RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

Solenne · **06-08-2017, 01:04 AM**

Have you even been reading the posts in this thread? A lot of people on Balmung are helping alreadyÂ or have plans to do so when free transfers become a thing. It's not lip service. Time and effort are being put forth, or they soon will be.

And as for the other Balmung RPers who want to continue enjoying this game that they pay money for in the community that they have already grown deeply attached to? They don't deserve to be bullied or lectured. They don't actually owe you anything. Your sense of entitlement is truly mind-blowing.

foxfirestorm · **06-08-2017, 01:29 AM**

I have to agree here. Many people from Balmung have come to our assistance on Mateus and I love the fact that the community is working together as a whole. While there are some people who don't desire to. That is fine. They don't have to.

Even vocal support to me, is still support we need, plus-- well-- they pay for their own sub. They have the right to choose where they go, how they go, and what they want to do.

People are doing what they can do and I know for myself, I am glad to even see a small sliver of help, because even that adds up in the long run.

Erah'sae · **06-08-2017, 01:43 AM**

Ye bloody gods.... Â
*kicks his soapbox back over and climbs up.

To be fair, yes, yes my enjoyment of the game does come first. Â That's more or less as it should be. Â This is 'entertainment'. Â A 'game'. Â A 'hobby'. Â Something I pay money to enjoy.

To be exact my 'enjoyment priorities' are:
- my family
- my friends
- my community
- mine
- Everyone else

This is more or less how I -except- everyone else's to be. Â If you need me to explain why this hierarchy is important, I'll be more then happy to go through at length back channel.

To expect people to altruistically bail on family, friends, and community is laughable.
Do you bail on your friends and family to just randomly go say "Hay, I'm moving to (insert other dis-paring city of choice) because said city needs some quality people?" Â

Ye gods.... we're already pointing people in your direction. Â Some are even running events for you. (*waves to Leggerless* Â He's running a grindstone over there.) Advice on how to make things stick. Â Advertising for you. Â

If this level of entitlement where the norm, (which thankfully it's not) I'd just distance myself from it and start warning people away.

Edit, since I got distracted by Nefzen: One of the big reasons we're not all over there setting things up for you beyond giving advice, is your community needs to learn to walk before it can run. In fact it needs to learn to stand on it's own two legs. We -can't- do that for you, because when we go back, we -won't- be there.

PS: Nefzen wants me to link this in case you need more tips and tricks for setting up an event:
http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=16358

PPS: yes, she's fixing the images. Blasted old tumblr image links.

Lydia Lightfoot · **06-08-2017, 01:56 AM**

This is an interesting topic... so here's my two cents, which are worth zero cents.

1. I agree with the others. $18 was and continues to be a paltry sum. You can't go to the movies and get a popcorn and drink for $18, and the RP on Balmung has been far more valuable. It's also not hard to earn, if one's budget is tight. Mow exactly one lawn. Dogsit for somebody one time. Wash a couple neighbor's cars. Sell something you don't need anymore on Ebay rather than throwing it away. Clean an old lady's house. I could make a compelling argument that it requires more effort to avoid earning $18 than it does to earn it.

2. The argument of not having to pay more money just to be able to do a thing is pretty moot in a world where every video game that isn't awful (and some that are) have DLC and the players of those games seem all too cheerful to pay more money to be able to do a thing when it's labeled as DLC. The established RP community on Balmung was essentially DLC. Want in, there you go. Take a hard look at your Skyrim, Fallout, Mass Effect, etc, library before you disagree with the concept.

3. The analogy of apartments is absurd. That literally never happens in any real world community, as described. I'm not even going to go into detail picking that apart, and I enjoy picking things apart; that is how ludicrous it is.

4. Yes, people in a community can absolutely extend their support toward another community without actually doing anything to tangibly support that community. All those people who change their Facebook picture every time there's a disaster of some kind? All the people who hear about someone's illness and reply "keeping you in our thoughts"? That's a real world application of the same thing. Is it silly? Yep. Is it just as silly here? Sure, but, at the end of the day, this is a game, and no one is actually harmed by a lack of tangible support. Take that protest energy to Facebook and start telling people there to get off their butts and actually donate to causes instead of superimposing flags over their faces. That might actually change somebody's life.

5. No, nobody on Balmung owes anything to anyone anywhere else. We're here to play a game and we're playing the game. A long time ago, before Balmung became a behemoth, there wasn't a roleplay community there either. Some people put in a lot of effort and a lot of time and a lot of patience, and they built it. To anyone who believes tangible effort by Balmung players is owed to build up another server, I ask: Where were you when Balmung was struggling to get built up? Did you contribute to that? If so, alright, maybe you're owed a little something in return. Why not. But if you weren't there, way back then - and I wasn't either - then why do you believe you're due help now when you didn't help back then? Were you even playing FF14 back then, or were you playing a different game entirely and didn't care about the effort people in a game you weren't playing were putting into building a roleplay community? Yet now when others are giving the same to you in return, you complain? Can you see how that's unfair, and how that makes you look?

6. This is my strongest point, and I really, really hope you will listen to this one. Given that Balmung is locked and we have no reason to believe it's temporary, you do not need the support of Balmung players to create a strong and healthy new community. At all.Â Merely by the servers being locked, newcomers to the game can't go to Balmung. They do not have a choice. All they can do is look at the other servers, and if your server happens to be flailing arms and proclaiming them welcome, and it's a friendly atmosphere and helpful to newcomers, can you guess where they will go? Will they sit, not playing the game, and pine away hoping Balmung will one day open up - or will they go to your server, make friends there, settle in, and then even if Balmung does open again, they'll be rooted and have no motivation to leave? See, it's that very rooting which makes Balmung players unwilling to leave Balmung. Others have said as much, too. That will happen with your server, too, if you maintain a positive environment and you're welcoming to newcomers. Further, the longer that Balmung remains closed, the more likely it is that all of their own accord - with no convincing needed on your part - Balmung players will migrate, because they'll have new friends who want to play and can't join them on Balmung, or maybe, if nothing else, the grass looks greener on the other side. But what you're doing right now, this isn't helping the grass to look greener. Please see that. Please stop the negative feelings, and be positive. If the public face you show is negative, then instead of newcomers going to your server when the hit the Balmung wall, they'll bounce off it and right back to WoW or wherever else they came from. Nobody wants drama, and if they feel like what they see even before making a character looks dramatic, they won't even give you a try.

Erah'sae · **06-08-2017, 02:00 AM**

Thanks Lydia. Â

I'll admit I got a bit hacked off reading the post I replied to, you put it far more eloquently.

edit: clarity

Tyndles · **06-08-2017, 02:02 AM**

Thankfully this is not the attitude of most of the people going to Mateus, or it would be doomed to fail.

LiadansWhisper · **06-08-2017, 02:58 AM**

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that I was obligated to spend what little time I have to RP in between my real life obligations on other servers where I don't even know anyone.

I wish Mateus luck, but no one is obligated to devote their time or energy in building a community they're not even intending to be a part of.

Flashhelix · **06-08-2017, 04:27 AM**

this is a videogame

i cannot stress this enough

it's a videogame and people play it for fun, it is a leisure activity

in no way, shape or form are other people playing the videogame obligated to come over to your server and do busywork to make your videogame experience better, it's the equivalent of me asking you to come to my house and blow into my sega cartridges

it's really that simple

so yeah

do it yourself

ArmachiA · **06-08-2017, 07:17 AM**

Man, you cannot expect Balmung people to start you're community for you. It's YOUR community. It needs to be build off the backs of people who are going to stay there, not a bunch of temporary Balmung-ians who are their to "help". That will HURT more than it will help - not only your community, but the Balmung community as well.

Balmung can give support in the way of telling people to go there, or even some people wanting to transfer off. They have been doing that, but they cannot hold Mateus's hand. It's going to live or die by the people who are going to create a voice on THAT server. It needs to find it's own footing to be successful.

Askier · **06-08-2017, 07:31 AM**

I'll give you some lip service.

Ahem.

No.

Not just no but heck no. No one owes you or Mateus or me, hell, anyone rping, hell anyone period anything. I'm sorry buddy but that's life. This isn't some utopia were everyone has stupid amounts of free time. This is life Dawgs. Cruel. Mean. Unfair. Uncaring. Don't give two shites if you life or die life. And sometimes, to get what you want, you gotta put on dem adult pants and embrace the suck and worl hard to get what you want. Ain't no one gonna help you out if you keep bitching like that. You want help? Start busting your ass and then, after a few weeks or months of events you have hosted, say 'hey you Dawgs I been working hard to make Mateus awesome but could use some help. This is what I've done. What advice or help can you offer." That's proves you care and are not just a lazy peon who wants other people to do the work and that you are worth helping. Cause, again, no one owes you a thing in life. You earn everything, including respect. And right now, with comments like you dropped, you blew your damn foot off in that department.

Mercer · **06-08-2017, 08:12 AM**

So... look. I'm one of those Balmung people that transferred over to Mateus to help get settled and promote community growth. How's it going?

I'm going to lay down some fucking data here, since the conceived notion that Mateus isn't growing or isn't becoming more active is 100% incorrect.

The Mateus RP Hub has grown so much that events are happening daily. They aren't just spur of the moment activities either, there are planned out events happening constantly where it used to be weekly or bi-weekly.Â

The RPM, the RP linkshell of Mateus, is getting ready to open it's 3rd linkshell. That means we are quickly hitting 250 active players. This is a mains only linkshell.Â

Mateus itself has grown by over 700 characters in the last three months alone and is the second fastest growing server behind Cactuar. You know something about Cactuar? It's the largest open server on NA. Mateus is the smallest even after the 700 people. Hell, Mateus has gained 16% of it's total population in the last 3 months alone. This doesn't include anyone under 35.

Between my poll and Leggerless's poll, over 400 people have given their vote to support Mateus. With the RPM/RP Hub growth coupled with server populations flourishing it is plainly obvious that not only are people rolling on Mateus there are also transfers (such as I) going to bring Mateus up.Â

Your notion that you think so few are willing to help is wrong when data and events say the opposite. If you feel like more should be done pick up the slack yourself and help build up Mateus.

Flynn Rosenberg · **06-08-2017, 08:40 AM**

I think ya'll looking into it a little too much and being harsh on someone basically asking for help. It might have come off the wrong way of asking but do we need a whole page of it? At the end of the day, many people come from different communities where we aren't met with a locked server, we aren't met with an extra paywall to join. It doesn't matter how much it is to transfer, that's not the point. With a thread like this, makes you think is it really worth the fee anyway.

Balmung is closed, Mateus is growing and it should have been done sooner. An EU place is also in the works. That's it, nothing more we can do at this point than go on in circles.

Sylentmana · **06-08-2017, 08:55 AM**

The responses to my last post really on serve to prove my point correct. Some people in your community ask for help, you tell them to fuck off. And yes, by the very nature of being involved in a community, you are obligated to help those who ask for it. That's the point of a community; to be there for each other when they need it.

As for those who think I need to 'put my money where my mouth is' so to speak, I have transferred my main to Mateus last night and will be playing there to support its community. I think this will also be my last post on the issue. I've said my peace.

Here, have a kitten
[Image: giphy.gif]

Gegenji · **06-08-2017, 08:57 AM**

I've been avoiding these threads like the plague for a while now, but this is a point I think needs to be emphasized. For every person like foxfirestorm who is taking time out of their own day for a hobby to push and promote and try to inspire more RP on other servers, for each of those hardworking folk... their efforts can be so heavily undermined by the vocal minority that gets snippy and entitled and downright vicious towards people who aren't immediately jumping on the bandwagon to leap to the other servers.

People who do that? You are undoing their work with your attitude. A few careless comparisons and posts and comments are undoing a lot of actual effort that is being put into this. If your ranting and negativity is driving people away from going to that server, you are doing far more damage than the "inactivity" and "lip service" of someone on Balmung. Far more, you are actually hindering growth - since people seem more inclined to speak up about bad experiences than good ones.

As an example? I'm not really going through all these different threads on the matter but... the people from Balmung who do transfer or make an alt? The ones that are trying to help? I've been hearing that some of them are getting backlash anyway for doing so. From people on Mateus who don't want them there or don't want them buying up the housing plots. It sounds very much like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation that is not going to be healthy for anyone involved. And even if it's in the minority of encounters, the fact that such things are getting to folks like me who aren't paying that much attention? That's not going to help things.

And, making folks less willing to help by berating them and making them dig in their heels because you feel they're "obligated" to lend a hand? Again, even it's a small number of people doing it, it's going to cause negativity and less willingness to help out. As Askier said, no one really "needs" to do anything in this situation. There is no "obligation."

For example, SE doesn't "need" to mark servers as RP servers - Besaid/Balmung and to a lesser extent Gilgamesh built up without any effort or extra work on their side at all. And we have alternatives popping up now like Mateus that also have required no input from SE's side. The free transfers might help with that, but that's specifically to try to trim numbers on overfilled servers than help the RP effort. You cannot and should not expect help from them - anything they do is purely out of goodwill for a small subset of its player-base.

More close to home, no one "needs" to transfer from Balmung to Mateus, or Faerie, or Siren, or wherever else the other RP communities are. The people that are doing this are doing it out of their own good-will and a personal desire to help in what is essentially a hobby that honestly shouldn't impose the kind of obligations that these few vocal people are apparently demanding of them. They are selflessly uprooting themselves from a place of establishment and comfort to help foster and help those that can't get there. Rather than bashing the people who aren't doing it, we should be praising and commending those that are. Making what they're doing more of a positive might even make more people willing to do it, which is a far sight better than getting on the ones that don't and subsequently making them dig in their heels all the more and spreading all this negativity.

Heck, we don't even "need" to try and promote other servers if we really want to get down to it. Balmung is locked and so people are going to have to find other places - that's a given - and people from those places are hopefully doing things to point the newcomers their way. There's no obligation for anyone else to do it for you, yet we have people doing that anyway. It's like opening your own store - you have to advertise and get word of mouth going on your own - you can't expect people to stop going to, say, Wal-Mart and come to your little place because you're new and just starting out. In fact, that sort of self-entitlement actually has hurt a lot of mom and pop stores - and that's people doing that with a job instead of just a hobby. With real money and livelihoods involved.

And yet here we are. Not only are folks from Balmung and the RPC letting new folks know "Hey, we know Balmung's locked... but Mateus is open and building up!", we have people who are moving from Balmung to Mateus to help them along. And, yet, we apparently want to instead focus on the ones who aren't doing it. Or, worse, get on the folks that are and villainize them for somehow harming this burgeoning community or harming the RP community at large by "fracturing" the RP player base.

It's mind-boggling. It's frustrating. And, to be honest? I think it's pretty stupid and self-defeating. We're polarizing ourselves. Making it into an "Us Vs. Them" situation.

Movers vs. Stayers
Those for keeping RPers together vs. Spreading them out
Balmung vs. Mateus
RPers vs. Non-RPers

And I think doing that is going to cause way more damage to the RP scene than anything else. It's these self-made lines in the sand that will continue to cause the problems. From what I heard? Gilgamesh floundered from this "Versus" mindset - both non-RPers actively harassing the RPers and the Gilgamesh RPers themselves thinking they were in some sort of "competition" with Balmung. How much of that is true and how much of it is just hearsay, I don't know, but if any modicum of it is true then that goes to show just how much this sort of behavior can ruin thing.

So, all in all?

1.) Folks like foxfirestorm? You keep being awesome. You're getting these other RP locales noticed. You're helping the overall FFXIV RP community by allowing choice and diversity, especially in the situation we got blindsided with. You are to be commended and lauded for the efforts you are doing of your own volition to help better the RP environment in this game.

2.) The people who are actively moving over to these servers from Balmung - either with their mains or alts? You also keep being awesome. Uprooting yourself and/or trying to balance giving attentions to alts in this very-not-alt-friendly game is a big move to make for something that is ultimately a hobby. Kudos on you guys, and double-kudos if you're also helping start up and run events on these servers.

3.) For those who are just pointing all the new folks to these other servers? Guess what? You're also awesome. Even giving direction and help to someone trying to get into this hobby (perhaps for the first time!) is something that should be commended. Not only that, you're helping out those servers with additional advertising that helps take just that little bit more workload off them. That's awesome.

I, personally, want to continue praising those who are stepping up for their hobby when they didn't have to. Rather than bash those who are simply enjoying the hobby or are unable to put as much effort into it as they would like due to whatever constraints there are. And I'll keep using the word "awesome" to describe them because they are, in fact, being awesome.

And that more or less ends my rambling, potentially pointless tirade about this whole situation in general. I think. I don't even know anymore, I think I ranted myself into confusion. Not to mention edited it a couple times to try and clarify some points and I'm just throwing up my hands at this point and saying "I'm done."

I've said my piece on the matter and now I'll likely just go back to avoiding these threads again.

ArmachiA · **06-08-2017, 09:09 AM**

This is a weird way of thinking. I'm involved in my community in real life via politics. I pushed for a candidate pretty hard in my state, pushed the pavement when I could, went to events, went to protests - that sort of thing. I do not think that everyone should do that. People have lives, jobs, kids, other obligations. Just because I saw someone with a bumper sticker supporting the same candidate as me, didn't mean I knocked on their window and tell them they had to get out there. The bumper sticker was actually enough - it shows they new enough about Politics to tell everyone who they were voting for.

I don't think you realize how big of a deal word of mouth actually IS. Because of Balmung players going "Mateus is your best bet" it's quickly QUICKLY risen above any other server that tried to have a foothold on RP. It's become the home of people ex-Balmung people like Kylin and Oswin - who don't hate Balmung but want to help grow a new community. It's become the second fastest growing server. The community has grown from 1 linkshell to 3.

How is that not helping, exactly?

An Essay on the Balmung "Problem"

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes