Hydaelyn Role-Players

In my opinion it's not helpful.

Enforce seperation and fragmentation of people and you will end up with a seperated group. I don't mind LGBT exclusive groups, but those groups are in that regard enforcing exclusivity/seperation from the so called 'majority / Normal Joes', and therein enforcing said seperation, safe spaces or not.

I find it far more progressive not to make the Gender/Sexuality question into something that needs seperation. The more this type of thinking is enforced, the more we fuel the Idea that 'LGBT' people are different and belong in their own seperate group.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole wish of the LGBT community to be accepted at large without the necessity to explain themselves or their sexual prefferences to the world?

If so, why enforce the tension / seperation from the very 'Majority' you wish to be accepted by and part of?

Let me give another (and probably more problematic example);

It's akin to creating a 'Black only' or 'White only' FC/Group. The only difference is that you switch sexuality with race as in terms of differences. And the Idea itself of a 'Black' or 'White' FC/Group is already repulsive in itself for me, and should be for you too.

I think of seperate LGBT communities in the same regard. Only that instead of taking skin as the denominator, you take sexuality.


The Idea should be in inclusiveness/unity in all things human, no matter what the topic is.

It's only normal for people to seek out others with common interests or background. It's not about seperation, so there's no need to try and make it about that.

But being in an LGBT themed FC/LS doesn't magically prevent people from communicating outside these circles. There isn't some impenetrable wall. A lot of you here are vastly overstating the supposed harm caused by a focused social group. It's silly.

Many people in this thread have stated very good reasons for wanting a group like this, and some of you are telling them, "Well, your comfort and feelings of safety harms the community." Come on now.

(06-23-2015, 03:02 PM)Aaron Wrote: [ -> ]Though im not one of them, there's plenty LBGT people on Balmung,  there's even a FC called Yuri dedicated only to lesbian (If that's what you are).

But ask around,  everyone is friendly about it lol

I have yet to run into a person who even cares if you are gay on Balmung. Were all behind a computer or TV screen who cares.

(06-26-2015, 07:05 AM)Leomoon Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-23-2015, 03:02 PM)Aaron Wrote: [ -> ]Though im not one of them, there's plenty LBGT people on Balmung,  there's even a FC called Yuri dedicated only to lesbian (If that's what you are).

But ask around,  everyone is friendly about it lol

I have yet to run into a person who even cares if you are gay on Balmung. Were all behind a computer or TV screen who cares.

1. I have definitely ran into bigoted individuals in MMOs and FFXIV is no exception to that.

2. The game is more than just the game. Someone touched on this in a prior post, but a lot of people build rich and deep social connections with the people they play an MMO with. When I log in, I'm logging in to greet friends and family - people who I want to share my hopes, my fears, my daily gripes, my happiness with. Heck, some of these "MMO friends" even flew across the country to attend my real life wedding. I married one of my "MMO friends". So yeah, I care about who the person is behind the keyboard and mouse. I want to make sure they're in a place where they are comfortable. I worry about them when they're going through trouble.

I know you want to believe that everyone is happy and accepting, but they're not. And many LGBT folk have suffered a great deal and don't want to take the chance of joining a guild only to see "that's gay" or "fag" thrown around as casual words; they don't want to see people making rape jokes; they don't want to have to worry about talking about their boyfriend or girlfriend; they don't want to be afraid to speak in vent/mumble/ts/whatever because their voice doesn't match their gender. Maybe they just want to be sure they're in a place where they're not alone, maybe guarantee that there are at least some people around who will understand first-hand what they are going through, so that they can receive and give support.

Those are the reasons I helped run an LGBT safe space FC while I was playing this game. They are perfectly legitimate reasons for someone to seek out a like-minded FC. There's nothing exclusionary about it, and we shouldn't feel the need to knee-jerk defend Balmung. It's got nothing to do with attacking Balmung players.

(06-26-2015, 06:59 AM)Nako Vesh Wrote: [ -> ]But being in an LGBT themed FC/LS doesn't magically prevent people from communicating outside these circles. There isn't some impenetrable wall. A lot of you here are vastly overstating the supposed harm caused by a focused social group. It's silly.

This, exactly this. I don't really understand how a LS is 'seclusion.' It's like.

OK EXAMPLE:

How many of you guys have a linkshell for your static? Ok, great. Do not have/talk to any other friends? Of course not! 

"That's different it's practical not social!" I hear.
BULLSHIT!

Yes, there are some statics and raid groups that are entirely business. I do not feel, however, that it is the norm. Sure there is a goal there, but it's still a social circle EXCLUDED to some (read: people not in the static, generally).

That is not to say I am excluding anyone, the + I add to things involve things like allies and the like.

This is not an FC, of which you can only be in one of. There's actually already an FC for that as I know, NAWTY. And while not RP, they're a pretty cool group of people (they live in the same ward as my FC's house). Linkshells do not have the 'only one' restriction. If you already have 8? Then yeah sure I guess there's a conflict there, but I have four! WHAT?! FOUR SOCIAL GROUPS HOW DARE I!

I dunno, the 'you're secluding yourself' argument...
I'm sorry, it just sounds dumb.


Edit: cleaned up language. Post now with less swearing!

As part of the alphabet soup my opinion is that you are allowed to create your own safe spaces, especially when there is such desire for it.

I personally do not have need or want for it but that does not mean others share my experiences. As stated in this very thread, some people had poor things happen in their RP circles over it. Even if we might say there -are- quite a few alphabet soup characters or players, does not mean some people will not be dicks about it.

In other news. SCOTUS just announced their decision (5-4) that bans on same sex marriages are unconstitutional. squeeeeeee NEXT TO THE OTHER quiltbag issues! We have so many still!

(06-26-2015, 06:59 AM)Nako Vesh Wrote: [ -> ]But being in an LGBT themed FC/LS doesn't magically prevent people from communicating outside these circles. There isn't some impenetrable wall. A lot of you here are vastly overstating the supposed harm caused by a focused social group. It's silly.

Many people in this thread have stated very good reasons for wanting a group like this, and some of you are telling them, "Well, your comfort and feelings of safety harms the community." Come on now.

This, a million times. I do not see why joining a linkshell with like-minded people for the peaceful purpose of making friends/connections, should be made into something that is going to affect the community around us. People might be able to do a lot, that's true - but a small gathering of people in a game.. I'd wager we're not going to cause great harm.

(06-26-2015, 10:46 AM)AquiziTC Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2015, 06:59 AM)Nako Vesh Wrote: [ -> ]But being in an LGBT themed FC/LS doesn't magically prevent people from communicating outside these circles. There isn't some impenetrable wall. A lot of you here are vastly overstating the supposed harm caused by a focused social group. It's silly.

This, exactly this. I don't really understand how a LS is 'seclusion.' It's like.

OK EXAMPLE:

How many of you guys have a linkshell for your static? Ok, great. Do not have/talk to any other friends? Of course not! 

"That's different it's practical not social!" I hear.
BULLSHIT!

Yes, there are some statics and raid groups that are entirely business. I do not feel, however, that it is the norm. Sure there is a goal there, but it's still a social circle EXCLUDED to some (read: people not in the static, generally).

That is not to say I am excluding anyone, the + I add to things involve things like allies and the like.

This is not an FC, of which you can only be in one of. There's actually already an FC for that as I know, NAWTY. And while not RP, they're a pretty cool group of people (they live in the same ward as my FC's house). Linkshells do not have the 'only one' restriction. If you already have 8? Then yeah sure I guess there's a conflict there, but I have four! WHAT?! FOUR SOCIAL GROUPS HOW DARE I!

I dunno, the 'you're secluding yourself' argument...
I'm sorry, it just sounds dumb.


Edit: cleaned up language. Post now with less swearing!

odd newbie question, whats a static?  I am assuming its not random background noise being picked up by your receiver static lol

on topic-ish, i still don't get why people care about anyone's sexual orientation.  If your not sexually attracted to someone your not going to have sex with them and they are not going to have sex with you, so why the hell is any other detail relevant? 

if someone gets up in your face over their orientation/religion/politics, the mistake they made was getting in your face.  that is just rude and deserves retaliation, the subject matter is moot at that point.  However if their not in your face about it, why would you even care what people do in their private life?

sorry if i rambled been up looong time with no caffine lol

(06-26-2015, 12:05 PM)Thorgar Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2015, 10:46 AM)AquiziTC Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2015, 06:59 AM)Nako Vesh Wrote: [ -> ]But being in an LGBT themed FC/LS doesn't magically prevent people from communicating outside these circles. There isn't some impenetrable wall. A lot of you here are vastly overstating the supposed harm caused by a focused social group. It's silly.

This, exactly this. I don't really understand how a LS is 'seclusion.' It's like.

OK EXAMPLE:

How many of you guys have a linkshell for your static? Ok, great. Do not have/talk to any other friends? Of course not! 

"That's different it's practical not social!" I hear.
BULLSHIT!

Yes, there are some statics and raid groups that are entirely business. I do not feel, however, that it is the norm. Sure there is a goal there, but it's still a social circle EXCLUDED to some (read: people not in the static, generally).

That is not to say I am excluding anyone, the + I add to things involve things like allies and the like.

This is not an FC, of which you can only be in one of. There's actually already an FC for that as I know, NAWTY. And while not RP, they're a pretty cool group of people (they live in the same ward as my FC's house). Linkshells do not have the 'only one' restriction. If you already have 8? Then yeah sure I guess there's a conflict there, but I have four! WHAT?! FOUR SOCIAL GROUPS HOW DARE I!

I dunno, the 'you're secluding yourself' argument...
I'm sorry, it just sounds dumb.


Edit: cleaned up language. Post now with less swearing!

odd newbie question, whats a static?  I am assuming its not random background noise being picked up by your receiver static lol

on topic-ish, i still don't get why people care about anyone's sexual orientation.  If your not sexually attracted to someone your not going to have sex with them and they are not going to have sex with you, so why the hell is any other detail relevant? 

if someone gets up in your face over their orientation/religion/politics, the mistake they made was getting in your face.  that is just rude and deserves retaliation, the subject matter is moot at that point.  However if their not in your face about it, why would you even care what people do in their private life?

sorry if i rambled been up looong time with no caffine lol

The mistake is viewing someone as an "Other" based on sexual preference, regardless of intent to bone said person.  Bigotry and discrimination are not all in your face violence.  A lot of it is small things like "LBGT only FC and linkshells are discriminatory!" or small verbal cues that let slurs into casual conversation among gamers, or having to worry at all about being 'out' around strangers for any reason, whatsever. Cultural and sociatal discrimination is a death by a thousand cuts, when it's not death by one big act of violence. It's the sort of thing people say "but lol I didn't mean it!" and you're expected to just nod along and say "ok" with. Excusable the first time. But after the next hundred, thousand times? It wears and scrapes away are your basic humanity.

It's why safe spaces and LGBT specific linkshells and FCs are important.  They're a safe space run and moderated by people who understand and have experienced what someone who sits in the "normality" of heterosexual cis-gendered life will never understand completely, because it's not their life.

(06-26-2015, 12:05 PM)Thorgar Wrote: [ -> ]odd newbie question, whats a static? 

A group of people who meet on a scheduled basis to clear conent. Often the harder content needs gear from earlier content, and it only drops once per week.

It's static, in that they try to avoid changing members, so that the same group of people gets all the loot, and can use that loot to clear later dungeons.

None of my business what any of y'all do, but let me give an example of an exclusive group that isn't looked down on:

Groups for a specific theme. For instance the Red Wings. Other than 1 person, the only RPers we have currently are from the Flames (and the one who isn't works for them). Why? cause that's the theme of the FC.
I haven't heard anyone riling about the exclusivity of that? 

It doesn't stop us RPing with people outside of the group
It doesn't stop us communicating with people outside of the group
It doesn't stop us Raiding with people outside of the group
Should I go on?

apply that same theory to the LGBT circiles.... oh look, there is no issue with them.

(06-26-2015, 12:20 PM)Hammersmith Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2015, 12:05 PM)Thorgar Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2015, 10:46 AM)AquiziTC Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2015, 06:59 AM)Nako Vesh Wrote: [ -> ]But being in an LGBT themed FC/LS doesn't magically prevent people from communicating outside these circles. There isn't some impenetrable wall. A lot of you here are vastly overstating the supposed harm caused by a focused social group. It's silly.

This, exactly this. I don't really understand how a LS is 'seclusion.' It's like.

OK EXAMPLE:

How many of you guys have a linkshell for your static? Ok, great. Do not have/talk to any other friends? Of course not! 

"That's different it's practical not social!" I hear.
BULLSHIT!

Yes, there are some statics and raid groups that are entirely business. I do not feel, however, that it is the norm. Sure there is a goal there, but it's still a social circle EXCLUDED to some (read: people not in the static, generally).

That is not to say I am excluding anyone, the + I add to things involve things like allies and the like.

This is not an FC, of which you can only be in one of. There's actually already an FC for that as I know, NAWTY. And while not RP, they're a pretty cool group of people (they live in the same ward as my FC's house). Linkshells do not have the 'only one' restriction. If you already have 8? Then yeah sure I guess there's a conflict there, but I have four! WHAT?! FOUR SOCIAL GROUPS HOW DARE I!

I dunno, the 'you're secluding yourself' argument...
I'm sorry, it just sounds dumb.


Edit: cleaned up language. Post now with less swearing!

odd newbie question, whats a static?  I am assuming its not random background noise being picked up by your receiver static lol

on topic-ish, i still don't get why people care about anyone's sexual orientation.  If your not sexually attracted to someone your not going to have sex with them and they are not going to have sex with you, so why the hell is any other detail relevant? 

if someone gets up in your face over their orientation/religion/politics, the mistake they made was getting in your face.  that is just rude and deserves retaliation, the subject matter is moot at that point.  However if their not in your face about it, why would you even care what people do in their private life?

sorry if i rambled been up looong time with no caffine lol

The mistake is viewing someone as an "Other" based on sexual preference, regardless of intent to bone said person.  Bigotry and discrimination are not all in your face violence.  A lot of it is small things like "LBGT only FC and linkshells are discriminatory!" or small verbal cues that let slurs into casual conversation among gamers, or having to worry at all about being 'out' around strangers for any reason, whatsever.  Cultural and sociatal discrimination is a death by a thousand cuts, when it's not death by one big act of violence.  It's the sort of thing people say "but lol I didn't mean it!" and you're expected to just nod along and say "ok" with.  Excusable the first time.  But after the next hundred, thousand times? It wears and scrapes away are your basic humanity.

It's why safe spaces and LGBT specific linkshells and FCs are important.  They're a safe space run and moderated by people who understand and have experienced what someone who sits in the "normality" of heterosexual cis-gendered life will never understand completely, because it's not their life.

i can understand the need for a safe place to relax with other like minded people.  I am not what most term normal, having grown up in the Bible Belt i have seen some REAL idiocy and it baffles the hell out of me.  I cant judge one person by another's actions no matter their race/color/creed/orientation.  Though if you dress in a manner that says your there to start shyte or your a danger to my family, expect a cautious reception lol.

I don't really buy into the idea that 'outsiders' cannot understand the issues that many people endure based on their gender identity or sexuality. Today's society has quite a lot of extremist elements that aggressively ridicule or discriminate against people perceived as being 'normal' and there is a very nasty mentality - all too common within the LGBT community - that 'straight white men' cannot be discriminated against.

I fear that exclusive LGBT chat channels risk becoming a breeding ground for such things, or at the very least just an echo chamber for people to intentionally or unintentionally push such an agenda.

With that in mind ensuring that at least one of the channel moderators is willing to stamp out such things as soon as they emerge is very important in my eyes.

(06-26-2015, 12:26 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2015, 12:05 PM)Thorgar Wrote: [ -> ]odd newbie question, whats a static? 

A group of people who meet on a scheduled basis to clear conent. Often the harder content needs gear from earlier content, and it only drops once per week.

It's static, in that they try to avoid changing members, so that the same group of people gets all the loot, and can use that loot to clear later dungeons.

ok, cool thank you for clearing that up for me.  interesting system.