Hydaelyn Role-Players

(06-24-2015, 01:54 AM)Tseren Wrote: [ -> ]There's no point in "looking equal" when we still have so many legislative, medical, social, mental health, education, employment, family, and public safety needs ect. in which we are being treated unequally.

This is the kicker, and why the "but you don't need to segregate yourselves!" posts are so damaging over the long run. We're still not equal yet - not in the eyes of the law, or the general populace, or the insurance companies, or the medical professionals, or in so many other areas of life that are essential for healthy living. Because we are not yet equal, we need safe spaces where we can feel like we ARE equal, or at the very least among people who can understand our unique situations.

Removing these safe spaces does not magically somehow make us more equal in the eyes of so many people who see us as freaks and monsters. It only makes us invisible, which itself is a problem of its own and is not at all a solution to any of the above listed problems. Thus, these safe spaces are here to stay, at least for awhile yet, until the day no LGBTQA individual is considered special or remarkable in any way because it is simply an accepted fact of life that people are different.

Let me repeat that - until no one on the whole planet considers an individual in the alphabet soup to be unusual or worthy of note, we are still not yet equal. The end goal of equality is for your sexual orientation or gender identity to simply be a universally accepted facet of your person, one about as noteworthy as your hair or eye color (though much more difficult to change). It should be abundantly obvious to anyone who lives in this modern world that we are nowhere near that goal. So let it be. We still have a lot of work to do, and creating these safe spaces isn't hurting anyone.

I'm not saying its hurting anyone but I still maintain people won't have many issues just interacting with the community at large.

It's true that Balmung is generally pretty good about this. But there's still that small chance that you'll run into bad apples that can ruin your day. I don't blame anyone who fears that sort of backlash for looking into options that minimize the chances of that occurring to almost nothing.

It's particularly prudent for individuals who suffer from some level of social anxiety, which I imagine is quite common among LGBTQA people who have suffered abuse for their differences. No matter how many times you tell them "it's okay, the community's cool", the fact remains that it's a server full of tens of thousands of people and you cannot absolutely guarantee that all of the people you run into are going to be as cool with this stuff as others.

(06-24-2015, 02:28 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not saying its hurting anyone but I still maintain people won't have many issues just interacting with the community at large.

It's not about interacting with the community at large. It's about the opportunity to interact with the community we're already part of. I don't think anyone is expecting conflict with or trouble from others. While I think one person mentioned having had an issue in the past, the vast majority spoke of nothing but positive in-game experiences. And that's fantastic to hear! Especially as my wife and I have both had some rough experiences in other gaming communities. It's just another reason as to why I'm so excited to be a part of this one.

What it is about, however, is OOC conversation and support as well as a way to find RP connections. Just like the very first post said.

It's really not that much different from creating a LS for an Au Ra tribe, or scoundrel type characters, or any other of the LS's available. It's simply a way to help members of a particular niche to find friends who have a similar background.

Not 'everyone' is legitimately nice. I'm really and genuinely glad to hear that your experiences have been positive, but not everyone has had the same.
I've been nearly outted by people I trusted (who were not LGBTQA) on purpose and to blackmail me. It took me threatening legal action for it to stop.
I've had a RP partner stop talking to me entirely when they found out.
I've had another RP partner make snide comments about friends of mine (who are out) TOWARDS me that were very offensive, not knowing that I also was in that same predicament, but closeted. 
I've seen people call my closest friends anything from 'it' to 'he-she' to any other number of very transphobic things, and they'd absolutely refuse to call him by his preferred gender pronouns. 

All of these things happened on this very server, from people who are or have been on this server. No, not everyone is legitimately nice and some of us now have severe trust issues alongside it. Not everyone is the same, and not everyone will respond to hurtful things the same way. For one person, what they view as water off a duck's back may be a straw that broke the camel's back to another. You may be able to brush it off, but it may send another person into a spiraling depression.

(06-24-2015, 02:35 AM)Zyrusticae Wrote: [ -> ]It's particularly prudent for individuals who suffer from some level of social anxiety, which I imagine is quite common among LGBTQA people who have suffered abuse for their differences. No matter how many times you tell them "it's okay, the community's cool", the fact remains that it's a server full of tens of thousands of people and you cannot absolutely guarantee that all of the people you run into are going to be as cool with this stuff as others.

Even with no threat of any harm of mistreatment, I still carry a lot of my social anxiety over from the real world. It's pretty ridiculous when you think about it. I like getting to know a handful of characters that I may develop friendships with IC and IRL, while also potentially meeting characters my own may end up getting involved with over time.

Edit: To anyone who may have missed it, a linkshell has been created here by AquiziTC

So I have a question, if you are LGBT (which I am, I might add), what does that have to do with RP?

Gay RPers? Do you only RP gay characters? I can see an LS for maybe figuring out how to RP an LGBT character for people who OOCly aren't, but I'm not sure how sexuality would change your RP. I RP characters of lots of different situations, some of which I am not personally.

(06-24-2015, 03:04 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: [ -> ]So I have a question, if you are LGBT (which I am, I might add), what does that have to do with RP?

Gay RPers? Do you only RP gay characters? I can see an LS for maybe figuring out how to RP an LGBT character for people who OOCly aren't, but I'm not sure how sexuality would change your RP. I RP characters of lots of different situations, some of which I am not personally.

It would vary from player to player. I imagine many LGBT people play LGBT characters. I do, personally, because it comes naturally to me. I'm pretty exclusively into men IRL, but I tend to play bisexual characters for the sake of being a little open.

Being connected to LGBT characters and players could be helpful to someone who isn't queer IRL, but wants to play a character that is.

Some people might just want a safe space where they can get advice, or unwind with others who they can talk to about related subjects with less anxiety.

I'm personally not experienced with transgender characters in roleplay. I've rarely ever seen a transgender character, and I imagine that can be very challenging to do. I'm sure a network of allies could be a good resource.

To each their own, really. Some may not see a point and want to participate, while others seemingly have wanted a network like this for some time.

(06-24-2015, 01:03 AM)Graeham Wrote: [ -> ]That doesn't make it any less frustrating though - especially when those characters end up being portrayed as walking stereotypes. A character shouldn't be defined by their sexuality as far as I'm concerned - it should just be something that they happen to have alongside everything else.

Graeham's bisexual but it rarely comes up in role-play because he doesn't try and sleep with everything that moves. If people want to make their character's sexuality a major point of their character then that's fine - but they shouldn't be surprised if other people find it off-putting. I feel the same way about straight characters too, so it's not a matter of discrimination.

First paragraph: yeah, sure, 110% agree.

Second, though: not everyone interested in romance is looking for a quick fuck. I'd even wager that very few are. Can we please stop with this silly stigma? It makes kittens cry.

(06-24-2015, 02:16 AM)Tseren Wrote: [ -> ]The opportunity to write with characters who might share a comon experience that my character has. Sexual attraction may be part of the LGBT alphabet, but it's not the only way we relate to one another. Especially if you, or your character, is under one of the other letters. It's also often nice to play with someone who's player (and possibly character) understands your characters gender identity, challenges and direction.

It's entirely possible to find, as I've done it through other formats plenty of times.

The thing is, in Eorzea, no one cares if you're gay. It's a sexually liberated society outside of some Ishgardian headcanons. Experiences outside of gender identity are likely to be non-existent because there isn't any issue to begin with.

Now if your character falls under the T, I can definitely understand that, though sadly they are a rarity and even fewer actually understand what being transgender is like in the first place, much to my personal chagrin.

(06-24-2015, 03:04 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: [ -> ]Gay RPers? Do you only RP gay characters?

Actually... yes, I do. Sapphism is kind of my thing because a. we have enough good stories about men as-is and b. it's my comfort zone, what I identify most with.

Interestingly enough, a good chunk of female characters in the FFXIV RP community are straight. It's legitimately difficult to find a decent date on any given day. Not even joking; it's truly an anomaly of modern roleplay.

At no point did I suggest that everybody looking for romantic themes within their role-play only do so for the sake of a sly e-shag. The stigma, however, exists as you pointed out and it unfortunately exists for quite a few reasons.

A lot of role-players do focus too heavily upon finding their character a romantic partner. They can do as they please, of course, but it can be pretty damaging to those caught in the crossfire when things go wrong and drama inevitably erupts.

I've seen romantic stuff done exceptionally well. I've also seen it done incredibly poorly to the point where friendships and entire guilds have ended up being torn apart in the aftermath.
 
I've also seen a lot of role-players completely cease interaction with anybody other than their character's lover once they've hooked up with which can, in turn, have a pretty negative effect upon the stories of other characters linked to those individuals.

That's my penny's worth anyway!

(06-24-2015, 03:23 AM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote: [ -> ]Actually... yes, I do. Sapphism is kind of my thing because a. we have enough good stories about men as-is and b. it's my comfort zone, what I identify most with.

Interestingly enough, a good chunk of female characters in the FFXIV RP community are straight. It's legitimately difficult to find a decent date on any given day. Not even joking; it's truly an anomaly of modern roleplay.

Really? I don't have that experience at all. I just find that between my two characters (A Gay Miqo'te and a Bisexual Elezen) the way relationships happen is a lot differently.

It's very straightforward with Male/Male relationships, both sides know what they want and just say it.

With the female ones it has been decidedly different, relationships are not directly sought, people just meet, and become friends, and things grow from there. It's actually a very interesting dynamic, and meshed with my own personal experiences out of game. I assure you there are plenty of female characters out there who are not against such things, its just much more deeply buried than the gay/hetero stuff splattered all over the quicksand (sometimes literally, the janitors there really earn their pay)

(06-24-2015, 03:04 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: [ -> ]So I have a question, if you are LGBT (which I am, I might add), what does that have to do with RP?

Gay RPers? Do you only RP gay characters? I can see an LS for maybe figuring out how to RP an LGBT character for people who OOCly aren't, but I'm not sure how sexuality would change your RP. I RP characters of lots of different situations, some of which I am not personally.

Personally, I only RP gay characters... Well, I have ONE character and he is gay. And that's about the only thing my own sexuality has to do with my character. Other than being a tall demon boy with anime hair, of course, which I totally am IRL as well..

*cough*

(06-24-2015, 03:04 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: [ -> ]So I have a question, if you are LGBT (which I am, I might add), what does that have to do with RP?

Gay RPers? Do you only RP gay characters? I can see an LS for maybe figuring out how to RP an LGBT character for people who OOCly aren't, but I'm not sure how sexuality would change your RP. I RP characters of lots of different situations, some of which I am not personally.

I echo this sentiment. As I've previously stated, as a altaholic I RP all kinds of flavors, that range from personality, to battle classes played, to social statuses, and yes, to sexual orientation to. As of the current account, I've RPd a lesbian (she died at the beginning of the year), a gay, an asexual, and even an homophobic.

I cannot find that good thread of RP advice about OOC bleed that was made last year, but one good advice it held there, was to avoid making characters that are too close to how we are IRL. It is a very good magnet for drama that only long-time veteran roleplayers would know how to avoid. Especially if you are new to RP, my advice is to start from something that is to the other side of the spectrum compared to your real self. Though of course, it has to be a character you like, so I guess that if you dislike straight characters, then you're stuck with LGBT-only characters. But so far of the many LGBT RPers I've met, only one hated straight characters, so it's a rare occurrence.

Again, RL qualities, traits, statuses, whatchamacallit should not raise fences in what you can RP and who you can RP with. The moment you try to make it a Focus, people will start to worry. I think what lures drama in LGBT LSs is that they are self-labeled LGBT LSs, catering to a certain sexual orientation, so people go there thinking the focus is sex. If I made a Left-handed LS or a Vegan LS or a Feminist LS (yes, being gay or vegan or feminist to me is the same as being left-handed, it's just a part of you, not a key factor or your soul essence), people would come to them thinking the activities and talk to be had in them would be focused on those labels. After all, you don't go to the Tennis Club to play soccer or talk about comic books.

And as for the need to stand out until there is absolute acceptance from every single man on Earth, I'd like to repeat a post that I've shared about feminism in a old thesis I made back years ago (yes, I'm a woman and I'm against feminists, shocker!). There cannot be absolute equality for as long as we have something different. To be perfectly equal, we would need to look something like this:



Should Vegans feel discriminated for as long as there is any carnivore animal on Earth? I hate to do things that may make people dislike me, and I've had to go through therapy before to accept that there will always be someone who doesn't like me. It's true, people with different sexual orientations are still on the beginning when it comes to conforming and being accepted by the majority, but I'd like to think that this is not the case for this RP server. There may be someone out there who dislikes them still, either OOCly, or in my case, ICly (just one character. He's extremely traditionalist and disapproves any interracial, interclan, or non-straight relationships.). But it's the part of the variety of the human species, and I believe that discrimination is definitely not a problem on Balmung. Hell, in some cases, there is an issue of lack thereof of discrimination (Duskwight fellows, preach it).

So yes, join a LGBT LS if you want to have chatter/activities catered on that. But if you're looking for one (addressing people in general, not the OP as I know he made a LS now) as a shield against abuse or discrimination OOC, know that this is a non-issue, as many have already stated.

I don't mind if people want to make their RP exclusive to certain people. I'm not one of them, but I've met people who, yes, only wants to RP with other gay people, or a miqo'te who only RP's with other miqo'te, etc...

It's their choice, and people can RP whatever they want. Everyne doesn't have to RP with everyone if they don't feel like it.

(06-24-2015, 03:40 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: [ -> ]It's very straightforward with Male/Male relationships, both sides know what they want and just say it.

I've always found this interesting on a personal level, noticing how this works since I was a wee queer lad just learning of the world of gay clubs and the like. I know of many relationships that turned out to be stable, wonderful, long-lasting, and committed that started out as "oh we met at a club/bar/party" which is shorthand for "we were drunk, thought each other hot, slept together, and found out we liked each other."

I mean of COURSE this happens with straight men and women, too. It's just slightly funny to me how often it seemed to happen when I was younger. I'm a bit too old to care about the scene these days to keep tabs on it.

On a more serious note, like... it's -slightly- offensive to read some of the stuff. "The only reason this gets brought up is to bang" (paraphrasing). Yes and no? I mean for some people sure, and some others no. For me it's a little deeper than that? I mean, look if I wanted to RP for sex I know of places I can go do that, easily. But my MMO characters have ALWAYS been different than that. They've always started as just "I like the look of this person and this class," and then they have grown from there into REAL characters with motivations and a life, mind, and muse of their own. I immerse myself in them and enjoy playing the game through their eyes and mind.

So I've RP'd a lot of stuff with Tenrilaux, and it didn't even have to all be with other players. It's just him living in Eorzea as an adventurer and some people call him a hero yeah sure whatever but still. Romance RP to me, is an extension of that life. I've done it all ways: explicit, fade to black, heterosexual life-partners (thanks, tvtropes!), forever alone/bachelor, etc. It is probably one of the most interesting ways to get a DIFFERENT kind of character growth, if it's done correctly.

I will never knock anyone's flavor of RP, it's generally not how I work, but like.. being out there as an LGBT player and character is for things beyond just "let's get my junk wet." Granted yes the bearing in THIS world setting is purely for a relationship bent, but that is simply because Eorzea is so open regarding sexuality. Haven't seen much regarding gender fluidity, but that may change over time.