(06-09-2015, 02:11 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: I think people are just used to F2P MMOs, which don't care how long you stay. They want you to show up, blow 50 bux in the cash shop, then come back in a few months to try out the next new gimmick.

(06-09-2015, 02:11 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:

(06-09-2015, 02:06 PM)shotgunbadger Wrote: I don't think anyone is saying this is some game ruining problem but yea, as a dude just coming back who's last storyline progress was getting a chocobo and who's highest class is currently like 20 and it's not even the class I want to be, it's a little annoying that a major part of the game experience is gonna be totally locked out, especially considering I think those jobs are really cool. Like yea I'm not gonna be miserable just going with black mage through the story, but I wish I at least had access to the options. It's not the worst thing ever done in an MMO, but it's an annoying and frankly really outdated MMO philosophy to have, the old 'expansion packs are just for people who are done with the game right now' train of thought is really not an awesome one.

Again, this 'Outdated MMO philosophy' is currently the only subscription MMO besides WoW that's making money.

I think people are just used to F2P MMOs, which don't care how long you stay. They want you to show up, blow 50 bux in the cash shop, then come back in a few months to try out the next new gimmick.

(06-09-2015, 02:32 PM)shotgunbadger Wrote:

(06-09-2015, 02:11 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:

(06-09-2015, 02:06 PM)shotgunbadger Wrote: I don't think anyone is saying this is some game ruining problem but yea, as a dude just coming back who's last storyline progress was getting a chocobo and who's highest class is currently like 20 and it's not even the class I want to be, it's a little annoying that a major part of the game experience is gonna be totally locked out, especially considering I think those jobs are really cool. Like yea I'm not gonna be miserable just going with black mage through the story, but I wish I at least had access to the options. It's not the worst thing ever done in an MMO, but it's an annoying and frankly really outdated MMO philosophy to have, the old 'expansion packs are just for people who are done with the game right now' train of thought is really not an awesome one.

Again, this 'Outdated MMO philosophy' is currently the only subscription MMO besides WoW that's making money.

I think people are just used to F2P MMOs, which don't care how long you stay. They want you to show up, blow 50 bux in the cash shop, then come back in a few months to try out the next new gimmick.

I'd argue that profitable has nothing to do with outdated or not. I don't deny FFXIV is successful, I love that it's successful because I love this game, but we are rapidly approaching a time where MMOs are going to have to do some real deep looks at what is and isn't a good way to keep players, and I just can't imagine 'make expansions that have absolutely nothing for people under the level cap and then some thanks to ilevel being the gate' is going to stick around.

(06-09-2015, 02:37 PM)Naunet Wrote: Are you seriously trying to suggest that the way an MMO handles an expansion is the reason behind it going F2P? Most that I've witnessed made the transition to F2P well before any expansion. The P2P/F2P debate doesn't really belong in this discussion.

Also the argument that a player should just pack up and go to another game because X game does something a player doesn't like doesn't really fly with me. There are a million reasons to like or dislike a game. You do not have to accept the whole package to want to play the game, and it's perfectly reasonable to point out observed flaws in that package.

(06-09-2015, 02:47 PM)Naunet Wrote: I... really don't think that locking astrologian, dark knight, and machinist behind a 50 level and MSQ grind on a different class is "what makes FFXIV successful". At all. There is nothing about buying a game and an expac and expecting to have access to all the classes in said game that is "like a F2P game".

You mischaracterize arguments so much, I am starting to think you're only in here to troll. The aggression in your posts certainly suggests such.

(06-09-2015, 02:36 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:

(06-09-2015, 02:32 PM)shotgunbadger Wrote:

(06-09-2015, 02:11 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:

(06-09-2015, 02:06 PM)shotgunbadger Wrote: I don't think anyone is saying this is some game ruining problem but yea, as a dude just coming back who's last storyline progress was getting a chocobo and who's highest class is currently like 20 and it's not even the class I want to be, it's a little annoying that a major part of the game experience is gonna be totally locked out, especially considering I think those jobs are really cool. Like yea I'm not gonna be miserable just going with black mage through the story, but I wish I at least had access to the options. It's not the worst thing ever done in an MMO, but it's an annoying and frankly really outdated MMO philosophy to have, the old 'expansion packs are just for people who are done with the game right now' train of thought is really not an awesome one.

Again, this 'Outdated MMO philosophy' is currently the only subscription MMO besides WoW that's making money.

I think people are just used to F2P MMOs, which don't care how long you stay. They want you to show up, blow 50 bux in the cash shop, then come back in a few months to try out the next new gimmick.

I'd argue that profitable has nothing to do with outdated or not. I don't deny FFXIV is successful, I love that it's successful because I love this game, but we are rapidly approaching a time where MMOs are going to have to do some real deep looks at what is and isn't a good way to keep players, and I just can't imagine 'make expansions that have absolutely nothing for people under the level cap and then some thanks to ilevel being the gate' is going to stick around.

I think lots of other MMOs have done what you say and they've all been forced to go Free to Play.

Do you have a counter example of a subscription MMO that has done the things you suggest and been successful?

I could name a dozen or more who have done thing things you've said and gone f2p.

I would enjoy if you could bring even one statistic or piece of evidence forward that supports your view besides blind conjecture and anecdote. There are lots of other MMOs that do what you say, so why not just enjoy those instead of saying this one should change?

(06-09-2015, 02:43 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: People are annoyed they have to work their way up to new content, instead of just paying money and having it be made available to them.

(06-09-2015, 02:54 PM)Aya Wrote:

(06-09-2015, 02:43 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: People are annoyed they have to work their way up to new content, instead of just paying money and having it be made available to them.

Mischaracterize much?  Seriously Nat.

(06-09-2015, 02:57 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: How am I doing that? Is it not the position of many people in this thread that they should have access to the new classes in heavensward simply by purchasing the expansion?

Lots of people seem opposed to the idea of finishing the 2.0 content to do so.

I think that is an accurate assessment, if its wrong, someone who is complaining please clarify what you actually want.

(06-09-2015, 02:58 PM)Aaron Wrote: Something I don't understand and I hope no one takes this the wrong way. It's a honest question. 

They announced HW needed 2.55 completion before they allowed pre orders right?  Well, if you know you aren't gonna be able to play it, why pre order it along with the hype? Wouldn't it save a lot of hurt emotions and such to just wait till youre up to date and then buy the expac? 

Unless you ordered for the dragon statue or something. Then that's different.

(06-09-2015, 02:57 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:

(06-09-2015, 02:54 PM)Aya Wrote:

(06-09-2015, 02:43 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: People are annoyed they have to work their way up to new content, instead of just paying money and having it be made available to them.

Mischaracterize much?  Seriously Nat.

How am I doing that? Is it not the position of many people in this thread that they should have access to the new classes in heavensward simply by purchasing the expansion?

Lots of people seem opposed to the idea of finishing the 2.0 content to do so.

I think that is an accurate assessment, if its wrong, someone who is complaining please clarify what you actually want.

(06-09-2015, 03:02 PM)Aya Wrote:

(06-09-2015, 02:57 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: How am I doing that? Is it not the position of many people in this thread that they should have access to the new classes in heavensward simply by purchasing the expansion?

Lots of people seem opposed to the idea of finishing the 2.0 content to do so.

I think that is an accurate assessment, if its wrong, someone who is complaining please clarify what you actually want.

For one: you're conflating classes with content.  For two, you're conflating "work their way up to content" with "put in hours of tedious effort on old level 50 MSQ stuff."   Its a matter of wanting to be able to play the current game, not the two year old version of the game for six months in order to catch up.  That's an entirely fair expectation for the purchase of the game and its most recent expansion.  It is not an expectation of buying the game, suddenly being gifted a maximum level character of the desired class, and geared to the point of being able to clear raid content.  

How many MMORPGs have actually required full completion of the previous expansion to touch the new one?  That is a genuine question since I am entirely unaware of any (but my experience in MMO's is not all that expansive).