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Illira · **10-29-2013, 11:26 AM**

(10-29-2013, 10:44 AM)Olofantur Wrote:
(10-29-2013, 10:38 AM)Naunet Wrote: I feel like Twinflame and I were the only people who did not run out of quests even once leveling to 50. xD Do not understand. We never deliberately FATE grinded, though we did them when we ran into them. The bulk of our leveling was just quests, hunting and GC log, and dungeons.

Seconded, never touched FATEs on my WHM, which was the first one I leveled that wasn't at 50 from 1.0. I made a point of stopping by pretty much every high level zone and snagging the 3-4 quests that had to do with the Beast tribes in each area.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Catego...uest/26-50

Sorted by level and look at the size of the 45-50 group, while spread out, and hardly as numerous as lower level, I don't get how people seem to think FATEs are the only option. (most efficient cost/effort yes, even with the Dark Devices nerf)

Even if those quests do get you through to 50, I know for me, I ran out of quests in Mor Dhona around 44/45 and then just gave up and FATE grinded. I think a big issue, as I've expressed, is the way in which SE does quest threading, which is exacerbated after Mor Dhona. It gets sporadic in its spread, with no real indication of where the player needs to be to continue questing. If there is a thread that does so... its obviously not a strong/highly visible one, because a large % of people don't see it, and just FATE grind. And believe me, I was probably the last player to /want/ to FATE my way through the last few levels.

Even after I got to the point where I could pick the main quest back up (lvl restrictions had kept me from so), it just wasn't worth it to try to scrape the bottom of the barrel for quests, as I know that I would have found that much more frustrating than just continue on the path that I was on. And having an outside list of quests doesn't excuse bad quest thread design. Its helpful if you happen to have it, but that isn't an answer to the problem, which there obviously is one, when a large percentage of the player population finds themselves without quests.Â

The recommendation list they have added helps, but its only good at picking up quests when you are in that particular area, and if you happen to exit it on login its not easy to get back on screen (can you even? I haven't found a button/key to bring it back up >.>).

Olofantur · **10-29-2013, 11:35 AM**

(10-29-2013, 11:26 AM)Illira Wrote: Even if those quests do get you through to 50, I know for me, I ran out of quests in Mor Dhona around 44/45 and then just gave up and FATE grinded. I think a big issue, as I've expressed, is the way in which SE does quest threading, which is exacerbated after Mor Dhona. It gets sporadic in its spread, with no real indication of where the player needs to be to continue questing. If there is a thread that does so... its obviously not a strong/highly visible one, because a large % of people don't see it, and just FATE grind. And believe me, I was probably the last player to /want/ to FATE my way through the last few levels.

Even after I got to the point where I could pick the main quest back up (lvl restrictions had kept me from so), it just wasn't worth it to try to scrape the bottom of the barrel for quests, as I know that I would have found that much more frustrating than just continue on the path that I was on. And having an outside list of quests doesn't excuse bad quest thread design. Its helpful if you happen to have it, but that isn't an answer to the problem, which there obviously is one, when a large percentage of the player population finds themselves without quests.Â

The recommendation list they have added helps, but its only good at picking up quests when you are in that particular area, and if you happen to exit it on login its not easy to get back on screen (can you even? I haven't found a button/key to bring it back up >.>).

Yes you can get it back up on screen, as to the rest, I suppose i'm just used to having quests being tucked away in the corners of the world, EQ and 1.0 were a harsh mistresses. I wasn't saying its easy, just providing an outside resource, the Srirachi sauce to an otherwise bland meal.

Illira · **10-29-2013, 11:49 AM**

(10-29-2013, 11:35 AM)Olofantur Wrote: Yes you can get it back up on screen, as to the rest, I suppose i'm just used to having quests being tucked away in the corners of the world, EQ and 1.0 were a harsh mistresses. I wasn't saying its easy, just providing an outside resource, the Srirachi sauce to an otherwise bland meal.

.... You wouldn't happen to want to spread that knowledge of how to get the recommendations list back up on screen would you?

I actually did play EQ1 back in the day, lol. I know it all to well... But its really pretty hard to compare EQ1 with ARR in this instance, at least not as being very similar studies in this case. EQ1 was /far-and-away/ more of a sandbox world in its design right from the get go. While ARR depends on a lot of back and forth fetch questing to lead you around. Both approaches are valid. The problem is that ARR suddenly keeps all the bread crumbs in its pocket during the last stretch, breaking the previously established game flow. Which isn't great.Â

As a side note: I spent most of my time in EQ working to become the most awesome chef ever.

Nebbs · **10-29-2013, 11:59 AM**

The recommendations are in the abilities/actions thing. Press P and it us in there someplace (not at my pc atm). Looks like a pointing hand. You can also get it to popup when you enter an area.

Olofantur · **10-29-2013, 12:01 PM**

(10-29-2013, 11:49 AM)Illira Wrote: As a side note: I spent most of my time in EQ working to become the most awesome chef ever.

I was lobbing fireballs and leveling A sub character for Teleport. Made a few forays into potion making but it was kinda... blech and I had little patience for advertising myself in those days. I can understand the sand box comparison, I suppose I meant it more along the lines of people yelling at me over Ventrillo not to enter certain areas because Ogres would beat the daylights out of me so I got used to exploring and sneaking around.

The list should show up on the red button area under actions iirc?, but i'm not at home to bring it up at the moment. Maybe some one who can RDC from work and check could chime in with a screen shot, if not i'll take one when I get home.

Back to the topic at hand, have you also made sure to do your Guildhests? they're a pretty sizable chunk of exp for the first one. Not worth farming, but (on the later ones.) a decent intro to 8-mans for people still leveling.

Illira · **10-29-2013, 12:37 PM**

(10-29-2013, 11:59 AM)Nebbs Wrote: The recommendations are in the abilities/actions thing. Press P and it us in there someplace (not at my pc atm). Looks like a pointing hand. You can also get it to popup when you enter an area.

Sweet, I'll see if I can find it under actions when I'm next on. I was looking for it under journal, maps, etc. but never saw anything. Actions seems like kind of a strange place for it.

(10-29-2013, 12:01 PM)Olofantur Wrote: I can understand the sand box comparison, I suppose I meant it more along the lines of people yelling at me over Ventrillo not to enter certain areas because Ogres would beat the daylights out of me so I got used to exploring and sneaking around.

Haha, I loved that about EQ. It encouraged caution and thought in travel, because the world was legitimately dangerous and held consequences for stupid, weak, and underprepared (xp loss and corpse running /hurt/ man [... I almost lost my corpse in an ocean one time...]).Â

I also recall making a low level wood-elf rogue to go sneak around mistmoor to explore. It was quite a lot of fun to do that, lol. Some of the folk who were around would help me out with environment triggers so I didn't get locked in a closet Big Grin

Quote:Back to the topic at hand, have you also made sure to do your Guildhests? they're a pretty sizable chunk of exp for the first one. Not worth farming, but (on the later ones.) a decent intro to 8-mans for people still leveling.

Nope, stopped doing those around... 20s? They were never something on my mind, and most other folk ignored them as well. Not saying they maybe shouldn't be done for the xp, but a big issue with them is that they are maybe more explicit in their teaching of dungeon mechanics, but they don't really add much to the game as a whole.

Olofantur · **10-29-2013, 12:47 PM**

(10-29-2013, 12:37 PM)Illira Wrote: Nope, stopped doing those around... 20s? They were never something on my mind, and most other folk ignored them as well. Not saying they maybe shouldn't be done for the xp, but a big issue with them is that they are maybe more explicit in their teaching of dungeon mechanics, but they don't really add much to the game as a whole.

As a note, the advice i've offered is for EVG, not you as you already sound to have a set path and aren't the thread OP.

But not doing them? Really? I always make a point of making sure new people have run through them, while they introduce mechanics they also reward a very large chunk of XP, its kind of bonkers for the amount of effort required. Like the Hunting Log.

At least I know that my FC always runs people through them before they're allowed to do HM's & AK with us since the level 40 8-man can be taxing if people don't pay attention. Again just another tool in the large set Squee has provided.

EDIT: my attempts to sound less like an ass.

Illira · **10-29-2013, 01:03 PM**

(10-29-2013, 12:47 PM)Olofantur Wrote: As a note, this advice is for EVG, not you as you already sound to have a set path.

Me? Yeah. I capped a while back. I was just offering my own set of advice and opinions on the matter of design and FATEs.

(10-29-2013, 12:47 PM)Olofantur Wrote: At least I know that my FC always runs people through them before they're allowed to do HM's & AK with us since the level 40 8-man can be taxing if people don't pay attention. Again just another tool in the large set Squee has provided.

As I wrote, I don't think that they are useless. Their xp the first time you run them is good, and they do explicitly teach mechanics.Â

All I'm saying is that, I've never run into folk that swear by their necessity, much less think about them after they initially run into them in the early game.

LeCard · **10-29-2013, 01:14 PM**

one other important point of note that people really need to be made more aware of.

On the FATEs where you turn items in please, please do not turn things in until time is about to run out. If your party kills the (endless) mobs as they spawn you can rake in the exp by having a very high kill chain and continuing to kill the mobs. If you turn the items in early you only cut the FATE short and lose out on alot of potential exp.Â

I said it in my first post, but I will restate it here, if you kill 10 mobs in 5 mins at 300exp a pop you get 3k exp. Now, with the fetch FATEs you can push that kill amount to maybe even 40-50 mobs in those 5 mins. that=12-15k exp in 5mins. if the FATE last 15 mins you can get 45kexp from a single FATE no including the bonus when you turn the items in at the end.

LiadansWhisper · **10-29-2013, 01:44 PM**

(10-29-2013, 10:38 AM)Naunet Wrote: I feel like Twinflame and I were the only people who did not run out of quests even once leveling to 50. xD Do not understand. We never deliberately FATE grinded, though we did them when we ran into them. The bulk of our leveling was just quests, hunting and GC log, and dungeons.

I did every single quest available to me, as well as my entire GC and class logs. Â I even did Leves, and I did dungeons, too, and I started running out of quests around level 44-ish.

I've gone back and looked in areas, and the only quests I can find are locked to level 48 or 49, which would have been helpful when I was 46 trying to find quests to do instead of Fates, but by the time I actually hit 48 it just made more sense to keep going farming the Fates with the group I was with.

LiadansWhisper · **10-29-2013, 01:48 PM**

(10-29-2013, 12:47 PM)Olofantur Wrote:
(10-29-2013, 12:37 PM)Illira Wrote: Nope, stopped doing those around... 20s? They were never something on my mind, and most other folk ignored them as well. Not saying they maybe shouldn't be done for the xp, but a big issue with them is that they are maybe more explicit in their teaching of dungeon mechanics, but they don't really add much to the game as a whole.

As a note, the advice i've offered is for EVG, not you as you already sound to have a set path and aren't the thread OP.

But not doing them? Really? I always make a point of making sure new people have run through them, while they introduce mechanics they also reward a very large chunk of XP, its kind of bonkers for the amount of effort required. Like the Hunting Log.

At least I know that my FC always runs people through them before they're allowed to do HM's & AK with us since the level 40 8-man can be taxing if people don't pay attention. Again just another tool in the large set Squee has provided.

EDIT: my attempts to sound less like an ass.

Guildheists only give you the bonus XP the first time you do them, btw. Â Which is why theyr'e less useful for subsequent classes if you've already done them on your main class. Â I'm not 100% sure if it's the same for dungeons, though. Â I have been in a dungeon where every single person had been there on another class, but we still all got bonus XP on the class we were leveling, so it may be judging you based on the class you're in, not your actual presence in the dungeon previously.

I don't think I need tutoring in mechanics. Â Smile

Â This isn't my first dog and pony show. Â Big Grin

Olofantur · **10-29-2013, 03:11 PM**

(10-29-2013, 01:48 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Guildheists only give you the bonus XP the first time you do them, btw. Â Which is why theyr'e less useful for subsequent classes if you've already done them on your main class. Â I'm not 100% sure if it's the same for dungeons, though. Â I have been in a dungeon where every single person had been there on another class, but we still all got bonus XP on the class we were leveling, so it may be judging you based on the class you're in, not your actual presence in the dungeon previously.

I don't think I need tutoring in mechanics. Â Â This isn't my first dog and pony show. Â

(10-29-2013, 12:01 PM)Olofantur Wrote: Back to the topic at hand, have you also made sure to do your Guildhests? they're a pretty sizable chunk of exp for the first one. Not worth farming, but (on the later ones.) a decent intro to 8-mans for people still leveling.

Pointed out the "First time" note in my post when I mentioned them

Also as I said in that post, "this information is for the OP", not for every veteran that chimes in along the way. Clearly you understand the mechanics as does everyone else with a 50, this thread isn't for them.

LiadansWhisper · **10-29-2013, 07:45 PM**

(10-29-2013, 03:11 PM)Olofantur Wrote:
(10-29-2013, 01:48 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Guildheists only give you the bonus XP the first time you do them, btw. Â Which is why theyr'e less useful for subsequent classes if you've already done them on your main class. Â I'm not 100% sure if it's the same for dungeons, though. Â I have been in a dungeon where every single person had been there on another class, but we still all got bonus XP on the class we were leveling, so it may be judging you based on the class you're in, not your actual presence in the dungeon previously.

I don't think I need tutoring in mechanics. Â Â This isn't my first dog and pony show. Â

(10-29-2013, 12:01 PM)Olofantur Wrote: Back to the topic at hand, have you also made sure to do your Guildhests? they're a pretty sizable chunk of exp for the first one. Not worth farming, but (on the later ones.) a decent intro to 8-mans for people still leveling.

Pointed out the "First time" note in my post when I mentioned them

Also as I said in that post, "this information is for the OP", not for every veteran that chimes in along the way. Clearly you understand the mechanics as does everyone else with a 50, this thread isn't for them.

Well, ah, to be honest, every single Guildheist that I have done (I did several trying to help my SCH along, since it was my second Job and thus, I had 0 quests to use!)...no one actually followed the mechanics.

I mean, for the most part, they completely ignored the stated mechanics and just brute forced their way through the encounter as quickly as possible.

Edgar · **10-29-2013, 08:49 PM**

Guys, guys. Hey.

I did not mean for this to turn into a full-blown debate. I just wanted some advice on how to smooth out the leveling process.

Look, I took the advice, partied up, and FATE grinded to 47, today, then went out and did every side-quest available at that level. By the time I was done, I was halfway to 48, and I'm currently logged off in a sanctuary to get that exp bonus tomorrow. I plan to FATE grind the rest of the way to 48, then do the sidequests, and FATE grind to 49. While I do the sidequests, I que up for the guildhests, because I have to deal with DPS waiting times, and I might as well keep myself busy while I wait. I plan to do all the guildhests regardless of how many I complete using this method by the time I reach 49, so if I hit that mark and I haven't gotten them all done once, I'll do a marathon run of each and every single one until they're all done.

So far, I've found the best FATEs are in Northern Thanalan, with Gorgimera being one of the really helpful ones. Unfortunately, I lack the AoE firepower to really take advantage of The Plea, being a Summoner and all, but I still manage to rake in some good xp every now and then from the whole thread.

Thank you all for the assistance. It was much appreciated.Â Moogle

Oh yeah, and I hate Ahrimans in this game. That paralyze BS...

Naunet · **10-30-2013, 11:38 AM**

(10-29-2013, 08:49 PM)EVGSovereign Wrote: I did not mean for this to turn into a full-blown debate. I just wanted some advice on how to smooth out the leveling process.

It's a forum! These things happen. xD

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