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Kinono · **12-03-2015, 05:31 AM**

Wait, where is the "fear of homophobic backlash" stuff coming from? I got the sense thatÂ Haurchefant came off as some sort of stereotypical dandy and was editted to be more, you know, a normal person regardless of sexuality. Being offended by that original portrayal would be the opposite of homophobic, would it not?

Kellach Woods · **12-03-2015, 08:13 AM**

In my personal opinion, it's less offensive more than extremely tiresome.

However, my personal opinion is worth squat.

Kinono · **12-03-2015, 11:27 AM**

No, I agree. Not much really offends me, but it seems strange to me that people were claiming that he was changed to protect the American homophobes and... considering he seemed to be written as a gay stereotype from a country that has a reputation for being way more homophobic than other first-world countries, I'm just wondering if I missed a step in logic somewhere.

For the record, I'm typically against censorship, but when that censorship is covering up hurtful stereotypes, I tend to be a little bit more okay with it.

Kage · **12-03-2015, 11:37 AM**

(12-03-2015, 11:27 AM)Kinono Wrote: No, I agree. Not much really offends me, but it seems strange to me that people were claiming that he was changed to protect the American homophobes and... considering he seemed to be written as a gay stereotype from a country that has a reputation for being way more homophobic than other first-world countries, I'm just wondering if I missed a step in logic somewhere.

For the record, I'm typically against censorship, but when that censorship is covering up hurtful stereotypes, I tend to be a little bit more okay with it.

The stereotyping would have been seen as "gay's behavior that seems very predatory and near sexual harassment keeps bothering me, the WoL. the gay is a creeper!"

A lot of people still think that gays prey on the people they are attracted to. "WhAT IF THEY WANT ME? I DONT WANT THEM HITTING ON ME OMG GO AWAY GAY"

So this 'problematic' behavior could have been seen as bad because it showed Haurchefant as a creepy gay guy or just a creepy guy.

They started toning it down in the middle of the 2.x patches by bringing him more in line with JP Haurchefant.

But I can easily see veryangrySJWtype of people being super offended by what they could have seen as creepy behavior or that a bisexual character is being shown as creepy. You can't always win.

Ashe · **12-03-2015, 03:11 PM**

(12-03-2015, 05:31 AM)Kinono Wrote: Wait, where is the "fear of homophobic backlash" stuff coming from? I got the sense thatÂ Haurchefant came off as some sort of stereotypical dandy and was editted to be more, you know, a normal person regardless of sexuality. Being offended by that original portrayal would be the opposite of homophobic, would it not?

In Japanese he would suggest he wanted you in his bed chamber and talk about how he likes the muscular bodies of adventurers.

He was not a stereotypical dandy in the slightest.Â
He was a loveable douchebag nut case >>

It wasn't really censorship as much as in english it really came off as someone you're not supposed to like. At all. Unless you understand that character type...which the general english-speaking audience wouldn't.

Cato · **12-03-2015, 03:26 PM**

I have to admit - as a guy who is into both genders but vastly prefers guys - the typical stereotypes surrounding gay/bisexual men don't do much for me. I'm not offended by them but I do find them very tiresome. One of the main reasons as to why I was so reluctant to come out of the closest wasn't because I was ashamed of myself but because I didn't really want to be associated with the stereotypes that are often pushed not only by various forms of media but also many gay and bisexual people themselves.

I'd love to see more gay/bisexual male characters who just happen to be gay or bisexual without a big fuss being made over it. I was very confused by Haurchefant because originally he came across as rather typical for an elezen - albeit more trusting and appreciative towards outsiders. In later patches, however, his 'flirty' side became more apparent - but it sort of felt like it came out of nowhere.

What's interesting is that the developers expressed a reluctance early on towards making marriage available to same-sex pairings. Even though they caved in to the backlash the ceremony itself is quite blatantly designed with a heterosexual couple in mind. It's kind of a shame that they didn't just make up some sort of unique bonding ceremony that wasn't really tied to western ideals. Oh well.

I guess I should stop here because this is becoming lengthier than I intended and I'm rambling.

Ashe · **12-03-2015, 03:36 PM**

(12-03-2015, 03:26 PM)Graeham Wrote: I have to admit - as a guy who is into both genders but vastly prefers guys - the typical stereotypes surrounding gay/bisexual men don't do much for me. I'm not offended by them but I do find them very tiresome. One of the main reasons as to why I was so reluctant to come out of the closest wasn't because I was ashamed of myself but because I didn't really want to be associated with the stereotypes that are often pushed not only by various forms of media but also many gay and bisexual people themselves.

I'd love to see more gay/bisexual male characters who just happen to be gay or bisexual without a big fuss being made over it. I was very confused by Haurchefant because originally he came across as rather typical for an elezen - albeit more trusting and appreciative towards outsiders. In later patches, however, his 'flirty' side became more apparent - but it sort of felt like it came out of nowhere.

What's interesting is that the developers expressed a reluctance early on towards making marriage available to same-sex pairings. Even though they caved in to the backlash the ceremony itself is quite blatantly designed with a heterosexual couple in mind. It's kind of a shame that they didn't just make up some sort of unique bonding ceremony that wasn't really tied to western ideals. Oh well.

I guess I should stop here because this is becoming lengthier than I intended and I'm rambling.

Well, I wouldn't call Haurchefant gay...I guess bi if you played a male character but either way he would sound like he's sexually harassing your character regardless of their gender.Â
In 2.3 I nearly died laughing at how crazy he was...but I can see the confusion?Â

I am bisexual and female, mostly into females. I will agree that it is more tiresome.Â

I wouldn't call Haurchefant's behavior gay/straight/bi..whatever inbetween. It had nothing to do with his sexuality. If you played a female character, it would be a man sexually harassing a woman...

In either case, if you don't understand this character type...he would be pretty darn creepy.

ADAPTATION INTO ENGLISH IS HARD GUYS.
SERIOUSLY
IT IS.
It's my job...and sometimes you just gotta do things.

Kage · **12-03-2015, 06:00 PM**

(12-03-2015, 03:26 PM)Graeham Wrote: I'd love to see more gay/bisexual male characters who just happen to be gay or bisexual without a big fuss being made over it. I was very confused by Haurchefant because originally he came across as rather typical for an elezen - albeit more trusting and appreciative towards outsiders. In later patches, however, his 'flirty' side became more apparent - but it sort of felt like it came out of nowhere.

So, your original is actually how the localization team went 'behind' Yoshi-P's back to change it. His newer, 'flirty', side was them trying to gradually bring him to how he is.

Would you have preferred 2.0 Haurchefant or the fullblown flirt bordering on creep?

Valence · **12-04-2015, 07:24 AM**

Personally, whatever works. But I think what they did was badly done as it removed the only side that gave the character flavour and depth.

In the 2.0 version, he seems just flat and two-dimensional, like the average non important NPC you will only see once in your life.

Kellach Woods · **12-04-2015, 08:04 AM**

(12-03-2015, 03:36 PM)Ashe Wrote: Well, I wouldn't call Haurchefant gay...I guess bi if you played a male character but either way he would sound like he's sexually harassing your character regardless of their gender.Â
In 2.3 I nearly died laughing at how crazy he was...but I can see the confusion?Â

IIRC, and please correct me if I'm wrong but in Japanese pop culture that obsession with muscles is typically seen as a gay trait, no?

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Regarding the Localization of Haurchefant in the EN/FR/DE Versions of FFXIV

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