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Ashren Dotharl · **07-02-2013, 07:13 AM**

The way I look at it is there is no longer any White Magic or Black Magic like there was in FFXI, it's all just elemental magic. Even Cure is considered Wind Elemental. So it doesn't seem like that big of a stretch if you have CNJ/WHM and THM/BLM to claim your character has mastered all the elemental forms of magic.

Likewise, a character who starts as a MRD/WAR and then trades his axe in for a spear to go LNC/DRG could also claim to be a master of both. I don't think we'll see a lot of people claiming just because they have every class at 50 they can RP as being a master of every class (but I could be wrong), but I don't think multiclassing should be considered taboo in general. Plenty of characters in game tend to bend or break the rules, such as Thancred supposedly being a Bard but he uses a weapon not even available in the game (throwing knives), or Y'shtola being a White Mage or Conjurer but having crazy psychic powers (or at least her spells in cutscenes appear like psychic powers).

Xeon · **07-02-2013, 07:19 AM**

I might not have much knowledge of the lore in it self however i do have an opinion of multiclassing. And its quite easy. As long as there a valid reason for knowing something or alot of things. Go for it.

Its unlikely a 20 year old Hyur mastered every aspect of everyyhing, hell its unlikely for probably anyone. However. Its more likely that a older character would have been able to learn more things and work on them due to the time being alive and during that time being able to train.

So i believe it comes down to how you spend your time and how much you had to spend. If you only trained in weapon combat and devoted your whole life to it i think your social skills might be somewhat lacking making you shut in.

And thats all from me, Read it if you want. Or not (/waves goodbye)

Edit: My character for example will aim to be a paladin inrp as a longer term goal, this init self will make him need to learn both "Whitemagic" i think, yes? And Sword/shield techniques. So i guess any job can technically count as multiclassing?

-Xeon

Magellan · **07-02-2013, 07:35 AM**

To the OP's point;

Even Gandalf had a sword. He didn't really use it much, but there were situations where magic wouldn't do I suppose. I see no problem in someone having varying degrees of success at 2-3 disciplines, if ICly the character put in enough practice to develop the appropriate talents.

So no, multi-classing in itself isn't a terrible thing (since my char has 2 class skills) but I would refrain from absorbing too many of them into your RP, or adopting the PvE storyline that we are 'The One' because... well, in the greater community RP setting, we can't all be 'The One'. Keanu Reeves would disapprove.

Y'sehr · **07-02-2013, 09:05 AM**

Didn't samurai learn the sword, spear, and bow? Probably also hand to hand? It see proficiency in most weapons as not a big deal. Not everyone is going to be a master of their weapon, and claiming mastery of everything is silly, yes. Claiming to be able to fight competently with multiple weapons sounds fine.

I think Jobs, where the fighting schools blend less and you see master-level techniques, is where RP choices probably need to be made.

That's my 2 gil.

FreelanceWizard · **07-02-2013, 09:13 AM**

I suspect I'm going to be on the opposite side of, well, just about everyone when I say this, but here goes:

Given the nature of the game's story, I think it's safe to say that one can RP that every PC is, after a fashion, a "Chosen One." (I'm not going to spoil the plot, but suffice it to say that SE considered the typical MMO plot problems. Smile

) Now, of course you can ignore the plot, but the lore established by the plot is pretty clear about what's going on with the "average" player character adventurer; it's not, as I read it, establishing that you specifically are the Chosen One, but rather that you're part of a special group that is selective across the entire population of the world (and PCs, by definition, have to be less common than NPCs, or we'd have classes like "Chocobo Muck-Raker" and "Innkeeper" Smile

). So, I don't feel it's especially problematic to have a character that, through multi-classing, is competent in multiple fields of endeavor.

More problematic is the marking parts of actions in game as OOC and other parts as IC, which can get into weird RP or outright lore breaking. For instance, the Paladin Job requires expertise in Conjury. If you RP a Paladin who doesn't know the first thing about magic, for instance, you're both stepping on the lore and you have to explain why you can heal people -- or why your use of Cure is OOC and should be ignored. Some Jobs are more problematic here than others, but it remains true that telling people what they see on their screen doesn't exist is at best complicated.

That said, "competent" doesn't mean "ungodly powerful" or "master," and one always has to keep power levels reasonable and sensible given the age of your character, how long they've been an adventurer, etc. The aforementioned Paladin may RP that they've only learned enough Conjury to use a few skills, for instance, even if they've got Conjurer at 50.

Moonfire · **07-02-2013, 09:33 AM**

(07-02-2013, 02:05 AM)Curtis West Wrote: As I was doing some browsing for a potential class to settle on with my character, I noticed a trend here. Maybe it's because of the traditional Final Fantasy job roles ("Hey I am the white mage!") but it seems people tend to pick one job to be their main to RP with, and level (or completely ignore) the other stuff OOC'ly.Â

Coming from a non-FF background I must ask... why?

The part that I don't get is, Why learn something OOCly if it doesn't fit into your character? Isn't that what alts are for?

Â And is does it make sense lore wise to have multiple classes or multiple jobs? I one conversation the Â Guild leader NPC talks about how dedication is so important but then at level 10 they tell you that you can join other guilds. Also to delve further into a "Job" you need at least two classes. Is it explained when you start training for the job why you need both? Or is it just a mechanic to keep people from leveling too fast and really has no lore baring?

(07-02-2013, 02:23 AM)Uther Wrote: After a time of 'gooning it up (that's what I'm calling "playing a dragoon" now), I do plan to start experiencing more options with Uther ICly. I already have set up roads for him to go Warrior and Paladin. Possibly even Monk or Archer. I don't think Uther will be dabbling in magic, though. He doesn't know anything about that shiz.

Hate to burst your bubble but you need to be a conjurer to be a paladin so he is gonna have some magic under his belt. Unless you chose to ignore it ICly. Which I don't get but to each his own I guess.

(07-02-2013, 05:52 AM)Ashren Snow Wrote: Personally, if I took the time to level up Warrior and Black Mage as an example I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to claim my character has taken the time to train and become proficient with wielding black magic and an axe. FF games are all about pushing the envelop and doing things above and beyond what the normal person could do, so playing a character who has an affinity for all things combat wouldn't be unheard of, and the time it would take to level a new class from 1 to 50 you could easily explain the training in a new field of combat.

I agree with this to some extent. Given that it is only two jobs I think that is reasonable. Â I think our characters shouldn't fit into a "real life earth" model. However this needs to be used carefully. Knowing everything all at once seems to be a bit over the top. Dabbling is one thing but to use lvl 50 spells isn't really dabbling.

Â If you really want to level all jobs ICly though I think there are ways to do it. Â Maybe your character fails really bad at being a White Mage and even results in someone close to them dieing. Then he gives it up and moves on, etc. Basically don't have them all at once and have a good story/reason to go with the change.

(07-02-2013, 07:00 AM)Magellan Wrote: To be good at everything is god-moding (there I said it) and also makes for boring characters. If my char was good at every discipline the game offers, with no weaknesses and no flaws; where's the conflict? Where's the part where they struggle and overcome obstacles? Where's the realism? Every character should have limits, and things they simply cannot do, no matter how hard they try (unless you prefer Dragonball Z style RP)

I get that. But then why bother to lvl other things OOCly on that character? It breaks immersion to others who are around you RPing. They know you are an RPer and start a conversation. Then you say "sorry I don't lvl ICly." kind of bursts their bubble and throws everything off. Granted you have to learn to deal with this because not everyone RPs. But it is kind of a shame to get the same thing from RPers.

(07-02-2013, 07:19 AM)Xeon Wrote: Its unlikely a 20 year old Hyur mastered every aspect of everyyhing, hell its unlikely for probably anyone. However. Its more likely that a older character would have been able to learn more things and work on them due to the time being alive and during that time being able to train.

This made me think about some things...A day and night cycle in the game and therefore time in the game itself is short. Technically our characters would age faster. One quest might take days. Figuring all that in then by the time you train something all the way up to 50, it seems logical that the character has put in the time needed. However if you used this method to explain training then you should also use it as a matter of aging your character. Using this probably wouldn't work well though because they would age too quickly. I am not exactly sure why I brought this up but I guess I just wanted to throw it out there.

Myal · **07-02-2013, 09:59 AM**

(07-02-2013, 09:33 AM)Moonfire Wrote: I get that. But then why bother to lvl other things OOCly on that character? It breaks immersion to others who are around you RPing. They know you are an RPer and start a conversation. Then you say "sorry I don't lvl ICly." kind of bursts their bubble and throws everything off. Granted you have to learn to deal with this because not everyone RPs. But it is kind of a shame to get the same thing from RPers.

I'm sorry, but could you explain this more? In what situation could this happen? How could somebody "lvl ICly", anyway, considering that "level" is a separate concept from narrative to begin with?

Khaze'to Zhwan · **07-02-2013, 10:06 AM**

I guess I'm one of those people who chooses a few skills and sticks to them but puts a cap on them IC and won't really level up all the classes on one character. Â For example with Khaze'toÂ

His main choice of weapon is his spear. Â I will be taking him up the dragoon route as well which means that I need to at least have a little pugilist training. Â What I'll do though is say that he learnt the requirements needed and no more. Â IC that is, Â I probably won't stop leveling it because its probably quite fun, doubt I'd pick up monk though because hes just not that good IC. Â He would also get beaten IC if I started doing hand to hand combat with an IC better trained pugilist/monk.

Same with the bow. Â A life of hunting with spear and bow means hes quite proficient at putting arrows in things. Â There is no way he would go all the way to bard though as that doesn't fit his character. Â He also can't sing and isn't very musically minded anyway.

He can cook, fish, make some basic potions and leather gear and hes not bad at carving wood for his masks. Â However its hardly fine dining, his Alchemist knowledge is limited to basic healing salves and the like and his leather work whilst functional is very rough. Â And with the carving all he can really do is make pretty things. Â Don't ask him to make more substantial things with wood as he wouldn't know where to begin.

When it comes to being able to use different kinds of weapons as someone trained in close quarters fighting there are so many different styles. Â Western to eastern sword fighting for instance or broad sword to rapier. Â yeah sure a sword is a sword and to quote game of thrones "stick 'em with the point end". Â I'm not saying your character couldn't be trained, far from it but picking up a new style takes a lot of work and thats just swords of a similar length. Â Look at the medivil long sword against the roman gladius. Â They can both stab and both cut but to try and use them in the same way would not work very well. Â

Also an axe/mace is used very differently to a sword, Â Swords are slashing and impaling weapons vs the hacking style of the others, Â Axes and morning stars use the tip of the weapon to do the most damage and some people just really can't go from one style to the next, again you can train but it takes time and effort.

When it comes to the mixed training vs specialisation I have always seen it as if you are fighting with a sward and have say some hand to hand combat skills and you are fighting a pugilist you should have some insight on what moves they are going to try and use. That is on a basic level and if you both know the same technique, If they know a very different style to what you know they could catch you of guard quite easily. Especially as hand to hand often had a lot of disarms and training against people with weapons in their hands. It could go either way and tbh that's is part of what makes role play so rich for me.

Sorry for the long rant but I guess this is something that interests me a little bit and you always get worked up about things that interest you. Â Just my two gil.

Tl;dr (never had to do one of these before Big Grin

)
Sure you can be relatively skilled with a variety of different weapons and styles but it takes much time and effort to get GOOD with them. And mixed martial arts might have some advantages over s specialisation but then it also works the other way.

Magellan · **07-02-2013, 10:32 AM**

(07-02-2013, 09:59 AM)Myal Wrote:
(07-02-2013, 09:33 AM)Moonfire Wrote: I get that. But then why bother to lvl other things OOCly on that character? It breaks immersion to others who are around you RPing. They know you are an RPer and start a conversation. Then you say "sorry I don't lvl ICly." kind of bursts their bubble and throws everything off. Granted you have to learn to deal with this because not everyone RPs. But it is kind of a shame to get the same thing from RPers.
I'm sorry, but could you explain this more? In what situation could this happen? How could somebody "lvl ICly", anyway, considering that "level" is a separate concept from narrative to begin with?

I never said I do not lvl ICly - going on hunting misiions or exploring dungeons with friends is a great RP adventure. But typically I do not follow the storyline or quest story in this case., because it does not make sense to do so for my char. For instance, on one of the beginner gathering quests, my Thaum was not gathering body parts for some random stranger that gave her a quest to do so... my char. Would have laughed at such a request and thought the guy a major weirdo. Instead, she NEEDED those ingedients for a potion she was trying to make. ICly I was satisfying the quest, while taking care of the quest OOCly too.

I do not think in an MMO you can expect 100% immersion, because the game is not built specifically for roleplayers. Its not like tabletop where the whole point is RP. So to expect the game mechanics to make sense RP wise, or to expect others to pay attention to it ICly is just going to be a wall of frustration and headache. Honestly its expecting too much of the game (which is not built with the sole purpose of roleplay) and the community.

Attempts can be made to incorporate the main story into RP, but that is an individual user decision. For me, the main story has little to do with my char, so I treat PvE as separate, as OOC

Martiallais · **07-02-2013, 10:47 AM**

I have to say when I first started looking at FFXIV to RP, one of my big concerns was actually that I might be surrounded by people who were RP'ing as super powerful experts in every single class they touched.Â

Thankfully, here at least, I've seen that by and large that isn't the case.Â

As for myself, Zarek will be a hand to hand fighter first, everything else will be secondary. I plan to likely take a little lancer (staff fighting) and maybe a small bit of archer (which he'd have to learn). Even lower than that will be magic because the character is a melee combatant more than anything (though who knows, RP may change that!). It all boils down to finding a way to a) create the character you envision then b) figuring out how to reasonably explain (and if one wants to go the extra mile - align it with general roleplay standards). That's just my approach though.

After all, if a character is amazing at every single thing they touch, where's the fun in interacting with them? Where's the struggle and why would they need anyone else?

Nox · **07-02-2013, 11:32 AM**

I'm basically just going to echo what a few people have said, but it's my beliefs on the subject as well. Having level 50 in every single class is called being a "Gary Stu" in the rp realm. You're good at everything and have no major faults aside from whatever (I'm sorry to say it) weak personal flaws you can come up with. In a situation where you're good at everything, pretty much any character flaw can be combated. If you're good at everything, you're either a robot or you're perfect.Â

I made W'Dekan a Lancer because of how he grew up. He was a fisherman from a young age, which eludes to spear fishing, and everything started from there. Even though his family was mostly comprised of Pugilists, he picked up the spear and was different. The only other trees I can see him touching are Pugilist (because of his family and, OCCily because I need it for Dragoon) and Conjurer because A) He's in Gridania already and B) because of how he is, he'd want to try the other side of the coin (Magic Vs. Might) just to confirm that he picked the right "school".

Gideon Aryeh · **07-02-2013, 11:49 AM**

My main will be a monk/bard, when people ask how does he know both he will say "You get a lot of time to train living on a boat". Will he have some Marauder skills? Yes because oocly I want some off tanking abilities, what's the ic reason he has Marauder skills? Because Marauder is the class that is prevalent in Limsa Lominsa where he grew up so it was impossible to not learn a few things from Marauders living there.
Â
Honestly I'm playing him as "Yeah I know a few things that I picked up here and there". He is thirty two years old, and is well travelled. He will never outright call himself a monk or a bard for or any class or job outright.
Â
I'm playing the character, not his class or job, he knows how to hand to hand fight, he knows how to cook andÂ knows his way around herbs enough to make a healing salve/potionÂ and he can take a hit and sing, and that will be his exact answer to anyone who asks.
Â
"I grew up on a boat, you had to be self sufficient, you get sick there ain't no healer around, you learn how to make things. You fight pirates, well you better pick up the right tools of the trade to keep you alive our you're dead. Shootin arrows to hit guys on another ship is how you keep them from boarding. We sing to keep from getting bored, we eat fish and cook fish along with whatever is in the port that you were just at. My pop told me how to live, that's all, taught me what he knew to be self sufficient because at sea all you got is the sea, the sky, the stars and yourself. Being a treasure hunter you are constantly on the move, get sick from something you caught at some ruin? Better learn how to heal yourself using local herbs, cause sometimes you ain't got the luxury of a nearby market and lots of times you ain't got the luxury of money"

Azthran · **07-02-2013, 12:01 PM**

Like others I don't mind multi-classing in RP so long as people keep things balanced.

I myself will probably end up leveling most of the classes and jobs eventually but dragoon or paladin will probably be my main focus along with mining and blacksmithing.Â

Now to answer the question of why would I level everything on just U'zhan even if the class doesn't fit the character from an IC point of view? Simply put I would find it to be a hassle and a bit of a waste of time to drag my feet through the main story quests to get my airship pass and chocobo again along with running around to touch all the crystal not to mention DoW/DoM gear you can pick up from dungeons. I'm not in character all the time and personally I've never had anyone who knew I was a RPer come over and start RPing with me while I was out questing.Â

So again simply put starting a new character in this game just to level a new class requires far more effort than other games that lock mounts and such to a level and not story progression.

Naunet · **07-02-2013, 12:19 PM**

(07-02-2013, 09:33 AM)Moonfire Wrote: I get that. But then why bother to lvl other things OOCly on that character? It breaks immersion to others who are around you RPing. They know you are an RPer and start a conversation. Then you say "sorry I don't lvl ICly." kind of bursts their bubble and throws everything off. Granted you have to learn to deal with this because not everyone RPs. But it is kind of a shame to get the same thing from RPers.

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here. Not everyone has to "level" ICly. Particularly for additional classes/jobs, the person may just be leveling them because they're a completionist (something I can totally get behind). But also, it is not uncommon for roleplayers to have a character that is, in game mechanics terms, a particular class, but is not that at all ICly.

For example, in TERA one of my main RP characters is a former magitech engineer who was involved in some not so pleasant shenanigans that have basically left her handicapped by pain and a corresponding drug addiction meant to try and deal with that pain. She also happens to be my "main" in game play and when I rolled her, I rolled her as a warrior. The thing is, she is not in any way a warrior ICly. She's not trained in swords at all; she's a civilian who used to be a productive member of society as an engineer but has since become... well, not. (It would take waaaaay to long to explain all the RP I've done with her since launch of the game, so I'll just leave it at that. xD) She was given swords once, recently. They were an experiment created by one of our key antagonists in our little plot, and though Ariadne possessed them, she certainly didn't know how to use them aside from swinging one around wildly.

So yea, warrior in game mechanics, but definitely not one ICly. And it's not very hard to get people to accept this (especially when you run around RPing without a weapon equipped - no one should be able to "see" your class ICly anyway).

On a similar vein, I also often ignore level when it comes to a character's proficiency in a certain discipline - and I'm not the only one. This is usually due to my want to have a particular character concept, but only wanting the character for RP rather than gameplay.

So yea, IC class and OOC class are not as clear cut as you might think they are.

Regarding the in-game day/night cycle: It's insanely fast. There's no way I'm taking that time as canon.

Ellie · **07-02-2013, 12:32 PM**

There are conveniences and benefits to levelling multiple classes on the same character (cross class skills, for instance, or the ability to change to a crafter class to repair gear on the fly) that would not be available if people stuck strictly to what their character's IC occupation is. What about those whose IC jobs are not available to be leveled?

I can see why someone who has a character who wears armor ICly would want to level a warrior class in order to look the part, but that's about as far as it goes in my mind.

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RP and multi-classing

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes