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SM Nick · **06-30-2015, 11:13 PM**

(06-30-2015, 11:01 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: [[steps in a as mod this time]]

Everyone, be nice.

Insulting others and demeaning threads is against the rules.

If you can't post something without an insult or harsh words, I would urge that you try to revise your writings or take a step back.

If there's an offending post, please use the REPORT POST button. It looks like a little rocket ship. Do not engage in insulting other people's views.

[[puts the mod things away]]

Now as a user, I'd actually be pretty interested in the language differences. Not just between Japanese/English, but between them all. I know a little bit of this cropped up during some of the 2.5/2.55 dialogue because the English was quite....specialized and had a lot of implied meanings, whereas the other languages were much more concise and direct.

A comparison of the different finalized forms of the scripts could be very interesting. Of course, a literal translation from one to each would likely be quite different from the script we've come to read throughout the game. Different cultures and values. Not to mention colloquial phrases, slang, etc.

Thank you sir. I can adapt the dialogue to whatever is appropriate. I just wanna know the comparison in the dialogue between languages.

Spinach · **07-01-2015, 02:02 AM**

In regards to your question, Nick, I think you should use whatever style you feel most comfortable with. If you enjoy the Game of Thrones-esque English used in the game, feel free to use it. If you find it troublesome, over the top, and difficult to grasp, feel free to modernise it to any degree it takes to make your writing flow more freely. I understand your desire to make sure your writing will please your primary audience, but people will have gripes about and find enjoyment in whatever you write, however you write it. That being the case, consider what will be easier and/or more fun for you to write up.

That's my advice, at least. No matter what you choose do do, best of luck! I look forward to reading it!

Clover · **07-01-2015, 04:48 AM**

(06-30-2015, 09:46 PM)Kaniko Niko Wrote: While I cannot rightly deny that the overall recording and voice acting of the Japanese version tends to be more polished in spots than the English version, to disregard the scope of effort that went into capturing the very essence of what the narrative calls for in the English version: the accents, the startlingly correct period-English, the transliteration of tropes into their Occidental counterparts...

I'll say it again. It stinks of weeaboo.

First of all, I must clarify that I'm Spanish. This means that the English version is not a holy bible for me; it's just a translation, and not even the only translation. Now, on to the matter.

I don't really know what kind of effort to "capture the very essence of what the narrative calls" is being made, considering that the English version is taking all kinds of liberties. From removing the intimacy from certain sentences to changing the characters' personalities. I'm not even talking about simple cases like "nani?" being mistranslated, albeit those annoy me a lot as well.

If they want to adapt the text to old-English, fantastic-English, British-English, or whatever this English is (that I don't know because English is not my main language), I'm sure there are ways to do that without making up most of the dialogue. All many people want is to know what the characters are actually saying, that's all. This goes for any translation that's made from one language to another.

(What is a weeaboo anyway? Someone who has a preference for Japan because they generally like the way Japan does things? Sue me and count me in! This is a Japanese game, after all).

Bryn · **07-01-2015, 07:12 AM**

There is no such thing as a general 'British accent'. Britain claims dozens, if not hundreds of unique localized dialects, some very similar, and many radically different.

The archaic language in FFXIV's English dialogue, which, as far as I can tell, is all genuinely pulled from actual usage in older English, I personally find to be wonderfully fitting. I am British myself, however, so perhaps I would naturally be more comfortable with phrases such as 'Is aught amiss?' (which is a phrase still used in some areas in the UK, by the way), than our friends-across-the-pond might be.

These terms and phrases are obviously used to enhance FFXIV's setting, as Eorzea is a pseudo-medieval fantasy society, the langauge is altered accordingly for the sake of immersion.

However, much like in Britain, Eorzea has a wide range of accents and dialects, too. Compare, say, Urianger to Biggs. They are worlds apart, not inly in terms of vocabulary, but in accent. This generally serves not only to demarcate the different regional origins of the characters, but also their class background and general personality. There's everything from London cockney (Ul'dah and the Ala Mhigans), something that seems to be akin to a Yorkshire accent (Limsa Lominsa), and what's known as 'received pronunciation', generally considered standard English and more commonly known as the Queen's English (Garleans, Gridania).

TLDR; Eorzea's 'faux-British' accents and vocab are varied, like in actual Britain. Not all characters use the same vocabulary, so if you don't like the more archaic terms the NPCs often use, you needn't use them yourself.

Seriphyn · **07-01-2015, 07:31 AM**

(07-01-2015, 07:12 AM)Bryn Wrote: There is no such thing as a general 'British accent'. Britain claims dozens, if not hundreds of unique localized dialects, some very similar, and many radically different.

The archaic language in FFXIV's English dialogue, which, as far as I can tell, is all genuinely pulled from actual usage in older English, I personally find to be wonderfully fitting. I am British myself, however, so perhaps I would naturally be more comfortable with phrases such as 'Is aught amiss?' (which is a phrase still used in some areas in the UK, by the way), than our friends-across-the-pond might be.

These terms and phrases are obviously used to enhance FFXIV's setting, as Eorzea is a pseudo-medieval fantasy society, the langauge is altered accordingly for the sake of immersion.

However, much like in Britain, Eorzea has a wide range of accents and dialects, too. Compare, say, Urianger to Biggs. They are worlds apart, not inly in terms of vocabulary, but in accent. This generally serves not only to demarcate the different regional origins of the characters, but also their class background and general personality. There's everything from London cockney (Ul'dah and the Ala Mhigans), something that seems to be akin to a Yorkshire accent (Limsa Lominsa), and what's known as 'received pronunciation', generally considered standard English and more commonly known as the Queen's English (Garleans, Gridania).

TLDR; Eorzea's 'faux-British' accents and vocab are varied, like in actual Britain. Not all characters use the same vocabulary, so if you don't like the more archaic terms the NPCs often use, you needn't use them yourself.

By nature of my national origin, I also feel compelled to post in agreement to what Bryn has brought up above. Everything she said is true.

However, I will go one step further and declare that the current 3.0 English dialogue is flipping amazing in its authenticity, using a LOT of accurate British verbage to levels where only British players would be able to identify. For example, adding 'I reckon' to the end of sentences. The writing and structure of the dialogue is as good as it gets.

I mean, unless you guys want Texan and/or Brooklyn accents instead..."What's up buddy?!" instead of "Is aught amiss?"Â Laugh

allgivenover · **07-01-2015, 08:26 AM**

(06-30-2015, 09:52 PM)SM Nick Wrote: Look I get that it's weeaboo. ALL I am asking, is what the Japanese dialogue says, so I can find inspiration for the dialogue in my fanfic, and I just want to know. I did not ask for a dispute on the languages and dialects in this game. I just want what is different in dialogue between English and Japanese. I like these disputes, but still.

If it's for a fanfic that's going to be written in English I'd just stay with the English dialogue and not worry about what's going on in the Japanese language script.

If you try to make it modern or use a "literal translation" of what's being said in the Japanese version it will be unreadable or so strange that people will be put off and stop reading.

The fans who read it are in the majority going to find the English script more familiar, thus your fanfic will feel more authentic if you use it. Not using it will get people to shelve it.

Other than that there's really no easy way to go about comparing it other than re-watching the cutscenes with the client set to Japanese - you do this by clicking the dropdown marked "English" in the launcher's bottom right corner and selecting Japanese instead. This will set the language of all the text in the client to Japanese.

EDIT: Referring to using a "literal translation" for dialogue being strange or unreadable, I mean instead of people asking "Is aught amiss?" as they do in the English version they might say "Something is yes wrong?"

Max · **07-01-2015, 09:28 AM**

I mean, it's a fanfic. You should just write the prose you're most comfortable with. Even if it sounds too modernized.

Also, couldn't you just ask for a 'simpler' translation of the English dialogue? I think that would be much easier for us to assist you with, as opposed to limiting yourself to 'literal translations' from the Japanese audio. I'm assuming most of us can't understand Japanese, but the lot of us would be able to convey the point of certain English lines that have you confused.

To echo Allgivenover above, a direct translation would come out strange and illegible -- surely not of grammatical quality for inspirational purposes. It would be like google translate.

FreelanceWizard · **07-01-2015, 09:36 AM**

As a somewhat off-topic point of note on "thee," "thou," and other older English constructs in the EN localization, Fernehalwes talks about that a little in the context of Midgardsormr:

Quote:A being that has lived several ages in Eorzea will most likely have picked up its Eorzean long ago. Couple that with the fact that the being may not have had much in the way of communication with Eorzeans since then, making it difficult for him to pick up on more modern speech patterns. We felt that to reflect this (and the fact that they are simply very, very old beings), it would be better to give the dragons a slightly more archaic speech pattern, hence the â€˜theeâ€™s and â€˜thouâ€™s.

So, that's why primals, dragons, and so on all speak somewhat archaically -- they've been around for a long time (or, I suppose one might say, hail from the past) and largely don't interact with the mortal Sons of Man.

SM Nick · **07-01-2015, 11:58 AM**

Well I posted my first chapter finally. Link is on the fanfic thread. God I feel so tired right now.

LiadansWhisper · **07-02-2015, 07:43 PM**

(07-01-2015, 04:48 AM)Clover Wrote: First of all, I must clarify that I'm Spanish. This means that the English version is not a holy bible for me; it's just a translation, and not even the only translation. Now, on to the matter.

I'm actually not sure it's a translation. Â From what I understand, the teams actually write the dialogue in whatever language they're assigned to. Â They don't write it in one language, then translate it to another.

Cailean Lockwood · **07-02-2015, 08:07 PM**

Well, if we are going to be smallfolk, ALL Bibles other than the Latin one are just translations. ;3

LiadansWhisper · **07-02-2015, 08:32 PM**

(07-02-2015, 08:07 PM)Vachir Crimsonborn Wrote: Well, if we are going to be smallfolk, ALL Bibles other than the Latin one are just translations. ;3

Uh...you mean the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, right?

Latin was a translation from those three languages. Â Smile

Cailean Lockwood · **07-02-2015, 08:34 PM**

(07-02-2015, 08:32 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(07-02-2015, 08:07 PM)Vachir Crimsonborn Wrote: Well, if we are going to be smallfolk, ALL Bibles other than the Latin one are just translations. ;3

Uh...you mean the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, right?

Latin was a translation from those three languages. Â

Awww, don't ruin my bad joke. D:

Poll: So what should I do concerning dialogue You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Use exact dialogue with mods.	18.18%	2	18.18%
Try to make it modern	27.27%	3	27.27%
Both 1 and 2	54.55%	6	54.55%
Total		11 vote(s)	100%

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Comparison of Dialogue

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