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Nanapariri · **03-17-2010, 09:17 PM**

Castiel Wrote:Perhaps we shouldn't be using the term "standards" and instead use "etiquette?" I think maybe that's why people are getting the wrong impression of a RP police force. It's not like anyone would get hung out at the gallows if they deviated from the things we set forth.

Quote:A Russian proverb comes to mind: "If you spit on the community, the community will cringe, but if the community spits on you, you'll drown."

I love this quote xD

Cast you aren't talking about only ettiquette when you are talking about making a standard set of rules for battle. I'm saying that we should only have players agree to etiquette in terms of treatment of eachother and how to deal with troublemakers. Then The RPC will rarely have to do anything drastic. If you get into "how to conduct a battle" or things like that you are stepping on the toes of people.

Ettiquette should matter no matter how large or small, how many guilds are envolved so "when the RPC standards kick-in" isn't an issue. No one should ever treat anyone like that whether its in a guild or between different guilds.

Castiel Wrote:I think one of the reasons I'm so pushy on this is because of Sylph's history. I've seen several RP groups sharing a server and I've seen how ugly things can get. The Starsider group is successful in part because they have a different mentality than we do. FFXI wasn't very conductive for RP and I somehow have a feeling FF14 could potentially end up similar in those regards. I'm sure we won't have any major trouble in our first 8-12 months. The beginning tends to be the "golden age" for many. But a year down the line, there's no telling whether we shrink or grow in size. And if we shrink, how competitive could things get? I guess I'm just concerned with what happens then and being prepared for when the dust finally settles. Perhaps I'm thinking way too far ahead though.

This is just what I said above you are basing everything on the mentality of the FFXI community. A mentality of a community is decided not by the way anyone in any other game does but on the players. FFXIV is a clean slate and a new game.

By expecting everyone to behave the way they did in FFXI you will be creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. People will act this way if you go into it thinking they will. I don't see a coalition mentality among any of you just a separate guild mentality and if you don't want the FFXI mentality in FFXIV you need to create a new one in FFXIV.

If the founders come into the community as a united front and promote trust the community will have that mentality as it grows. Starsider, in the begining, had some growing pains but once they figured it out they deal with problems but still remain a united community.

If you expect it to fail in a few years it will because you'll give up on it. I you try to controll thing you can't you'll give up and it will fail.

**03-17-2010, 09:17 PM**

Goodness, Tsumi, you've got this uncanny ability to channel everything I want to say and reiterate it 99% better.

Eva · **03-17-2010, 09:18 PM**

I don't expect this will be like FFXI was. I understand where Castiel is coming from with past experiences, and I was there too and I remember how policy had to be set up in order to help keep order. There were fewer people and more tensions back then. I also don't think everyone is going to just hold hands and sing kumbaya around the proverbial campfire. To be plain, there will often (if not always) be someone around that wants to do nothing more than rain on someone else's parade. It's happened in the past and having some mechanism to deal with it, I think, is a very sound idea.

And while I have checked it out and do think that the Starsider community sounds like it turned out to be quite the Utopia, for all of the reasons that you mentioned, I think we need to accept that we may be dealing with a smaller number of people and a different, albeit similar, set of issues. I do like a lot of the ideas, and if the RP community on Sylph were much larger I could see how this would have worked well for us. I think some preparation is warranted and Castiel's concerns are not without merit.

Ultimately no matter how we start off, we're going to have to make some adaptations and changes as we grow. I don't think the expectation here is that these discussions are to come up with 'standards' or 'guidelines' or 'ettiquite' or whatever term you choose to give to it are going to be set in stone. The RPC will have to adapt to the issues as they come and deal with them (or not deal with them as the case may be) accordingly.

Nanapariri · **03-17-2010, 09:19 PM**

Kes Wrote:I don't expect this will be like FFXI was. I understand where Castiel is coming from with past experiences, and I was there too and I remember how policy had to be set up in order to help keep order. There were fewer people and more tensions back then. I also don't think everyone is going to just hold hands and sing kumbaya around the proverbial campfire. To be plain, there will often (if not always) be someone around that wants to do nothing more than rain on someone else's parade. It's happened in the past and having some mechanism to deal with it, I think, is a very sound idea.

Kes I'm not saying have no guidelines I'm saying don't over-do it because of a fear that things will go wrong and the entire community will fall apart. There is a big difference between no guidelines, realistic balanced guidelines, and strict guidelines that stifle creativity. I'm just cautioning that making a lot of rules as to how someone has to RP will more than likely stifle anyone getting together across guilds. Dictating how people RP only will cause problems and discourage a large community forming. Let me try to explain with an example:

Say we have a rule that all confrontations between people in different guilds must use rolls to decide outcome.

Player A and Player B meet by chance and are RPing. They are in different guilds. A confrontation erupts and they decide they hate rolls and want to do something simple. Player C sees this and is a stickler for the rules. She /tells them "This is against the RPC Rules" they say "we don't care its just us and its not an event". Player C runs and posts a thread about the horrible and unruly people in those guilds and how they must be delt with. An arguement errupts on the forums based on difference in how the people think demanding rolls as a deciding facter ere unfair to begin with. A huge mess now has to be dealt with because the overly strict view of the rules is clashing with not strict ones. To avoid this you'd need page after page of how in this situation this applies but doesn't in the next. You are creating a lot of work for yourselves.

Let's contras the above with an actual thing that happened in Starsider over just this issue. I can't count the number of threads I've seen as to "rolls for fights suck" arguing with "PVP is the only sane way to decide on conflict" so I'm siting one I remember. There's this guy named Anishor who plays a wookie and he's a major PVP lover and been in game since its launch. He's spent tons of money on his PVP gear and feels its the only way to settle conflict. One day he ran into a player, who had been on just as long as him, but hated PVP and primarily just stayed in the game for RP so he sold his nice pieces and what he wore was more-or-less just a costume. Their characters ended up having words and Anishor demanded he fight the other player said he'd like to use rolls. Anishor told him that he should of spent more time on PVP gear if he'd planned on starting fights. They started into a major arguement.

Anishor made a post stating his views that went on for days with both sides of the issue and Tziana had to lock the thread and remeind people there is no right or wrong way and to stop arguing. Guess what they did.

The problem was handled by reminding people to respect other RP styles and no rules were needed.

Eva · **03-17-2010, 09:20 PM**

Tsumi Wrote:Kes I'm not saying have no guidelines I'm saying don't over-do it

We're in agreement then, but the examples were insightful. I had hoped that my post would have erred on the side of 'less is more, but we do need some kind of structure here cuz everyone is not always going to play nice' but I think something may have been misconstrued.

I can cite similar scenarios within Sylph during attempts at cross-linkshell RP. One that jumps to mind right away is an event that Castiel had planned and apparently had already had a foregone conclusion which some/all of his linkshell was aware of. My own character was ready to leap into the fray (as it would have been OOC for him to do anything else at that point in time), but this was not very well received and prompted serious discussions about "scripted roleplay" and led to further tensions. It's in the past and I like to think Castiel and I get along pretty well now, but if something had been in place prior to the event - whether it have been a guideline of some sort (which was what I had originally proposed) or some increased communication in an OOC manner about what was expected to happen (which if I understand correctly is what you have proposed) - I think the end result would have been much better.

I continue to prefer to look at the RPC as a sort of liaison between guilds and not a governing body in any way. I don't like the idea of 'rules' or 'standards' for such an entity as the RPC, as the guilds themselves should be taking care of that mostly, however I do think 'guidelines' or at the very least 'suggestions' may be appropriate for events that encompass more than one guild. Even if these guidelines and suggestions are little more than 'communicate!'

90% of the drama I witnessed and experienced within Sylph was the end result of poor communication, or a lack of communication altogether.

Nanapariri · **03-17-2010, 09:20 PM**

Kes Wrote:90% of the drama I witnessed and experienced within Sylph was the end result of poor communication, or a lack of communication altogether.

This is the truth this is why the policy should be that there is a thread built for every cross-guild event where OOC discussion is done in advance. I never heard of an issue happening during a cross-guild event in Starsider because of this policy.

This didn't stop troublemakers from trying to start something but all I needed to do is point out the following:

1) We posted the rules in the thread in advance so you know this isn't appropriate.

2) If you are being disruptive and rufuse to follow the rules, according to the harrassment policy for the Community and the game standards of conduct, I have the right to report you to a GM and complain about your guild.

I never had one person not back down. They didn't want a scene.

Here's an example of how what I'm talking about above could be expressed as a policy or rules:

General Rules of Conduct

The RPC recognizes that groups with many different RP styles will be congregating together because this is the purpose. With differences of opinion sometimes conflicts will arise so the RPC members are expected to abide by the following rules of conduct.

1) Battle/Conflict Guidelines:

A) Always communicate OOC when in a situation where conflict is happening IC so that you both agree in advance how to handle the situation before the fight starts.

B) Respect the other players right to prefer different forms of battle. If you can't agree then don't battle.

C) God moding is never acceptable in conflict. According to the RPC the definition of God-modding is " performing any action against another person's character without asking their permission". If a person refuses to communicate OOC with you and insists on God moding immediately stop the battle and follow the dispute guidelines of the RPC.

D) Any IC Guild Fueds must be agreed to in advance by both guilds and regulated by those guilds as agreed to.

2) Player Conduct Guidelines:

A) All members of the RPC agree to respect all other members of the community and the varying styles of RP as valid.

B) Harrasment is never acceptable. Harassment as defined by the RPC as "belittling a player and their actions repeatedly in public or private. stalking, advances or statements of a sexual nature that are unwanted, griefing other players by purposely disrupting them in game OOC or ICly and creating smear campaigns in the community in game, the RPC forums, Guild forums or outside game forums". If you are a victim of harassment get evidence of the harassment and follow the dispute guidelines of the RPC.

C) Meta-gaming and God Moding are against the RPC standards ( see the definition above for God Moding) so always show respect for other players by asking them if it is alright for your character to discover any information about their character that is private and ask permission in a /tell before preforiming any actions agaisnt that character.

D) Do not post complaints about guilds or persons on the RPC forums. Follow the RPC dispute guidelines. If any such threads are posted the admins will lock them and issue warnings to the offenders and their guild.

3) RPC Sponsers Cross-Guild Events

1) In order for an event to be considered an RPC Sponsered event the following guidelines must be followed.

A) An Event Organizer must post a thread for OOC discussion while planning the event in the event planning forum.

B) The Organizer must have a host or hosts chosen to be sure that the conduct guidelines are being followed.

C) The rules for the event along with the final time and place must be posted ahead of time in the "RPC Event Annoucement Thread" with a link to the discussion thread so that those who wish to attend questions can be addressed in advance.

D) Everyone who attends the event recognizes they are aggreeing to follow the direction of the organizer, hosts and event rules. If they do not do so and a problem arises they are subject to the RPC Dispute Guidelines and may be disciplined.

4) RPC Dispute Guidelines

When an argument or dispute errupts between RPC members they are expected to follow the steps below before the issue is brought before the RPC Council.

A) If you are being harrased in game and it is in violation of the TOS agreement of FFXIV you have the right to report the person to a GM to stop the harassment. Inform the person that if they do not stop you will report them. If warning isn't sufficient report them.

B) Take a screen shot or have witnesses to back up your claims of harrasment or god moding and bring the offences to the attention to the leader of that persons guild. If they are a freelancer report the offence via PM to "whoever is designated for that responsibilty to Freelancers". Let the guild deal with discipline.

C) If the guild refuses to handle it take this evidence to the RPC and let them decide how to handle the situation. You will be informed of the RPC's decision and must abide by it.

D) Do not create OOC drama in the game or on the board over disagreements if you do then you may be diciplined.

E) RPC Disciplinary Actions

Unless a conflict is so bad that it is against the TOS of the game or the offenders refused to cease the behavior the dispute guidelines need not be used and dicipline will not be given by the RPC Council.

F) With the first offence a warning is given to the offending guild or individual.

G) With the second the offending guild or person may be given a period of suspension where they are no longer allowed to recruit on the board or particpate in RPC Sponsered events. Suspension will be removed once the guild or person has dealt with the issue.

H) With the third offence the Council will vote on whether to expel the guild or person permanately from the RPC.

That's a sample/idea of what could be done.

I think we have to consider what qualifies a guild into accepting membership in the RPC.

I like the idea of there having to be a Rep from that guild as a liason to the RPC leadership.

There should be individuals set up to run the RPC and be moderators that can be the last word on diciplinary matters.

I still think the Starsider Policy of forcing the people to work their disputes out themselves and not drag the community into it is superior than the RPC making a policy that requires there be people and a system set up to dicipline offenders but if you guys insist on it plese don't make it complicated.

**03-17-2010, 09:21 PM**

If everyone keeps dwelling on the drama that happened on Sylph, we're never really going to move forward from that point. It's really important that, while we realize what happened back then, that we move on. The goal here(at least IMO) is to make an open-ended, easily accessible, enjoyable roleplay for everyone. Not just the hardcore people who have been following FF roleplay since the PC launch. Referencing the past isn't going to do much to achieve the goal, because Sylph - and FFXI's - roleplay was pretty much the exact opposite of that.

It wasn't easy to get into, and once someone was in, they were up to your neck in OOC drama and shellfights. Roleplayers thought themselves ostracized from the general public, were hesitant to include others who were just trying to get involved, and then often wondered why they were called 'too serious'. The community wasn't very nice, and many of them were a lot more focused on themselves then what should of been the actual priority: the fun.

As of right now, everyone's got a clean slate. I'd prefer taking the 'we'll cross that bridge when we get to it' route, because not every situation can be glossed over or set to a certain charter. I think the RP community is mature enough to handle themselves without being babysat at every turn, and if something so horrible to the extent of actually meriting punishment happens - couldn't one just blacklist and move on, or just try and talk it out with the offending party?

Personally, I think a really good idea would be to try and get all the roleplayers onto a single server, and then advertise the server as a whole as a nice place to roleplay. Just be like, "Yeah man, if you wanna RP, go to the Cid Server". Just relax, roleplay where you can, include people even if you don't know them.

That brings up the issue of guilds, but it shouldn't even be an issue: guilds, to me, are just IC tools for your character to express their preference in company. They shouldn't be built on 'oh, i joined this one because it has better rules', or something. It should be an IC-choice, and IC guilds.

It worked really well for the WoW-server I'm on(which is currently the best RP server), and roleplay just flourishes on both factions. You can't walk two feet in Silvermoon without running into tons of IC people, people you can interact with or not, regardless if they're not in your guild, or if you even know them. It's an open-world free-for-all.

I mean, there could be a general conduct code.
But one shouldn't expect for everyone to be aware of it ingame. Just chill, roleplay, and have fun.
And that's where RPC would come in... it'd just be an enabler to let people meet, find out more about one another and their characters, and scout out factions for their character to join.

Again, I don't know if anything I say means anything, but I think it's something everyone should think about.

Verence · **03-17-2010, 09:22 PM**

Bear with me as I try to convert hastily jotted notes into actually fluent English, and forgive any terseness due to this fact! Also, TEXT AVALANCHE.

Structure
1-2 representatives from each sounds great. I'd suggest an RPC council with a private section of the boards only they can see to discuss problems, and potentially have a monthly meeting to keep everyone updated on what's going on to keep problems smoothed and the cross-guild RP flowing. Real authority would for the most part be deferred to the actual guild leaders, who may or may not be the actual guild representatives, but in the (should be) very rare event that the council has to make a mandate, it would carry the weight of the support of all guilds of the coalition, via their representatives. Too much stuff from On High will make the RPC seem restrictive, and people will begin to chafe and resent the perceived control. Leave as much as possible up to the leaders and members of the community and step in only when it's necessary... Not even every time it's requested, necessarily. Some will try to hide behind higher authority rather than resolve problems themselves.

Neutrality and Authority
Essentially, to my mind, the RPC should exert its authority as little as possible. It should be a last-resort thing to head off trouble, not a set of guidelines all must follow. When problems arise (and they will, believe me, the two most drama-prone groups in MMOs are end-gamers and RPers), the guild leader(s) of the person/people in question ought to be expected to take care of things. If they cannot, THEN they can appeal to the RPC council, or the RPC council can ask them to step up resolution then step in if the leaders can't/won't handle it. As for slander against the RPC as a whole... It's too broad a subject with too many nuances to make hard-and-fast rules. Let the RPC council discuss them as they come up and attempt to reach as peaceful and drama-free a solution as possible.

RPC Standards
PvP conflict is always INCREDIBLY sticky stuff. I generally try to avoid it even if it's a bit OOC to do so for my character because with no clear rules in place and the fact that you simply can't kill another character no matter what, it just turns into a mess of trying to get in a good fight without stepping on anyone's toes. It's fairly common for people to get so personally invested in their characters that they OOCly get hurt/offended when their char gets kicked around. I strongly support drafting up some RPC-standard conflict resolution guidelines. I don't necessarily think they ought to be enforced as a first solution, they ought to be something to fall back upon if the involved parties can't reach a resolution within their own guild's in-house policies so we don't have to go pussyfooting around and shy from character conflicts for fear of offense.

In the same vein, standards/etiquette/guidelines/etc for the RPC isn't a half bad idea, but try to keep them simple and general. Two complete delineated rulesets, both individual guilds and then the RPC will make heads spin. We're here to have fun, not be lawyers. I've seen some ideas expressed that I think work pretty well: Event organizer's event, event organizer's rules. If a conflict flares up and they just can't work it out, there are RPC guidelines to fall back upon, but this should be a last resort. Again, too much micromanagement will make people chafe.

The Public
RPers can seem pretty insular to the community at large simply due to the fact we have our own thing and our own plots going that are OURS, and nobody has a clue what it is we're standing around prattling about in the town square (though CPM tries to avoid RPing in busy areas out of courtesy to non-RPers). Sometimes passersby will try to interact with RPers, not realizing what's going on, and often RPers will ignore them because, let's face it, it's hard to RP with someone who isn't RPing. They use concepts and game terms that don't translate well. The non-RPer walks off thinking RPers are cliquish jerks who blow people off. CPM's general policy has been to just... Respond ICly to anything random people interject. People tend to either get confused and wander off, or join right in. Win/win. Greifers tend to give up in disgust as RPers refuse to take them seriously, though I have in the past successfully GM'd insistent and crude griefers and gotten them temp-banned.

Basically what we in CPM have found is that the best policy is open-door. If someone stumbles into an RP and starts talking, RP with them. If they get confused, explain what's going on in OOC /tells. Above all remain friendly and welcoming. It's served us well as some drama erupted over the griefer I got temp-banned on the Alla board and many people in the larger OOC community told him that CPM was a bit weird, yet nothing but cordial and if he got his ass banned then he must have deserved it.

Nanapariri · **03-17-2010, 09:23 PM**

Verence Wrote:Bear with me as I try to convert hastily jotted notes into actually fluent English, and forgive any terseness due to this fact! Also, TEXT AVALANCHE.

Structure
1-2 representatives from each sounds great. I'd suggest an RPC council with a private section of the boards only they can see to discuss problems, and potentially have a monthly meeting to keep everyone updated on what's going on to keep problems smoothed and the cross-guild RP flowing. Real authority would for the most part be deferred to the actual guild leaders, who may or may not be the actual guild representatives, but in the (should be) very rare event that the council has to make a mandate, it would carry the weight of the support of all guilds of the coalition, via their representatives. Too much stuff from On High will make the RPC seem restrictive, and people will begin to chafe and resent the perceived control. Leave as much as possible up to the leaders and members of the community and step in only when it's necessary... Not even every time it's requested, necessarily. Some will try to hide behind higher authority rather than resolve problems themselves.

Neutrality and Authority
Essentially, to my mind, the RPC should exert its authority as little as possible. It should be a last-resort thing to head off trouble, not a set of guidelines all must follow. When problems arise (and they will, believe me, the two most drama-prone groups in MMOs are end-gamers and RPers), the guild leader(s) of the person/people in question ought to be expected to take care of things. If they cannot, THEN they can appeal to the RPC council, or the RPC council can ask them to step up resolution then step in if the leaders can't/won't handle it. As for slander against the RPC as a whole... It's too broad a subject with too many nuances to make hard-and-fast rules. Let the RPC council discuss them as they come up and attempt to reach as peaceful and drama-free a solution as possible.

RPC Standards
PvP conflict is always INCREDIBLY sticky stuff. I generally try to avoid it even if it's a bit OOC to do so for my character because with no clear rules in place and the fact that you simply can't kill another character no matter what, it just turns into a mess of trying to get in a good fight without stepping on anyone's toes. It's fairly common for people to get so personally invested in their characters that they OOCly get hurt/offended when their char gets kicked around. I strongly support drafting up some RPC-standard conflict resolution guidelines. I don't necessarily think they ought to be enforced as a first solution, they ought to be something to fall back upon if the involved parties can't reach a resolution within their own guild's in-house policies so we don't have to go pussyfooting around and shy from character conflicts for fear of offense.

In the same vein, standards/etiquette/guidelines/etc for the RPC isn't a half bad idea, but try to keep them simple and general. Two complete delineated rulesets, both individual guilds and then the RPC will make heads spin. We're here to have fun, not be lawyers. I've seen some ideas expressed that I think work pretty well: Event organizer's event, event organizer's rules. If a conflict flares up and they just can't work it out, there are RPC guidelines to fall back upon, but this should be a last resort. Again, too much micromanagement will make people chafe.

The Public
RPers can seem pretty insular to the community at large simply due to the fact we have our own thing and our own plots going that are OURS, and nobody has a clue what it is we're standing around prattling about in the town square (though CPM tries to avoid RPing in busy areas out of courtesy to non-RPers). Sometimes passersby will try to interact with RPers, not realizing what's going on, and often RPers will ignore them because, let's face it, it's hard to RP with someone who isn't RPing. They use concepts and game terms that don't translate well. The non-RPer walks off thinking RPers are cliquish jerks who blow people off. CPM's general policy has been to just... Respond ICly to anything random people interject. People tend to either get confused and wander off, or join right in. Win/win. Greifers tend to give up in disgust as RPers refuse to take them seriously, though I have in the past successfully GM'd insistent and crude griefers and gotten them temp-banned.

Basically what we in CPM have found is that the best policy is open-door. If someone stumbles into an RP and starts talking, RP with them. If they get confused, explain what's going on in OOC /tells. Above all remain friendly and welcoming. It's served us well as some drama erupted over the griefer I got temp-banned on the Alla board and many people in the larger OOC community told him that CPM was a bit weird, yet nothing but cordial and if he got his ass banned then he must have deserved it.

QFW

It pretty much summarizes the way I feel.

Though I personally don't think a "Rule Set" of how and when a person has to handle battle I could see it posted as a suggested way to handle the situation if they can't decide how to handle it themselves. If you try to make it a rule it would be next to impossible to enforce because it happens so often you'll be dealing with it during time you could spend on thing more beneficial for the group. If you insist on making it a standard that has to "kick in" without question it will not go over very well.

Basically if you say "in order to prevent problems when you can't decide how to handle an IC conflict we offer the following endorsed RPC suggestion." This way you aren't obligated to step in and discipline anyone.

I think a simple mission statement as to how we should view the "public" and be friendly and open should suffice on that.

Eva · **03-17-2010, 09:25 PM**

Traydon Wrote:The goal here(at least IMO) is to make an open-ended, easily accessible, enjoyable roleplay for everyone. Not just the hardcore people who have been following FF roleplay since the PC launch. Referencing the past isn't going to do much to achieve the goal, because Sylph - and FFXI's - roleplay was pretty much the exact opposite of that.

I will agree that that is the goal. I disagree however that Sylph's RP at least (I truly cannot speak for the other servers, however they may feel similarly) was anything less than similar to that goal. I realize you were not a part of it for most of its lifecycle, but Crystalline thrived for six years, having only one or two real slow spots. The last three years or so was mostly free from drama (largely because at that point our administration was a pretty well-oiled machine and we took care of the issues promptly and accordingly). I worked diligently with various other officers throughout its lifespan to the end that most of its members enjoyed themselves and had a good time. And while I've always considered myself a rather lousy leader, I'm still proud of the fact that it was as good as it was, and withstood all that it did.

Traydon, while I am giving you the benefit of a clean slate, I do not think it prudent to disregard the past issues that have occurred. It is already clear to me that the two of us will probably want different things out of a community, which is why I disagree about the remark about guilds being regarded as IC tools rather than separate substructures. For some guilds this may be a good idea, but there are going to be RPers that wish to have something a little more structured than the laissez-faire sort of guild you seem to be seeking. Which is fine. We are two different breeds of RPer, and we can still meet at the table here in the RPC and have conversations and dialogues such as this. I believe that's the whole point of this coalition.

I don't wish to prattle on about differences in what will eventually be individual guild policies, however. The discussion should remain focused on what the role of the RPC should be, and I suspect the above paragraph may prove a worthy example in and of itself - a place where members of different guilds with different views may still come together and discuss thoughts, share stories, and exchange ideas.

**03-17-2010, 09:25 PM**

Well, yes, no one is saying that Crystalline wasn't around, or working to be a good shell.

I was merely saying that roleplay on Sylph, and in FFXI was not any of those things: open-ended, easily accessible, and enjoyable for everyone. Roleplays were scripted, one had to jump through endless hoops to be considered to join, many important character developments usually happened in forums, and for every person having a good time with stories - there were several being left out. While things may have been fun and games for the lucky Sylph-folks who were in Crystalline, it was always an uphill battle for those who weren't.

In all honesty, I think it's best for everyone to just forget what happened in the past. Many unfair and biased things were said on both sides, but assuming that certain people don't make the same mistakes they have in the past, it shouldn't be anything to worry about now. Keeping it in mind will only form unrest against certain individuals, and it'll go downhill from there. I mean, I didn't even know until a few hours ago that Cestial = Islude, and I'm not even sure who you are either. I've already left it all behind, and quite literally years later, people are still discussing those things?

I'm not trying to start anything, or be a jerk, or anything. Just my opinion & point of view.

So we're at an agreement! RPC is a meeting place for all the roleplayers! Hooray! <:

Eva · **03-17-2010, 09:26 PM**

I was/am Dyterium in FF11.
FFV image to lighten the mood a bit
[Image: text2.jpg]

I just want to touch on a couple more points, then I'm done with this and on to happier discussions.

Traydon Wrote:I've already left it all behind, and quite literally years later, people are still discussing those things?

As far as I'm concerned, past transgressions were forgiven a very long time ago. But not forgotten. If we forget our history, we are often doomed to repeat it. Which is the very reason I think this is being discussed now.

I can't speak for everyone, but I will speak for myself. I fell out of the habit of carrying grudges sometime over the past couple of years, and the last thing I want to see this turn into is a flame war, but your post seems to insinuate that Crystalline was an exclusive group that only let in select people, and implied that you were not given multiple chances to RP with us. Perhaps I misread your meaning. I just wanted to clarify that very few people were turned away during our lifespan, and for very good reasons when they were. There were very clear reasons for why things were the way they were, though. I am sure things have changed a lot over the past five years and I have already said that you have carte blanche in my book. FFXIV is a new world for us all, with new adventures to be held, new obstacles to be crossed, and new friendships to be made.

That all being said I've reread Verence's post a few times over and feel that it is a very great place to start! I agree with every point on there.

Nanapariri · **03-17-2010, 09:27 PM**

Kes Wrote:Traydon, while I am giving you the benefit of a clean slate, I do not think it prudent to disregard the past issues that have occurred. It is already clear to me that the two of us will probably want different things out of a community, which is why I disagree about the remark about guilds being regarded as IC tools rather than separate substructures. For some guilds this may be a good idea, but there are going to be RPers that wish to have something a little more structured than the laissez-faire sort of guild you seem to be seeking. Which is fine. We are two different breeds of RPer, and we can still meet at the table here in the RPC and have conversations and dialogues such as this. I believe that's the whole point of this coalition.

I don't wish to prattle on about differences in what will eventually be individual guild policies, however. The discussion should remain focused on what the role of the RPC should be, and I suspect the above paragraph may prove a worthy example in and of itself - a place where members of different guilds with different views may still come together and discuss thoughts, share stories, and exchange ideas.

I think really what he means, and at least what I mean is, we don't want so many rules that people won't cross-guild RP for fear of breaking rules. I might be taking this wrong, but I sort of had that feeling you feel spontaenous unplanned RP without events shouldn't happen If there are guilds/LS.

On Starsider I belonged to a guild with rules and structure but I also Rped with people from other guilds and free lancer just because they were at an RP hub. A RP hub was a place that a lot of Rpers hung out at when they were bored. Some of the most fun I had in SWG RP was from unplanned spontaenous RPs with people I just met. If I'd have been worried that by interacting with that person I might break some rule and be kicked out I would' ve missed out on meeting people that later became friends.

I'd hoped that cross guild RP in this RPC and server would encourage random and spontaneous interaction as well as event based. I'm getting the feeling the reason you all want rules for battle and all cross-guild actions is because you are not in favor of being spontaenous feeling it will only create drama. Am I right? I hope I'm not since I really hoped people could have fun with random encounters as well as events.

Eva · **03-17-2010, 09:28 PM**

Last post for me before bed. Will follow up tomorrow from work if there are more concerns.

I think you have me all wrong. When I say I'm in favor of rules and structure, I do not mean exclusivity within one guild and no spontaneity. I mean I don't necessarily want to be RPing with the silly stuff like the blue skin and glowing eyes and grown wings. I can appreciate some of the more subtle things. I have preferred my RP in keeping with the lore of the game. Others in the past have been bent on adding elements like this to RP in the name of creativity, but a lot of it comes across as being over the top, overkill, or just downright cliche sometimes. Frankly, it's the godmode I worry most about, and that blurry line between what should be acceptable and what should not be. This line will lie in different places in different guilds, as well, no doubt.

I have little opinion on the methods for RPing combat. This was seldom a concern I ran into in FFXI (I think I remember one battle between two individuals where there was no communication, neither wanted to lose, and it turned godmodish fast). However I can see how it could be an issue under the right circumstances. I've participated in RP duels though where I had worked out a sort of interplay with the rival, often planning in advance to be defeated. Once or twice a third (and fourth) party would suddenly and spontaneously intervene and this was more than cool with me, even without prior communication, so long as it was done gracefully.

In fact, I had posted earlier that I took issue once during a cross-linkshell event where I was essentially prohibited from having my character do what he would naturally have done in such a situation given his alignment and ideals. I've never really been a fan of scripted RP, but I do like to keep an open line of communication with the people with whom I'm interacting, and always welcome to outside intervention so long as it is reasonably executed.

I hope this clears things up a bit. I might edit my post in the 'About Me' area to reflect these opinions, or might it be a good idea to create a thread to outline what we want to see and what we do not want to see? I can see how this might closely border recruitment, but maybe when it is closer to the time to begin segmenting off such a thread would be helpful for those intending to be leaders. Just a thought! Smile

Verence · **03-17-2010, 09:28 PM**

I don't think anyone here is trying to stifle spontaneity. I'm sure anyone who's been RPing for a while has stories about fantastic RP sessions cropping up out of nowhere with no planning beforehand. Some of my most memorable RPs started with "I'm bored. RP in ____! Who's in?" Neither am I advocating a set-in-stone system of mechanics for handling combat or other character interactions. That stuff works great for tabletop gaming but it quickly becomes cumbersome and distracting in an MMO. What I'm saying is, not everyone who roleplays is mature. I'm not indicting anyone here, in fact thus far I've been pleasantly surprised by how well-spoken everyone has been. Just think, out of all the people you've RP'd with, has every one been cordial, polite, considerate, and willing to compromise? If you answered "yes", please tell me what server you're on so I can switch there ASAP.

Character conflicts will inevitably arise. This is good, healthy, and makes for great RP as long so the players don't get in the way. Everyone getting along all the time can get boring; we aren't RPing Utopia. This isn't just about combat either, this is games of Chess, pickpocketing attempts, playfully snatching hats off each other's heads, and the like. Most of the time, people are going to be cool with whatever and there won't even be any question on how to resolve things. But, sometimes there will be. What happens when the punches start flying and both players think their character should win? Usually drama. I think it'd be a pretty good idea not to have "combat rules" but "conflict resolution guidelines". Nothing hard and fast or overly structured, just some clear methods by which people can work out differences in opinion and agree to be bound by the solution thus obtained. Remember that ultimately, we're co-authoring a story. Not playing to win.

The chief reason this is a concern to me is because in the past, I've forced my characters to avoid conflicts they would have otherwise leapt straight into for the purely OOC reason that I knew it would be a pain to settle with those involved. In essence, I was not allowed to truly play my character due to poor conflict resolution guidelines. There's not an awful lot that can be done about it, but I'd like to see what little can be done, be done.

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