just enough to get by then there's really no reason to hound them relentlessly. If content is tuned to be tackled with each player dishing out 500 DPS then does it really matter is one guy is dishing out 450 and someone else is pulling 800? The end result is still the same - the content is cleared.
The exception to this is during fights specifically tailored as a DPS race such as Bismarck but even then a bit of friendly advice is more likely to be taken into account over a harsh criticism.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Saravahn - 08-05-2015
To be fair, I can somewhat understand the frustration on the other side... the side of the person bitching about people not pulling there weight. HW is full of DPS checks, both soft and hard.
The most recent one for me? The Aery, last boss. Running my DRK through (my 4th 60) and the DPS can't be assed or ... for lack of a better term... good enough to kill the prices (the jail things).
It's not a hard fight, and not a hard concept. If you're unable to pull out the dps needed to down that price before whoever is stuck in it is killed... then you really need to reassess what it is you're doing with your job.
However, I do agree. A more friendly approach to such things is generally far more effective than the "toxic" one.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Cato - 08-05-2015
The thing is, players who ignore mechanics and dish out poor DPS are likely to continue doing so irregardless of the presence of a parser. We've reached a point where even players who dishing out more than enough damage in a dungeon are being targeted because they're not performing at the highest possible level.
As in...the sort of level people would expect from Alexander Savage. It's quite silly - but again, that didn't stop people having similarly lofty standards for random groups back in WoW. I can understand people doing it if they create their own group through the party finder (and therefore handpick who joins and who doesn't) but in a randomly formed group through the party finder? It's bizarre.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Saravahn - 08-05-2015
I understand and agree, but in the linked reddit post... I fail to see what could be considered lofty. -Maybe- the "A DPS that parses 500+ level 56+" part... but even then, that's hardly lofty thinking.
Otherwise, that entire post came off as someone saying "I really just want to be able to run with people that are capable of doing their jobs," which, in all honesty... is the same thing being said by a large majority of the people in this thread... parser or not.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Melodia - 08-05-2015
(08-05-2015, 09:56 AM)Graeham Wrote: We've reached a point where even players who dishing out more than enough damage in a dungeon are being targeted because they're not performing at the highest possible level.
Yeah, this was the main point of my post. This is the problem lately and it's getting crazy. I got yelled at once for not doing higher DPS in the library. The other two said how silly that was, but it was like, "Wha-? This is still just a roulette correct?"
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Cato - 08-05-2015
For what it's worth, I agree that people should be striving to do their best. Yet the Reddit post (to me, at least) reads very much like a witch hunt and something that serves only to fuel yet more animosity within the community. Though I could go off on a tangent about how many people use social media as a means of attacking whoever or whatever happens to have frustrated them on any given day.
The vast majority of my dungeon runs are pleasant. In the event that I get the occasional bad apple I strive to offer them advice and if they don't listen then I cut my losses and either vote to kick them or take my leave - whichever proves to be the more efficient option.
So perhaps I'm just super lucky and/or patient but most of the chaos I see in the duty finder generally comes from those with unreasonable standards or those who brag about their DPS in content that they overgear considerably.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Gegenji - 08-05-2015
That's basically true. Most of my issues are usually minor things that I just buck up and deal with and complain about later. Like a tank that kept moving bosses out of the Shadow Flares I was putting down with Swiftcast. Or folks running off before buffs are up. Annoying but more or less tolerable.
But there's always a couple occasions that are extra bad and stick in your mind. You don't remember all the average runs where you went in, killed stuff, and left. You remember either the ones where something awesome happened (kiting Chimera to death as a NIN in Cutter's Cry) or something awful happened. Still, it's nice to get that sort of frustration off your chest after it happens!
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Leggerless - 08-05-2015
(08-05-2015, 08:17 AM)Melodia Wrote: This thread and most of the comments attached to it, are most of what I makes me fail to even bother logging in anymore.
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/3fuahu/at_what_point_is_someones_performance_unacceptable/
Yes, everyone should be trying their best but damn it, when did this game change from, oh, I don't know...a game into something akin to a work assignment. No one in this thing is my employer, spouse, or anything that resembles an authority figure. So when someone wants to lecture and yell at me about me "not parsing enough" (and yes, insert sniveling voice there....I intended it as so) it turns me off. I pay for the game. I am doing the best I can, and so are others.
If people actually knew how to offer advice rather than "You suck noob! Go git gud or kill yourself" then maybe the lower dps players would improve. But when someone approaches me (a paying damn player....my rl money going into the game) like this, I want to quit because it's ridiculous. "Yur wasting my timez!" is what I hear in reply. I get it if people are actively trolling and not even trying to win, but the difference in time needed to complete an instance from people who are trying but not superpro gamers(trademark pending) versus elite hall of fame level static players, is actually pretty damn minimal in the grand scheme. What else do you have planned in the game that is so time critical that a few extra minutes would destroy such plans? If your answer is anything besides "Not a whole lot to be honest" then maybe your time planning ought to be refigured. No one player is so important that they ought to be lecturing and scolding other DPS folks who fail to meet their precious number requirements. I've gotten so sick of seeing this phenomenon lately that it makes nauseous to even log in anymore.
People do offer advice. It's done in-game and in the form of multiple guides such as one, two, three, four, five, and six (not so much a "guide," but it offers advice anyway), excluding Youtube, Reddit, and random tidbits of information spread out everywhere. Telling someone to "git gud" however does not qualify as proper advice, but it does qualify them for the "elitist jerk" achievement (acquisition rates increased with the 3.05 patch, last I checked).
I would say screw parsers and other third-party programs used with the game, but they have good intentions when theorycrafting formulas/concepts. (Example 1 and Example 2). Used to make a person feel like a complete failure though? Not a good reason. The only time I talk parser numbers with someone is when they asked me about the rotation they're using; I then check if they're using food, pots, and their opener/base rotation as they're significant factors. Outside of that? Maybe comment on why they aren't using a certain skill (e.g. Ninja not using Shadow Fang/Mutilate), but that's about the extent of it.
(08-05-2015, 09:56 AM)Graeham Wrote: The thing is, players who ignore mechanics and dish out poor DPS are likely to continue doing so irregardless of the presence of a parser. We've reached a point where even players who dishing out more than enough damage in a dungeon are being targeted because they're not performing at the highest possible level.
Isn't this a true enough statement. The days of 2.0 and Wanderer's Palace speed runs are returning to 3.0. Hilarious because its stupid, yet detrimental to the community because it happens anyway.