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Selsix · **08-07-2013, 06:56 PM**

(08-07-2013, 11:12 AM)Kaln Wrote: Selsix put it in the best way. She described the Balmung server as a bus that may or may not stop to pick her up.

You know what that says to me? That she sees us a server she can't fit in to. That we're full, that we don't want to pick her up and welcome her in.

WTF have we been saying? The -exact opposite- of that. We want to pick her up. All the RPers. Everywhere. We want to pick them all up, and welcome them in.

Uhm, I'm a guy bro. Notice the male Elezen avatar.Â Tongue

(08-07-2013, 05:16 AM)Ashren Snow Wrote:
(08-07-2013, 05:00 AM)Selsix Wrote: That put it in perspective for you?
So what you're saying is that you see Balmung as a speeding bus that won't stop for anyone and will mow you down without a second thought if you got in its way. That does give perspective.

Also

Resent, Noun:Â Bitter indignation at having been treated unfairly.

Indignation, Noun:Â Anger or annoyance provoked by what is perceived as unfair treatment.

Both of these kinda sound pretty spot on. Resentment is an ugly word, I know, but it doesn't make it any less accurate for this argument.

You completely miss the point. The "bus mowing you down" is a metaphor for the chance that a legacy realm could completely screw you over. It might not, but the chance that it CAN is definitely there. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool. Granted, both options have risks associated. But while both present potentially toxic communities; only one exhibits a danger of broken game mechanics. Given that evidence? I'm going to take my chances with Gilgamesh.

As for "Resent". Your own definition proves my point. "Bitter". Nobody is bitter sir. Well, at least I'm not. It's just a smart move in my eyes.

Fiona Swift · **08-07-2013, 07:45 PM**

I'm so confused by all of this. Balmung and Gilgamesh communities are equal in my book.

from an RP / Lore perspective it makes sense as well if you think about it.

You have those which fall into the old shifted 5 years into the future (ARR) and those which are brand new as the era of Adventurers starts to thrive... Balmung , Gilgamesh.

Based on Lore, new toons should role on Balmung to stick with the lore... but at the same time said concept only is good for about 2-3months and you'll have 50's everywhere.

In short... Both servers are fine. Work as a community here people. You can roll on "both" servers. The thing is we all have a difference of opinion. What should be going on is we all respect one another's opinions and move on. Instead we're squabbling over it in spots and it is rather embarrassing.

Balmung is Legacy. Established community with established LinkShells , Free Companies, etc. It is open to all to join and I am quite certain the Balmung community would love to see new players. However I see lots of new players branding Legacy servers as unfair advantages and branding Legacy players.

On the flipside you have Gilgamesh... a new server with fresh opportunities. Who knows how it will turn out but people will be able to establish their own thing on the server. New linkshells, new friends etc.. Some people have legit concerns about Legacy servers and might not want to give it the 2-4 months needed to catch up to everyone else.

My issue with all this is why people have this "all or nothing" attitude. Why is it.. Balmung OR Gilgamesh. As many have pointed out, including myself, you can make characters on up to 8 servers. Ontop of that, so what people want to go to A instead of B. It isn't like they have said "I'm going to A and never showing my face here ever again?" Be a community. Think of it as a guild that has so many members it has to make two guilds.

The guild fills up...The guild leader often takes the 2nd in command and has them make their own guild and you end up with two guilds. People join one or the other... You share the same webpage, same info, but you have two separate banks, two separate raid rotation groups etc. Be a community... we are all a team here.

Now everyone smile and watch the cute baby-bunny!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SqBdS0XkV4

Zyrusticae · **08-07-2013, 07:49 PM**

(08-07-2013, 02:04 PM)Kylin Wrote: I'd rather avoid locking this thread. So instead, I'll encourage everyone to just stop posting. Hopefully that request will be respected. The only ones who should be posting on this thread any longer should be new people who may have questions that need clarified. The rest of you old folks are just chasing your tails endlessly with no hope of persuading the other party. So just...stop? Stop trying to get the last word in, all of you.

I take serious issue with this.

If people want to discuss it, let them discuss it! What harm does it do? It doesn't matter if no one gets anywhere, trying to squelch the discussion is about as productive as trying to get people to stop rolling on Gilgamesh. The only way you could really stop it from happening is to lock every thread on the matter as soon as they pop up, but that's incredibly counter-productive and produces a highly oppressive atmosphere.

(08-07-2013, 06:56 PM)Selsix Wrote: You completely miss the point. The "bus mowing you down" is a metaphor for the chance that a legacy realm could completely screw you over. It might not, but the chance that it CAN is definitely there. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool. Granted, both options have risks associated. But while both present potentially toxic communities; only one exhibits a danger of broken game mechanics. Given that evidence? I'm going to take my chances with Gilgamesh.

BS. There is absolutely no risk of of "broken game mechanics" whatsoever on a Legacy server. The only difference is that there are some people who are already ahead of the game, but judging from the "How far did you get?" poll a considerable majority of Legacy players never made it past level 30 with one character.

More to the point, I consider splitting the community to be THE WORST POSSIBLE SIN. There is nothing that justifies splitting the community. Nothing. Absolutely nothing! You can't do it. You just can't do it. There's literally no possible answer that would convince me that "yes, it's okay that people are splitting up an already niche and incredibly tiny community". Every single excuse - and they are excuses - that's been stated here and elsewhere on these forums has been far, FAR from justifying this ridiculous divide.

Right now, we number maybe in the hundreds, with maybe 3/4 going to Balmung and 1/4 going to Gilgamesh. I mean, that's bloody terrible. There are already so few of us to begin with, why do we need to be split up on something so incredibly trivial? The worst part is that there will inevitably be dozens of players who just burn out over time and that leaves us with a scant few dozen active players by this time next year. I've seen this happen so many times in so many MMOs that I'm absolutely astonished that this is even an issue. Why take the risk? Why? No, don't answer that, you already know I won't accept any of your answers.

Ugh, I can't even describe how angry all of this makes me. Yes, it's completely trivial, but it's BECAUSE it's so trivial that it makes me so angry. It really, really wouldn't be that difficult to just roll on a single server, but no, some folks have to take it upon themselves to be... different. To spite everyone else, just because they can. I'm sorry, but I cannot respect that. If you ever decide to reroll on Balmung, you are all welcome to do so (I won't be nearly as angry then because, y'know, I'll just be playing the game), but don't expect any sympathy from me whatsoever if things go south.

Selsix · **08-07-2013, 07:58 PM**

(08-07-2013, 07:49 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote:
(08-07-2013, 06:56 PM)Selsix Wrote: You completely miss the point. The "bus mowing you down" is a metaphor for the chance that a legacy realm could completely screw you over. It might not, but the chance that it CAN is definitely there. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool. Granted, both options have risks associated. But while both present potentially toxic communities; only one exhibits a danger of broken game mechanics. Given that evidence? I'm going to take my chances with Gilgamesh.
BS. There is absolutely no risk of of "broken game mechanics" whatsoever on a Legacy server. The only difference is that there are some people who are already ahead of the game, but judging from the "How far did you get?" poll a considerable majority of Legacy players never made it past level 30 with one character.

More to the point, I consider splitting the community to be THE WORST POSSIBLE SIN. There is nothing that justifies splitting the community. Nothing. Absolutely nothing! You can't do it. You just can't do it. There's literally no possible answer that would convince me that "yes, it's okay that people are splitting up an already niche and incredibly tiny community". Every single excuse - and they are excuses - that's been stated here and elsewhere on these forums has been far, FAR from justifying this ridiculous divide.

Right now, we number maybe in the hundreds, with maybe 3/4 going to Balmung and 1/4 going to Gilgamesh. I mean, that's bloody terrible. There are already so few of us to begin with, why do we need to be split up on something so incredibly trivial? The worst part is that there will inevitably be dozens of players who just burn out over time and that leaves us with a scant few dozen active players by this time next year. I've seen this happen so many times in so many MMOs that I'm absolutely astonished that this is even an issue. Why take the risk? Why? No, don't answer that, you already know I won't accept any of your answers.

Ugh, I can't even describe how angry all of this makes me. Yes, it's completely trivial, but it's BECAUSE it's so trivial that it makes me so angry. It really, really wouldn't be that difficult to just roll on a single server, but no, some folks have to take it upon themselves to be... different. To spite everyone else, just because they can. I'm sorry, but I cannot respect that. If you ever decide to reroll on Balmung, you are all welcome to do so (I won't be nearly as angry then because, y'know, I'll just be playing the game), but don't expect any sympathy from me whatsoever if things go south.

First of all, there are possible problems. People have already discussed possible economic issues with legacy players keeping their gear and cash. Not to mention the massive headstart you have on every other new player by having leveled up characters.

Secondly, there's no "splitting the community". A lot of people going to Gilgamesh are NEW players. Your community isn't being "split". Just new people are going to a new realm.

Also, it's not trivial at all. At least not to us. You argue "why can't everyone roll on Balmung?" And the short answer is because Balmung has high level pre-geared characters. This is a NEW game. You can't get angry at some people for wanting a FRESH server on a NEW game.

Lastly, nobody is doing this to "spite" Legacy players. Or at the very least I'm not. Every single time I explain this I'm getting told I HATE legacy players, or that I resent them, or am bitter towards them, or wish to spite them. That's bull. I don't HATE you. I wish I could play WITH you. But fact of the matter is, I see the head start all Legacy players have in the economy? Along with their pre-leveled characters? Forgive me if I want a free shot in a new game. But I think that that is a perfectly legitimate excuse, and I am sure plenty of people agree with me.

But seriously, just calm down. Getting upset won't fix anything. This is going to happen whether you like it or not, so learn to be okay with it or simply ignore it. Any other option is only going to drive you mad.

shotgunbadger · **08-07-2013, 08:01 PM**

I'm really confused how a legacy server can 'screw you over'. Like, they don't run on different rules, if something is broken there Gilgamesh will be broken too...

Edit: No it is pretty much spite, there's literally no reason to do it other than 'I don't want to share a server with those types', there's literally no way a legacy player can affect us beyond their mere presence somehow being enough to ruin the game for you.

Selsix · **08-07-2013, 08:06 PM**

(08-07-2013, 08:01 PM)shotgunbadger Wrote: I'm really confused how a legacy server can 'screw you over'. Like, they don't run on different rules, if something is broken there Gilgamesh will be broken too...

Edit: No it is pretty much spite, there's literally no reason to do it other than 'I don't want to share a server with those types', there's literally no way a legacy player can affect us beyond their mere presence somehow being enough to ruin the game for you.

Again. They can indeed affect my play experience. Legacy players keeping their items and gil can ruin the economy in a fresh new game.

Their levels can also ruin my experience. Even if I level as FAST as I possibly can, there will still be plenty of people who started at 50 and already are miles ahead of me in terms of end game progression and gear. Sorry, but I'd like to be at the front lines. Not catching up.

I also fail to see how any of this is spite. I'm not doing it to MAKE you feel bad. I'm doing it to give myself a shot. How is that spite?

Spite -Â aÂ malicious,Â usuallyÂ petty,Â desireÂ toÂ harm,Â annoy,Â frustrate,Â orÂ humiliateÂ anotherÂ person;Â bitter,Â illÂ will; malice.

That sounds like NOTHING I am trying to accomplish. So please stop throwing words like that around.

Desmond Aryll · **08-07-2013, 08:10 PM**

It's not about ruining the game. It's just a preference. Beating the dead horse about it won't make anyone reconsider. It'll do the opposite in fact. People are gonna do what they're gonna do. A deeper reason for it isn't really necessary.

Just live and let live, ya'know?

Balmung's population is growing without a shadow of a doubt. There will be more people there than ever. It just won't be all the people. Just leave it at that.

shotgunbadger · **08-07-2013, 08:10 PM**

Well I guess I just really hope you're constantly first to do everything on Gilgamesh if the mere idea of not being 'at the front' ruins your game.

As for economy...that's...not how it works? Like I don't know what to say to that.

And yea this stuff is kinda spiteful in places. Like that crap with the self appointed leader of the Gil RPers telling people on Reddit all about the RP on Gilgamesh and not mentioning us too, if this whole thing is about letting people decide why does someone else have to run behind him also hocking the other server?

Ashren Dotharl · **08-07-2013, 08:12 PM**

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn is not a fresh new game, it is a three year old game being rebranded and resold with a different name. The fact that our servers and characters from 1.0 still exists proves this, the fact that the core mechanics have only barely changed also shows this. They changed the UI, tweaked the mechanics to make them enjoyable, but it's not a brand new game, it's just an expansion.

This is no different than when World of Warcraft came out with the Cataclysm expansion to draw in more new subscribers.

Arelian · **08-07-2013, 08:12 PM**

You guys are really working yourself into a tizzy over something as trivial as server choice.

Stop gettin' mad at vidya games, and just enjoy the fact that the admins here areÂ allowing something like the discussion/split to even occur. They could have excused themselves from the situation entirely by not advocating for Gilgamesh being the next big server.

Who cares if someone doesn't want to roll on a legacy server or if someone does? We're playing with so many hypotheticals that don't even matter.

And again, it's a video game. It's roleplaying. Calm down. Deep breaths.Â

Yes, I've expressed my own frustration at the community being split but this is disgustingÂ behavior coming from everybody. There's no discussion to be had. Nothing anyone can say is going to sway anyone's feelings on the matter, and if anything the arguments and "discussion" are just going to prove the stereotype of roleplayers being overdramatic, hormone-driven teenagers with power-fantasies right. People are resorting to hyperbole, personal attacks, and examples that aren't even relevant to try and drive... what point home again?

That Gilgamesh hates Legacy players? That Balmung won't be accepting to new folks? None of this is true, and even if it was. What's gained from spewing it everywhere? Oh. It divides the community further and drives people away from bothÂ communities.Â

Let's stop spreading hateful language and all enjoy the game we're going to be given shortly.

Choices are good.

Wouldn't you rather we have nice discussions about the lore of the game or things we're looking forward to? Especially for the newer folks that are trying to figure things out and maybe unsure if they even want to roleplay to begin with. Nothing says, "Oh boy! I really want to be a part of thatÂ community!" like watching the two bicker and spit at each other simply because they can.

Let's all just get along. It's easier that way. I promise.

Selsix · **08-07-2013, 08:15 PM**

(08-07-2013, 08:10 PM)shotgunbadger Wrote: Well I guess I just really hope you're constantly first to do everything on Gilgamesh if the mere idea of not being 'at the front' ruins your game.

As for economy...that's...not how it works? Like I don't know what to say to that.

And yea this stuff is kinda spiteful in places. Like that crap with the self appointed leader of the Gil RPers telling people on Reddit all about the RP on Gilgamesh and not mentioning us too, if this whole thing is about letting people decide why does someone else have to run behind him also hocking the other server?

First off, I didn't say I wanted to be the FIRST at everything, I said I want to be on the front lines. That means I want to be doing actual progression, not catching up to people who had weeks of progress ahead of me. That is a fair request.

Second, yes, that is how it works. Legacy players will start off with a lot of items and money. Sure, they worked for them in the past. But because of this? They get to hold all the new players by the balls. Are all of you doing this? No. Will it happen? Very likely.

And finally, no, it is not spiteful. Two or three people's actions does NOT account for all of us. I was not part of that, most of us weren't. You said it yourself, he's "self-appointed". We did not elect this man, I do not stand behind all of his choices. None of us do. If you want a fair shake? I advise you take that up with him. But don't pin that on the rest of us. 'Kay thanks.

Annaveil · **08-07-2013, 08:17 PM**

Personally, I think this thread should've been locked a couple pages back. It's spiraling down into shit slinging and finger pointing (with a little bit of this in between) because, as Sylas said, there's no discussion here. This thread may have started off with noble intentions, but nothing from here on out is going to help new players decide which server to go to.

All this is doing is acting as a public soapbox for people to voice their frustrations. Which, while that's an okay thing...I think this thread has sort of outlived its purpose.

Desmond Aryll · **08-07-2013, 08:18 PM**

(08-07-2013, 08:12 PM)Sylas Wrote: Let's stop spreading hateful language and all enjoy the game we're going to be given shortly.

Choices are good.

Here, here. Seconded. Well said, Sylas.

shotgunbadger · **08-07-2013, 08:18 PM**

I really have no idea how the legacy players can 'have us by the balls' though. Can you actually explain that and why it's a certainty?

Selsix · **08-07-2013, 08:20 PM**

(08-07-2013, 08:12 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote: Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn is not a fresh new game, it is a three year old game being rebranded and resold with a different name. The fact that our servers and characters from 1.0 still exists proves this, the fact that the core mechanics have only barely changed also shows this. They changed the UI, tweaked the mechanics to make them enjoyable, but it's not a brand new game, it's just an expansion.

This is no different than when World of Warcraft came out with the Cataclysm expansion to draw in more new subscribers.

I hate to break it to you, but it is pretty much a new game. Cataclysm was an expansion, it simply added content and re-vamped some old geography.

A Realm Reborn is an entire re-design of the game's interface, graphics engine, environment, questing, battle system, features, and endgame content.

It may not be a BRAND new game. But it's as close as you can possibly get. And if I'm allowed to play on a server without any pre-leveled characters on it in this new world? I'm going to.

(08-07-2013, 08:18 PM)shotgunbadger Wrote: I really have no idea how the legacy players can 'have us by the balls' though. Can you actually explain that and why it's a certainty?

Sure can.

Scenario 1: Say a legacy player has an item and wants to sell it. Now this item isn't for sale and since he's a Legacy player, and he has plenty of cash left over from 1.0. He can now charge whatever he'd like for this item before an actual economy is re-established simply because there are no other ones for sale.

Scenario 2: Now let's say a non-legacy player puts up some crafting materials for sale. A legacy player sees they are fairly cheap, because again, there is no real economy in place yet. So he buys all of them, which sure might give the new player some profit. But what can he do then? Re-sell them all for MUCH more. Thus causing a problem. This particular issue happens even late game, but the key difference is late game there is an economy in place, so it has marginal success due to market influx.

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