(11-26-2016, 03:31 AM)Virella Wrote:I wasn't saying that it was specifically a dark knight either, just someone doing things very much like a dark knight does...and I provided a few totally legitimate reasons why that could've been. We know for a fact that there were individuals using dark arts of some effect BEFORE ishgard's dark knights timelinewise.Â(11-26-2016, 03:06 AM)Rahferu Wrote:You don't see Gridanian Ninjas, or Doman Dragoons. Their fighting styles, cultures, religion ect is a very specific things, bound to a history to a specific area. Dark Knight is sadly enough one of those jobs as well.(11-26-2016, 03:01 AM)Virella Wrote:(11-26-2016, 02:37 AM)Rahferu Wrote:The thing is, it is confirmed in lore, so there is no speculation left.(11-26-2016, 01:47 AM)R Wrote: You're taking it a little too far in the regard that there's the capability out there. Saying that there -must- have been Dark Knights (named or otherwise) out there before Ishgard simply because of tyranny and the like is ridiculous. Not to mention the lore book goes into detail about the Dark Arts being something that was picked up on much later than the first Dark Knights beginning their long, perilous duty of service.Actually,
My post about adapting the teachings and mentality of the Dark Knight to other cultures and sort of threading the line is just that: adaption and the like. You shouldn't make up lore to suit your character. R'khan, for example, adapted what he learned of Dark Knights to that of what he knows of Ul'dah, beginning his own service in that regard and even beyond that: to Eorzea as a whole.
But yeah, you should definitely stay away from spitting your own thoughts, scribblings, and the like as true blue lore.
I'm pretty sure that nothing I said about that being a possibility due to the factors of injustice, political unrest and people having access to learn about dark arts prior to Ishgard was untrue. I think you're misinterpreting me here.
That's NOT the same as making up lore. There is a difference between using reasoning FROM THE LORE to justify/explain why your character has a tie to something--which you did, yourself.Â
The lore doesn't provide direct examples of what YOUR character did, or what many other people's characters did. You make a character and try to fit the storyline somewhere within the lore boundaries. Just because something isn't 100% proven in stone doesn't mean it isn't, or couldn't be, canon--given how SE actually gives us a lot of room to wonder and fill in the blanks.Â
You also said earlier on in this thread that we aren't sure WHERE dark knights originally came from--and I'm saying that the materials and conditions for a dark knight to function and exist in some form were very much around before Ishgard was.Â
The "true blue" lore tells us that there was suffering, access to the dark arts, and that people were victimized by severe injustice and villainy in other places pre-ishgard.
I am allowed to speculate, too--and so is everybody else, especially when I bother to research and justify my claims--which are TOTALLY based on the lore here. I'm not saying YEAH THAT WAS TOTALLY THE CASE, no questions asked....I'm saying it definitely seems likely, and here's a bunch of reasons why. This is part of RP and how people make characters. I fail to see how that's ridiculous.
Furthermore, I am NOT the only one in this thread to have suggested that it could've happened in other places and at other times. I think I've actually re-iterated what other have said and provided why my character personally has a tie to the concept of dark knights too.
Might just be me, but people speculate about the grey areas, or things we don't know. But I might just be wrong ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
There's confirmed lore saying that it didn't or couldn't possibly have happened anywhere else in some form, started in Ishgard, that's it, no debate?
Because that's not what I'm seeing said in the rest of this thread though. :/
Surely you can speculate on it, but it just as absurd of... for example, Buddhist Monks out of random just popping up in Medieval Europe, without said Buddhist Monks travelling there. Or Western Knights suddenly, with all their rules, believes and habits suddenly out of nowhere popping up in Australia.
Lots of the jobs in FFXIV have a specific background to them, and that to me is the beauty of this setting. It isn't a mix match, it is very diverse in cultures, religion ect. All cities, races have their own background, and thus specific fighting styles were created from a certain need, religion or culture. Because why would Limsa need Dragoons for example? They really don't. It is really just the Ishgardians who needed them!
Surely, there is evil and oppression everywhere, but it is explicate stated it was a counter measure against the Halonic Church corrupt religious priests. Effect and cause. Take that out of account, and you have a very wonky character in my opinion. You have no base any more for them, and merely the skillset, thus once more, in my opinion, kinda just... ignoring the rich background we have for jobs like that. Use the lore, try to fit your character in, like make them have travelled to Ishgard, got invested with the plight of the people, make them hate the corrupt individuals of the Halonic Church, let them become a Dark Knight.
Once more, there's working with the lore, and simply plucking the skillset from said jobs without wanting to make the 'sacrifice' to fit your character in it because you don't happen to like it. And I happen to be one of those roleplayers who simply won't roleplay it instead of breaking it. Because in my opinion, if your character's background doesn't fit with the canon? I see that as lore breaking. But that is once more, my opinion.
Anyhow, people should roleplay what they want, and each to their own
I actually see quite a few similarities between Warrior lore and DRK lore, too...but take that as you will. It's a matter of opinion.
And having something non-canon means it breaks lore directly. Honestly, if there's nothing in the lore that indicated something isn't possible or doesn't exist, then yeah, I think that it COULD be canon.
People can agree to disagree. But just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean it isn't (or couldn't be) possible. I draw the connection BECAUSE I felt as though my character had a sort of "darkside" (which I had in place before I ever knew anything about dark knights tbh) and a similar outline.Â
I ended up completing the dark knight questline and liking it BECAUSE I felt it was similar to my character. I felt as though it fit with his backstory and all that.
And I don't see that connection as lore-breaking, either. I am actually considering having him become a bona-fide dark knight because of what I have learned. Potentially. But if people in this community are really so opposed to me drawing these paralells even with reasoning then I won't do it.
I'm also kind of new ish to the game. :/ so bear with me.