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ChewableMorphine · **04-12-2015, 09:18 PM**

Flynt's just a two-handed Barett Wallace + mudras. I think that's fair game.

Erik Mynhier · **04-12-2015, 09:31 PM**

(04-12-2015, 08:50 PM)Chris Ganale Wrote: Well, the concept intrigued me because one of the biggest problems I'm having with tech'ing out Chao the way she's supposed to be is that in other settings, she relied heavily on having magitek hammerspace which there's like, precisely zero precedent for in the lore. So your ring interests me greatly, and she might have to find reason to pay a visit.

(Read: I need to create a reason for her to go back to Ul'dah now >< )

Anytime, Erik travels alot too outside of Ul'dah, so I can find you also.

Chris Ganale · **04-12-2015, 09:36 PM**

Chao's been lurking in the Limsa area as of late at or around Vylbrand Academy. We'll work something out, should stop spamming unrelated stuff in this thread. D=

Kellach Woods · **04-13-2015, 08:09 AM**

I don't think I've ever used aether boosts for anything fighting related.

I've pulled out SOME bullshit however in non-fighting related activities.

Harmonixer · **04-13-2015, 12:51 PM**

Originally I was going to talk about some example of power, but thinking it over as I type makes me want to say this instead:

It's prolly more important to apply 'power' to your character that can be adjusted and throttled to RP properly. Balance is of course very difficult to work of course, but when I find myself wanting to place things that I know would be somewhat frowned upon without details in my RP, I try to make it's shortcomings readily apparent first.

This comes from me simply over-analyzing everything I do for myself. It has it's detriments but so far I've been mildly successful with putting things into motion by being subtle and not slamming it into the face of my partners. I try not to just list something as an ability or a power, I get specifics and try to string them together so that they make sense and can be understood.

Okay, so I will make an example actually.

Think of shields. It's easy to just have 'a powerful tower shield that can take x amount of blows and repel magic'. But the stuff I think about, is the arm and body the shield is protecting. Can it withstand the force? Magical or otherwise? It's the whole bulletproof vest thing in movies, you know what I'm talking about.

Other things to remember too, in rl we have plenty of feats that are considered impossible that few people in the world can do with ease. Since this is a fantasy (stop laughing) I don't see the problem of letting it happen a little more than usual. So yeah, kick a pillar because you've got five stacks of 'holyfuckimreallyunhappy'. It wouldn't happen just any day, the situation seemed to call for it.

I don't want to play a character that is in a position to fight the things we come across and not be able to actually stand up to it. Seems like a bad idea to me. How can we protect people, much less fight a war without somewhat super human ability?

Just don't go ham with mouth beams or some chit. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Zyrusticae · **04-13-2015, 01:42 PM**

Well, I think this should go without saying, but I treat the various classes and jobs as gameplay concessions and the like rather than hard-and-fast rules for how people handle martial professions in Eorzea. For example, there's no reason in-universe someone can't freely switch between a spear, a bow, and daggers in combat aside from the obvious problem of where you put it all. By the same token, armor classes are there more for gameplay reasons than anything else (yes, even the glamour system being restricted is there to encourage you to level up more classes so you can wear the stuff). I believe it is entirely fair for someone to mix and match in ways that the game doesn't allow, with the caveat that few things can be considered straight upgrades and most combinations have some kind of downside (especially if you move too far into jack-of-all-trades territory).

All that said is just to drive home the point that I believe players should be free to come up with unique ways to manipulate aether. With the variety of classes present in the game, they basically give players free reign to imagine anything is possible. Just make sure you
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THAT SAID, obviously "common sense" prevails here. No one should be trying to be playing at Louisoux power levels, unless it's an extremely situational, highly temporary power boost at the climax of an arc or somesuch. If I were to make a comparison, Final Fantasy heroes are pretty much at the level of legendary heroes of old, rather than demigods. Only the Primals can move towards the latter (though they could arguably be considered actual gods, despite their power being limited compared to what gods are usually depicted as being capable of). Superhuman feats should be the norm for player characters - with the assumption that player characters are usually the extraordinary individuals of the realm, and NOT ordinary people.

To elaborate, my 'ground truth', as it were, is that any player character is supposed to be an extraordinary individual in their own right, and that the NPCs that populate the world are supposed to be the more ordinary ones (obvious big players aside). The only problem with this is when the world is very small and it feels like PCs outnumber the NPCs 10:1, which obviously is not supposed to be the case in-universe. I consider that more of a game development issue and prefer NOT to allow that to dictate the reality of what we're allowed to RP. If the community collectively decided that we were only allowed to play NPC-level characters I'd just fully quit, no questions asked. That's not to deride those who decide to play such characters of their own volition. I just feel like there's a difference between that and a demand that anyone who stands out be hammered down for it.

Annnyway, to answer the thread premise, here is what I imagine the various physical jobs to be capable of:

Warriors: Self-explanatory. See the intro with the WoL knocking and throwing enemies around with wild abandon. He has absolutely no trouble throwing a fully armored (with chain!) grown man some 20 yalms away with a swing of his axe. Their "inner beast" works more as a state of mind that allows them to fully devote the aether of their body towards these incredible and devastating attacks while also shrugging off blows.

Paladins: Equally self-explanatory. That intro is very useful, isn't it? They should be able to take considerably more damage than you would think a human capable of. Stopping a blow by Behemoth, for example, should not be outside of their ability. I'm not too keen on their lore, however, because I never leveled the job to cap (unlike literally every other DoW class). They have some interesting potential due to their combination of martial prowess with a smidgen of magic.

Dragoons: They certainly do seem to have some pretty crazy and precise air control. In addition, they seem to have some way of directing all the force of their blow into their enemy and preventing any of it from damaging themselves on the landing. No matter how you look at it, they're a force to be reckoned with. They seem to be devoted specifically to using their aether in very short and explosive bursts of action - first in the acceleration (both into the air and downwards into the target), second in the impact in which they must doubly damage their foe while protecting themselves.

Monks: The only of the original five physical jobs that is not depicted in a CG trailer yet. Easiest reference: Tifa from Advent Children. Crazy fast and powerful combinations augmented by their "chakra" (re: moar aether). Blows that can send people flying, quite literally. While this is not canon, I would not think it outside of the realm of possibility for them to 'charge' their aether for ever more devastating blows, at the cost of depleting their stamina (re: TP) faster.
But mostly, they're just LIGHTNING FAST. Hence, Greased Lightning. That gap-closer they use where they practically teleport to the target? Yeah, that kind of speed.

Bards: Gods, that accuracy. And the speed at which they can let arrows fly? Absurd. That's not even considering their bardsong in the equation. That plus acrobatics makes for a powerful and slippery foe. Naturally, all of their arrows are charged with aether, allowing them to fly further and hit harder than they otherwise normally would. The best arrows, I imagine, are the ones with natural aether-conductive properties that allow a particularly skilled archer to pierce even the toughest opponents. Also, the Ironworks bow is a freakin' railgun!

Ninjas: Do I need to? Everyone knows what they're capable of. They're probably the most straightforward of all the jobs thanks to their lore being so to-the-point on this. The combination of speed, precision, stealth, and the elemental techniques granted by mudra make them very dangerous and super-effective as scouts. That being said... while Naruto ninjas may make sense as a reference, the emphasis in FFXIV is largely on their physical abilities, not their mudra, and as such I would highly advise against attempting to RP the more outrageous abilities. (I was going to say 'stuff like chidori is ok' but then I don't know how having lightning coming out of your hand would work in FFXIV so...)

Dark Knights: I probably shouldn't include the expac classes here but I will anyway because I can. From what I've seen so far, dark knights are the more offensively-oriented mirror image of paladins, and as such you can expect their combination of martial prowess and DARRRKNESSS to be similarly inclined. Much of how they function will depend on how their use of darkness actually works. Expect laz0rz. (Not really, that's just kind of my blind hope, because I'm not very interested in them otherwise.)

Machinists: The most unique of the physical DPS classes, and the ones with probably/most likely the weakest actual physical abilities. I fully expect them to be completely dependent on their technology to overcome their lack of aether-based feats of martial prowess. Fortunately, they use guns, and not just any guns, but aether-powered guns with special attachments, and as we all know, guns hit hard and are extremely lethal. Guns in Eorzea in particular are based on the Rule of Cool and, as such, ignore ammunition limitations and the like. I suspect that they work more like black mages in-universe than any of the other, more martial classes.

Chris Ganale · **04-13-2015, 02:15 PM**

If it was decided we would only be allowed to play NPC-tier characters, I would first laugh at them for having the kind of hubris it takes to think that they get to decide how we're going to play and continue to play my characters who are well above the average commoner without any change.

Then, as a joke, I would say "Yes, my characters are NPC-tier. Oh hey, those absurdly-powerful characters that a DM uses to murder the party are NPCs too."

Val · **04-13-2015, 02:18 PM**

(04-13-2015, 01:42 PM)undefined Wrote: Ninjas: Do I need to? Everyone knows what they're capable of. They're probably the most straightforward of all the jobs thanks to their lore being so to-the-point on this. The combination of speed, precision, stealth, and the elemental techniques granted by mudra make them very dangerous and super-effective as scouts. That being said... while Naruto ninjas may make sense as a reference, the emphasis in FFXIV is largely on their physical abilities, not their mudra, and as such I would highly advise against attempting to RP the more outrageous abilities. (I was going to say 'stuff like chidori is ok' but then I don't know how having lightning coming out of your hand would work in FFXIV so...)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but considering that fire is a plasma, would it not be possible to generate flames so hot that they take on the form of lightning? And I'd imagine the mudra would work two ways: Either a direct elemental call from the sky, as seen, or taking the element of lightning into the body to discharge it however the Ninja sees fit.

Spiritual Machine · **04-13-2015, 02:39 PM**

(04-13-2015, 02:18 PM)Val Wrote:
(04-13-2015, 01:42 PM)undefined Wrote: Ninjas: Do I need to? Everyone knows what they're capable of. They're probably the most straightforward of all the jobs thanks to their lore being so to-the-point on this. The combination of speed, precision, stealth, and the elemental techniques granted by mudra make them very dangerous and super-effective as scouts. That being said... while Naruto ninjas may make sense as a reference, the emphasis in FFXIV is largely on their physical abilities, not their mudra, and as such I would highly advise against attempting to RP the more outrageous abilities. (I was going to say 'stuff like chidori is ok' but then I don't know how having lightning coming out of your hand would work in FFXIV so...)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but considering that fire is a plasma, would it not be possible to generate flames so hot that they take on the form of lightning? And I'd imagine the mudra would work two ways: Either a direct elemental call from the sky, as seen, or taking the element of lightning into the body to discharge it however the Ninja sees fit.

Fire is technically just a chemical reaction, but you're right that if it's hot enough the reacting matter can ionize.

At least one source in-game implies that ninjutsu is scarcely different from thaumaturgy, with both being a forceful manipulation of aether guided by the caster's will. There are even hard limits to the technique--a Ninja has to be focused when performing the Mudras, and there is a recovery period between usage of Ninjutsu due to the toll it takes on the Ninja.

This is all covered in the opening Ninja Job quest (the only one I did), and it all just sounds like quick, cheap, taxing spellwork to me.

Caspar · **04-14-2015, 05:47 AM**

I haven't read all of this, so I can't say if this has been mentioned already, but perhaps consider looking at non-physical applications of aether too. Of course your character could make use of aether subconsciously to strengthen his muscle fibers or bone to better resist injury; this is subtle enough for him to look mundane as you seem to want, yet still supernatural enough to fight on the level of other characters in the setting. But how about instinct? Perhaps it's not so much something as intense as clairvoyance, but perhaps his battlefield experience is such that he has powerful, aetheric-fueled hunches. Like the aether of a potential assailant feels different than that of others around him, and so he gets a really nasty gut feeling when someone is attempting to get the drop on him. Or perhaps he has a flash of intuition that isn't more explicit than a powerful thought or subconscious movement in his body, where he finds himself acting before he's even aware of his own intent; i.e. his body responds to the aether in the opponent and lends his sword arm speed to parry or preempt his opponent's strike with one of his own.

The way I play it is that since aether seems to be in pretty much everything, the old martial arts concept of 'sakki' (murderous intent) works in both a literal and conceptual sense. A person who is not sensitive to aether cannot claim to have supernatural sense, but at the same time, they can rely on experience, intuition, hunches, or being just plain paranoid to "feel" the animosity of an assailant before they act. But a person like a monk, who manipulates chakra and is explicitly connected to powers within the surrounding environment, or perhaps the hypothetical aether-manipulating mundane fighter that seems to be the topic of the thread, actually can claim to "feel" an enemy because they presumably have instinctive awareness of that person's aether. I rp the distinction between the two as poorly studied and not particularly concrete. It is difficult to determine whether your sudden reaction to a sneak attack, or a successful guess that your opponent is going to aim for your right leg instead of your left before he's even moved, is something within you or a supernatural power; many people of martial bent probably only care that they're alive and their opponent is dead.

Psychological warfare could be a matter to delve into too. I thought raubahn looked rather different during that one cutscene. Maybe this is an effect of aether making him appear monstrous and terrifying in the eyes of his enemies. A trick of the light makes your character's features seem bestial and utterly inhuman, just long enough to make them hesitate. But in fact this isn't a coincidence and is actually your aether actively affecting their senses.

Being that my character is effectively a freak with unnatural strength, I can't really claim to be playing a mundane character, but I try to find feasible enough explanations for what she can do that it leaves people uncertain as to how much is aether and how much is built in. In some cases I haven't really decided. What is most important to me is establishing what she can do and delivering consequences where they matter.

Imo · **04-14-2015, 06:35 AM**

Thing that makes me scratch my head: people demanding that you only play characters with realistic, down-to-earth abilities in Final Fantasy.

Another thing that makes me scratch my head: people who give spellcasters free pass to do anything because magic, but demand that warrior types be limited by real world physics.

I play all of Imogene's paladin abilities as IC - all of those flashing lights accompanying high level sword techniques, the ability to get stomped on by a huge dragon and survive, and such. This is how the game envisions a high level character, and I stick to it. Also, very little of that is magic - most of it is because powerful heroes are simply that good. I don't think Raubahn's show of power is him using aether, either - at least not in the way mages or monks do. Chalking up all physics-breaking abilities as magic is a very western approach, that ignores the fact that this is a Japanese game - and in Japanese stories, characters whose skill lets them perform supernaturally amazing feats, not because of magic but because they're just that good, are very common.

If anyone wants to play a more mundane, realistic character, I am perfectly okay with this. Just don't demand that others do so as well.

Aaron · **04-14-2015, 07:03 AM**

(04-14-2015, 06:35 AM)Imo Wrote: Thing that makes me scratch my head: people demanding that you only play characters with realistic, down-to-earth abilities in Final Fantasy.

Another thing that makes me scratch my head: people who give spellcasters free pass to do anything because magic, but demand that warrior types be limited by real world physics.

I play all of Imogene's paladin abilities as IC - all of those flashing lights accompanying high level sword techniques, the ability to get stomped on by a huge dragon and survive, and such. This is how the game envisions a high level character, and I stick to it. Also, very little of that is magic - most of it is because powerful heroes are simply that good. I don't think Raubahn's show of power is him using aether, either - at least not in the way mages or monks do. Chalking up all physics-breaking abilities as magic is a very western approach, that ignores the fact that this is a Japanese game - and in Japanese stories, characters whose skill lets them perform supernaturally amazing feats, not because of magic but because they're just that good, are very common.

If anyone wants to play a more mundane, realistic character, I am perfectly okay with this. Just don't demand that others do so as well.

^ This.

I didn't surprise me at all when Rabaughn kicked a pillar like a soccer ball. I've seen a spiky blonde haired human with blue eyes and carrying a giant sword cut concrete like it was butter. What's so surprising about seeing a guy twice his size kicking a stone pillar?

It's Final fantasy, not Final Reality. Imagination is key! But try to be considerate.

The only people that godmode are those that also go around looking for fights 24/7 to prove how badass they are.

Aaron insanely fast and accurate to the point he can throw swords (not daggers) like darts. Hes done it so many times I think it's become his signature move lol.

But he despises fighting. So not many people are getting a blade hurled at them. Even if by some chance they wanted to.

Val · **04-14-2015, 07:22 AM**

(04-14-2015, 06:35 AM)Imo Wrote: Thing that makes me scratch my head: people demanding that you only play characters with realistic, down-to-earth abilities in Final Fantasy.

Another thing that makes me scratch my head: people who give spellcasters free pass to do anything because magic, but demand that warrior types be limited by real world physics.

I play all of Imogene's paladin abilities as IC - all of those flashing lights accompanying high level sword techniques, the ability to get stomped on by a huge dragon and survive, and such. This is how the game envisions a high level character, and I stick to it. Also, very little of that is magic - most of it is because powerful heroes are simply that good. I don't think Raubahn's show of power is him using aether, either - at least not in the way mages or monks do. Chalking up all physics-breaking abilities as magic is a very western approach, that ignores the fact that this is a Japanese game - and in Japanese stories, characters whose skill lets them perform supernaturally amazing feats, not because of magic but because they're just that good, are very common.

If anyone wants to play a more mundane, realistic character, I am perfectly okay with this. Just don't demand that others do so as well.

I try not to knock people for doing that. However, I also recognize that a lot of the characters doing super flashy things in Final Fantasy games are the main characters--of which I will stress again that we are not. As for being stomped on by a dragon and how the game envisions a high level character, I think it's best to separate game mechanics and RP. Otherwise, your character never gets tired and they can run forever and so on and so forth.

Warren Castille · **04-14-2015, 07:32 AM**

(04-14-2015, 06:35 AM)Imo Wrote: If anyone wants to play a more mundane, realistic character, I am perfectly okay with this. Just don't demand that others do so as well.

Anyone demanding anything about another roleplayer's character is doing it wrong.

Aaron · **04-14-2015, 08:15 AM**

Just rewatched the scene with Thancred and Yugiri and this raises a question for those who feel against being like the MCs with a burning passion. To avoid animosity I want to stress this is to no one in particular.Â

If Thancred is a Rogue (Which he is.) And he say, cuts through steel at one point with a little knife.

Is it suddenly off limits for a Rogue to do that without being Thancred? Or if you want a less extreme. What if Jacke the Rogue did the above? In all honesty I would think if Thancred were replaced with Jacke in that scene at the Sahagin pit he would have did just as good as Thancred. The Echo doesn't seem to enhance Thancred physically.

Raubaughns (failed so hard at spelling) is a Highlander right? He kicked a pillar like a football.

Would it /really/ be awkward if say (hope he doesn't mind me using his character) Berrod opened a chakra and did the same thing? Id understand going wtf if Aaron did that because he's half Raus size but I wouldn't see anything weird if a known powerful Highlander like Berrod did it.

Im curious to the replies.

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Aether for fighters (or 'Dragoon OP')

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