RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

Seriphyn · **12-23-2013, 06:27 PM**

(12-23-2013, 03:00 PM)ansemaru Wrote: From an out-of-universe perspective: Seeker gender politics are kind of messed up from what we've seen of them, and things are skewed in favor of dude Seekers. It's also what we're given to work with in terms of canon lore. The one in-game example of a Nunh is decidedly the leader of his tribe politically and culturally, and though his position isn't secure and has as much to do with respect from his followers as it does with his having defeated the previous Nunh, he's still living in what appears to be for all intents and purposes a society where the Nunh is the leader and the only ones who have a shot at being the leader are the Tias.

In-character, we've got complete freedom to either accept or challenge the norms of Seeker (and Keeper) society, and that'd probably be pretty interesting. There's a lot of room for conflict between the matriarchal Keepers and the patriarchal Seekers, considering most raised in the respective societies would have an opinion about which group is in the right in terms of how things are run. It'd be especially interesting for characters who come from a Seeker parent and a Keeper parent! For that matter, are there Miqo'te who defect from their tribe to live with the other one, rather than take to the city and abandon traditional societal norms? Seeker women who want a shot at authority and seek to join up with Keeper clans, or Keeper men who take up the 'Tia' name and try to challenge a Nunh so they can be in charge of their own tribe?

And like has been said, there is a lot of space to play Nunhs in various ways. U'odh is the one canon example, and he's very much a standard tribal patriarch figure. That's an option. If you feel inclined, you could play a Nunh who took his position because he wants to have kids, or because he wants an excuse to sleep around and flaunt it to others. You could play a Nunh who doesn't care at all for the breeding bit of his role, and just wants to improve things for his tribe by being a good leader- or even views siring children as a distasteful duty, rather than a benefit of being a Nunh. You could play a Nunh from a Seeker tribe where the women hold the real power, and the Nunh is just the fellow they decided was the best option to have kids with when the time comes. You can play it as creepy or non-creepy as you want to, in the end. It's just important to keep in mind that flagging yourself in such a position is going to invite opinions, and the way you RP a Nunh is going to invite opinions as well. If you play a womanizer or a scumbag Nunh, people will react like they typically do to figures of authority who are scumbags or womanizers. There are going to be people who are critical of the entire system on which Seeker society operates. It's not your job to convince them that Seeker society is awesome and great and they should love it, but you can try if you feel compelled. Conflict breeds interesting RP.

This is how you post.

Naunet · **12-23-2013, 07:03 PM**

(12-23-2013, 05:51 PM)Jomoru Wrote: You cna quote it all you want, it won't change the distinct power structures around that sexual dynamic.

Nor does it change what has been explicitly stated by the devs. You folk need to stop letting your own cultural biases color your understanding of a society that is clearly not based around monogamy. It's highly disingenuous to distinguish Keeper and Seeker cultures by labeling them matriarchal vs. patriarchal, especially when the former culture is being OOCly misunderstood due to looking at it through the lens of monogamy-bias and rather inaccurate and misapplied comparisons to lion tribes.

Jomoru · **12-23-2013, 07:50 PM**

(12-23-2013, 07:03 PM)Naunet Wrote:
(12-23-2013, 05:51 PM)Jomoru Wrote: You cna quote it all you want, it won't change the distinct power structures around that sexual dynamic.

Nor does it change what has been explicitly stated by the devs. You folk need to stop letting your own cultural biases color your understanding of a society that is clearly not based around monogamy. It's highly disingenuous to distinguish Keeper and Seeker cultures by labeling them matriarchal vs. patriarchal, especially when the former culture is being OOCly misunderstood due to looking at it through the lens of monogamy-bias and rather inaccurate and misapplied comparisons to lion tribes.

I am not talking about monogamy. I am talking about the real power of the position. Lack of holding official or even unofficial leadership of the grouping doesn't change the fact that he has power over determining the future generation.Â

This can easily lead to all sorts of horrific abuses. Saying "Well he doesn't officially lead the tribe" doesn't matter then.

MizoreYukii · **12-23-2013, 08:01 PM**

Eh......I didn't meant to start a debate of over the lore.....Anyways...

I understood that a Nunh sired children with many women, but I didn't know why they were required to. A simple "strong male chosen by the females to breed strong children" is better than a whack over the head for being new to the lore. This is why I asked in the first place. I wasn't going to talk about Miqo'tes and the lore ICly until I actually knew what made each tribe different, besides what was given at character creation. I didn't assume that they whored around, but everyone in chat and at RP sessions made it seem so. That doesn't mean I went as far as to believe it and act like it's the norm. Sad

And please, if you're so tired of it, take the effort to tell people through your FC's, LS's, and RP sessions, and don't take your frustration out on a person who even bothered to ask about the lore in the first place! I say a joke and suddenly it's like I claimed to steal everyone's cookies. Frustrated

Regardless, thank you for the input and the links. I can finally start my background and her reason for even existing now. Rolleyes

C'kayah Polaali · **12-23-2013, 08:30 PM**

I don't think anyone's taking whacks at you, Mizore. I think largely the issue is that Miqo'te obviously have a pretty distinct culture from the rest of Eorzea, but there is very little canon information about what that culture is outside of basic family structure.

FreelanceWizard · **12-23-2013, 08:38 PM**

(12-23-2013, 08:01 PM)MizoreYukii Wrote: I understood that a Nunh sired children with many women, but I didn't know why they were required to. A simple "strong male chosen by the females to breed strong children" (...)

You may want to be careful with that, though. Per the devs, the women of a territory have no (direct) say in the nunh of an existing territory. A tia becomes nunh by challenging the existing nunh; the females of the tribe aren't involved in that process (at least in the "normal" tribe structure described by the devs). Why and how that system works and to what extent women of a territory actually manipulate the process is a grey area in lore and one in which players can write what works best for their story. However, per the lore, the nunh isn't chosen by the females. He's chosen by losing a battle to a challenging tia.

By the by, there are two alternative ways to become nunh where the acceptance of women is directly relevant: acquiring new territory and branching off into a new tribe. Acquiring new territory is relatively common and involves a tia seizing an area of land. If he can hold it, then the tribe will make him nunh of that area and women will join him. That's the socially accepted way to become a nunh without challenging an existing one. Branching off into a new tribe is rare because, per the devs, women will rarely follow a nunh who doesn't "play by the rules," and at any rate, it makes all those involved outcasts.

To the rest of your post, miqo'te lore can be pretty polarizing OOC for a number of reasons (the large grey areas, the large number of miqo'te characters, the use of miqo'te culture by some players to attempt to force certain types of RP on people, etc.), so I don't think anyone was intending to hit you on the head for being new to it. It's just a topic that brings out some pretty strong points of view.

Michikyou · **12-23-2013, 08:39 PM**

(12-23-2013, 08:30 PM)Ckayah Tia Wrote: I don't think anyone's taking whacks at you, Mizore. I think largely the issue is that Miqo'te obviously have a pretty distinct culture from the rest of Eorzea, but there is very little canon information about what that culture is outside of basic family structure.

This is correct. I Just wanted people who are new, and possibly reading the thread that Nunhs are not pimps at all. They do not force any female to do as they wish. The structure of the soceity is all based off of favour. I get irritated because people cannot put aside their own personal cultural views to even accept the terms of FFXIV offical lore. So they slander it and insult those who do roleplay it as it was written.

yes - a lot is left in the dark so a lot of common courtesy head cannon needs to be involved but if we look at human socities especially those of the pacific islands we can find similar cultural structures. Its not an alien society - people need to stop treating it as something vile because it clearly isn't.

TLDR version:
Yo dawg, go take a Anthropology 101 paper! Human variety! cultural difference, Yo, peace G!

Edit:
Also, miqo'te would go extinct without this social structure as the ratio to males and females is VERY off. I think it is 1:15, if I counted the NPCs in forgotten springs correctly.

K'nahli · **12-23-2013, 09:02 PM**

(12-23-2013, 07:50 PM)Jomoru Wrote:
(12-23-2013, 07:03 PM)Naunet Wrote:
(12-23-2013, 05:51 PM)Jomoru Wrote: You cna quote it all you want, it won't change the distinct power structures around that sexual dynamic.

Nor does it change what has been explicitly stated by the devs. You folk need to stop letting your own cultural biases color your understanding of a society that is clearly not based around monogamy. It's highly disingenuous to distinguish Keeper and Seeker cultures by labeling them matriarchal vs. patriarchal, especially when the former culture is being OOCly misunderstood due to looking at it through the lens of monogamy-bias and rather inaccurate and misapplied comparisons to lion tribes.

I am not talking about monogamy. I am talking about the real power of the position. Lack of holding official or even unofficial leadership of the grouping doesn't change the fact that he has power over determining the future generation.Â

This can easily lead to all sorts of horrific abuses. Saying "Well he doesn't officially lead the tribe" doesn't matter then.

I don't understand your point. Assuming it was a situation where the tribe only had one nuhn(which wouldn't be entirely ideal I imagine), then even if he suddenly got it in his head that he can do whatever he wanted because he has an important role, it doesn't change the fact that he can just as easily be replaced by someone less erratic and selfish. He's doing himself no favours by testing his luck and behaving however he wants. I don't see why a nuhn would be exempt from disciplinary action executed by the tribe leaders. Last thing he'd want is to get himself exiled for even killed just because he was feeling a little arrogant.

MizoreYukii · **12-23-2013, 09:13 PM**

(12-23-2013, 08:39 PM)Naihir Wrote:
(12-23-2013, 08:30 PM)Ckayah Tia Wrote: I don't think anyone's taking whacks at you, Mizore. I think largely the issue is that Miqo'te obviously have a pretty distinct culture from the rest of Eorzea, but there is very little canon information about what that culture is outside of basic family structure.

This is correct. I Just wanted people who are new, and possibly reading the thread that Nunhs are not pimps at all. They do not force any female to do as they wish. The structure of the soceity is all based off of favour. I get irritated because people cannot put aside their own personal cultural views to even accept the terms of FFXIV offical lore. So they slander it and insult those who do roleplay it as it was written.

yes - a lot is left in the dark so a lot of common courtesy head cannon needs to be involved but if we look at human socities especially those of the pacific islands we can find similar cultural structures. Its not an alien society - people need to stop treating it as something vile because it clearly isn't.

TLDR version:
Yo dawg, go take a Anthropology 101 paper! Human variety! cultural difference, Yo, peace G!

I wasn't attempting to slander the culture. I know these cultures exist outside of modern society, and I never said it was vile. Like I said, I made a joke about it as everyone else has been believing they were pimps all along. I thought it was funny. *Shrugs*

Either way, if you want to correct this idea going around you might want to sticky a thread and talk to Gilgamesh players, as I've seen nothing but jokes (at least I hope they are...) on that server since I started playing. Anyone new doesn't automatically know of this forum's existence, and when everyone starts acting like Miqo'tes are having orgies all day, they get the wrong impression and won't learn the truth until later, like now. And as far as I can tell, there are far more Balmung players going on here than Gilgamesh (a lot of people didn't know of the ball yesterday). Soooo....yeah...Lack of communication going on here.... :/

Anyways, it's past us. And thanks FreelanceWizard for more insight on the Nunhs. I enjoy my character so far, and I really want to develop her properly for RP. Sadly, I don't know what to do with her name since we can't change names yet, and at the same time I don't want to get rid of it. I'm not sure what to do....I was originally thinking that her name could be this way do to her parents combining different factors, like the Mi being a broad representation of both types of Miqo'te.

Edit: Had the wrong person listed. xD

MizoreYukii · **12-23-2013, 09:20 PM**

(12-23-2013, 08:39 PM)Naihir Wrote: Edit:
Also, miqo'te would go extinct without this social structure as the ratio to males and females is VERY off. I think it is 1:15, if I counted the NPCs in forgotten springs correctly.

This I didn't know. How would they keep the gene pool from lacking diversity then? Unless they choose a male for whenever they need a new generation? That or I'm missing something. Sorry if this post is messed up, I can't figure out how to work the forums for the life of me. >_<

Edit: Reply if you guys want. I'm heading into game. Be back later ^-^

K'nahli · **12-23-2013, 09:52 PM**

Your joke was formed under a concept that many people believe - or at least want to believe. Any debates or criticisms weren't targeted at you but rather the idea that you jabbed at because its a controversial topic that has appeared many times before. A lot of people have these misguided conceptions of the race as a whole and for those of us who play miqo'te, it feels almost insulting. Implying that the Seeker culture is something created under an idea of promiscuity and with erotic intentions is just wrong on so many levels and it makes the whole culture out to be something so grossly shallow and primal when its not.

In any case, to reiterate, none of this was targeted at you. No-one meant any offence... same as you meant none toward Sunseekers either.

MizoreYukii · **12-23-2013, 10:10 PM**

(12-23-2013, 09:52 PM)Knahli Wrote: Your joke was formed under a concept that many people believe - or at least want to believe. Any debates or criticisms weren't targeted at you but rather the idea that you jabbed at because its a controversial topic that has appeared many times before. A lot of people have these misguided conceptions of the race as a whole and for those of us who play miqo'te, it feels almost insulting. Implying that the Seeker culture is something created under an idea of promiscuity and with erotic intentions is just wrong on so many levels and it makes the whole culture out to be something so grossly shallow and primal when its not.

In any case, to reiterate, none of this was targeted at you. No-one meant any offence... same as you meant none toward Sunseekers either.

I see it now, but it certainly felt that way. Blush

The purpose of my asking for lore is to avoid any misleading information by word of mouth, as well as a chance to finally create my character, as I've felt I've hit a wall with her until I could gather more information.

But I can see how my joke started the debate. I haven't been on the forums for months as I always forgot to get on, and I haven't been focusing on playing FF until now, but I bet if I had gotten on I would have known about the debate and either worded the joke better or avoid it altogether. >_< I just wanted to understand the race better since they don't provide much in game or on the main website. That, or I missed it somehow?

Either way, the lore and insight in this thread will help me create my character better. I'm new to RP and FF in general, so I want to make her the best way I can without looking like an idiot. Or insulting anyone. o_o

K'nahli · **12-23-2013, 10:18 PM**

(12-23-2013, 10:10 PM)MizoreYukii Wrote:
(12-23-2013, 09:52 PM)K Wrote: Your joke was formed under a concept that many people believe - or at least want to believe. Any debates or criticisms weren't targeted at you but rather the idea that you jabbed at because its a controversial topic that has appeared many times before. A lot of people have these misguided conceptions of the race as a whole and for those of us who play miqo'te, it feels almost insulting. Implying that the Seeker culture is something created under an idea of promiscuity and with erotic intentions is just wrong on so many levels and it makes the whole culture out to be something so grossly shallow and primal when its not.

In any case, to reiterate, none of this was targeted at you. No-one meant any offence... same as you meant none toward Sunseekers either.

I see it now, but it certainly felt that way. The purpose of my asking for lore is to avoid any misleading information by word of mouth, as well as a chance to finally create my character, as I've felt I've hit a wall with her until I could gather more information.

But I can see how my joke started the debate. I haven't been on the forums for months as I always forgot to get on, and I haven't been focusing on playing FF until now, but I bet if I had gotten on I would have known about the debate and either worded the joke better or avoid it altogether. >_< I just wanted to understand the race better since they don't provide much in game or on the main website. That, or I missed it somehow?

Either way, the lore and insight in this thread will help me create my character better. I'm new to RP and FF in general, so I want to make her the best way I can without looking like an idiot. Or insulting anyone. o_o

The debate would have happened either way, I'm sure. No need to worry yourself over it ^^ ;Â People are just afraid to let those opinions slip by for the previously mentioned reasons(I say opinion since it was unclear if you were joking... as is the case with sensitive topics, ahah).

In any case, there's no glorified lore that you must adhere to. You don't need to adhere to any for that matter. If you choose a Seeker/Keeper name though then just be sure to find some connection as to why your character followed tribal naming conventions and you're sorted. Anything else is totally up to you.

MizoreYukii · **12-23-2013, 10:23 PM**

(12-23-2013, 10:18 PM)Knahli Wrote:
(12-23-2013, 10:10 PM)MizoreYukii Wrote:
(12-23-2013, 09:52 PM)K Wrote: Your joke was formed under a concept that many people believe - or at least want to believe. Any debates or criticisms weren't targeted at you but rather the idea that you jabbed at because its a controversial topic that has appeared many times before. A lot of people have these misguided conceptions of the race as a whole and for those of us who play miqo'te, it feels almost insulting. Implying that the Seeker culture is something created under an idea of promiscuity and with erotic intentions is just wrong on so many levels and it makes the whole culture out to be something so grossly shallow and primal when its not.

In any case, to reiterate, none of this was targeted at you. No-one meant any offence... same as you meant none toward Sunseekers either.

I see it now, but it certainly felt that way. The purpose of my asking for lore is to avoid any misleading information by word of mouth, as well as a chance to finally create my character, as I've felt I've hit a wall with her until I could gather more information.

But I can see how my joke started the debate. I haven't been on the forums for months as I always forgot to get on, and I haven't been focusing on playing FF until now, but I bet if I had gotten on I would have known about the debate and either worded the joke better or avoid it altogether. >_< I just wanted to understand the race better since they don't provide much in game or on the main website. That, or I missed it somehow?

Either way, the lore and insight in this thread will help me create my character better. I'm new to RP and FF in general, so I want to make her the best way I can without looking like an idiot. Or insulting anyone. o_o

The debate would have happened either way, I'm sure. No need to worry yourself over it ^^ ;Â People are just afraid to let those opinions slip by for the previously mentioned reasons(I say opinion since it was unclear if you were joking... as is the case with sensitive topics, ahah).

In any case, there's no glorified lore that you must adhere to. You don't need to adhere to any for that matter. If you choose a Seeker/Keeper name though then just be sure to find some connection as to why your character followed tribal naming conventions and you're sorted. Anything else is totally up to you.

Most likely....xD And it wasn't an opinion. I knew I didn't word what I said properly, but I thought it didn't matter. But it most certainly was a joke at the thought of the cats being this way, as people constantly talk about it as if it's true. I never knew what to believe, so went with the flow, but I did think it was slightly amusing whenever it was brought up.

Alright, thanks for the reply! I'll surely think of something for her name, eventually at least.

Alright, now I head to game. Thankies everyone. o3o

K'nahli · **12-23-2013, 10:51 PM**

(12-23-2013, 10:23 PM)MizoreYukii Wrote: And it wasn't an opinion. I knew I didn't word what I said properly, but I thought it didn't matter.

I know it wasn't ;;Â People were just staying on the safe side so that in case you actually were serious, that mindset wasn't encouraged, haha.

Okay I really must run to sleep now..

*collapses*

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