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IvikBlack · **03-04-2015, 07:00 PM**

I edited it out before I even saw your post because you're right, using that turn of phrase was unfair. When I went back and read what I wrote again I realized it might be hurtful and inaccurate. I didn't mean to be, and I apologize for any hurt that particular phrasing caused you.

The rest of my points stand and you've doubled down on the condescension. I do not appreciate this.

Knight Kat · **03-04-2015, 07:12 PM**

(03-04-2015, 06:37 PM)Presidio Wrote:
(03-04-2015, 05:31 PM)Coatleque Wrote:
(03-04-2015, 05:22 PM)Presidio Wrote: Any depiction of sexually active minors makes me uncomfortable, yeah.

And it makes me far more uncomfortable if the person isn't a minor, because it fringes on pedophilia.

Such uncomfortableness is merely a product of the society you were raised in. Â You must separate the accepted 'norm' from actual biology and learn some history. Â It wasn't until the mid 1800's in real life that people were suddenly considered "minors" under a specific age. Â That was when the conservative right lobbied for age of consent laws to try and cut down on human sex trafficking and forced marriages.

Before then, you were almost a full adult by 14. Â That is when biology naturally takes over. Â That is when nature intended the human species to be mature. Â If a child is not emotionally developed enough to handle life by then, it is society's/the parent's fault, not nature. Â Not the Government.

That being said, the government is still in charge here, sadly. Â And if they say such things are illegal, then you must contend with their backing of force. Â All I'm saying is that before you say "That makes me uncomfortable", take a look at WHY you feel that way and put it in perspective over the course of all of human history. Â If your view makes absolutely no biological sense, perhaps you should reconsider it.
Condescension not withstanding, there are a number of factual and structural problems with this argument.

First of all, how people felt in the past about the age of consent is irrelevant to the subject of what the age of consent should be today. That's an argument from antiquity or tradition, which has nothing to do with your later submitted argument from biology. There's a big problem there in that we actually know more about biological development today than people did in the 1850s...

Secondly, people are not fully matured even on a simple biological level at 14. Puberty does not end until age 16 on average (source:Â http://www.pamf.org/parenting-teens/heal...rowth.html). And there are many more ways to mature aside from puberty (neurological development takes much longer for instance).

Finally, your entire post is off the topic of "how to cope with minors doing things adults shouldn't see" and has instead chosen to defend the idea of adults seeing these things. I am not talking about what the age of consent would be in Eorzea. We aren't talking about realistic RP or what we personally think the age of consent should be. I appreciate the discussion, but this is not the place for advocating for lowering the age of consent to 14.

You have been told by many people how you can deal with your discomfort in RP. You have been told how to avoid it. All it takes is a simple IC and/or OOC question of the other person in-game.

Crofte is -not- defending pedophilia, or advocating anything. She is using history as a context for what might be how culture in Eorzea operates, and there are examples in-game that she might be right.

Of course the game does not depict underage sex, nor should it. However, Eorzea is not a perfect world. People will do different things with that idea. Avoid what you don't like, but don't come here trying to change peoples' RP. It won't work, and is just making you seem like a player who can't separate OOC from IC.

IvikBlack · **03-04-2015, 07:13 PM**

If you can quote to me where I advocated for changing other people's RP it'd be helpful in letting me know where this misconception arose. I'm actually really confused as to why so many people were accusing me of that.

I mean, my first post made it clear that I wasn't sure that there was a solution and that I was trying to try to avoid that kind of RP as my solution... I don't know where the idea that I was looking to change other people came from.

Moonlit · **03-04-2015, 07:14 PM**

I think the common consensus on threads like these (because there are others), is that:

"People will do what people want." At the end of the day, we can't security check for under age players. We can only take their word for face value. Erotic scenes with minors can be completely avoided by fading to black. You could have anÂ aromantic character or only keep romance to specific people you trust. However, ultimately, no one has the right to police someone else's RP. All you can do is:

- Ask (tells or otherwise)
- Check to see if they have a wiki
- Choose to take their answer for face value
- Depart or remain in the RP.

Ultimately, we're not bound to places and things that make us uncomfortable. If you know a minor (IC or OOC) is participating in something you don't condone in (let's say) the Quicksand, then you can go out, do something, come back later. Initiate your own protection, that's all anyone can really do.

Zyrusticae · **03-04-2015, 07:21 PM**

First of all, age is a completely arbitrary metric to begin with. I've seen and met preteens with more mental and emotional maturity than grown adults. How one individual copes with physical intimacy is going to have less to do with their physical age and a lot more to do with how they were raised, their particular circumstances and experiences, their partner, etc. Arbitrarily cutting off any interactions with younger people out of irrational fears of exploitation does more harm than good at any rate.

I mean, look, yes, there is an obvious power imbalance between a 31 year-old and a 16 year-old. Does such a relationship suddenly and magically become okay when they reach whatever arbitrary cut-off point society has deemed the age of consent (as happens so often in today's society)? Why do you care so much about the actual number? You should be able to decide, both ICly and OOCly, how your character views the situation and whether or not the other party is acting in such a fashion that they display the requisite maturity. This problem is easily solved simply by having your character react in an apropros fashion. (But of course, if you intentionally make a character that's the type to not give two shits... well, that's on you.)

And this is a tangent, but demonizing pedophilia is not doing you any favors, either. Child molestation, abuse, and rape, sure, condemn those all you want. There are, however, a huge number of individuals (something like 1% - that's one out of a hundred - of males, which is likely an under-reported number given the social stigma associated with it) with the condition of pedophilia who have never done any of the above and simply live with their condition without telling a soul (because obviously telling people is social suicide). Like any sort of mental disorder, treatment and understanding go a lot, LOT further than simply criminalizing anyone who displays signs of abnormality.

Yes, it is a terrible condition that drives people to do terrible things, but it is only one part of any individual's whole, and their good side overpowers that condition so frequently that you only ever hear about the ones who fail spectacularly. One of the most difficult things about the condition is the realization that many people may have it whom you would never even suspect of having it, and turning it into a thought-crime only drives those people to bury their thoughts further - and I'm sure you can understand why that is never a healthy coping strategy.

And also, every time someone refers to people attracted to those in the ephebophile range using the word "pedophile" I die a little inside. There is a HUGE difference between someone going for prepubescent children (0 sexual or physical maturity) and someone going for teenagers (often near the end of puberty) at the very borders of the age of consent. One is an actual paraphilia and can be classed as a mental disorder. The other is perfectly normal (if immoral). Please straighten out your terminology, thank you.

Kage · **03-04-2015, 07:25 PM**

Fact is I highly doubt they will -ever- introduce any type of mechanic or system that identifies a person's age. Both character wise or player wise.

It'd be opening a can of worms that they really wouldn't want to have to deal with.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **03-04-2015, 07:32 PM**

(03-04-2015, 07:25 PM)Kage Wrote: Fact is I highly doubt they will -ever- introduce any type of mechanic or system that identifies a person's age. Both character wise or player wise.

It'd be opening a can of worms that they really wouldn't want to have to deal with.

Aside from the fact we know people would just skip around it? Just look at most websites and services (let's use Steam as an example of a legitimate service with age restrictions!). ...It might ask for a date of birth, but what stops a person from lying about it (both ways).

Trusting the people you RP with is much more important than knowing what year they were born in. If you are worried someone may be underage (or just not mentally mature enough) for an IC (or OOC) relationship of that nature, don't put yourself in that situation. People keep stressing that this should be communicated beforehand, and it's true.

Knight Kat · **03-04-2015, 07:35 PM**

Quote:If you can quote to me where I advocated for changing other people's RP it'd be helpful in letting me know where this misconception arose. I'm actually really confused as to why so many people were accusing me of that.

(03-04-2015, 05:12 PM)Presidio Wrote: What bothers me about it is you don't actually know that the people RPing as 16 year olds are 16... It's a huge grey area for explotation, and I'm not even sure if it's legal to be doing it, engaging in it, or even seeing it.

It might actually fall under child pornography depending on how far people take it.

Here is the quote from you. ^

Maybe you should clarify this because it seems to me like you are saying those RPing that their character is ICly under the age of 18 are possibly committing an illegal act, or doing child pornography.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, and entitled to avoid things that make you feel uncomfortable, but do not attack those that disagree with you by throwing malevolent labels on them.

I am more upset about the tone you are setting. Accusing Crofte of what you accused her of was a huge jump to a negative conclusion about her just because she was making an argument you didn't like.

C'kayah Polaali · **03-04-2015, 07:48 PM**

Two things that come to my mind when I read your initial post (and your clarifications about your discomfort with the idea of minors being sexually active): Kids have sex, and OOC communication is key.

I didn't have penis-in-vagina sex until I was 18, mainly because I wasn't ready for it before then. I did do all sorts of other things that were very distinctly sexual when I was younger, and I knew plenty of other people who were far more sexually active than I was as minors. Kids have sex. It happens.

Now, I'm not sure where your objection really lies with the idea of minors in sexual situations in RP. If you're uncomfortable with the idea of getting involved in some heavy ERP with someone who's character is underage, the clear solution is to send them a tell saying "Hey, how old is your character?". If you're uncomfortable with the idea of getting into heavy ERP with someone who's player is underage, that's stickier. Perhaps the best solution to that is to not ERP at all. If you're uncomfortable with the idea of other people flirting with underage characters in your presence, the clear solution is to manage your black list, perhaps with a nice atmosphere-building emote: "/em turns away from Humbert and Lolita, his eyes dropping to his ale. Ul'dah was a libertine and libidinous place, something he'd never really been comfortable with."

Faye · **03-04-2015, 08:33 PM**

If you're worried about someone's character and/or the player being underaged, why not just... avoid ERP or sexual (and maybe romantic if even that freaks you out) situations with anyone unless you trust them and know for a fact they're an adult IRL? That seems a lot easier than expecting everyone not to RP underaged characters. Not everyone person who role-plays has to role-play a character that is romantically/sexual available to you. We're here to role-play and have fun for ourselves, not to be part of your IC dating pool.

Also, every time someone calls attraction to a post-pubescent teenager "pedophilia," I want to bash my head into a wall. It's not. It's really not. It's a world away. Immoral as it may be at least in today's society, attraction to a physically matured person is completely natural biologically. They're not even close to the same thing.

Cato · **03-05-2015, 08:27 AM**

I've always felt as though it's best to avoid ERP altogether unless you've known the other role-player(s) involved for enough time to safely judge whether they're of legal age and of the necessary level of maturity to deal with it.

That's the stance I take. It helps immensely to filter out those who are only looking to get off on some ERP and those that stick it out and aren't discouraged by someone telling them that they don't know them well enough to risk it tend to be the better and more stable options for that sort of role-play in the long run.

On the other hand, though, it's probably better for someone to experiment online rather than in the real world. I won't lie - engaging in ERP during my mid-late teens helped me come to terms with my bisexuality and I don't regret exploring that side of me online rather than in the real world back when I was still rather naive regarding such matters.

Edvyn · **03-05-2015, 05:38 PM**

(03-04-2015, 07:21 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: And also, every time someone refers to people attracted to those in the ephebophile range using the word "pedophile" I die a little inside. There is a HUGE difference between someone going for prepubescent children (0 sexual or physical maturity) and someone going for teenagers (often near the end of puberty) at the very borders of the age of consent. One is an actual paraphilia and can be classed as a mental disorder. The other is perfectly normal (if immoral). Please straighten out your terminology, thank you.

not in the eyes of the law lmao

ChewableMorphine · **03-05-2015, 06:07 PM**

(03-05-2015, 05:38 PM)Edvyn Wrote:
(03-04-2015, 07:21 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: And also, every time someone refers to people attracted to those in the ephebophile range using the word "pedophile" I die a little inside. There is a HUGE difference between someone going for prepubescent children (0 sexual or physical maturity) and someone going for teenagers (often near the end of puberty) at the very borders of the age of consent. One is an actual paraphilia and can be classed as a mental disorder. The other is perfectly normal (if immoral). Please straighten out your terminology, thank you.
not in the eyes of the law lmao

Either way

The word of the day is: Consent

Thankfully this is a medium where all sorts of weirdos can do all sorts of weird things (which includes and is not limited to futa, pedo erp, and other risque things). This means that if both RPers are consenting and keep that out of the public, go wild, why should you care. It's not your business, and at least it's out of sight. Move on, go play the game, them oddballs can have fun in their own privacy.

Gaspard · **03-05-2015, 06:13 PM**

(03-05-2015, 05:38 PM)Edvyn Wrote:
(03-04-2015, 07:21 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: And also, every time someone refers to people attracted to those in the ephebophile range using the word "pedophile" I die a little inside. There is a HUGE difference between someone going for prepubescent children (0 sexual or physical maturity) and someone going for teenagers (often near the end of puberty) at the very borders of the age of consent. One is an actual paraphilia and can be classed as a mental disorder. The other is perfectly normal (if immoral). Please straighten out your terminology, thank you.
not in the eyes of the law lmao

The 'Law' is a joke in the majority of our world countries, including first world countries that pride themselves on being progressive and 'morally just'. I mean, people sue companies for millions because their coffee cup was too hot and didn't have a 'caution, hot liquid inside' label, and most punishments stand in absolutely no logical equation to eachother.

Online piracy can ruin my life, push me eternally into debt and ensure that I will never amount to anything in life, even if I manage to avoid a Jail sentence.

Killing another human being under the right circumstances will see me get a bit of therapy and a sentence that I will not even have to spend in jail.

Val · **03-05-2015, 06:16 PM**

(03-05-2015, 08:27 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: I've always felt as though it's best to avoid ERP altogether unless you've known the other role-player(s) involved for enough time to safely judge whether they're of legal age and of the necessary level of maturity to deal with it.

That's pretty much how I feel. I generally don't engage in ERP unless I know the individual, and even then it's sparing.Â

As for the age thing, as Faye said above, it's more or less a modern societal thing. Women are technically "of age" as soon as they have their first cycle, regardless of how immoral society has made it to be.

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