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E'irawen · **03-11-2015, 01:32 PM**

I'd like to state again that absolutely all of this is nothing but brainstorming. I haven't RPed any of this at all, nor brought it up to anyone before posting it here on the RPC. Â (That being said, also, my reply is not intended to be angry or rude, just explaining!)

I do agree, I feel like a lot of people use fantasia "accidents" as a sort of cop out to race change, but I'd also like to point out that there aren't very many options available to roleplayers, lore wise, that don't already bend a lot of rules or use unestablished ideas if someone does want to change their character. Â On that same coin, too, I don't feel like I should be forced to play an alt in RP just because the game updates.

Some examples of the above include, like I said, fantasia. But I also remember that when 2.0 was launched and a lot of new options available (female highlanders, female roes, male miqotes) that a lot of people used the story of "Well when my character was taken through the time warp, some shit went wrong and now they're this thing instead" Â It's never been established in lore and to some people that may have felt like a cheesy option to go with, but they're limited in their options. I think it would suck if someone has to force themselves to stay something they're not interested in anymore (and don't have fun with) just because of the peer pressure. So I think it's sort of a delicate balancing issue.

So far for Au Ra, I have held a discussion about this on tumblr: Rpers have mentioned using glamours to hide their race because of the racism and stigma Eorzean society has against them, and they will reveal themselves come 3.0. I've also heard stories with something about being possessed by a dravanian/dragon soul or something. There were a lot of ideas. Â (thankfully nobody's popped in with "I'm Shiva's baby" so y'know that's always a plus.)

Also Warren you posted like as I hit reply so: I can see your point, but I also say that maybe she has her own reasons? I dunno. Glamouring seems relatively easy for people though, given how many times it happens during the storyline and junk. So i'd imagine Au Ra or any other race would have just as easy a time.

As it stands, I'm happy to get ideas from people and suggestions, but I'm not going to change the fact that I want Ophelia to be the one to be an Au Ra, and I don't think it is appropriate at this time to just retcon that she's been a Miqo'te all this time and expect people to suddenly be "oh okay." Â It isn't really fair to other RPers. Maybe some of the friends she's made don't like Au Ri or dragons or anything like that, which would mean their reaction to her would have been entirely different.

So yeah I know some of this is a stretch, that's why I'm here.

Warren Castille · **03-11-2015, 01:44 PM**

(03-11-2015, 01:32 PM)Fai Wrote: So far for Au Ra, I have held a discussion about this on tumblr: Rpers have mentioned using glamours to hide their race because of the racism and stigma Eorzean society has against them, and they will reveal themselves come 3.0. I've also heard stories with something about being possessed by a dravanian/dragon soul or something. There were a lot of ideas. Â (thankfully nobody's popped in with "I'm Shiva's baby" so y'know that's always a plus.)

Also Warren you posted like as I hit reply so: I can see your point, but I also say that maybe she has her own reasons? I dunno. Glamouring seems relatively easy for people though, given how many times it happens during the storyline and junk. So i'd imagine Au Ra or any other race would have just as easy a time.

I want to expand on this because in my heart, I am a metagaming powergaming tabletop story destroyer. I'm going to spin a lot of hypothetical here so I should be easy to dismiss.

To my knowledge, the only people we see under sustained glamour is the enemy during the Coerthas arc who "turns" into a dragon and, by proxy, the heretics in Stone Vigil who also transform into aevis. The only other forms of glamour that I can think of comes from levequests, where you are tasked with using powder on disguised enemies, and during the Hildibrand story. I'm not sure if they ever overtly call that glamour, though, and just allude to the culprit being a master of disguise.

Anyway, here's where it gets questionable for me: Similar to fantasia being use to change race involuntarily, glamour becomes immensely horrifying as it becomes freely available. If it is as easy to come across as you'd think, there's no doubt that anyone of importance would have been long, long assassinated by spies posing as well-meaning friends. A fake Raubahn to kill the Sultana, a fake Sultana to kill Raubahn, any Maelstrom leaders to off Merlwyb, etcetera. As soon as glamour becomes freely available to so many hidden people, the Garleans win, plain and simple, the war is over years ago. The MSQ already revealed there are spies in high places.

My issue with so many advocating the idea of "I've always been X, I just illusioned myself into being Y" is that it's just... well, cheap. What happens to the horns? Is it just illusion, like the kind used by imps during leves? Has your character ever been in a fight? Imp glamour immediately dispels when disrupted physically.

Maybe your glamour is actual metamorphoses then? Okay... What's the point of fantasia again, if we have sustainable magic able to change your body? Is it only temporary? If so, it's awfully convenient to only have it wear off when in private.

I know it sounds like I'm just frowning on this, but that's because I am I do have a small idea. The base character you're wanting to change, you mentioned they only have been used in small circles? Consider just plain retconning him, then. That's what lots of people did for 1.0>2.0 and it worked mostly because of the real world time gap. If the only folks you've roleplayed with are cool with it, it's a lot easier to say they are and have always been an Au Ra then it is to suddenly change and backpedal to explain it.

If that's not an option... Have you considered just changing the base character anyway and then turning that identity into an NPC? Again, if it's a small circle it might not be unbearable. Relegate them to skype sessions or something.

I mean, ultimately it's up to you, but I hate to see such a flimsy justification get used when you're strongly attached and set upon only having a few characters. A strong foundation is important for longstays, and this isn't one in my opinion.

allgivenover · **03-11-2015, 01:54 PM**

You can get around that by having the origin of the glamour a mystery for now, with the intent of it never being reproducable by current magitek.
Not hard for me to swallow at all given the absolutley crazy magitek feats the Allagans demonstrate in second and final coil.Â

Makes it more difficult to work with in open RP, but I think it could be done positively.

Sorry if I'm derailing Â your thread with specific details Fai.

Aya · **03-11-2015, 02:03 PM**

Honestly, if it involves having to twist and turn to try to justify, cover, and make right, it probably is not worth doing.Â What's the purpose of the convoluted, perhaps hard-to-swallow story in the end?Â

If you're really inspired by the idea of an Ishgardian blooded Au Ra there may be a way to do it, but I just feel like the current idea is too much.Â Do you really want to explain this to everyone who asks where your character is from?Â The power in a backstory is not in how unlikely and unusual it is, but in how it allows us to relate to a character and understand from whence they came in a way that helps further immerse us in and enrich the world in which we RP.

I'm also with Warren in that Fantasia and Glamours, if they exist at all ICly, should be underplayed because their effects are inherently immersion breaking (I know I've made this point before, and really I will do my best to accommodate people who really want to RP something, but its unfortunate when it has to come at the expense of my own immersion).

Lastly, I know people are excited about Au Ra, and I am all for brainstorming, but we honestly have no idea who they are, or where they come from yet.Â It really feels too early to me.

E'irawen · **03-11-2015, 02:04 PM**

@ Rakka: You're fine, it's all good.

It's honestly why I came here asking questions, because I know glamours and Fantasia aren't very "Good" options in this instance, but at the same rate, they're kind of the only methods available?

And no, she hasn't been used in just small circles is what I meant. Sorry if I wasn't clear. She's been used pretty extensively up until the last month or so at least, in open RP. Not just with friends. Besides, to retcon her entirety just feels weird to me, too. If she's been an Au Ra, which noone in society seems to think is okay, how do I possibly explain how she's been treated so well by others up until now? Â So no, I don't want to (nor can I) retcon her entire history to change her race.

On the subject of glamour, maybe it isn't so easy to come by or do. Maybe it took a lot of string pulling or something for her father to get someone to pull this off? I suppose I used the wrong words in my last post. Â It might not be entirely easy to come by, but once you do have it available, it would be easy to use. Maybe that's why Yugiri doesn't have a glamour? She has no access to it. Or maybe she is still proud of her race/dignity/etc.

My goal for this is to make the story I posted in my OP work, but work relatively logically and not like.. cheap/boring. I posted my questions because I'm looking for assistance in brainstorming ideas.

Verad · **03-11-2015, 02:36 PM**

(03-11-2015, 10:45 AM)Fai Wrote: 1.) Â The "likelihood" of Hyur as an Ishgardian? (I was informed that there are hyur that are born in Ishgard and that they are in good standing with the Elezen there, that some even hold positions of power and all are generally very well respected.) Â I ask about this in regards to Midlander Hyur Male.

2.) How likely is it for him to be of relatively higher social status there, mostly due to respect and such for his actions int he field? (I never really looked into making his pedigree so I'm not sure how nobility or anything works in Ishgard.)

3.) Somewhat related to #2: I know most of the stuff out here is Dragoon related. If he does have a high respect because of his actions in battle, is it better story-wise if he was a Dragoon, or can he remain a War/Pld? Â

4.) Because of Ishgards hatred for Dravanian/Dragons/whatever the proper term is here, it's highly likely that if this Hyur loved and married an Au Ri that Isghard would be like aw hell no and stuff, right? Â (I'm aware there isn't much lore for Au Ra yet so I am treading lightly on this and not really setting any of this stuff in stone until I can hopefully get more info).

5.) The idea was that this characters mother (Who I've never RPed in the picture much as it is) was hauled off after her relationship with this Hyur was known. The fact there was offspring wasn't known, so the Father fled to Limsa with the child. Â (Remarrying and such early on in the child's life, leaving her with the history I've already written out on her wiki). SO, with this knowledge, I wondered if Fantasia-ing is a legit RP thing in most circles (I have seen it RPed, but mostly in smaller friend circles. But, basically, this would be a thing in all circles I RP her in so...)

The idea with that was that she was Fantasia'd as a baby for her own safety. To be honest I have no explanation as to why she'd be fantasia'd into a Miqo'te and not a Hyur (her original history/story is that she is half hyur, half sunseeker) beyond "oops that didn't go totally as planned".

1. 35% likely
2. 10% likely
3. Yes.
4. Choose whatever has the potential to make the character more miserable.
5. Yes, people tend to RP Fantasia-induced character changes.

Erik Mynhier · **03-11-2015, 02:43 PM**

(03-11-2015, 01:44 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(03-11-2015, 01:32 PM)Fai Wrote: So far for Au Ra, I have held a discussion about this on tumblr: Rpers have mentioned using glamours to hide their race because of the racism and stigma Eorzean society has against them, and they will reveal themselves come 3.0. I've also heard stories with something about being possessed by a dravanian/dragon soul or something. There were a lot of ideas. Â (thankfully nobody's popped in with "I'm Shiva's baby" so y'know that's always a plus.)

Also Warren you posted like as I hit reply so: I can see your point, but I also say that maybe she has her own reasons? I dunno. Glamouring seems relatively easy for people though, given how many times it happens during the storyline and junk. So i'd imagine Au Ra or any other race would have just as easy a time.

I want to expand on this because in my heart, I am a metagaming powergaming tabletop story destroyer. I'm going to spin a lot of hypothetical here so I should be easy to dismiss.

To my knowledge, the only people we see under sustained glamour is the enemy during the Coerthas arc who "turns" into a dragon and, by proxy, the heretics in Stone Vigil who also transform into aevis. The only other forms of glamour that I can think of comes from levequests, where you are tasked with using powder on disguised enemies, and during the Hildibrand story. I'm not sure if they ever overtly call that glamour, though, and just allude to the culprit being a master of disguise.

Anyway, here's where it gets questionable for me: Similar to fantasia being use to change race involuntarily, glamour becomes immensely horrifying as it becomes freely available. If it is as easy to come across as you'd think, there's no doubt that anyone of importance would have been long, long assassinated by spies posing as well-meaning friends. A fake Raubahn to kill the Sultana, a fake Sultana to kill Raubahn, any Maelstrom leaders to off Merlwyb, etcetera. As soon as glamour becomes freely available to so many hidden people, the Garleans win, plain and simple, the war is over years ago. The MSQ already revealed there are spies in high places.

My issue with so many advocating the idea of "I've always been X, I just illusioned myself into being Y" is that it's just... well, cheap. What happens to the horns? Is it just illusion, like the kind used by imps during leves? Has your character ever been in a fight? Imp glamour immediately dispels when disrupted physically.

Maybe your glamour is actual metamorphoses then? Okay... What's the point of fantasia again, if we have sustainable magic able to change your body? Is it only temporary? If so, it's awfully convenient to only have it wear off when in private.

I know it sounds like I'm just frowning on this, but that's because I am I do have a small idea. The base character you're wanting to change, you mentioned they only have been used in small circles? Consider just plain retconning him, then. That's what lots of people did for 1.0>2.0 and it worked mostly because of the real world time gap. If the only folks you've roleplayed with are cool with it, it's a lot easier to say they are and have always been an Au Ra then it is to suddenly change and backpedal to explain it.

If that's not an option... Have you considered just changing the base character anyway and then turning that identity into an NPC? Again, if it's a small circle it might not be unbearable. Relegate them to skype sessions or something.

I mean, ultimately it's up to you, but I hate to see such a flimsy justification get used when you're strongly attached and set upon only having a few characters. A strong foundation is important for longstays, and this isn't one in my opinion.

I "echo" (see what I did there?) Warren's concerns. I don't want to be a wet blanket, but if I'm being honest, all the announced Au Ra "accidental glamours" I've been hearing from players makes me cringe a bit. I'm going to log in one day in June and POP..... there were 100+ Auri all hiding in Ul'dah and no one noticed and they all decided to come out all at once.... ugh.

If I had the strong want to change my main, and I understand that feeling, I would honestly kill him. I get wanting to play the fun new thing but NOT wanting to undo or start over with all your character has achieved and unlocked. The best course I would think is buy a fantasia, a name change, and run an epic story between now and 3.0 where your character sacrifices themselves for friends/GC/FC/the world and let them go with honor and dignity. Then go to a quiet place, change your character and start over rp wise with friends who already know you and will help you along. But that's just my opinion.

E'irawen · **03-11-2015, 02:49 PM**

thank you for everyone's input, i think i have the answers i needed now. Not the ones i was hoping for, but I guess the ones that I needed. I admit, I feel kind of stupid at this point because with all of this, in hindsight, it seems like a stupid idea. Â I don't want to kill off ophelia, but i don't want to make a new Rp character (i don't care about the game unlocks or achievements, i have no issue levelling a new character). I just don't want a new RP character and for whatever reason had a strong desire to make Ophelia the au ra, but, I don't think I want to anymore.

Aya · **03-11-2015, 02:52 PM**

There's nothing stupid about any of it!Â Its creative, and its interesting to toss about ideas!Â

Are you feeling that Ophelia is growing stale?Â Are there any avenues in her story that might be interesting to take?Â Anything from her past to revisit?Â There are always opportunities for alts and the like as well, some people like to have such a change in pace periodically to keep their interest Smile

Or is it just that Au Ra are that interesting to you? In which case maybe its worth making an Au Ra alt for a time when the expansion comes? No need to abandon or kill off Ophelia to do so!

E'irawen · **03-11-2015, 02:59 PM**

@Aya It's both. Ophelia has become very stale to RP, because to me she feels.. flat? I'm not sure the right word for it.

And her history has always been lacking and frankly, nonexistant. The story I came up with was an attempt to add history to her while giving her a story to explore that's actually interesting, while hopefully (and apparently very unsuccessfully) explaining a logical transformation into an Au Ra that wasn't people going "Whoopsy potions"

I want to keep Ophelia's personality, her talents and everything, and her teahouse. And it feels very cheap to me to make an Au Ra alt that is literally just Ophelia anyway, including a teahouse that I really love to have, and just get rid of the original Ophelia.

Aya · **03-11-2015, 03:03 PM**

Well, backstory isn't strictly necessary!Â But if you're bored with her current RP there are many ways to shake that up.Â What is it you like about the tea house in particular?Â Do you have any thoughts or plans for it?Â Its in Aleport right? (full disclosure: you know I love the tea house!)

E'irawen · **03-11-2015, 03:14 PM**

The teahouse is something Ophelia made because she loves to help and take care of others. She made the tea-tavern specifically to have high quality drinks and home styled cooked foods at lower prices for weary travellers, and made sure to include an inn. (the only consistent part of her history was that she had a comfortable inheritance, most of which was spent to build the tea tavern). I don't want to give that up. I legit do not see a point in making an Ophelia clone who happens to have a teahouse just so I can be an au ra.

Edit: Right, plans. It's mainly a cozy RP spot for those who used to tell me they'd never go to a more bar-like tavern. This was sort of like an 'upscale' bar..ish. Bakery..restaraunt whatever. It welcomes everyone. My plans in the future included actually RP employees as well as events/performances/etc.

I honestly am still very set (apparently, despite my earlier moment of discouragement in another post) to change her. I really, really want to do it. I just wanted to do it in a way that wouldn't rustle too many jimmies and didn't seem stupid. The only main trick to it was explaining why she'd been a miqo'te all this time to begin with.

Aya · **03-11-2015, 03:18 PM**

I love the tea house, no need to convince me of that ^_^

If you're that set on the change, and you think it will make the game that much more enjoyable for you, then perhaps it is best just to go ahead with it and not worry too much about the justification.Â Just shrug and offer a sly smirk if anyone asks about it!

Warren Castille · **03-11-2015, 03:19 PM**

Agreeing with Aya. At the end of the day, fuck tha police don't worry about the grognards.

[Image: XSiv0Z3.jpg]

E'irawen · **03-11-2015, 03:25 PM**

In all honesty I was kind of freaking out and stressing during the course of this thread, so I really appreciate those of you who give that sentiment. I've met a lot of people who are very firm on not letting people just kind of enjoy their hobby.

Also that's one of my favorite south park episodes/quotes so that also helped.

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Some general (Ishgard mostly) questions

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes