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Ashe · **12-02-2015, 09:00 PM**

Kinda just looking for a straight answer, but...
With the character creation, it's possible to have dark skinned/blueish Wildwood and light skinned Duskwights and we've seen some dark skinned Wildwood in the Holy See.

The biggest difference I've noticed in terms of physical differences is the eye shape.

So! The question now becomes: Could a Wildwood try to pass themselves (brief disguises for spying, not like a lifestyle choice, etc) as a Duskwight...and the other way around.

This could be by covering their eyes, etc.

Alderique · **12-02-2015, 09:09 PM**

I would think this could potentially done? It's tricky!
I've been doing some reading about Wildwood and Duskwight differences. Apparently in 1.0 the skin tones were much more distinct. Currently in 2.0 Duskwight. have access to more diverse skin tones, where as in 1.0 they were pretty railroaded into the more obvious Duskwight skin tones.

I imagine that other Elezen would be able to tell your background, but it would be easier to hide with people who are not as used to it? Elezen tend to be a bit proud too, so it's probably uncommon for a character to try to disguise their background.

I don't see why it couldn't be done, though! The only other physical difference I can think of is that Duskwight have keener hearing due to being used to living underground. I'm not sure if their eyesight is enhanced or not, though.

Verad · **12-02-2015, 10:12 PM**

I've seen a number of Duskwight players with characters that look similar enough to a Wildwood to play as a "passing" Duskwight. There's some interesting roleplay opportunities in that, especially if it's done in Gridania and, to a lesser extent, Ishgard, and you can find some players who are committed to playing Gridanian xenophobia.

As for the reverse, I think that's a little more difficult in terms of making it work in the character creator, but a Wildwood that "passes" could certainly see uses as a spy in and around Gridania, especially if their work involved spying on the various Duskwight cave clans we're told about in the character creator.

Solenne · **12-03-2015, 04:57 AM**

There is definitely a range of skin tones that overlap between the two. My Duskwight (who doesn't have the greatest eyesight anyway) got confused about another Elezen's clan once ICly, and I play an NPC who is half Duskwight but can pass as a Wildwood. I think it's more realistic if the lines between the clans get a bit blurry at times, at least in terms of their physical appearance.

Ludivine Goultard · **12-03-2015, 07:18 AM**

Physically, I think it's 100% possible.

Keep in mind there'll be a lot of things beyond that, such as accents and clan/familial knowledge which might make sneaking around hard.

This is RP, anyway, so I'm sure if you explain in your writing how well disguised your character is, or otherwise, then people will know whether or not to raise the issue! Just have fun with it.

Valence · **12-03-2015, 08:37 AM**

If people IRL can pass for females while being male, or the opposite, then I don't see why not honestly... That sounds a lot easier to conceal to me.

Ashe · **12-03-2015, 02:59 PM**

Yeah, my idea was thinking about how to sneak my character into Gridania to meet with one person and then leave.
Nothing long term.
Thanks for the feedback/answers

plumsamurai · **12-04-2015, 12:55 PM**

Not at all physical I've noticed this in the name generator and in the lore blurb about names

Quote:Both the Wildwood and Duskwight Elezen are proud clans from a proud race. The forenames and surnames used by them have changed little since the time when they first crossed into Eorzea from the north. However, over the ages, due to bad blood between the two tribes, the surnames once commonly used by both, have been claimed by one side or the other. Now, you will find that while the structures and spellings of the names are extremely similar, and they follow the same phonetic rules, a Duskwight and a Wildwood Elezen will never have the same last name.

Though I honestly doubt most elezen are really aware of which surname belongs to which clan unless they're on some hell-bent path to destroy the other clan or something.

Vyce · **12-04-2015, 01:03 PM**

(12-03-2015, 08:37 AM)Valence Wrote: If people IRL can pass for females while being male, or the opposite, then I don't see why not honestly... That sounds a lot easier to conceal to me.

This isn't the same. This is more like a black man trying to pass for an Asian man and vice versa.

Ashe · **12-04-2015, 01:15 PM**

(12-04-2015, 01:03 PM)Vyce Wrote:
(12-03-2015, 08:37 AM)Valence Wrote: If people IRL can pass for females while being male, or the opposite, then I don't see why not honestly... That sounds a lot easier to conceal to me.

This isn't the same. This is more like a black man trying to pass for an Asian man and vice versa.

I wouldn't say that...
The real physical difference for them is their eye shape and Duskwight faces are slightly thinner.
The skin tones for both races are varied but Duskwight tend to be darker and Wildwood tend to be lighter BUT we've seen Wildwood who are as dark as Duskwight. Â It wouldn't be impossible for it to be the other way around.

For that comparison to be true, they'd have to have evolved in completely different environments but both clans grew up in what is relatively the same environment in the Shroud.

Vyce · **12-04-2015, 01:45 PM**

(12-04-2015, 01:15 PM)Ashe Wrote:
(12-04-2015, 01:03 PM)Vyce Wrote:
(12-03-2015, 08:37 AM)Valence Wrote: If people IRL can pass for females while being male, or the opposite, then I don't see why not honestly... That sounds a lot easier to conceal to me.

This isn't the same. This is more like a black man trying to pass for an Asian man and vice versa.
I wouldn't say that...
The real physical difference for them is their eye shape and Duskwight faces are slightly thinner.
The skin tones for both races are varied but Duskwight tend to be darker and Wildwood tend to be lighter BUT we've seen Wildwood who are as dark as Duskwight. Â It wouldn't be impossible for it to be the other way around.

For that comparison to be true, they'd have to have evolved in completely different environments but both clans grew up in what is relatively the same environment in the Shroud.

Eye shape. Skin tone.

Duskwight evolved traits having to do with their environment.

So far, it seems like the difference between two IRL human races.

Actually, if you look at it more closely, the difference between Seeker/Keeper, Wildwood/Duskwight, Midlander/Highlander, Lohengarde/Sea Wolf, Raen/Xaela, and Plainsfolk/Dunesfolk is species.

Lalafell are all the same up to or Genus.Â So Plainsfolk and Dunesfolk separate at Species of Lalafell.

Quote:A species is often defined as the largest group of organisms where two hybrids are capable of reproducing fertile offspring, typically using sexual reproduction.

Species hypothesized to have the same ancestors are placed in one genus, based on similarities. The similarity of species is judged based on comparison of physical attributes, and where available, their DNA sequences.

If you consider Dunesfolk, the defining characteristic of their species is the presence of a layer over the eyes that protects their ocular organs from intense light and gives them that large, glassy look. Plainsfolk cannot simply decide to become Dunesfolk, and there will be dominant and recessive genes in interspecies Lalafell.

Step back, and Lalafell and Miqote branch away from one another at Family.

Ashe · **12-04-2015, 03:37 PM**

(12-04-2015, 01:45 PM)Vyce Wrote:
(12-04-2015, 01:15 PM)Ashe Wrote:
(12-04-2015, 01:03 PM)Vyce Wrote:
(12-03-2015, 08:37 AM)Valence Wrote: If people IRL can pass for females while being male, or the opposite, then I don't see why not honestly... That sounds a lot easier to conceal to me.

This isn't the same. This is more like a black man trying to pass for an Asian man and vice versa.
I wouldn't say that...
The real physical difference for them is their eye shape and Duskwight faces are slightly thinner.
The skin tones for both races are varied but Duskwight tend to be darker and Wildwood tend to be lighter BUT we've seen Wildwood who are as dark as Duskwight. Â It wouldn't be impossible for it to be the other way around.

For that comparison to be true, they'd have to have evolved in completely different environments but both clans grew up in what is relatively the same environment in the Shroud.

Eye shape. Skin tone.

Duskwight evolved traits having to do with their environment.

So far, it seems like the difference between two IRL human races.

Actually, if you look at it more closely, the difference between Seeker/Keeper, Wildwood/Duskwight, Midlander/Highlander, Lohengarde/Sea Wolf, Raen/Xaela, and Plainsfolk/Dunesfolk is species.

Lalafell are all the same up to or Genus.Â So Plainsfolk and Dunesfolk separate at Species of Lalafell.

Quote:A species is often defined as the largest group of organisms where two hybrids are capable of reproducing fertile offspring, typically using sexual reproduction.

Species hypothesized to have the same ancestors are placed in one genus, based on similarities. The similarity of species is judged based on comparison of physical attributes, and where available, their DNA sequences.

If you consider Dunesfolk, the defining characteristic of their species is the presence of a layer over the eyes that protects their ocular organs from intense light and gives them that large, glassy look. Plainsfolk cannot simply decide to become Dunesfolk, and there will be dominant and recessive genes in interspecies Lalafell.

Step back, and Lalafell and Miqote branch away from one another at Family.

Yes and no.
I don't think Darwin evolution really applies to this game...at all. If you look at the species of animals, monsters, and insects around...
If it did, the bees in Ul'dah would look different than the ones in Limsa...and they don't.

My understanding was that they were the same race but their traits were reflected differently due to the environment they grew up in.
Like how all dogs have the same general genome but the their genes are reflected differently.

By your theory, if a wildwood and duskwight had a child, the recessive lighter skin trait from the duskwight could be present in a wildwood...
Or a mutation could have occurred.

IRL human races are starting to become more blurred as well as time goes by and people stop being stupid about interracial relationships and just accept everyone as humans.
Some children don't look like their parents. My mom is southern italian and has medium beige skin tone while mine is super fair. My little sister has gold-brown hair while mine is black.
I have my dad's curly jewish hair while my little sister has my mom's wavy, straight hair.

When you have a more varied gene pool, these sorts of things occur.
Then again, I am willing to suspend disbelief for one short scenario involving one other person (and I guess every other Duskwight on the server who has lighter skin?) and not apply Earth science to a game where we're not even sure where half the races came from.

Ah, we do know that that the Elezen were there first. And that they all started in the Shroud TOGETHER as nomads. Regardless of Duskwight and Wildwood, they were all once the same.

Ah...and by your explanation...Someone from say...South Africa and another from South Korea are different species.

P.S. I work in publishing...I'm not a science person but I did pay attention once in awhile >>

Valence · **12-04-2015, 04:20 PM**

Skin tone is easy to conceal... But eye shape, yes, I can see where you are going... I was not totally sure of the differences they have between them.

I think that saying that Darwinian theories don't apply here might be a slippery slope in any case, since we all know they were probably not going to recreate a variation of the same mob 3D models everytime for every region... Imagine the weight in game files as well as the futility of the +++ hours of work required...

Similarly, I am not sure that Eorzea has reached the threshold where man races have started to blur and intermingle like in our modern contemporary society. Travel remains overall very costly and limited to a few, etc. On the other hand, there are so many anachronistic things with that same contemporary society (sunglasses, costa del sol, the Gold Saucer, real estate agents, and a lot of very modern societal and consumerist concepts overall and all that jazz) that well... It's hard to argue either way.

Which brought me a question of curiosity, are different races/species offspring infertile? Like, in the MSQ, is the Mongrel infertile?

Also, is it an abuse of language when they speak of all the races as races, and not species? When they speak about "Man" like the encompassing species?

Vyce · **12-04-2015, 04:31 PM**

(12-04-2015, 03:37 PM)Ashe Wrote:
(12-04-2015, 01:45 PM)Vyce Wrote:
(12-04-2015, 01:15 PM)Ashe Wrote:
(12-04-2015, 01:03 PM)Vyce Wrote:
(12-03-2015, 08:37 AM)Valence Wrote: If people IRL can pass for females while being male, or the opposite, then I don't see why not honestly... That sounds a lot easier to conceal to me.

This isn't the same. This is more like a black man trying to pass for an Asian man and vice versa.
I wouldn't say that...
The real physical difference for them is their eye shape and Duskwight faces are slightly thinner.
The skin tones for both races are varied but Duskwight tend to be darker and Wildwood tend to be lighter BUT we've seen Wildwood who are as dark as Duskwight. Â It wouldn't be impossible for it to be the other way around.

For that comparison to be true, they'd have to have evolved in completely different environments but both clans grew up in what is relatively the same environment in the Shroud.

Eye shape. Skin tone.

Duskwight evolved traits having to do with their environment.

So far, it seems like the difference between two IRL human races.

Actually, if you look at it more closely, the difference between Seeker/Keeper, Wildwood/Duskwight, Midlander/Highlander, Lohengarde/Sea Wolf, Raen/Xaela, and Plainsfolk/Dunesfolk is species.

Lalafell are all the same up to or Genus.Â So Plainsfolk and Dunesfolk separate at Species of Lalafell.

Quote:A species is often defined as the largest group of organisms where two hybrids are capable of reproducing fertile offspring, typically using sexual reproduction.

Species hypothesized to have the same ancestors are placed in one genus, based on similarities. The similarity of species is judged based on comparison of physical attributes, and where available, their DNA sequences.

If you consider Dunesfolk, the defining characteristic of their species is the presence of a layer over the eyes that protects their ocular organs from intense light and gives them that large, glassy look. Plainsfolk cannot simply decide to become Dunesfolk, and there will be dominant and recessive genes in interspecies Lalafell.

Step back, and Lalafell and Miqote branch away from one another at Family.
Yes and no.
I don't think Darwin evolution really applies to this game...at all. If you look at the species of animals, monsters, and insects around...
If it did, the bees in Ul'dah would look different than the ones in Limsa...and they don't.

My understanding was that they were the same race but their traits were reflected differently due to the environment they grew up in.
Like how all dogs have the same general genome but the their genes are reflected differently.

By your theory, if a wildwood and duskwight had a child, the recessive lighter skin trait from the duskwight could be present in a wildwood...
Or a mutation could have occurred.

IRL human races are starting to become more blurred as well as time goes by and people stop being stupid about interracial relationships and just accept everyone as humans.
Some children don't look like their parents. My mom is southern italian and has medium beige skin tone while mine is super fair. My little sister has gold-brown hair while mine is black.
I have my dad's curly jewish hair while my little sister has my mom's wavy, straight hair.

When you have a more varied gene pool, these sorts of things occur.
Then again, I am willing to suspend disbelief for one short scenario involving one other person (and I guess every other Duskwight on the server who has lighter skin?) and not apply Earth science to a game where we're not even sure where half the races came from.

Ah, we do know that that the Elezen were there first. And that they all started in the Shroud TOGETHER as nomads. Regardless of Duskwight and Wildwood, they were all once the same.

Ah...and by your explanation...Someone from say...South Africa and another from South Korea are different species.

P.S. I work in publishing...I'm not a science person but I did pay attention once in awhile >>

Actually, if a Wildwood and Duskwight had a child, it could very well have mixed traits from both. Interestingly though, all of the people of Hydaelyn are technically able to reproduce together. They just don't, because mutual attraction isn't universal in the way that human races tend to be physically attracted to those within their race. That doesn't mean it is impossible- after all, Eorzean races are said to be descended from a single entity.

As far as humans IRL, we are not classified as separate species for mostly ethical reasons BUT technically if an alien race came here, they would likely be able to divide all of us into thousands of different species of modern human.

FUN FACT:

There are currently two living species of Human today.

The vast expanse of humankind is called Homo Sapiens Sapiens. This species is the product of reproduction between the Neanderthals and the early Homo Sapiens.

However, in Africa there exist small tribes of humans that do not have Neanderthal DNA, which means they are Homo Sapiens and NOT Homo Sapiens Sapiens. What's even more interesting is that these tribes do not seem to have evolved culturally or technologically for hundreds of years. This is theorized to be due to the fact that they did not ever come in contact with the Neanderthals who were known for invention and complex social organization.

Ashe · **12-04-2015, 04:32 PM**

(12-04-2015, 04:20 PM)Valence Wrote: Skin tone is easy to conceal... But eye shape, yes, I can see where you are going... I was not totally sure of the differences they have between them.

I think that saying that Darwinian theories don't apply here might be a slippery slope in any case, since we all know they were probably not going to recreate a variation of the same mob 3D models everytime for every region... Imagine the weight in game files as well as the futility of the +++ hours of work required...

Similarly, I am not sure that Eorzea has reached the threshold where man races have started to blur and intermingle like in our modern contemporary society. Travel remains overall very costly and limited to a few, etc. On the other hand, there are so many anachronistic things with that same contemporary society (sunglasses, costa del sol, the Gold Saucer, real estate agents, and a lot of very modern societal and consumerist concepts overall and all that jazz) that well... It's hard to argue either way.

Which brought me a question of curiosity, are different races/species offspring infertile? Like, in the MSQ, is the Mongrel infertile?

Also, is it an abuse of language when they speak of all the races as races, and not species? When they speak about "Man" like the encompassing species?

Elezen grew up in the same environment...The Shroud...so it's not like they had much variation to begin with.
Hyur--both Midlander and Highlander started in Ala Mihgo and Midlanders can also be Doman but they don't look different than the ones in Eorzea.
Lalafell are both in Ul'dah...their lifestyles are different (don't know much about them...never had to).
Au Ra are both from Othard and their lifestyle and faith is mostly all that is different.

Miqo'te and Roe may be the only two that had super varying environments.
I don't think that the science really applies here...

As for infertility...that's a good question. We may never know haha.

In a world where there is more than one basic appearance for intelligent beings (The PC races and beastmen...DRAGONS...even clones because there are intelligent NPCs who WERE clones)...Darwin Evolution is a really difficult comparison because there are a large number of "species" per say that would have "human intelligence" and don't look humanoid.

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Physical differences between Duskwight and Wildwood

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes