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Aya · **04-21-2015, 05:36 PM**

Things can't always be positive.. and I say this as someone who doesn't like negativity.Â I hope the people who have looked away don't stay away.Â Its easier just to avoid controversial topics, I think, there's so much good stuff and discussion on the RPC that isn't controversial or heated, and its a shame to miss out on that!

Val · **04-21-2015, 05:40 PM**

It's certainly noticed. I tend to offer my opinions on subjects and I try my best to respect those of others, but if I see a topic going entirely south I'll bail out. I also admit I lurk more than I actually post here now and stick to a few in game friends. I'll try to branch out and get in touch with those I've been trying to RP with for forever now once these courses end.

My general response when someone resorts to snide remarks is to ultimately ignore them. As others have pointed out, that can be hard to do. If I simply disagree with the individual, I will tell them so and am more than willing to let it be that.

I don't see the need to stop RPing/talking to people simply because you don't agree with the same points as them. There are plenty of people I speak with on regular basis that I don't agree with. So long as you respect the person's beliefs, I don't see any reason for malice.

K'nahli · **04-21-2015, 05:54 PM**

I must admit, this topic itself made me a bit wary but I suppose it has good intentions.

I will say it now though, to anyone and everyone, be especially wary about your choice of wording. Strongly disagreeing or being passionate about one philosophy or another is totally fine so long as you don't neglect your responsibility to do your best to not come off as offensive to the other party. If people keep choosing to test the limits of how far they can push rude or unnecessarily, negative remarks then you will soon find that there will be a lot less leniency for what is considered tolerable content - and no-one likes strict rules or moderation, so please consider what effects your actions may have on everyone else and not just yourself.

Oscare · **04-21-2015, 06:08 PM**

A lot of it has to do with the recent uprising of Heavenward information.

There's been a lot of disagreements over many things, most namely Dark Knight. All the aggression in those threads leaked onto other, unrelated to Heavenward threads. With the actual release of the expansion, most of it will (hopefully) die down. But yeah, not everything can always be positive like Aya said.Â

The best thing to do is just step away from the places that are heated and enjoy the things that aren't.

Parvacake · **04-21-2015, 06:09 PM**

Tone through text is a huge thing, since at times it is very much hit or miss. But yeah, some people I notice are just pretty blatant in their passive aggression or can't admit they come that way to other people even when approached about it.

From the time I created DOVE to the time I retired, I can honestly say 3/4 of the guild population at any given time avoided the RPC in large part for this very reason. Either they had seen it themselves by lurking as a 'guest' or heard about it enough times to stay away. I'll admit there are times I just don't post for a while and look instead for the sake of not running into those kind of situations.

Opinions are lovely. We all have them. This is a forum, after all, but all too often I notice people abuse the fact this is the internet and that behind the screens we're all people too.

Kyrio Lamansque · **04-21-2015, 06:21 PM**

I'll admit it. Things that are kinda... deep? I tend to just not go into. I tend to try to get a general idea of lore, so I can make characters that makes sense, but situations like those being spoken of above would be a reason why I don't try to become well-versed. Because if I felt like I knew everything, I'd try to express it. And I know from experience from past games, when someone tries to play the schoolmarm, bad things just happen.Â

It's just a game.Â

It's a game we all play in.Â

And generally speaking, we're friends.Â

Can't we all just get along?

Kellach Woods · **04-21-2015, 06:31 PM**

I've no idea why I keep coming back to these forums.

RP I've gotten because of these forums? None. I got into a RP FC by virtue of my ass needing some schooling on how to WAR proper after I posted in the FFXIV Discussion forum, joining a OOC linkshell.

Comments I've gotten on wiki/IC writing on these forums? Only one, and while it made my day, I've gotten nothing from anything I produced past Sept. 30th which is the majority of the developments made to the character post getting fired.

The RP/FFXIV discussion forums used to be useful, but are filled with so much inane snark that I see no point in continuing to contribute anything, not that I had good contributions before as most of my best posts are kinda shitposting.

Hell, the only interaction I have with anyone here is yelling at Warren from time to time and the Compliment thread at this point. I get the feeling that if I were to join now it'd be extremely difficult to break into anything that's ongoing because nobody gives a fuck about less established folks.

Can this forum have a point again? Not unless people step up. Least I can do is curtail my shitposting and other than this post I'll certainly try to do that.

Aduu Avagnar · **04-21-2015, 06:36 PM**

I would hope that no one takes any of my posts in an aggressive or offensive manner? I am the kind of person who likes to use a basis of realism and build up the fantasticalness from there, so I do look at the whys and wherefores to build from. Including the way that different weapons work etc.

But I certainly don't ever try to be offensive or agressive. And if I am, it tends to be /very/ obvious.

Maia · **04-21-2015, 06:39 PM**

I think the RPC is a great place for people to gather and meet one another, advertise events, and the like, so I'm actually quite a huge fan of the site!

I do tend to stay out of most threads, though, because things do seem to get... not chillax? High tension? Unfortunately, the RPC lore threads (or really any thread involving opinions) seem to have a bit of a reputation these days.

Sometimes I'll be genuinely interested in a thread and everyone's opinions, but usually by the second page it's devolved from discussion to heated/personal debates, and I wander off. But I don't blame the site for this, and I'm at least world-minded enough to be aware that a few bad eggs don't represent an entire group of people. I think it's actually pretty much inevitable, due to the size and magnitude of the site itself. We have so many different people gathered here, and all of them bring different opinions in regard to forum etiquette. Some think that you should be polite and respectful at all times, while others think that being blunt and honest is the best way.

But the grateful thing about the internet is that you really can just close the browser and walk away. Find the people who are like you (in my case, 'chillax'/understanding/respectful people) and hold onto them.

***Maril*** · **04-21-2015, 06:59 PM**

Honestly, most of my guildee's avoid the RPC because of it's reputation for drama and fights. Save for the start of the relaunch I can't think of a time where I haven't heard someone say "oh I don't go there because I heard.." - Many times they haven't even seen it themselves, they just assume. It's also part thanks to the fact that almost all RP-community websites end up toxic at one point or another, some of the worst cases I've witness has had biased corruption in the staff/mod-group as well, to the point of refusing to ban a clearly abusive user because they were picking on someone they didn't like anyways. As far as I can tell stuff doesn't get abused here when it comes to modpowers anyways, something I'm really happy about.Â

And those who aren't avoiding the site because of it's reputation, are not using it because when you first come here it really seems like a site for NA people only - which is obviously because my fc is an EU one and that. Heck when I came here myself I was confused about that too in the start. But that's #justeupeoplestuff.Â

Anyways. I have noticed the increase in agression here, but I certainly also have noticed it in-game. I recently left a linkshell - not going to mention names - which used to be friendly, but has become worse over time. One evening there was a bunch of people bashing on heavy-rpers for being too serious/elitist/etc and it just got a bit much. Might seem like an over-reaction on my part, but honestly I don't want to expose myself to more of that kind of toxicity than what I can't avoid. It's no secret that roleplayers often disagree about things but it's gotten a bit OTT recently.

When it comes to this site I just try to stay out of ticking-bomb threads or, alternatively abandon them when they start to become toxic or excessively passive-aggressive. To the point of not even reading them, because it's just going to end up ruffling feathers.

Warren Castille · **04-21-2015, 07:04 PM**

Roleplayers are, at their core, driven by vanity. I know that sounds harsh, but consider: If we weren't attempting to have any sense of recognition or popularity or integrate into any larger community we wouldn't be RPing in public. Unless you only write in a private blog (at which point you won't see this post) or you only RP in party away from the public eye (hello, ERP and lurker friends) you're doing things in public. You're acting. Actors and actresses need an audience.

There's nothing wrong with this! People are social creatures - we want to fit in, we want to be accepted. That's sort of the crux of all of this, though: When we do things that might not be accepted (or off-canon, or a little out there, or any other RP-specific term) we get worried. We get defensive. We put a lot of thought into our characters and what makes them people. When someone you don't know comes in out of nowhere and tells you that no, your character can't be This Thing because of This Reason, we don't want to have wasted our time. We don't want to be "wrong." In the court of public opinions, which all communities are ruled by whether we want them to be or not, we don't want to be guilty of being "wrong."

So we argue. We argue about validity, we argue about veracity. We find our opinions, we root our characters in them, and we defend those ideas regardless. Sometimes we find we were incorrect and change. Sometimes there's no real reason for it, so we tell the world that NO, we are NOT wrong, YOU can't prove it. We tell people reasons why they shouldn't like That Thing and we point out that This Other Thing is a better choice. We attempt to iron out the parts that stick up.

I don't believe in the Populars Illuminati. I don't believe in there being any sort of intentional motive to force people out, or to stonewall new players. I understand there's a feeling of... Well, I can't quite articulate it. I will say I cringe a little when the word "celebrity" gets brought up, though. It has a lot to do with 1) Join Date and 2) Those stupid green numbers that don't really mean anything.

I'm getting a bit rambly a sort of far of field here... I think that ultimately the arguments come from either wanting cohesion amongst all of us roleplaying (impossible, for the record) or we want to at least mesh with the people we find agreeable. Most of the time I try to keep my tone to respectful in the face of disagreement, but lately my tempers been... Well, it's been. It's ugly and doesn't belong here. I worry a bit about the tone here, and reading that some people have been scared away or just found it distasteful? I'm a vain person, and I worry if (how much) my bluntness (and dickitude) has contributed to making this place less welcoming. For my part I've always tried to have rational discussion, and that's slipped a lot as of late.

At the end of the day we're all writing fan fiction. We shouldn't take it so seriously.

Domri Blackblade · **04-21-2015, 07:07 PM**

My solution.

Ciel · **04-21-2015, 07:11 PM**

Just my two gil here...

I lurk for the most part, and I'm careful about what threads I respond to because it's almost impossible to have a civilized discussion on the internet without it devolving into a flame war.Â It's easy to hide behind the anonymity of a screen and say things which wouldn't normally be said directly to a person's face, including trying to override another person's opinion about anything by insisting they're wrong.Â It can be passive-aggressive, or straight up targeted, aggressive, and insulting.

There are countless ways to interpret anything, be it someone's intention, bits of lore (in many cases on here), or even whether or not there is a tone or an intention of negativity behind someone's words.Â There are no winning arguments on the internet, only opinions perceived as wrong when they disagree with your own.

If I feel like I have anything to say, I'll post it and move on rather than open myself to the obvious negativity some people feel obligated to throw about.Â Very seldom will I revisit the same thread twice for that very reason.

As for being ignored, I'm rather used to it and it doesn't disappoint or insult me if it happens.Â Honestly, I'd rather have my posts ignored wholly and get drowned out than get attacked for whatever perceived value, or lack thereof, my words might hold.

Cliodhna Eoghan · **04-21-2015, 08:46 PM**

(04-21-2015, 05:07 PM)OttoVann Wrote: The only thing I can "point out" is that from what I've seen, a lot of people that aren't 'old-crowd' RPC members are straight ignored in any discussion that lasts more than 2 pages, the 'old-crowd' people seemingly talk back and forth only while the rest just sort of speak to the void.

this right here bothers me. granted i try to usually stay out of a lot of the more heated debates (both on the rpc and in linkshells in game) but i will state i've noticed this as well and it's a bit disheartening.

there was a point early on where i was very close to quitting the game. it was hard for me to talk to some, i didn't rp much due to an overall feeling of not belonging and i spent most days running as much content as i could alone. if it weren't for people like chachan and kurt; i probably would have quit or in the very least changed to a non rp server and just continued on with content because i would have felt bad after the trouble erik when through to get me a copy. but the people here and the events posted here that i started going to; those made me feel more included and like it was okay to bring clio out more. (warren even had a sit down with me for about a week helping me hammer out my monthly event) since that point i remember what it was like starting out and i go out of my way i don't know how many times to try and help people (strangers in game, new to the rpc or friends)

now after that, it makes me worry how many people didn't get the happier experience i ended up with and what helped me along to keep playing. how many were instead getting just one bad experience after another until they let their sub run out? yes there are some that are going to be unwilling to accept help or advice regardless of how nice it's being presented, but instead of arguing....we could try to just end the discussion and take a step back. end of the day they pay their sub to enjoy the game, just like we pay ours. if someone isn't okay with how another rp's, then try to not rp with them, at least not anything major to their personal plot.

but to the ones trying to reach out and make friends/ask advice, i feel it should be given freely without negative feelings. there's no need to get onto them them for simply not knowing.

if no one takes a chance on new people; more and more bad feelings fester and everyone misses out on fun and imaginative things.

those are my feels anyway....
*slinks back to lurking*

Erik Mynhier · **04-21-2015, 08:58 PM**

(04-21-2015, 04:58 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: So. How many people are thinking it?

Do you know if any people are considering avoiding RPC because of it?

WHY IS IT HAPPENING?!

What's with all the recent aggression in so many threads lately?! Disagreeing on a topic is fine. Having a debate doesn't need to have a "losing" side. Opinions are OPINIONS. They cannot be considered "wrong". (Maybe informed, but that's an opinion!)

There's been a noticeable trend lately in newer threads that there needs to be some "correct" interpretation to EVERYTHING. Honestly, it's kinda sickening. Why is there this massive push for everything to be 100% compatible with everything else? Am I really speaking only for myself when I say "we're roleplayers playing in a make-believe game"? There can be disagreements. There can be differing levels of realism. The word "Fantasy" is in the title of the game we play! I'm sure everyone has some level of realism they want to play in. There are -how- many active users in the forums? 100% compliance across the board just isn't gonna happen.

For the most established members, remember when we held actual discussion instead of arguing a petty point until the mods needed to delete posts or lock a thread? They shouldn't need to do that. They're people too. And they've got opinions as well. Can't we (as a community) be a LOT more respectable to each other? If there's a post/thread you don't like, exercise some restraint. An argument on the internet isn't going to suddenly make Square Enix change their minds on a design decision.

It's even stated in the rules of the site. Own your words. Please. I'm begging. If you don't think you can keep the peace, then please don't derail a thread's topic or post otherwise aggressive comments. Can't we get along AND be in disagreement if necessary?

edit: I should state directly. I like being on the RPC. I'm not considering leaving, but I have seen related posts by people who used to ocme on here who frequent less and less due to the drama, which is greatly upsetting.

You know in the last week I have had 8 conversations with 8 different people where this came up (I did not bring it up). Many I have heard this from note the toxic behavior of a few and an inability to understand why the toxic people are not shown the door. Odd that this comes up now.

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Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately?

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