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Vyce · **12-04-2015, 05:09 PM**

(12-04-2015, 04:32 PM)Ashe Wrote:
(12-04-2015, 04:20 PM)Valence Wrote: Skin tone is easy to conceal... But eye shape, yes, I can see where you are going... I was not totally sure of the differences they have between them.

I think that saying that Darwinian theories don't apply here might be a slippery slope in any case, since we all know they were probably not going to recreate a variation of the same mob 3D models everytime for every region... Imagine the weight in game files as well as the futility of the +++ hours of work required...

Similarly, I am not sure that Eorzea has reached the threshold where man races have started to blur and intermingle like in our modern contemporary society. Travel remains overall very costly and limited to a few, etc. On the other hand, there are so many anachronistic things with that same contemporary society (sunglasses, costa del sol, the Gold Saucer, real estate agents, and a lot of very modern societal and consumerist concepts overall and all that jazz) that well... It's hard to argue either way.

Which brought me a question of curiosity, are different races/species offspring infertile? Like, in the MSQ, is the Mongrel infertile?

Also, is it an abuse of language when they speak of all the races as races, and not species? When they speak about "Man" like the encompassing species?

Elezen grew up in the same environment...The Shroud...so it's not like they had much variation to begin with.
Hyur--both Midlander and Highlander started in Ala Mihgo and Midlanders can also be Doman but they don't look different than the ones in Eorzea.
Lalafell are both in Ul'dah...their lifestyles are different (don't know much about them...never had to).
Au Ra are both from Othard and their lifestyle and faith is mostly all that is different.

Miqo'te and Roe may be the only two that had super varying environments.
I don't think that the science really applies here...

As for infertility...that's a good question. We may never know haha.

In a world where there is more than one basic appearance for intelligent beings (The PC races and beastmen...DRAGONS...even clones because there are intelligent NPCs who WERE clones)...Darwin Evolution is a really difficult comparison because there are a large number of "species" per say that would have "human intelligence" and don't look humanoid.

You are not thinking back far enough. A people doesn't evolve in a couple hundred years.

Elezen may have begun as a singular species in the Wildwood, but eventually a group broke off and delved underground. That group changed over generations upon generations and developed the skin, the hearing and the (vision?) that it has now are due to differences in environment. There are different environments within an ecosystem.

Ashe · **12-04-2015, 05:14 PM**

I'm thinking in terms of the fact that lizards in our world don't talk and have a political ruling system...but in Eorzea there are non-humanoid dragons whose traits can be awakened through their blood to the Ishgardian Elezens who willingly consume it because their ancestors ate the eye of a dragon.
.....
That isn't science.

Valence · **12-04-2015, 05:39 PM**

If you say that aliens would divide us between legions of human species, then how does that fit to the definition you gave of species? All humans offspring don't lose their fertility when reproducing with another phenotype of humans...

Ashe · **12-04-2015, 06:04 PM**

While I'm all for science, I really don't think it can easily be applied here.
One tiny tribe in Africa versus the other 6 billion people on earth don't make your example really compelling either...

Look at Dogs.Â
Dogs have the same set of genes yet some can be 100lbs and some can be 5lbs.
Their genes are all the same.Â
(This I am 100% sure of so don't argue with me on this one...Dog Breeds are not the same as species. The breeds are human controlled through selective breeding to bring out the most "desirable" traits for certain breeds).

I think the split in the races is more like Dog breeds than separate species.

Yssen · **12-04-2015, 07:43 PM**

In 1.0 there were pretty stark physical differences between the two flavors of Elezen. Duskwights had larger/longer ears and very different skin tones (some of them even slightly glowy in direct light, which was weird). Wildwoods were confined to shorter ears and more normal skin tones. 2.0 took this away with the slider thing. A present there are only two major physical differences between the two tribes. Duskwights have very accute and sensitive hearing, and are have been known to be a little sensitive to bright light. WW on the other hand developed very keen eyesight. Think"Legolas, what do your elf eyes see?" The only other physical difference is an aesthetic one. WW can have earclasps, DW can have the face tatoos. No, we have no idea of the cultural significance of these things yet.

Most RPers I have seen have rolled this over. I have seen more than one WW accused of having DW blood over their longer ears, this sometimes results in super neat RP responses (akin to telling a Hyur they have Sea Wolf blood). The same has also been true and said of DW with shorter ears.Â

With that said, they all used to be one group of Elezen. Elezen as a whole were the first race to come to Eorzea, and came from the north. This happened so long ago that Elezen were often mistaken for having originated on Eorzea. There was no split between the two tribes (culturaly or physically) until the fall of Gelmorra. In fact, all Duskwights trace back to Gelmorra and were scattered when the Elementals and the WW sacked it. DWs did not originate anywhere else, but they did spread to other places (House Dzemael for example, is a Great Houste of Ishgard and a DW lineage).

Long story short, as far as passing. If WW and DWs can be accused of having their opposites blood in their veins, one can probably totally pass. As far as species, this is a more mystical or strange thing. All elezen are elezen. DW elezen are a whacky quirk originating from one specific place and one specific time. Also, they were not living underground near long enough to completely adapt to it. They exist because long ago, Elementals were dicks (and still are). Or, in fantasy trope translation, a wizard did it. Yar.

Ashe · **12-04-2015, 08:17 PM**

^ Which is interesting 'cause most of the Ishgardian Elezen all have longer ears.

Diskwrite · **12-05-2015, 10:10 AM**

RE: the species discussion-

Creatures that sexually reproduce are generally considered to be of the same species if they can interbreed- and produce fertile offspring. Which is why all dogs are the same species "dog," but all the varieties of dog are referred to as "breeds."

Valence · **12-05-2015, 11:02 AM**

You are sure that say, a chihuahua can reproduce and produce fertile offspring with a mastiff or something similar?

Yssen · **12-05-2015, 11:39 AM**

(12-04-2015, 08:17 PM)Ashe Wrote: ^ Which is interesting 'cause most of the Ishgardian Elezen all have longer ears.

Some of them do, and the Ishgardians we saw in 1.0 did not. Even notable NPCs like Hauchefant and some others do not have super long ears. Their ears are more like normal WW ears from 1.0. It gets a bit tricky because there is only really on size for the elezen ears when they are wearing some sort of head gear, which most of the ishgardians NPC are doing.Â

Still, this difference remains half artifact of old things and half actually there. Sort of a "do with it what you will" sort of thing. The devs and game makers pay attention to it when they choose too, and so it is with we players. Yar. Still, If you want a sorta awesome example that exist in the concept art, look at the pic to the right on this site's bordery thing. The DW female's ears are longer than the WW's directly behind her. Both are still long, elf-y ears though.

Mae · **12-05-2015, 01:16 PM**

(12-05-2015, 11:02 AM)Valence Wrote: You are sure that say, a chihuahua can reproduce and produce fertile offspring with a mastiff or something similar?

It is possible. Provided that the female mastiff is laying down or the male chihuahua is on some sort of elevated platform (... step-ladder, as the joke goes...) or it's artificially done; the mastiff will give birth to smaller-than-mastiff-breed-standard puppies. Female chihuahua to male mastiff would NOT work or be a safe choice even if done artificially; the puppies would be too big for the female to carry safely and/or to term.
As the puppies came into their own breeding rights, the males would likely be able to breed either naturally or artificially with pretty much whatever they wanted. The females, comparative sizes with potential mates would likely still need to be considered.

ANYWAYS.

I had a Duskwight alt for a while, and part of her theme was that she didn't look like a Duskwight. And as long as I kept direct sunlight or moonlight from hitting her face/skin, nobody knew for sure without me telling them; those who I RP with the most knew I had a preference for Duskwight, so they were suspicious of me running around on what appeared to be a Wildwood character. But as soon as she got hit directly in the face with sunlight or moonlight and the blue/grey tones that the Duskwight skin options have got highlighted, it was TOTALLY obvious.

So, as far as my experiences go, it's totally possible to at least make a (female) Duskwight that can pass as a Wildwood as long as you make careful creation decisions, not tell others, and stay mindful of the game environment. Provided, of course, you're not dealing with people who are going to metagame and do, like, a Lodestone search or someone who's gone and analyzed your character's face against DW and WW creation options.

Ashe · **12-05-2015, 07:28 PM**

(12-05-2015, 11:02 AM)Valence Wrote: You are sure that say, a chihuahua can reproduce and produce fertile offspring with a mastiff or something similar?

Yes!
Breeders do uuh...what's the word....
Taking sperm from one breed and putting it in another one.
Artificial insemination?Â
something like that...
All the time.

How do you the the Husky/Pomp mix exists?

Valence · **12-06-2015, 06:36 AM**

Oh I believe you. While I have always have dogs and the likes, I always thought there were a few different species in the whole lot. I guess I never really asked myself the question until now.

Khoure · **12-06-2015, 08:26 AM**

(12-05-2015, 11:02 AM)Valence Wrote: You are sure that say, a chihuahua can reproduce and produce fertile offspring with a mastiff or something similar?

it's got nothing to do with the physical difficulties of copulation, or the outward physical difficulties of carrying offspring to term and everything to do with how the egg and sperm interact and what happens to the offspring genetically. Species identification is actually a fair amount more complicated than this, for example with identifying dinosaur species, or bacteria and things that don't reproduce sexually.

that being said, the 'produce fertile offspring' rule is still sufficient as a condition, just not necessary.

Valence · **12-06-2015, 11:47 AM**

Heh, I know that. I still have some stuff left from my science studies...

Virella · **12-06-2015, 11:57 AM**

I'm not sure if Ishgardians would even really go under Wildwood/Duskwight type of thing, seeming they've been there for a thousand years at least in the form as we know it. But that's another question for another day I suppose x_X Guess Ishgardians, some of them, might be the 'purebloods' before the split of DW and WW? /flips table

Wtb loreteam answer on this one : <

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Physical differences between Duskwight and Wildwood

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes