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Dogberry · **03-18-2010, 01:01 PM**

From four pages ago:

Dogberry Wrote:I agree that exclusion is basically the only thing we can do should we have to take action. It certainly won't be a very tough sanction, and it shouldn't be.

And it shouldn't be because we're not the bosses of RP. If we ban someone, that should only go as far as our forums and events. If someone wants to RP with them let them. The minute you set yourself up as an exclusionary monolithic power structure people start taking pot shots at you just for the heck of it.

edit: OK, that was kind of funny. I knew the minute I'd say something like "three pages ago" it would put me on a new page.

Nanapariri · **03-18-2010, 01:02 PM**

Then we do agree I just have a bad memory. lol.

Sorry if I seem like I"m scolding.

Now that its cleared up I'm stopping posting for awhile. Laugh

Edit: I'll be John Hancock. I just want to give input while we discuss and be the first to sign the thing once its done lol.

Eva · **03-18-2010, 01:03 PM**

Quote:The Ang was because I think Kes and some other seem to feel we should limit membership with the same sort of criteria a guild would trying to make the whole community have the same RP style in effect. I'm saying why worry about small things like that.

No, I don't think that. Your analogy with Starsider and the couple of guilds that were "a bit out there" seems much akin to what I had in mind. I think it will probably be the role of the guilds to set these boundaries. We're on the same page here now.

Also I got dibs on John Adams. I'm not really well-liked, so it just works too well for me. Laugh

Dogberry · **03-18-2010, 01:04 PM**

Kes Wrote:Also I got dibs on John Adams. I'm not really well-liked, so it just works too well for me.

Well you get a cool HBO mini-series all to yourself. That's pretty cool.

River · **03-18-2010, 01:05 PM**

Seriously. This thread is just chasing tails at the moment. Let's take a step back for a bit and let some others have a say.

Dogberry · **03-18-2010, 01:06 PM**

I think if anything this thread shows the challenges the community has ahead of it. We've all been arguing over things we agree on.

Tyriont · **03-18-2010, 01:07 PM**

Typical RPers, really. We're all drama-whores, as much as we attempt to deny it...it's part of the basis of roleplay, after all. "Oh, we agree? Well, that's boring...let's argue over it anyway".

I'll chime in with my thoughts without really picking through the previous responses, so forgive me if I'm repeating points - just assume I'm agreeing with them instead.

Let SE handle conflict resolution. My understanding is that the whole point of this endeavour is to bring the Roleplayers together and setting up some sort of overarching council is contrary to that point. If there are serious issues, let SE deal with it. If it's not serious enough for SE to worry about...well, is it really that big of an issue anyway?

Let the RPC serve purely as a way of bonding, bringing the groups together. We post, we hang out, we forge new friendships. Cross-guild events are easy, the way I see it. The guild organizing the event is the one who has their rules followed. You want to attend an event and you're a 1000-year old necromancer, which is something not allowed by the rules of the organizing guild? Just don't go, or work with the leaders of that group to figure out a way to attend. Same with how that group handles combat or anything else that might arise. Keeps it nice and simple.

Sometimes there are groups who just don't gel with the rest of the community and that's fine. Those types of things tend to work themselves out anyway. If anyone's interfering with events, trolling the boards and whatnot...well, give each group's leader moderator access over the forums, that way everyone is represented.

Let each guild handle their own administration, keeping their members and stories in line with how they see things should work. Bouncing around various RP groups as I have, I've come to one overarching decision...ain't that many differences between them. Oh sure, some things are allowed in one group that aren't allowed in another, but overall I really see no reason why the groups can't coexist easily and peacefully.

In that regard, I'd make one major suggestion regarding these forums. No hidden sections. None whatsoever. Keep everything in full public view. I understand the need for those in individual guilds, discussing shell directions, whether to boot a member...things that need to be kept private. But with how I'd like to see the RPC go, I see absolutely no reason for it. Just breeds distrust in my opinion, so don't bother with it.

I'm starting to repeat myself a little, so I'll just sum up my points thusly:

Leave the problems to the individual guilds (or SE) to work out. Let the RPC be something that brings us together for cross-guild events, each event fitting with the rules of the organizer(s). Keep it fun, light and strengthen us. I've seen far too many communities collapse under their own rules and restrictions, so keep this part of things easy simple...and above all, fun.

That's why we're here after all, right?

~ Ty the Idealist

Nanapariri · **03-18-2010, 01:07 PM**

Dogberry Wrote:I think if anything this thread shows the challenges the community has ahead of it. We've all been arguing over things we agree on.

The great thing in this world is not so much where we stand, as in what direction we are moving.
- Oliver Wendell Holmes

I find it encouraging though everyone speaks their mind the discussion has all been reasonable and we are able to see each others views, though we might misunderstand at times, and in the end come out understanding despite challenges. The fact we can recognize that most of us are on the same page now in a lot of ways I think shows we are moving in a direction that is able to form a community despite differences.

Eva · **03-18-2010, 01:08 PM**

"Oh no not another Kes post..."
It's short, I promise. I have been trying my best to bite my tongue (fingers?) but I just wanted to put something out there, then I'll keep quiet again. I'm eager to hear other perspectives.

Tyriont Wrote:The guild organizing the event is the one who has their rules followed.

In support of this idea, maybe Castiel should create a section of the RPC forums whereby each guild's leader(s) can post their rules, policies, guidelines, views, whatever. Then when an event is posted, or even if an event randomly comes together*, there is a central hub where those rules may be reviewed or referenced. This would certainly help avoid any confusion, ease tensions, and be conducive to better cross-guild relations.

* During the random ones there may need to be some agreement on whose rules should be followed. I would think that even random events would normally be the result of an individual or small group of RPers that could make this distinction early in case any issues arose. Just covering all the bases. /endfootnote

River · **03-18-2010, 01:11 PM**

Kes Wrote:"Oh no not another Kes post..."
It's short, I promise. I have been trying my best to bite my tongue (fingers?) but I just wanted to put something out there, then I'll keep quiet again. I'm eager to hear other perspectives.

Tyriont Wrote:The guild organizing the event is the one who has their rules followed.
In support of this idea, maybe Castiel should create a section of the RPC forums whereby each guild's leader(s) can post their rules, policies, guidelines, views, whatever. Then when an event is posted, or even if an event randomly comes together*, there is a central hub where those rules may be reviewed or referenced. This would certainly help avoid any confusion, ease tensions, and be conducive to better cross-guild relations.

* During the random ones there may need to be some agreement on whose rules should be followed. I would think that even random events would normally be the result of an individual or small group of RPers that could make this distinction early in case any issues arose. Just covering all the bases. /endfootnote

I support both of these ideas. Well said.

Nanapariri · **03-18-2010, 01:12 PM**

Keir Wrote:
Kes Wrote:"Oh no not another Kes post..."
It's short, I promise. I have been trying my best to bite my tongue (fingers?) but I just wanted to put something out there, then I'll keep quiet again. I'm eager to hear other perspectives.

Tyriont Wrote:The guild organizing the event is the one who has their rules followed.
In support of this idea, maybe Castiel should create a section of the RPC forums whereby each guild's leader(s) can post their rules, policies, guidelines, views, whatever. Then when an event is posted, or even if an event randomly comes together*, there is a central hub where those rules may be reviewed or referenced. This would certainly help avoid any confusion, ease tensions, and be conducive to better cross-guild relations.

* During the random ones there may need to be some agreement on whose rules should be followed. I would think that even random events would normally be the result of an individual or small group of RPers that could make this distinction early in case any issues arose. Just covering all the bases. /endfootnote

I support both of these ideas. Well said.

This is a good idea.

Zane · **03-18-2010, 01:14 PM**

I'll keep my suggestions short. I read over most of the posts, but did not read some in their entirety so my apologies if it's already been said.

- I believe the RPC should act as an intermediary in some conflicts of interest between different Role-Playing groups, but only under certain situations. I believe that they should only offer counseling and reconciliation services if MORE than 50% of the involved guilds leaders request the intervention of the RPC. AKA: If two guilds are in a fight, one requests the intervention of the RPC and the other believes the two guilds can settle their differences, the RPC stays out. If, however, three guilds come into a disagreement and two of the three request the intervention of the RPC, the RPC will act as an intermediary ONLY. Taking no sides in the issue and helping to make all parties enter into a more amicable situation together, encouraging them to come to agreements together. The leaders of the RPC involved should only offer suggestions to correct the problems, not enforce behavior. This option will never be exercised in personal arguments of individual members of guilds unless their guild leaders elevate it to the RPC. Any personal grudges/grievances/differences are encouraged to be resolved between individuals or the individual's guilds per their separate guild rules.

- I also agree that if a particular group has demonstrated it's volatility towards the rest of the RPing community, they should have their rights revoked in this order, and only as the situation calls for it:

1) Advertising Membership on the RPC forums.
2) Advertising Events on the RPC forums.
3) Recognized as an RPC affiliate guild.
4) Posting rights on the RPC forums.

Posting rights should ONLY be revoked if the guild in question breaks numbers 1, 2, or 3, or begins to harass members on the RPC forums. In addition, it should be made known that each of these infractions will be removed under certain circumstances decided by the RPC at that time. (Whether it's time, or resolution of an issue, or apology.)

- It should also be noted that if a cross guild problem gets elevated to the RPC, anyone on the RPC "High Council" (Or whatever it becomes named) that is a member of the guilds in question should not act as an intermediary. If they are present for the resolution talks, they should talk on behalf of their guild (and hopefully, have a more moderate, neutral opinion on the matter).

- Individual members may report problems about other members or other guilds through the RPC, but the RPC will simply relay that message to the appropriate leaders. The RPC will keep the community informed, but again, will not act on issues unless specifically requested by the leadership of the guilds involved. This is simply designed as a tool for RPers that have an issue, but may be unsure who to report it to, or afraid to confront leaders of guilds about it. It is understood that anything reported to the RPC stays between the person filing the report, the leadership of the RPC, and the guild leaders involved. No one else should be made privy to the complaints unless the individual guild leadership decides to.

- The RPC's main purpose should be a hub for all of the different guilds to interact, share, and learn from each other. It should be used as a tool to speak to the rest of the FF XIV community about the Role-Playing community and points of interest for non-RPers. It should also act as a means of recruitment for prospecting members to Role-Play. New RPers should be encouraged to come to the RPC and browse the guilds to apply for the guild that suits them best. (Of course, separate guilds may continue to recruit as they see fit. The RPC will not be the sole recruiter of new RPers, but should be seen as an additional one.)

In essence, the RPC is the face of the Role-Playing community to Non-RPers. We should have conflict resolution built into the RPC from the beginning, but it should not be our main purpose. Conflict resolution should take place when there is a serious problem between guilds that is a conflict of interests and not a breach on ToS (Which should be reported to GMs). All guilds should be expected to take care of their own internal problems, disruptive members, and emphasis should be on the guilds own separate facilities. The RPC is not a police force, but more like a guidance counselor.

All in all, I agree that the RPC should start small rules and duties wise at launch, and should be expanded beyond this only as necessary when necessary, making sure to keep within the mission statement and purpose, never to overstep it. My apologies if that was long or confusing, but if there are any questions, I would be happy to clear up my opinion on the matter.

Kylin · **03-18-2010, 01:16 PM**

Okay, nobody has posted in a couple days. My guess is either that nobody new has anything to add or everything on their mind has already been said. Either way, we need to wrap this up before going public. As was stated by someone earlier, we can always modify/evolve over time as necessary. But here's how this will work. Generally, the creator of a major discussion thread will decide when to hold a formal vote on the matter. Depending on the issue, it may take a few days of discussion or a few weeks. We'll need to vote on this sometime early next week. Dogberry technically created this thread but I'm not going to put him in an awkward position since I separated the discussion to begin with. Thus, here is my proposal.

IÃ¢Â€Â™ve drafted a proposal together based on the responses here. Please review it and make any necessary suggestions for additions/deletions/modifications. This will eventually go up for an official vote after some time is spent to tweak it. If it gets voted down, we'll simply have to redo the proposal and try again until it passes.
========================================

* = The word Ã¢Â€ÂœguildÃ¢Â€Â will be replaced with whatever SE ends up calling them.

RPC -- Who are we?

I. Definition: The Roleplaying Coalition (RPC) is a group of roleplayers for the Final Fantasy XIV MMORPG. The coalition consists of various roleplay guilds*, supporters of roleplay, and freelance roleplayers. All of these groups are committed to making a prosperous roleplay community in the world of Hydaelyn.

II. Structure: The RPC is comprised of various guilds*. Each group is allowed to select up to 2 representatives for the RPC who will in turn serve on the RPC Council (name pending). Guilds* may select these individuals any way they wish. These representatives will serve as the face of the RPC and provide general updates of their group every few months or so. RPC guilds* may replace their own representatives at any time and through any methods they deem appropriate. The RPC must be notified of this change immediately via the Assembly Room, although specific details as to why they are replaced are not necessary.

The RPC Council (name pending) may call a meeting of all representatives at any time if representatives from at least two different guilds* call for the meeting. These meetings are meant primarily to determine if a political/drama related issue should be brought before the entire RPC or remain as a guild* only concern. If anything is brought to the entire RPC, a public discussion must be held on the matter and then a public vote regarding the RPCÃ¢Â€Â™s official stance will be held.

III. Purposes (in order of importance):

A) To provide a central hub for all FFXIV roleplayers to gather, communicate, and share with one another. The RPC provides an outlet for roleplayers and acts as a resource while continuing to support and foster roleplay.

B) To provide a central location for guild* advertisement. All member guilds will be advertised on the main site and have further information compiled on the forums regarding their rules, structure, and other important information.

C) To select a designated roleplaying server. This server will be voted on by all coalition members upon receiving a server list. In the event that SE designates an official RP server, this vote will not be necessary unless more than one such server is designated. This particular mission statement will be removed upon getting ourselves organized on the designated server.

D) To create and advertise cross-guild* and/or public roleplay related events. Each event will follow the rules set forth by the event organizers. These rules will be organized in a central location on the forums for easy access.

E) To create and maintain etiquette for roleplaying in Hydaelyn. This etiquette is not enforced in any way and is meant to be more of a guide for all roleplayers to consider. All of these guides will be discussed and voted on by the RPC before being placed on the main site.

F) To act as a mediator in guild* conflict only when absolutely necessary for the continuation of the overall roleplay community. If the RPC representatives deem it necessary, the issue in question can be brought up for public discussion and then a public vote. Generally, all guilds* are asked to handle conflicts between one another with each other rather than bringing it to the RPC. If this conflict begins to encroach the entire roleplay community in a negative fashion, the RPC may have to step in for the sake of the communityÃ¢Â€Â™s well being.

G) To act as a liaison between the roleplay community and the general public, as well as a liaison between the roleplay community and Square Enix.

IV. Powers: The RPC has the power to manage this site and the forums for the RPC. Please review the RPC Charter on the forums for further details. The RPC also has the power to drop support of a guild* if said guild* is causing direct damage to the entire roleplay community. See III-F for further details on the process.

V. Acceptance into the RPC: In order for a guild* to be accepted into the RPC, the following criteria must be met.
1. The guild* must have some form of RP element to it.
2. The guild* must consist of at least 3 members.
3. The guild* must have a clean record with the RPC (no griefing the entire RP community, etc).

Freelance roleplayers and general supporters of roleplay are not subject to these criteria, though they are also expected to be respectful at all times.

===============================

Regarding the structure sectionÃ¢Â€Â¦IÃ¢Â€Â™m hesitant to outright say that all RPC representatives will be given forum moderation powers. IÃ¢Â€Â™ve seen many instances where some with such powers wreak havoc on their own forums after getting ticked off over something. They remove a bunch of posts and whatnot and just try to destroy everything out of anger. Catching them before they cause too much damage isnÃ¢Â€Â™t always easy. IÃ¢Â€Â™ve watched my own linkshell forums in the past get hit in this way and IÃ¢Â€Â™ve watched other groups (RP and non-RP alike) get hit like this. So are there any suggestions to this dilemma?

Also with the structure section, any other duties the RPC reps should have aside from general updates?

Other comments/suggestions are definitely welcome. Please keep in mind that we can reevaluate all of this right before the game launches. But for now, we need to define ourselves so the public will know who we are.

River · **03-18-2010, 01:17 PM**

Generally, I (and my guild) accept these terms. I still do not believe that the RPC should intervene between guilds*, but as it is worded, I am not bound into this decision. I can live with it.

In terms of representatives, I will be one, and my liaison to other guilds*, when chosen, will be the second.

As far as going public, my guild* (previously The Lost Boys,) is still in the process of choosing a new name. In the meantime, we can be referred to as The Lost Boys, with the knowledge that the name will change once this process is complete.

I'm correct in thinking that there will be a listing of guilds* somewhere on the forums, with links to their own sites and information about them?

Eva · **03-18-2010, 01:18 PM**

Regarding the forums and corrupted mods deleting posts:

Castiel Wrote:So are there any suggestions to this dilemma?

phpBB offers a means of customizing very specifically what priviliges each group has. Rather than using the pre-defined 'moderators' that phpBB has set up, consider creating a customized moderator group which has the ability to move posts to a hidden Trash forum (I know the concept of hidden forums and secrecy was discussed but might be prudent for moving spam threads and advertisements and such, at least until such a time that you can review/delete them yourself). In this way, you can create a group and completely revoke its ability to delete any posts but allow them to move them as needed, thus enabling them to still perform their duty.

If you need any assistance setting this up, please feel free to PM me and I can walk you through it.

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