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Caspar · **03-04-2015, 05:47 PM**

(03-04-2015, 04:42 PM)Presidio Wrote: Full disclosure: I'm 30 IRL, I RP a character who is 31.

Eorzea is not the real world. It's an important thing to keep in mind, but unfortunately our experiences in RP cannot always be completely separated from RL. Given my age, seeing characters under the age of 18 behaving salaciously, IC or not, makes me extremely uncomfortable.

I've involuntarily witnessed sixteen year olds RP in the midst of heavy flirting, getting wasted in public and talking about their proclivities, etc. etc. etc. In fact, once my character hit on a miqo'te in a bar only to find out she's supposed to be sixteen IC -- that was EXTREMELY awkward.

I really don't like it, but I'm not so sure that there's an actual solution to the problem aside from RPing in more exclusive venues. I tend to RP in public a lot, so I wish we had some kind of ingame character/player profile system to determine the age of people we're RPing with so I could avoid the young'ins.

Thoughts?

Look up their wiki?

Enzo · **03-04-2015, 05:48 PM**

(03-04-2015, 05:41 PM)Jijiroga Wrote:
(03-04-2015, 05:31 PM)Coatleque Wrote:
(03-04-2015, 05:22 PM)Presidio Wrote: Any depiction of sexually active minors makes me uncomfortable, yeah.

And it makes me far more uncomfortable if the person isn't a minor, because it fringes on pedophilia.

Such uncomfortableness is merely a product of the society you were raised in. Â You must separate the accepted 'norm' from actual biology and learn some history. Â It wasn't until the mid 1800's in real life that people were suddenly considered "minors" under a specific age. Â That was when the conservative right lobbied for age of consent laws to try and cut down on human sex trafficking and forced marriages.

Before then, you were almost a full adult by 14. Â That is when biology naturally takes over. Â That is when nature intended the human species to be mature. Â If a child is not emotionally developed enough to handle life by then, it is society's/the parent's fault, not nature. Â Not the Government.

That being said, the government is still in charge here, sadly. Â And if they say such things are illegal, then you must contend with their backing of force. Â All I'm saying is that before you say "That makes me uncomfortable", take a look at WHY you feel that way and put it in perspective over the course of all of human history. Â If your view makes absolutely no biological sense, perhaps you should reconsider it.

You would be correct.Â I would just add that in the times you mentioned, your average life expectancy was much lower than it is today due to lack of innovations in the medical field.Â I want to say you were considered "old" around your 40s to 50s if you managed to live to that ripe age.

Some people would still consider that old. Tongue

And There were still plenty of people who reached above that age as well. That was just average. I do agree with Coatleque doe

Kage · **03-04-2015, 06:00 PM**

(03-04-2015, 05:41 PM)Jijiroga Wrote: You would be correct.Â I would just add that in the times you mentioned, your average life expectancy was much lower than it is today due to lack of innovations in the medical field.Â I want to say you were considered "old" around your 40s to 50s if you managed to live to that ripe age.

Not to mention that your life expectancy in Eorzea is sorta the same as mentioned by Fern. Just, the world outside of them city-states are much more dangerous right now and the average persons don't have the means to deal with it.

iirc the Sultana was the Sultana when she turned 16. She's 21 now? I forgot what I posted from the anniversary shares.

At this point, I just take their RP at face value. If they are RPing a young character then either my character has an aversion to it or I do. Will I let my OOC opinions interfere with that is what I choose to let direct my RP. Simply put, you could always just make your character find it extremely abhorrent and react that way in RP. Otherwise, you will simply have to be more exclusive about how you RP. Check if they have a wiki and work from there. Or OOCly PM all of them before engaging in such behavior.

Uninstalldotexe · **03-04-2015, 06:01 PM**

(03-04-2015, 05:44 PM)Coatleque Wrote:
(03-04-2015, 05:41 PM)Jijiroga Wrote: You would be correct.Â I would just add that in the times you mentioned, your average life expectancy was much lower than it is today due to lack of innovations in the medical field.Â I want to say you were considered "old" around your 40s to 50s if you managed to live to that ripe age.

True, but irrelevant.
What does living longer have to do with the age of maturity? Â Nothing. Â Else biology would have naturally moved along with it. Â Unless you are just seeking a pass for lazy parenting. Â Being old at 65 rather than 50 has no bearing on being mature at 14.

Eeesh. Ok.

Well, maturity goes along with the society as a whole and because of the laws you mentioned, our generation of 14 year olds would by no means be ready to tackle on the world on their own.Â I suppose if you had a super strick upbringing and your parents raised you with no intention of experiencing a childhood or you had absolutely no choice due to circumstances. I guess.

In terms of the body, sure, the female biology is usually mature at that age but it does not mean mentally shes ready for such challenges.Â I would concede that a woman in the 1800s might out of necessity. Also, I would contend that maturity is more relative to understanding the world around you and being able to fully accept the responsibility for your actions in whatever capacity rather than the body being ready to bear a child. Considering the circumstances of the citizens of Eorzea, I would say they are "mature" enough.

***Maril*** · **03-04-2015, 06:04 PM**

(03-04-2015, 05:41 PM)Jijiroga Wrote: You would be correct.Â I would just add that in the times you mentioned, your average life expectancy was much lower than it is today due to lack of innovations in the medical field.Â I want to say you were considered "old" around your 40s to 50s if you managed to live to that ripe age.

I will just note that during the Lore Q/A panel during the fan fests the lore developer team did touch on eorzean lifespans. They noted that whilst most races could possibly become 100 years old, it was very unlikely that they would because Eorzea is a very dangerous place to live, where people, the environment & exploding moons are out to get you. So with that in mind, it is very likely that being 40-50 years old as a hyur in Eorzea is considered old, perhaps even impressive and something to revere. Which then could mess with when society regards someone as being adult, I wouldn't be surprised if 18 wasn't exactly the legal age in Eorzea.Â

Otherwise on the topic, if you find out that a character is a minor and you are not comfortable with it, you always have the option to politely excuse yourself icly - Presuming that the age question is popped early in the RP, you might not even need to make an OOC mention about it. If people ask, then just state things as they are - people should respect your personal boundaries at the end of the day. You might benefit from implementing something in your characters personality or background that makes them react this way. When you make it a quirk it gets easier to go with - I have some traits in Nailah that are there because of certain OOC elements which can not be negotiated, which now are a fully integrated undeniable part of who she is as a character.
Â
You can't ever tell people what they can and can't do, you can just choose not to hang around a person if you find out they're doing something you as a player, for one reason or the other, can't stomach. Be it age, a lore violation like say, people suddenly transforming into a werewolf-vampire hybrid which remains friendly, you name it. Yes, it will limit your rp-circle if you would but.. It's not like there's a shortage of roleplayers ^^

Uninstalldotexe · **03-04-2015, 06:09 PM**

(03-04-2015, 05:48 PM)Enzo Wrote:
(03-04-2015, 05:41 PM)Jijiroga Wrote:
(03-04-2015, 05:31 PM)Coatleque Wrote:
(03-04-2015, 05:22 PM)Presidio Wrote: Any depiction of sexually active minors makes me uncomfortable, yeah.

And it makes me far more uncomfortable if the person isn't a minor, because it fringes on pedophilia.

Such uncomfortableness is merely a product of the society you were raised in. Â You must separate the accepted 'norm' from actual biology and learn some history. Â It wasn't until the mid 1800's in real life that people were suddenly considered "minors" under a specific age. Â That was when the conservative right lobbied for age of consent laws to try and cut down on human sex trafficking and forced marriages.

Before then, you were almost a full adult by 14. Â That is when biology naturally takes over. Â That is when nature intended the human species to be mature. Â If a child is not emotionally developed enough to handle life by then, it is society's/the parent's fault, not nature. Â Not the Government.

That being said, the government is still in charge here, sadly. Â And if they say such things are illegal, then you must contend with their backing of force. Â All I'm saying is that before you say "That makes me uncomfortable", take a look at WHY you feel that way and put it in perspective over the course of all of human history. Â If your view makes absolutely no biological sense, perhaps you should reconsider it.

You would be correct.Â I would just add that in the times you mentioned, your average life expectancy was much lower than it is today due to lack of innovations in the medical field.Â I want to say you were considered "old" around your 40s to 50s if you managed to live to that ripe age.

Some people would still consider that old. And There were still plenty of people who reached above that age as well. That was just average. I do agree with Coatleque doe

I think I failed in making mention that I was speaking about real life rather than FF.

Coatleque · **03-04-2015, 06:12 PM**

(03-04-2015, 06:01 PM)Jijiroga Wrote: I would concede that a woman in the 1800s might out of necessity. Also, I would contend that maturity is more relative to understanding the world around you and being able to fully accept the responsibility for your actions in whatever capacity rather than the body being ready to bear a child.

And I would agree with you on this up to a certain point. But that whole argument is beyond the scope of this thread. What we do seem to agree with is that society has unnaturally pushed the age of adolescence much further than biology intended.

Faye · **03-04-2015, 06:15 PM**

I can understand how it makes you uncomfortable, but limiting people is a huge no-no, especially considering there are those who role-play minors in completely innocent, non-sexual, age-appropriate ways. However, I'm not meaning to play the devil's advocate here, but let's keep in mind FFXIV isn't exactly a modern/real life setting. It's a somewhat medieval setting, and in such times, at age 16, having sex, marriage, even having kids was totally appropriate, if not expected. Even in real life, it's still somewhat accurate. In some states in the US (such as my own), 16 is the legal age of consent. There's also no rule that taboos can't/shouldn't be role-played. If something in an RP is a trigger for you IRL, respectfully bow out of the RP rather than try to censor others, or have a polite and open OOC conversation with the other RPer about it and try to reach some compromise where you're no longer uncomfortable with their RP.

sforze · **03-04-2015, 06:16 PM**

If sex is something that's purely physical with no mental, emotional, or societal contexts or consequences, sure, we can go with "nature" (though this also has some really distasteful implications, if you really dig into it). But in a world where sex doesn't exist in a vacuum and there are things like power imbalances due to age, social status, wealth, etc., and different levels of emotional/mental maturity besides, relying purely on whether or not someone's hit puberty just doesn't cut it. There were imbalances in the pre-1800s and there are imbalances today. In that way, I think the "what nature wants" argument is just a little bit beside the point.

Coatleque · **03-04-2015, 06:21 PM**

(03-04-2015, 06:16 PM)sforze Wrote: There were imbalances in the pre-1800s and there are imbalances today. In that way, I think the "what nature wants" argument is just a little bit beside the point.

The world is full of imbalances. Every species vies for dominance during mating. Why would humans be any different? Unless what you are trying to say is that this is a moral issue.

Bryn · **03-04-2015, 06:29 PM**

(03-04-2015, 05:14 PM)Dogberry Wrote: words word words

I should also disclose that I don't ERP. I strictly fade to black, mostly because I find ERP about as sexy as visit to the dentist.

... Curses.

IvikBlack · **03-04-2015, 06:37 PM**

(03-04-2015, 05:31 PM)Coatleque Wrote:
(03-04-2015, 05:22 PM)Presidio Wrote: Any depiction of sexually active minors makes me uncomfortable, yeah.

And it makes me far more uncomfortable if the person isn't a minor, because it fringes on pedophilia.

Such uncomfortableness is merely a product of the society you were raised in. Â You must separate the accepted 'norm' from actual biology and learn some history. Â It wasn't until the mid 1800's in real life that people were suddenly considered "minors" under a specific age. Â That was when the conservative right lobbied for age of consent laws to try and cut down on human sex trafficking and forced marriages.

Before then, you were almost a full adult by 14. Â That is when biology naturally takes over. Â That is when nature intended the human species to be mature. Â If a child is not emotionally developed enough to handle life by then, it is society's/the parent's fault, not nature. Â Not the Government.

That being said, the government is still in charge here, sadly. Â And if they say such things are illegal, then you must contend with their backing of force. Â All I'm saying is that before you say "That makes me uncomfortable", take a look at WHY you feel that way and put it in perspective over the course of all of human history. Â If your view makes absolutely no biological sense, perhaps you should reconsider it.

Condescension not withstanding, there are a number of factual and structural problems with this argument.

First of all, how people felt in the past about the age of consent is irrelevant to the subject of what the age of consent should be today. That's an argument from antiquity or tradition, which has nothing to do with your later submitted argument from biology. There's a big problem there in that we actually know more about biological development today than people did in the 1850s...

Secondly, people are not fully matured even on a simple biological level at 14. Puberty does not end until age 16 on average (source:Â http://www.pamf.org/parenting-teens/heal...rowth.html). And there are many more ways to mature aside from puberty (neurological development takes much longer for instance).

Finally, your entire post is off the topic of "how to cope with minors doing things adults shouldn't see" and has instead chosen to defend the idea of adults seeing these things. I am not talking about what the age of consent would be in Eorzea. We aren't talking about realistic RP or what we personally think the age of consent should be. I appreciate the discussion, but this is not the place for advocating for lowering the age of consent to 14.

sforze · **03-04-2015, 06:43 PM**

I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make by pointing out that imbalance is universal (that's right, I agree...), so if I missed something here, feel free to correct me or add what you meant to say.

But...of course there are moral components to sex to consider. If a person is 18, but found to be severely mentally handicapped, their body is physically "ready" if they've gone through puberty, but I think you could agree that it's probably not right to have sex with them when you examine other factors outside of pure "biology". If a person is 10 and is experiencing early onset puberty, I don't think you would encourage an adult to have sex with them despite the "nature" of their physiological development. If we can agree on that much, then we basically can agree that putting so much emphasis on physical development is a very, very small part of the picture and that there are other important factors to consider.

That having been said, and a bit more on the original subject -- people can, ultimately, play how they like and what they like. My opinion is just one of many. But I'm in agreeance that I'd probably avoid it myself as much as possible.

Coatleque · **03-04-2015, 06:51 PM**

(03-04-2015, 06:37 PM)Presidio Wrote: ... your entire post is off the topic of "how to cope with minors doing things adults shouldn't see" ...

...this is not the place for pedophilia apologetics.

On the contrary, my post was aimed at causing you to perhaps stop and think about why this is even an issue in your mind. Nowhere in my posts have I condoned pedophilia, at all. And your libelous accusation is incredibly offensive.

Naunet · **03-04-2015, 06:59 PM**

(03-04-2015, 05:31 PM)Coatleque Wrote: Before then, you were almost a full adult by 14. Â That is when biology naturally takes over. Â That is when nature intended the human species to be mature. Â If a child is not emotionally developed enough to handle life by then, it is society's/the parent's fault, not nature. Â Not the Government.

Er...

The human brain isn't fully developed until late 20s/early 30s. It is very much notÂ society/parent's fault if a kid's not emotionally developed enough to "handle life" by the time they're 14.

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