Hydaelyn Role-Players

I like to think some of our RP characters are NPCs that *could* exist in Hydaelyn's lore, sure. But RPing as an actual existing NPC is on the list of no-nos for me. It's almost breaking that line when you RP for NPCs like Momodi even. I get it, everyone's best friends with her.

Does it work? It sure can. Given this is an MMO though and often the community does come first, it wont work for the majority of the general public. Privately and not forced on others, by all means, go for it.

(02-07-2017, 10:11 AM)Virella Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-07-2017, 09:29 AM)Aegir Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-07-2017, 09:01 AM)Tyndles Wrote: [ -> ]2. If they are trying to SERIOUSLY RP as that character? My character will treat them as someone delusional, touched in the head or drunk. Because thats the only way it would make sense.

I keep seeing people post this in every thread this is brought up. I find this reaction to be mean spirited and contemptuous. And it doesn't seem to be in the spirit of role play. It's weird where people draw the line between "okay, I'll pretend your character is/has this, but if you say they are/have this I'm going to be derisive and try to make you feel bad.

Welllll not to play devil's advocate here, but I assume people don't come in here just for praise and people, like myself for example, will avoid them at any cost, and we are forced to use that IC to still let it make sense.

Because I really don't want my characters to know (certain) NPCs, because it really shatters my immersion.

There's quite a bit of NPC roleplayers who shove their RP down your throat and start screaming if you don't accept it. Everyone's allowed to go 'no' on whatever type RP. Whether it is just casual tavern RP, super serious events, ERP, or RPing with NPCs; if people don't want to, they should be allowed to step out as well.

And really, I think that excuse of "its a drunkard/weirdo trying to re-enact x character' isn't really that bad. I don't even bother with it, unless they engaged me directly. I just u-turn, or ask them to leave.

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Same applies to all the voidsent and primals RP'ers... Why am I not allowed to murder them?! It's clearly stated that they must die and must be hunted! They're destroying Eorzea!

Calling them touched in the head, drunk, or acting as a mjor figure is your ONLY safe option in those regards as... I can't murder the voidsent and/or primal threats since the scions and THM guild are clearly slacking. It's rather a kindness considering Thancred might have slept with my character in my head cannon but in the Thancred RP'ers head cannon she doesn't exist. Yes, some people rp knowing the scions or other major figures as well.

The only other option is to not RP with people whom RP these kind of characters as Virella has stated.

In the end, it has nothing to do with your choice, but the other person's choice to accept your head cannon or not.

(02-07-2017, 09:29 AM)Aegir Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-07-2017, 09:01 AM)Tyndles Wrote: [ -> ]2.  If they are trying to SERIOUSLY RP as that character?  My character will treat them as someone delusional, touched in the head or drunk.  Because thats the only way it would make sense.

I keep seeing people post this in every thread this is brought up. I find this reaction to be mean spirited and contemptuous. And it doesn't seem to be in the spirit of role play. It's weird where people draw the line between "okay, I'll pretend your character is/has this, but if you say they are/have this I'm going to be derisive and try to make you feel bad.

I'm pretty sure anyone who does this is not trying to hurt anyone, but instead offer a diplomatic alternative to rolling over belly up and accepting that there's one more of five Sultanas running around Ul'dah. The problem with role-playing in public places NPCs is that there's also more than one copy. So if you were to say, "Weren't you just shopping here yesterday?" They'd quickly say "No, I wasn't!" Or something to that effect. There within lies one of the biggest problems with not role-playing original characters. Not everyone's on the same page, so insisting someone has to deal with sorting out "Oh I'm talking to Minfilia C today, that was Minfilia A yesterday" isn't very fair. At the end of the day, no one's obligated to roleplay with anyone, period. And that's a good thing, honestly.

(02-07-2017, 10:50 AM)Nodem Wrote: [ -> ]Same applies to all the voidsent and primals RP'ers... Why am I not allowed to murder them?! It's clearly stated that they must die and must be hunted! They're destroying Eorzea!

Damn, but I wish any voidsent character of mine would live in utter fear of entering cities (or be threatened and have to flee in case they were discovered.) That would be cool. I would totally roll one up if I got more rp threats than just blatant ooc eye rolls.

Back on topic...

Roleplaying as a major NPC really trips up when it comes to interacting with others due to people being at all points in the msq. Said NPC might be around, might be [spoilers], or may have [other spoilers]. You can't account for all of these, it's impossible. If someone further in the story line shouts out that said NPC can't possibly be there due to [spoileroo], they just ruined things for new players.

Now minor NPCs such as Yellow Moon, Fufulupa, or some other background character could be fun. Nothing major happens to them that could be considered a problem when it comes to interacting with others. (I know many of these exist on Balmung.)

I guess I just don't see treating someone's character who is not drunk or insane as being drunk or insane because I don't like their character idea as diplomatic.

(02-07-2017, 11:12 AM)Aegir Wrote: [ -> ]I guess I just don't see treating someone's character who is not drunk or insane as being drunk or insane because I don't like their character idea as diplomatic.

What do you suggest otherwise for people to do IC if they don't want to deal with people roleplaying NPCs? I think beyond flat out ignoring them, tell them to shove it OOC, there's very few legit IC options left to handle the situation beyond writing them off as insane.

There's little to win here if people are not consenting to their roleplay. In your opinion you're rude if you try to handle it IC by writing them off as insane/drunk. If you ignore them, you're rude according to some. If you play along with them while you don't want to, the player who's approached doesn't think it's enjoyable roleplay and just wishes it didn't happen. If you retcon, you're being mean in some people's eyes as well.

So what do you propose then? Because I really can't see any winners here if you don't want to roleplay with NPCs and they still insist onto RPing with/around you.

I think if people told them (politely) OOC that they are not interested, and they stay around despite that, you are in your full right to just ignore or write the character off as insane at that point. Consent is the main key here. If I'm not interested in RPing with x person because of x reason (including them RPing a NPC), that's my full right to do such, and those of others as well.

Most arguments that I could contribute have already been made. Personally, I'm conflicted on the issue, because on the one hand, I firmly believe in the improv comedy "yes, and..." rule, but on the other hand, there's a lot of baggage, much of it already being explored in this thread, to navigate.

One thing no one has mentioned is a gentler version of the "you must be crazy" method. You don't necessarily have to go so far as to call someone out as a raving lunatic. It's possible to just have your character openly disbelieve whoever's playing the NPC, thinking they're either a good impressionist or just stubbornly refusing to believe that they'd ever experience the equivalent of running into Johnny Depp at a coffee shop. If that's as far as you push it, you get a sort of Schrodinger's NPC situation. They could be the NPC, they could not. It doesn't matter either way, because you don't believe them. And on the other side, it doesn't matter whether you belief or not, because beliefs can contradict factual reality. This way, you dodge the uncomfortable "becoming besties with Minfilia" situation without directly contradicting their rp. Both players' "realities" can coexist long enough to get through one or two rp sessions, and after that, you just don't need to involve yourself in longterm rp with that player.

Of course, if players begin doing things like using their power to suddenly siccing an entire squad of soldiers on you or branding you a criminal, that starts approaching "sir, you're doing things to my character that I don't approve of, please stop" territory, and likely where I would start drawing a hard line, especially if it's walk-up rp with someone I'm not familiar with. Those are consequences that reach far farther than that one-off rp ever will, and the non-npc player is likely going to have to play them out on their own.

That said, if I ever saw a bleeding Primal walk into the Quicksand, I might take umbrage, as that goes so completely against established Primal behavior (not to mention raise serious questions abut the efficacy of Ul'dah's guards) that it becomes lore breaking.

(02-07-2017, 01:09 PM)Kazukata Wrote: [ -> ]That said, if I ever saw a bleeding Primal walk into the Quicksand, I might take umbrage, as that goes so completely against established Primal behavior (not to mention raise serious questions abut the efficacy of Ul'dah's guards) that it becomes lore breaking.

But what if it's Al'Kohawl, stout Primal of Beer and Spirits? Called by the patrons' desire for a cheap drink?

(02-07-2017, 01:12 PM)Gegenji Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-07-2017, 01:09 PM)Kazukata Wrote: [ -> ]That said, if I ever saw a bleeding Primal walk into the Quicksand, I might take umbrage, as that goes so completely against established Primal behavior (not to mention raise serious questions abut the efficacy of Ul'dah's guards) that it becomes lore breaking.

But what if it's Al'Kohawl, stout Primal of Beer and Spirits? Called by the patrons' desire for a cheap drink?

Then I think we'd see the death squads roll in to quietly dispose of an entire bar of tempered patrons. Not a good look. XD

(02-07-2017, 02:09 PM)Kazukata Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-07-2017, 01:12 PM)Gegenji Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-07-2017, 01:09 PM)Kazukata Wrote: [ -> ]That said, if I ever saw a bleeding Primal walk into the Quicksand, I might take umbrage, as that goes so completely against established Primal behavior (not to mention raise serious questions abut the efficacy of Ul'dah's guards) that it becomes lore breaking.

But what if it's Al'Kohawl, stout Primal of Beer and Spirits? Called by the patrons' desire for a cheap drink?

Then I think we'd see the death squads roll in to quietly dispose of an entire bar of tempered patrons. Not a good look. XD

What if... what if Momodi is the Primal of Alcohol?

I've seen my share of haurchefants and hildebrands, but never in any rp setting. given the situation though I would probably unfairly consider them of the godmodding variety.

not saying it's right, hell roleplaying an npc would be great, but established characters from the msq considerable clout, power and riches? their plot armor is usually as bad as the WoL.

(02-07-2017, 09:29 AM)Aegir Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-07-2017, 09:01 AM)Tyndles Wrote: [ -> ]2.  If they are trying to SERIOUSLY RP as that character?  My character will treat them as someone delusional, touched in the head or drunk.  Because thats the only way it would make sense.

I keep seeing people post this in every thread this is brought up. I find this reaction to be mean spirited and contemptuous. And it doesn't seem to be in the spirit of role play. It's weird where people draw the line between "okay, I'll pretend your character is/has this, but if you say they are/have this I'm going to be derisive and try to make you feel bad.

I think Kilieit explained it best as to why it is a problem for most and why most people might react this way. It's not mean spirited so much as it is someone trying to find a way to accept that character without feeling they are being forced to accept someone's NPC RP as canon and then incorporate it into their RP.

Newp.  Not into it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with them doing it but I wouldn't participate.  I might watch tho.

I don't think that EVERYONE should play some nobody/bland/vanilla background character. Everyone is a somebody once you get to know them.  But most of us are not nationally or even regionally known.  I personally wouldn't have clue one how to portray a famous person or someone with great political influence.

My reluctance to encountering someone playing an NPC is that my character MIGHT have already established a relationship them.  This would be a relationship that the NPC player would not know anything about.  And the more important the NPC, the more likely it is that other players have established relationships with that character in their own head canons.  And why should they have to substitute that canon for someone else's interpretation?

My character tends to stay off the map and deals with persons, places, and things that are based on the MSQ & side quests but doesn't necessarily follow any of it.  I'd never suggest that Mia has an ongoing feud with Zana Lyehga because in the MSQ, I'm pretty sure I killed her. Every one on the Gladiator quest line has killed Zana Lyehga.  But, Mia does have an ongoing feud with a Miqo'te who is more or less identical to Zana Lyehga.

But it would be weird to see someone playing Zana.  But because she's somewhat low on the totem pole of NPCs, I'd be more likely to RP with them than someone playing Minfilia or Admiral Bloefhiswyn.

Here's a thought, as well:

Eorzea is a land with a distinct caste system in the various nations that comprise it. There's also failingly little evidence of photographs existing, and there's definitely no television. If you AREN'T a part of the high-ranking adventuring class, how does anyone even know what these people look like? Who the hell is Thancred? What's a Ser Grinneaux? We as players know what these names mean, but unconnected player characters can reasonably doubt someone being who they say they are. This leads to...

Playing an NPC requires a certain degree of decorum, sort of: If you're playing Raubahn or the Sultana or a Scion, it sort of forces the RP to acknowledge that person exists. As mentioned above, it's difficult to imagine running into Johnny Depp at a coffee shop, but if it DOES happen you can guarantee that the topic of the scene is going to be Johnny Depp At A Coffee Shop. It has the capacity to derail anything else going on when you cash in a character's celebrity.

I don't really understand why people like roleplaying canon characters, so I can't explain the appeal. To someone like me it kind of reeks of "Give me attention" and I logically know that isn't the case, but I've seen enough instances of someone sucking the air out of the room trying to swing that unearned clout and it doesn't settle well with me. That makes me feel bad for the people like the OP, who are just doing it to present a scene for their friends.

I'm alright with it happening for planned arcs, but I can't really explain away why the Azure Dragoon is hanging out with pirates in Limsa and getting drunk.

edit: And truthfully, I'd rather not have to. It's the same as when people do hugely-dramatic actions in public places: Magey explosion fights in the open streets, giant military maneuvering that would have major consequences in the MSQ, and the random "A primal appears in the Canopy and slaughters tons of people" kind of stuff does more to splinter a community than it does to bring one together. Someone Important turning up in public isn't on that scale, but the impact is the same: You either go with it or you don't, and that can splinter coherency in some awful ways. Shared communities don't handle one person or group telling them what the RP canon is, and yes, even in trivial things like "Minfy and Tataru Buy Dresses."

(02-07-2017, 11:25 AM)Virella Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-07-2017, 11:12 AM)Aegir Wrote: [ -> ]I guess I just don't see treating someone's character who is not drunk or insane as being drunk or insane because I don't like their character idea as diplomatic.

What do you suggest otherwise for people to do IC if they don't want to deal with people roleplaying NPCs? I think beyond flat out ignoring them, tell them to shove it OOC, there's very few legit IC options left to handle the situation beyond writing them off as insane.

There's little to win here if people are not consenting to their roleplay. In your opinion you're rude if you try to handle it IC by writing them off as insane/drunk. If you ignore them, you're rude according to some. If you play along with them while you don't want to, the player who's approached doesn't think it's enjoyable roleplay and just wishes it didn't happen. If you retcon, you're being mean in some people's eyes as well.

So what do you propose then? Because I really can't see any winners here if you don't want to roleplay with NPCs and they still insist onto RPing with/around you.

I think if people told them (politely) OOC that they are not interested, and they stay around despite that, you are in your full right to just ignore or write the character off as insane at that point. Consent is the main key here. If I'm not interested in RPing with x person because of x reason (including them RPing a NPC), that's my full right to do such, and those of others as well.

I guess I see open RP as an uncontrollable environment, like real life, where you aren't going to like or agree with everything everyone is doing around you. I don't have the automatic assumption that if a person plays X (whether X is a canon character, a White Mage/Dragoon/Fist of Rhalgr, voidsent/voidtouched, whatever) they're automatically going to suck and I'm not going to like it. I've met a lot of interesting characters with some really weird backgrounds and I'd kick myself in hindsight if I hadn't given them a chance.

I've never had a canon rp-er shove themselves down my throat before like you have, but I think I would handle it in the same way I would an aggressive ERPer or someone behaving inappropriately. I'd probably just ignore them. I wouldn't try to bully their idea by going: get a load of this nutjob, though. 

I'm not sure where in my previous post I wrote that you /have/ to RP with them. If I made that statement, I apologize. I feel like I pissed you off and that wasn't my intention.