Thanks guys for clearing that up for me. I can see really most of us have the same basic idea really.
Cast: If you feel I've posted too much I'll stop for awhile after this post.
When you guys mention a fear its a good measure of if the fear is valid or not to see if that sort of thing has happened in a community similiar to what you want to try out. I'm just asking you guys to consider examples of things more similiar. I see a good chunk of folks who seem to think that just because FF is part of the name of this new game their experience will be exactly the same as their server on FFXI. At the most, in FFXI, I think most of us only had maybe 3 other RP Guilds at any given time that lasted any length of time and hardly had anything to do with eachother so comparing what we want to do here, which my understanding is we want more than 3 Guilds all working together, isn't that effective.
I'm concerened that is seems the over-all feeling of many here seem to feel that its impossible for the RPC to succeed. People will just be running around god-modding and being immature. You yourself Cast have said in more than one place that the coalition won't last a year which is a terrible mind-set to have going into a project like this.
To me comparing the FFXI community to a large coalition is like comparing apples to oranges. I have done some cross-guild things on FFXI just as it seems some of you have, but in no way do I think that a few isolated insisdences is a good measuring stick to construct a charter for a large community. Comparing a community like Starsider to what the goal of the RPC has is like comparing a mandarin orange to a florida orange. I'm just concerned that some people seem unwilling to accept anything other than their own experience in one server on one game while discrediting statements made regarding other games (SWG and WOW) that have had successful much larger communites. I'm seeing remarks to the effect that "well that group was too lenient for the people I know will be playing FFXIV since only people from FFXI will be there forming our community and they are all immature god-modders". Don't expect this since it is a different game and some people that play FFXI may not like or play it. Some people from that WOW community or Starsider could even try it so constructing a community that only FFXI Rpers would like is equally bad.
Starsider was a united community of upwards of 15 guilds going all at once plus some freelancers with no guild. Looking at what they've implemented that has worked, as well as that EQ group and Thraydon's experience in WOW, and seeing that a large group is able to deal with the problems that can and will happen without needing some huge list of rules proves a large and healthly RPC is possible. Everyone here seems convinced the RPC will be small or will fall apart. SWG and WOW are both very different communities but Thraydon has expressed some of the exact same expereinces I have. There are only probably 70-100 Rpers in SWG so its not a big and large group as I think you all believe and I don't know how many are in WOW. If two entirely different games have had a similiar experience then I think its safe to view those similairties as what is average for a large RP Community.
I'm not expecting the RPC to be just like Starsider I'm just relating information that I feel is valid for consideration. I'm also not expecting RPC to be just like FFXI. Like you said it will be its own community. Everyone should keep that in mind and not dwell on FFXI so much.
On fears that too much freedom gives free-reign to god-moders:
I'm with you on over the top things but I have RPed with people like that, and despite the weird issue (let's say blue skin) they were nice people, surprisingly mature, and I had fun. There were those people on Starsider but people were mature enough to just not RP with people who do things we don't like.
There might be a place here for those people, I know on Starsider there were 2 guilds that were way out there as far as the community was concerned, and they often felt the rest of us were being "elistist" but we still managed to get along. They came to the events but didn't do anything there they knew would prevent others from enjoying it.
Though I personally don't generally like those things if we try to make standards for a community that exclude certain characters we would be taking a bad step for creating a community with a good reputation that others want to join. Those preferences should be left to personal preferences "on a citizens type post" or rules for a private guild.
I did "Jedi RP" while on Starsider that had a bad name because of a few god-modders etc and canon Nazi feeling even a small group hiding wasn't time appropriate. Those people avoided us, or in many cases we were so good at hiding, had no idea we were a Lightside Guild. My point in relating this is just because some idiots try to justify using an excuse to god-mod or Mary Sue don't think the majority of people will. In my experience these people slit their own throats and leave of their own free will when they alienate everyone else by their actions so there is no need to try and keep them out.
I think this would be a good idea, and way to summarize what we've all talked about and the different points of view we can bring to the table for consideration.
I also think this is the intelligent way to go. Making a bunch of rules because of issues that we fear might happen based on experience up front is a bit like the woman whose teenage daughter ran away from home so she chained her other two children to their beds in their rooms. I remember in the news when the woman was asked why she said she didn't want the other kids running away like the first one. Please lets not imprison the RPC folks because of a few jerks we've met in the past.
The whole reason for setting standards and having a body that regularly meets is so that adjustments can be made to meet the needs of the RPC going forward. Start out expecting the best and ammend the rules based on actual real happenings not feared possible future happenings. Start with some basic things and only add other things if needed.
Cast: If you feel I've posted too much I'll stop for awhile after this post.
Quote:Regarding the past: While I think everyone has forgiven past events (I've spoken with many privately to ensure as much), forgetting it is another thing. And we shouldn't forget. When I bring up past events as examples, I do so because history tends to repeat itself, even if the people involved are different. We should use our past experiences to learn and grow rather than simply discard them.
When you guys mention a fear its a good measure of if the fear is valid or not to see if that sort of thing has happened in a community similiar to what you want to try out. I'm just asking you guys to consider examples of things more similiar. I see a good chunk of folks who seem to think that just because FF is part of the name of this new game their experience will be exactly the same as their server on FFXI. At the most, in FFXI, I think most of us only had maybe 3 other RP Guilds at any given time that lasted any length of time and hardly had anything to do with eachother so comparing what we want to do here, which my understanding is we want more than 3 Guilds all working together, isn't that effective.
I'm concerened that is seems the over-all feeling of many here seem to feel that its impossible for the RPC to succeed. People will just be running around god-modding and being immature. You yourself Cast have said in more than one place that the coalition won't last a year which is a terrible mind-set to have going into a project like this.
Quote:I also feel I should caution everyone about using other RP coalitions to set our foundation. While it's good to look to them as models, it's ultimately imperative that we forge our own individual identity. It's sort of like comparing the US to the UK. While we have the same language and similiar cultural trends, the populations have very different needs and priorities.
To me comparing the FFXI community to a large coalition is like comparing apples to oranges. I have done some cross-guild things on FFXI just as it seems some of you have, but in no way do I think that a few isolated insisdences is a good measuring stick to construct a charter for a large community. Comparing a community like Starsider to what the goal of the RPC has is like comparing a mandarin orange to a florida orange. I'm just concerned that some people seem unwilling to accept anything other than their own experience in one server on one game while discrediting statements made regarding other games (SWG and WOW) that have had successful much larger communites. I'm seeing remarks to the effect that "well that group was too lenient for the people I know will be playing FFXIV since only people from FFXI will be there forming our community and they are all immature god-modders". Don't expect this since it is a different game and some people that play FFXI may not like or play it. Some people from that WOW community or Starsider could even try it so constructing a community that only FFXI Rpers would like is equally bad.
Starsider was a united community of upwards of 15 guilds going all at once plus some freelancers with no guild. Looking at what they've implemented that has worked, as well as that EQ group and Thraydon's experience in WOW, and seeing that a large group is able to deal with the problems that can and will happen without needing some huge list of rules proves a large and healthly RPC is possible. Everyone here seems convinced the RPC will be small or will fall apart. SWG and WOW are both very different communities but Thraydon has expressed some of the exact same expereinces I have. There are only probably 70-100 Rpers in SWG so its not a big and large group as I think you all believe and I don't know how many are in WOW. If two entirely different games have had a similiar experience then I think its safe to view those similairties as what is average for a large RP Community.
I'm not expecting the RPC to be just like Starsider I'm just relating information that I feel is valid for consideration. I'm also not expecting RPC to be just like FFXI. Like you said it will be its own community. Everyone should keep that in mind and not dwell on FFXI so much.
On fears that too much freedom gives free-reign to god-moders:
I'm with you on over the top things but I have RPed with people like that, and despite the weird issue (let's say blue skin) they were nice people, surprisingly mature, and I had fun. There were those people on Starsider but people were mature enough to just not RP with people who do things we don't like.
There might be a place here for those people, I know on Starsider there were 2 guilds that were way out there as far as the community was concerned, and they often felt the rest of us were being "elistist" but we still managed to get along. They came to the events but didn't do anything there they knew would prevent others from enjoying it.
Though I personally don't generally like those things if we try to make standards for a community that exclude certain characters we would be taking a bad step for creating a community with a good reputation that others want to join. Those preferences should be left to personal preferences "on a citizens type post" or rules for a private guild.
I did "Jedi RP" while on Starsider that had a bad name because of a few god-modders etc and canon Nazi feeling even a small group hiding wasn't time appropriate. Those people avoided us, or in many cases we were so good at hiding, had no idea we were a Lightside Guild. My point in relating this is just because some idiots try to justify using an excuse to god-mod or Mary Sue don't think the majority of people will. In my experience these people slit their own throats and leave of their own free will when they alienate everyone else by their actions so there is no need to try and keep them out.
Quote:I might edit my post in the 'About Me' area to reflect these opinions, or might it be a good idea to create a thread to outline what we want to see and what we do not want to see? I can see how this might closely border recruitment, but maybe when it is closer to the time to begin segmenting off such a thread would be helpful for those intending to be leaders. Just a thought!
I think this would be a good idea, and way to summarize what we've all talked about and the different points of view we can bring to the table for consideration.
Quote:I think starting off with very little is the way to go. The people who will be the maintenance crew here need jobs too, which would be to add certain rules when necessary. Starting with a clean slate in this new game and adapting as problems arise. It's easier to add regulations little by little as needed than to start with a whole bunch assuming that they will be useful. If all is well and the community runs as smooth as some people predict, then nothing will be added and everyone wins.
Personally I am one of those that think we will need moderate regulation in place. Using my limited knowledge of political science, a good example would be the US. Started with independent states and very weak federal government, but as history took it's course turned out that we needed stronger federal laws to make all the states, nay the Union, run better.
I also think this is the intelligent way to go. Making a bunch of rules because of issues that we fear might happen based on experience up front is a bit like the woman whose teenage daughter ran away from home so she chained her other two children to their beds in their rooms. I remember in the news when the woman was asked why she said she didn't want the other kids running away like the first one. Please lets not imprison the RPC folks because of a few jerks we've met in the past.
The whole reason for setting standards and having a body that regularly meets is so that adjustments can be made to meet the needs of the RPC going forward. Start out expecting the best and ammend the rules based on actual real happenings not feared possible future happenings. Start with some basic things and only add other things if needed.
![[Image: 33104_48d6215903dff562.png]](http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-ffxiv/33104_48d6215903dff562.png)
