(07-29-2016, 03:34 AM)Valence Wrote: Sure, it could be ambiguous. I still would love to have Sounssy's opinion on the matter and what they wrote though. There might be more behind those two quotes.
I lit the fire but I suspect she's busy with RL because I've not heard back!
Quote:I'm assuming nothing. I actually said that kind of Hearer was going to be crafty about it if they wanted to get away with it... Odds stacked in their favor or not. You seem only to base yourself on the widespread prejudices around them in the commonfolk, especially geared toward the Autumn Wars, but the people they would have to convinced or be cautious of is not the commonfolk that will just follow whatever they say out of reverence.
It's the damn Padjals. As I said, it would be a bit disingenuous to think that padjals can't see through a crooked Hearer, especially after some time of abuses and exploits.
The vast majority of Padjal that exist aren't in villages or towns - they walk the forest, and don't necessarily come into contact with anyone. The Padjal we see in Gridania are the exception, rather than the rule. In fact, before becoming the Elder Seedseer, Kan-E-Senna spent most of her life completely isolated from Gridanians at large - when she returned to take up the mantle, no one knew who the hell she was. They didn't know who she was because she, like most Padjal, rarely spent time in settled places, and are most often in the wood communing with the Elementals. And there aren't very many of them in the first place, so not only are the majority mucking around in the woods, the majority don't amount to very many at all.
So the odds of them just happening across such a situation are slim, unless the Hearer in question slips up and actually manages to anger the Elementals with what they're doing.
There are very, very few checks and balances on Padjal and Hearers. They have immense social status and trust in a society where their only limiters are few in number and unlikely to be direct witnesses to whatever transpires. There are very few checks and balances on Conjurers (specifically ones working in Gridania under the auspices of the Stillglade Fane) in general. It's one of the most fundamentally frightening things about Gridania as a society - their society works, and is fair and benevolent...if everyone involved is trying to do the right thing and has the best interests of those around them in mind. But only if.
Quote:Again, padjals. I'm not saying padjals don't necessarily have prejudices. I'm saying they would probably get mad at anyone even trying to lie their way out of what they Hear about the Elementals will.
Why would they suspect the Hearer in question? If the Hearer pulls this in front of a Padjal, that's a really stupid Hearer and probably never should have made it through training. Again, the vast majority of Padjal just aren't around to witness these situations. They're in the forest, trying to keep the Elementals from eating everyone, and trying to protect the Hedge. They're not in villages, in towns, and there is such trust accorded to both Padjal and Hearers that unless there is truly blatant evidence to the contrary, I think it would be unlikely for a Padjal to disbelieve a Hearer's word in the first place. Why would they double check, unless the Hearer was (again) stupid and either pulled that shit in front of them where the Padjal could Hear what was actually said, or unless the instructions the Hearer related to the Padjal were so off-base that it was obvious something wasn't right.
Even if someone managed to find a Padjal to complain to, and the Padjal checked up on the Hearer, all the Hearer would have to do is say, "Oh, that's not what I meant at all. Sigh. I should have explained it better." Or, "That's not what I said at all. Sigh. They never understand us properly. I'll go fix it."
LiadansWhisper Wrote:Well, I think that's a logical fallacy to assume that the few instances of Hearers we see ingame (that's what? One? Two of them?) necessarily equates to all of them always acting alone and being alone. That was my point.
I'm not sure why. Charity pointed out the one instance where we see multiple Hearers dispatched together, and it's a situation where there's basically about to be a Greenwrath, which one Hearer alone would be unlikely to stop. So, I agree that in big situations, there would probably be more than one, but that does not eliminate the likelihood of a Hearer in an isolated village running the place like a fiefdom. It doesn't mean that corrupt Hearers can't exist, or even thrive.
Quote:I don't see why like any other entity holding any power they would not you know, speak to each other, debate and discuss their plans, and especially discuss about what they Heared to compare their interpretations and all.
And I don't see why a corrupt or dishonest Hearer would tell the truth at one of these meetings, if they do occur.
Edited to Add: I would have replied earlier but I just got back to my computer, and it's impossible to edit anything on my phone and it drives me nuts. ._.