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Rosamund · **03-12-2015, 06:59 AM**

I can second (or third) the "RP friendly" as well. Sadly it tends to mean maybe a handful of people RP and the guild tolerates discussion of it but they don't actually do any as a whole.

Huge guilds can put me off. I've been in some over the years and the combination of established cliques and being a new face in the crowd can leave you quite isolated, despite your efforts to jump in and get involved. Small guilds can be guilty of 'inviting and forgetting' new members as well but I found it popped up more often in the big ones.

But I'd say the biggest deterrent is drama. If I see it on their site before I join, or see it happening a lot after I join, well, I'm going to have second thoughts. I know it happens - it's fairly unavoidable at times in RP communities - but containing it and dealing with it should be a priority. I just want to have fun after a long day at work and being thrust in the middle of arguments isn't what I'd call fun. Sad

Kellach Woods · **03-12-2015, 07:35 AM**

Multi-game Guilds/Leagues/FCs
Why would I commit to a group that can't commit themselves and will die when NEW SHINY MMO comes out? No, I don't care that you're the exception. I've seen it happen far too much from people who said they were the exception.

FCs that immediately recruit newcomers/Spam invites to FCless people
Just means you want big numbers, not people. Insert Patrick McGoohan quote here.

FCs that require an out-of-game commitment to join/maintain spot in FC
I have no problems doing things for the FC in game. I have no problem going through a recruitment process in-game. The moment you ask me to fill out an application on your website is the moment I know you're not really interested in having me there. There is absolutely nothing on that form you could not ask me in-game where I would be far more available to answer said questions. And as someone put earlier in the thread - I don't need yet another website to join for nebulous reasons.

RP-friendly
Stop kidding yourselves.

FC Officers instigating drama
Sadly, happens entirely too often for me to not mention it. Drama happens, I can usually sit back and mock it. However, if an officer instigates the drama and has absolutely no repercussions for it? Massive red flag.

Steel Wolf · **03-12-2015, 07:41 AM**

Guild size....ESPECIALLY when said guild actively advertises itself as one of the top 5-10 in terms of membership. Just means a pile of cliques under one banner for the sake of convenience or personal benefits.

RP-friendly is another one...which means that they just barely tolerate speaking around a bar and that's about it.

On the other side of that same coin is the "mature RP" tag. This could mean either one of two things--individuals who believe themselves to be villains or salty or sling swearwords around like morons, or a collection of digital masturbatory aids.

Qhora Bajihri · **03-12-2015, 07:51 AM**

I don't think I could be in a guild without a web presence, so web applications don't bother me at all. First thing I do when looking into guilds is check for a site and forums. In-game only would feel too ephemeral to me, not solid, without a place to refer to policies, leave and receive longer messages, etc.

I've been in a few "RP-friendly" guilds in the past that were decent experiences as general social guilds, but I wouldn't tag them for anyone who actually wants to RP, no. They've generally had 2 or 3 RPers who go to the occasional server wide events or post stories on their forums, but that was it. They never organized events themselves or promoted RP in any way.

I don't mind the voicechats, but I only use them for PvE if at all possible. I've pulled off listening without talking before. I'm just not comfortable using them for socializing, so if they were required for that aspect, it'd be a definite no.

Size doesn't bother me. I've been in all sizes. Activity does. Big or small, if there's no one around, it's time to go. I don't mind quiet chats or a lack of greetings. I don't greet or farewell myself. It feels awkward and pushy to me. But if I don't see anyone log in at all for days? No point.

I'm wary of PvE guilds that have high end restrictions. They're not bad, per se, obviously. It means said guild knows what they are and what they want in their members. But it also gives the impression they aren't willing to work on newcomers, and so be it. That's their prerogative, but I'd look elsewhere if I were shopping.

I prefer freeform sorts of RP to structured storylines, so I'd probably be wary of a guild that advertised those, again, not because of inherent badness, but because it's just not my cup of tea. Scheduled events would be a plus, but episodic planned-out plotlines needing certain characters to do certain things, not so much. I prefer instigating single events and letting things flow. Again, if a guild has such a thing, it'd be generally positive, because that guild knows who they are and what they do. They just wouldn't be for me.

Warren Castille · **03-12-2015, 08:23 AM**

No Drama rules. Because forbidding discussion on the front-end definitely means it won't explode out of the back.

Maia · **03-12-2015, 08:43 AM**

"What scares you away from a FC/Guild?"

My very first thought was "Owning one lol", but to reply seriously...

Lazy or negative Guild leadership. That sort of stuff trickles down, and really sets the tone for the entire guild. Being the " idea man" and asking everyone else to do all the actual work uses people up, and creates a frustrating environment. This is just my opinion though!

It's a very interesting discussion, and I like hearing other people's opinions on these things, from the perspective of one of those Pesky Leaders. (Not that I would boast my FC to suit anyone in particular. I only gathered my current members through misdirection and cake.)

Kasumi Gakunin · **03-12-2015, 09:02 AM**

This is going to be a big post I suspect. In no particular order here are some of things that have made me leave a fc or decide not to join one in the last year and a half I've been playing.

1. Ongoing absent leader of a fc especially with no officer to pick up their slack.Â

Why lead a fc if you're not going to be on every day or so? I know real life happens but running a fc is a big responsibility. I expect the leader of a fc to keep an eye on the happenings of their fc and any officers who may be taking advantage of their power. I've also seen fc leaders who are rarely on but there's no other officers left in charge to help run the fc and do important things like let people join with their alts.

2. Role play free companies that don't actually rp that much.

I've joined a few rp free companies that don't actually do any active rp. There's no organisation of rp events, no rp direction for the fc. They've actively advertised themselves as a company that primarily role plays but they don't actually rp or their rp leads no where interesting.Â

3. Cliques.

Cliques are a natural part of free companies. I get it. But when clique's get so bad that new members aren't welcomed to the company or involved in role play, they aren't going to stick around. FC members need to be mindful of this is they want to keep new members.

4. Officers getting away with abusive behaviour because of their position.Â

Nothing makes me want to leave a fc faster now then seeing an officer being verbally offensive and rude and not being pulled up on it by anyone else in power....or any members in general.

5. Random invites to fc's.Â

I'm not joining your fc if you send me an invite, especially when my search info says that I'm currently not looking for a fc.

6. Rumors.Â

Rumors are bound to happen in the rp community but I've actively avoided joining at least one fc in the last year after I read a few reports on tumblr that a certain officer in a fc had been something-phobic a few months ago and actively told an officer inviting me to join their fc that I wasn't interested in joining because of it.Â

7. Mandatory voice chat.Â

As someone who has ongoing social anxiety, using voice chat makes me extremely nervous. If it's mandatory to use voice there's no way I'm joining that fc. I think free companies need to be more mindful of this type of thing.Â

8. Constant sexual/racist ect ect jokes in fc chat.

I don't mind a good joke here and there but when it gets to the point where nothing else is discussed but jokes of the sexual or otherwise offensive nature, especially in fc chat where -everyone- in the fc can see it I find myself feeling highly uncomfortable. If someone wants to tell those sort of jokes constantly they should leave it for their personal linkshells or for tells. I actively make an effort to make sure none of the more randy jokes I make in mine and my rp partners linkshell are shared in my fc cause I -know- they are not suitable for everyone's eyes to see. I expect the same from other fc members.Â

I think that's everything. >.>

SicketySix · **03-12-2015, 09:37 AM**

These are all excellent points and opinions!

I think my 2nd biggest thing is when they sell themselves as being helpful to new players, for example, running content with them, maybe helping to craft some better gear for you, etc. So then you join because hey, apart from having them.lend a helping hand, people like this are probably pretty nice. But you join and everything that they advertised was false. They are all busy doing their own thing and don't have time to help anyone with anything.

Granted, it's not like they have to help you, but don't advertise that you are if really you're not.

Kage · **03-12-2015, 09:56 AM**

I've seen a few comments about the inclusion of using off-game websites. The particular references, in my experience, are for FCs that -require- before application your necessary joining of the site. It's different to encourage the use of the sites to maintain and organize events from making it an absolute necessity.

I actually really hated this requirement made by my ex-FC leader who we found out cheated on his wife who paid for his everything by cyberin' when he kicked us all out of his fc. He changed the notes on the FC stating that you needed to be SCOB ready to join. He was completely adamant about being an "endgame"-raiding PVE FC and wanted everybody to go out and look for other types. When he and most of the FC were... well not ready and not the types of people for that type of FC. Nevermind the fact that he was barely ever on. That type of FC leadership is not wanted. Words like "this free company of mine" etc as if we and the FC were his property. Telling people who were around to help with the FC community much longer than him "You will -never- be in a more responsible role in my FC."

Anyway yeah. Honestly, one of the more toxic players on Balmung I've found is this person who did use to be in this FC. It took months after I joined the FC before something was done about him. Apparently there was going to be a merger once but as soon as the other FC found out this person was in the FC they NOPENOPENOPENOPE.jpg'd right on out. Constantly negative, woe-is-me, toxic to newer players, can't admit when wrong, I don't have a girlfriend/boyfriend wahhh type. The FC leader I found out wouldn't deal with this person even though the officer who was on most of the time tried to get the others involved in the constant bad behavior. Most of the people in the FC even had this person on their blacklist.

As a person who wants to be helpful but also spends a lot of time doing a -lot- of other stuff, I've encouraged the FCs I've been in to try and conduct scheduled events to help people out in the events where they tried to do it randomly. Tends to be more messy when people try not to organize that type of thing.

Cato · **03-12-2015, 10:34 AM**

In all fairness, I don't think in-depth applications are a bad thing. I get it - people don't necessarily like filling out forms! I certainly don't - but they serve an excellent purpose and help give a feel for an applicant.

If the application is followed by a trial period then that's even better - since it helps shape an all around view of the individual and whether or not they'll be a good fit in the long run.

As for mandatory use of a guild site? That's rather tricky. On one hand I agree that it's not great but on the other I can see the logic behind it. If someone is truly engaged with a Free Company then they shouldn't have much of an issue posting on a guild forum, especially if the atmosphere is friendly and all sorts of different discussions are taking place. It leads to bonding!

Flickering Ember · **03-12-2015, 11:58 AM**

(03-11-2015, 06:22 PM)Manasas Reed Wrote:
(03-11-2015, 06:14 PM)Lilithium Wrote:
(03-11-2015, 05:03 PM)Manasas Reed Wrote: For me personally, anytime I see or hear "sure we'd love to have you, just join our website and apply there" I immediately am peacing outta that joint.
As an FC leader I can honestly say the use of a website is for organization purposes. Especially if it's a bigger FC. There's only so much we can cram in the message of the day and being on a site means we can put a calender up for people to check for future events. Sadly you'll be a bit out of luck for a lot of places to join since this is a rather common requirement.

Also with Sastra on keeping an eye on this since it's something I might use

When it comes to joining a group...Hmmm. Not many things will make me shy away. A big thing might be favoritism towards a member or certain members, especially if its someone who is messing up and not answering for it.

It's a requirement that quite frankly, in my opinion needs to go away. I'm all for having to check the website for updates, events etc. Just don't want to have to sign up to apply

I am the opposite. If a guild doesn't have an active guild website then that will turn me away from a guild fast. While it's not always the case, guild applications can go hand and hand into promoting web activity in addition to other benefits. (Such as being able to know who is applying!) I like the community feel of the websites and enjoy checking for posts while at work. It's the same reason I am on this website.

(03-12-2015, 10:34 AM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: As for mandatory use of a guild site? That's rather tricky. On one hand I agree that it's not great but on the other I can see the logic behind it. If someone is truly engaged with a Free Company then they shouldn't have much of an issue posting on a guild forum, especially if the atmosphere is friendly and all sorts of different discussions are taking place. It leads to bonding!

It's one I've thought about as an individual willing to run a guild, but it's ultimately too strict for me to ever put into use. My reasoning is that I like the environment a guild website creates. I feel it promotes activity, getting to know each other, getting to know each other's characters and it's just fun. But if I ever end up leading a guild again I know there are other ways to encourage website activity without requiring it.

Verad · **03-12-2015, 02:29 PM**

I strongly dislike when the leader of an RP FC has both an OOC and IC position of authority.*Â

I've often found that in other MMOs, such guilds lend themselves towards cults of personality and the encouraging of abusive and predatory behavior on the part of the leader. Often, people join the FC on the strength of their roleplay with the leader without considering whether the rest of the FC will be as entertaining, and it encourages plots to be about The Adventures of FC Leader and Supporting Cast.

None of the above is universally true, of course, but I've seen it happen enough, especially within the "House RP" community of World of Warcraft, that I am leery of any FC with a history describing how so-and-so leader is central to the foundations of the group.

*Disclaimer - Dubious Distributions positions Verad and myself as the OOC and IC authority within the FC. I am extremelyÂ uncomfortable with this position and fight it by mocking his actual level of authority over anybody in the FC whenever possible. Take that for what you will.

McBeefâ„¢ · **03-12-2015, 02:40 PM**

I don't like FCs that only promote intra-FC rp.

I like house rp and good internal plots, but I like it when they merge with world RP.

Aysun · **03-12-2015, 03:14 PM**

If...

-3/4ths of members are Miqo'te (Yea, I went there Tongue

).
-There is an obvious core clique/voice chat clique
-Members never leave their FC house.
-MIA leaders.
-Inactive IC channel (Linkpearl, etc)/all RP set up OOCly rather than organically
-They have a website that is unused/inactive/not updated
-It's nothing but big plot; I need social RP

I'm usually turned off.

Gegenji · **03-12-2015, 03:26 PM**

Back when I played WoW, the thing I hated most were the guilds that were dead-set on not taking anyone who might possibly be new to an instance. It was the stupid, circular logic of "If you want to run this instance, you have to have run this instance." Even with watching videos and reading strats, you couldn't come unless you had successfully cleared the content you wanted to go on - or had a friend high enough in the hierarchy to get you snuck in.

This was the time before LFR, too. So basically it was near impossible for a fresh person to try to get in on a raiding guild. Fortunately, FFXIV seems a lot better on that regard - with "statics" that seem a lot more open to bring along people who are willing to listen and learn. I still don't want to really rejoin the raiding scene, but it's a nice thing to see.

Other than that? A lack of communication between members. My sister got kicked out of a FC because apparently she upset someone and they just let it fester and complained about it behind her back instead of being a mature adult and talking it out with her. When I asked them about it (I had been invited to the FC as well, since I was still new and eager to bum off FC perks), they said they totally talked to her about it beforehand - something she couldn't recall at all.

The same sort of nonsense happened in my WoW guild. Someone would upset someone else and they'd just snark and talk behind their back until they got caught and then everything blew up and either one or both sides would leave the guild. It's stupid, childish nonsense. If there's an issue, please bring it up and see if it can't be rectified before hitting critical mass.

Unfortunately, that's not something you can really notice off the bat. It's just something you start to see creeping in. Someone being talked about after they've logged, sudden hostilities that seem to come from nowhere. I think that's why I'm so quick to try to correct any issues I may cause in my FCs... I'm really happy in the ones I'm in and my little panic-addled mind oft sees a slip-up cascading into something far worse.

And it's the fact that I still do that which keeps me from trying to get back into raiding, I think.

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