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Melkire · **03-12-2015, 03:31 PM**

(03-12-2015, 03:26 PM)Gegenji Wrote: Back when I played WoW, the thing I hated most were the guilds that were dead-set on not taking anyone who might possibly be new to an instance. It was the stupid, circular logic of "If you want to run this instance, you have to have run this instance." Even with watching videos and reading strats, you couldn't come unless you had successfully cleared the content you wanted to go on - or had a friend high enough in the hierarchy to get you snuck in.

It's like work in real life!

"Entry level position available.

2+ years of experience required."

-_-

Oscare · **03-12-2015, 03:51 PM**

FC leaders/officers hogging the spotlight.

Yeah. I hate it as much as the next guy. There have been countless times in WoW where I dropped out of guilds because it was basically, as Verad put it, The Adventures Of [Insert MMO's term for guild] Leader feat. Everyone else.

Attitude and behavior.

Simply put, if I'm going to be around a group that I try to dedicated/represent, I don't like being around people I'm going to clash with aggressively. Usually if they're reserved, I just keep myself reserved and dodge them. But if it becomes a repeating theme, I won't stand for it. And behavior -- no weird stuff. x_x Sexual jokes/themes are fine. Plain out predatory/harassment is not.

Ha'uruh Nunh · **03-12-2015, 03:54 PM**

Web-based applications and/or mandatory/heavily promoted forum stuff. Â Some of us can't be on the Internet save for at home, and if I'm at home, I'm probably in-game or will be soon. Â I'm envious of you people with jobs that facilitate forum/web-browsing all day.

Voice chat cliques. Â There rapidly becomes a silent FC/LS while the leaders/popular kids yuk it up on voice chat. Â Silent FCs are toxic, and it's a problem that gets worse over time.

ArmachiA · **03-12-2015, 04:32 PM**

Okay thinking on it this is what I wouldn't like:

Required Voice Chat: I actually loath getting on mumble/Teamspeak when we aren't doing anything. Like... why am I there? I want to play my music or watch my TV. Back in Aion, I actually did join another FC and required voice chat. I hated that I had to be in there Every. Single. Day. I love people getting on voice and being unafraid to USE voice during PvE - it's so much easier to do mechanics and call out things in voice chat - but other than that? Not so much. In my FC, I'll pop in every now and again, but I'm not really in Mumble all the time nor do I really want to be.

No Story Direction: I am not one for just doing Social RP. Going to bars and talking about your life story has it's place, but after a few months I get really really bored with just pretending to be a social butterfly (Or just starting fights if my character isn't very nice). I call it Soap Opera RP - mostly social drama. Which is fine, but not all the time. I'm used to Table Top RP - where there's always a dragon to kill or some princess to save, and that's what I enjoy. An overarching plotline. I like big stories. Garleans, and Voidsent, and Dangerous happens, and unexplored ruins, Necromancy going wrong, bombs! Too much "We're going to the bar again" and I think I would be turned off, However on the flip side:

Too Scripted: If an FC likes to run their RP like it's a PLAY - planning everything out (Beginning, Middle, and End) meticulously with no wiggle room that's really, really boring. When I first got into WoW and I wasn't sure I was going to be playing full time, I got into an RP guild to have a look around. The lead of the FC told me what my character was and exactly what I was doing there, and any plot points were already planned. I was pretty floored. I didn't realize this was thing. All plots were scripted ahead of time, with his friends being the heros and anyone else in the guild taking a back seat. No, if you want to write a scripted scenario - write a book. You'll be better for it.

Doesn't Follow Lore: Obviously.

Has too many people who are overly powerful: I understand the want to play a super powerful character, I do, I'm just not looking for that myself.

Doesn't Raid: I need both RP and Endgame in my game life, I'd get bored of both if I did one too much. I actually consider myself medium rp/mediums progression. This can be waved if games have a way to facilitate outside guild statics (FFXIV has LS's for example)

No Forum/Dead Forum: I actually love going to websites and posting! I'm really social, and it's a good way to be active when you aren't on the game.

Too Big: I like around 40-50 people... I think over 100 active would be too many...

Too Social - I actually don't mind a little down time in my game life. Sometimes I want to get on the game and not speak, so I actually don't mind if I get on and there's only 2 or 3 people on... or if there's a lull in FC chat. I like quiet as much as noise, though too much quiet is bad - I also find too much noise overwhelming. My FC actually is really really active (especially in the OOC LS we have so people from other guilds can see it) and while I'm social, I find it overwhelming at times and there are days when I just want to chill out and farm toadskins, man.

Disclaimer: This is my own personal preference and really has nothing to do with how my FC is ran.

FreelanceWizard · **03-12-2015, 04:47 PM**

Pretty much the only two deal-breakers for me in an FC are required voice chat and the lack of an IC channel. Since I try to keep my RL and my in-game personas separate (hell, I've been told I apparently keep my forum and in-game personas separate, though that's not intentional Smile

), I'm not a fan of voice chat. Now, sure, if I'm comfortable with people, I don't mind doing it for raiding, but I don't want to be told, "To join us you must have voice chat and you must use it regularly."

The IC channel, for me, ties back to how much I like running instances and doing stuff out in the world. With an IC channel, I can RP even when my character is out and about -- and I can RP about things that are happening in game, such as the insane ninja who keeps leaping in front of giant monsters or the excellent healer who's on the front lines of a battle. I can even use the channel to invite people to meet up ICly and get to know people when they're up to something in the game. Since I get so much use out of IC channels, I don't have a strong interest in joining a group that doesn't have one.

Mikh'a · **03-12-2015, 05:06 PM**

I'm really not a fan of shout advertisements, personally. ._. If I see one in shout I just nod and smile but generally nope away from it. I wasn't even a fan of channel advertising on WoW and tried to avoid it. I'm also not a fan of strict stories with no room for deviation or personal plots. If your FC revolves solely around the leader and everyone else is just a bit character in their personal story it's just no fun.

Otherwise I can't think of anything off the top of my head. I'll usually try anything for a little while, who knows maybe it'll fit and maybe it won't. (( Insert twelve year old boy giggles here. )) If it doesn't fit I'll just move on~

Ette · **03-12-2015, 05:14 PM**

I'm a picky little jerk! But I'll try to narrow it down.

Required Voice Chat/Popular Voice Chat. Everyone has kinda covered this one.

Too many people/Too little people. Â A small group of maybe 10 people is a bit too tiny for myliking. Thereâ€™s a comfort in knowing that if someone people need to spend time away the guild isnâ€™t going to die. However, Iâ€™d also like not actually know and play with everyone in my guild. I think around 25/30 tops is a pretty ideal size.

Oversexed OOC ChatÂ Either you have no idea what Iâ€™m talking about or knowexactly what Iâ€™m talking about with this one. Listen, man, I like a good dong joke as much as the next person. I like to objectively discuss sexuality as much as the next person. What I donâ€™t like is feeling as if to be liked/get RP I have to constantly sell my character based on sexual attributes and sexual availability. If the content of chat slowly degrades into â€œhaha and then what (;â€ . . . Nah, son. Iâ€™m done. Iâ€™m out.

Hands Off Leadership/Lack of player proactivity Thereâ€™s nothing inherently wrong with hands off leadership. However,it does mean that the players have to make a concerted effort to stay active. If people arenâ€™t reaching out to one another to RP AND the leaders arenâ€™t doing anything to keep things active then thereâ€™s not much reason to stay.

Too Loose of an Application Process If your friendâ€™s RP partnerâ€™s sisterâ€™s LS mate can getinto the guild on referral alone Iâ€™ll probably give the group a hard side eye. As I mostly join RP FCs and the like I think itâ€™s incredibly important that a character and player can fit the general feel of things. Apps are a great way to do this, in my opinion.

It Has A Cool Kids Club I understand that cliques will form anywhere. In fact, Ithink people are really quick to holler ITâ€™S A CLIQUE when they see a group who RP together consistently. I donâ€™t mind that. What I do mind is when theyâ€™re given allthe plot and make no effort to involve other people. If there are other players striving to be a part of things then they should get some spotlight, too.

Edvyn · **03-12-2015, 05:45 PM**

Ed's List of Bad FC Things

* hugboxing - if i wanted to go to a place where everyone is really nice to everyone for no reason and nothing that could cause anyone a minor inconvenience is allowed, i'd sit in my local preschool shortly before getting thrown out and/or questioned by the cops due to being an adult. these kinds of environments tend to enable and in many cases encourage attention whores who demand sympathy for the most trivial of things. "hugbox" is sometimes made semi-literal when weirdos start emoting ~huggles u~ in the FC chat.

* unfunniness - please send the fucking lolrandom bacon/cookies/pie shit back to 2007 where it belongs. doge was never funny and never will be funny. internet jokes have a shelf life and you've forced the humour equivalent of food poisoning upon everyone. despicable people like you ruined the portal series (you'd technically have ruined skyrim too if it wasn't already a terrible game).

[Image: 1622830_598798173542645_141490277_n.png]

[Image: 1622830_598798173542645_141490277_n.png]

* USI - Unwarranted Self-Importance is a life-destroying condition that pervades roleplaying communities everywhere. if the officers are egotistical pricks, they're essentially going to be neckbeard caligula. any place that basically functions as a clinic for head-up-arse surgery is a place im either going to avoid or laugh at.

Hyakki · **03-12-2015, 06:11 PM**

~*huggles teh Ed n givz bacon cookiez ^_^*~

Aysun · **03-12-2015, 06:19 PM**

(03-12-2015, 04:47 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: The IC channel, for me, ties back to how much I like running instances and doing stuff out in the world. With an IC channel, I can RP even when my character is out and about -- and I can RP about things that are happening in game, such as the insane ninja who keeps leaping in front of giant monsters or the excellent healer who's on the front lines of a battle. I can even use the channel to invite people to meet up ICly and get to know people when they're up to something in the game. Since I get so much use out of IC channels, I don't have a strong interest in joining a group that doesn't have one.

My kingdom for an active IC channel.

Parvacake · **03-12-2015, 06:23 PM**

It's been said a few times but will totes also agree with it...

Required voice chat.

I was in a guild a while back where a majority of the 'core' group were in TS almost all the time. Which was fine, they were having fun and that's what mattered! What was NOT fine was how they'd disregard FC chat and their other channels that a number of the other members preferred to use. They'd miss when people would ask for help with runs, general questions, ask for RP, etc. It drove a number of people away and especially in the last few years it's been one of the more common complaints I've heard about with guilds.

Telluride · **03-12-2015, 07:04 PM**

(03-12-2015, 06:19 PM)Aysun Wrote:
(03-12-2015, 04:47 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: The IC channel, for me, ties back to how much I like running instances and doing stuff out in the world. With an IC channel, I can RP even when my character is out and about -- and I can RP about things that are happening in game, such as the insane ninja who keeps leaping in front of giant monsters or the excellent healer who's on the front lines of a battle. I can even use the channel to invite people to meet up ICly and get to know people when they're up to something in the game. Since I get so much use out of IC channels, I don't have a strong interest in joining a group that doesn't have one.

My kingdom for an active IC channel.

I support this with as many percentage points as I'm allowed. I will put up with a lot of silly, doofy things from a group for a good IC channel.

Knight Kat · **03-12-2015, 09:31 PM**

(03-12-2015, 02:29 PM)Verad Wrote: I strongly dislike when the leader of an RP FC has both an OOC and IC position of authority.*Â

I've often found that in other MMOs, such guilds lend themselves towards cults of personality and the encouraging of abusive and predatory behavior on the part of the leader. Often, people join the FC on the strength of their roleplay with the leader without considering whether the rest of the FC will be as entertaining, and it encourages plots to be about The Adventures of FC Leader and Supporting Cast.

None of the above is universally true, of course, but I've seen it happen enough, especially within the "House RP" community of World of Warcraft, that I am leery of any FC with a history describing how so-and-so leader is central to the foundations of the group.

*Disclaimer - Dubious Distributions positions Verad and myself as the OOC and IC authority within the FC. I am extremelyÂ uncomfortable with this position and fight it by mocking his actual level of authority over anybody in the FC whenever possible. Take that for what you will.

So, this following question is not only aimed at Verad, but anyone who also shares this opinion. I ask because this legitimately concerns me.

How does one truly run an FC where the OOC leader's character is not the IC leader? Or, where the IC leading character has no OOC authority?

Maybe I misunderstood here, but I am thinking about this, and I can't see an answer. For example, if I am an OOC leader, and Kiht is not IC leader, I will still have to closely coordinate and manage with whoever is the IC leader. This will give the person who plays the IC leader a sort of position of authority on an OOC level as well. How can the two be separated in a way that make the FC still function?

How my FC is currently run is Kiht and Khloe co-lead the FC together. But we are also co-leaders on an OOC level. In the instance we ever dead-lock on a decision, we would bring in a senior member as a tie-breaker, or call for an FC vote.

It has worked well so far, but the FC is just over two months old, and still small.

Harmonixer · **03-12-2015, 10:48 PM**

So, Verad and Edvyn mentioned the two-ish things that are my personal red flags in FC's and Guilds.

In particular, egocults are the single most rage inducing parts of playing online games with people. I have no need to name names, people know who these figures are and if you read this going 'shit, is he talking about me?' No, it's not you. Hopefully. Most people who run an egocult aren't aware they are dickheads because they are only focused on themselves and their own personal gains.

It's especially irritating when people just let it happen, because they are unwilling to speak up on the issue.

We have been gifted with minds that can constantly expand, and grow. Being shy is one thing, but to let yourself be stepped on by someone who has collected a group of 'weaker willed' individuals under the guise of 'reaching glory is' rage inducing for me.

House RP bothers me, I've yet to see it done well. The time that I thought it was good, was because I was part of the problem. I wasn't aware until I took a step back. It was just another egocult, and I was a favorite.

I personally feel that groups that think together as a unit, and bounce ideas off one another are the most fun to be around and tend to be the most successful. The willingness to change and adapt and openly discuss problems like drama and the like stand the test of time. One person running the show with a list of favorites is a disaster and I hope to avoid it at all costs.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Edvyn refers to something in particular that I see in nearly all RP groups that absolutely drives me insane.

'hugboxing'

They put it so perfectly. The ~huggles u~ and *bites everyone in fc! ^o^* thing makes me wish violence upon their existence. I realize that a lot of my friends do it, and I've kindly kept my trap shut on the subject but I am compelled to speak on it now.

It is a strange pet peeve, but it makes me think of being on AOL/Yahoo chatrooms. Passing out cookies of luv! and everything related to is a surefire way for me to lose interest in anything being said. It's used for flirting, shitty passive aggressive comments and trying desperately to be cute ^_^ when you are in fact just being insufferable and the opposite of what you probably intend.

I think emotes are fine, faces, whatever. It's part of our communication, expressions. But so are accurately conveying your feelings through the wonder of the wÌ¶rÌ¶iÌ¶tÌ¶tÌ¶eÌ¶nÌ¶ typed word.

And sometimes, a funny entry here and there is welcome. But if another catgirl 'tee hee licks teh FC! *0*' I'm going to lose my shit.

But really, I still like most everyone I've encountered so far and if I've dealt with the hugboxing(stealing it, I'm sorry Edvyn) this long, I'll put up with it longer.

I'm sure I'm not always pleasant to be around. I promise I will be if you fucking stop though!

Egocults however, I will not stand for. Never again.

Maia · **03-12-2015, 11:14 PM**

(03-12-2015, 09:31 PM)Knight Kat Wrote: So, this following question is not only aimed at Verad, but anyone who also shares this opinion. I ask because this legitimately concerns me.

How does one truly run an FC where the OOC leader's character is not the IC leader? Or, where the IC leading character has no OOC authority?

Maybe I misunderstood here, but I am thinking about this, and I can't see an answer. For example, if I am an OOC leader, and Kiht is not IC leader, I will still have to closely coordinate and manage with whoever is the IC leader. This will give the person who plays the IC leader a sort of position of authority on an OOC level as well. How can the two be separated in a way that make the FC still function?

How my FC is currently run is Kiht and Khloe co-lead the FC together. But we are also co-leaders on an OOC level. In the instance we ever dead-lock on a decision, we would bring in a senior member as a tie-breaker, or call for an FC vote.

It has worked well so far, but the FC is just over two months old, and still small.

I had the same wonder/concern, Kiht, but after I reviewed it with others, I think the idea being presented is more an aversion to the "egocult" that stems from one person having too much IC + OoC power. But Verad also mentioned that while this is a tendency he's seen often, it isn't universally true. There're just some bad eggs out there who have made an unfortunate stereotype of running things both IC and OoC for their own benefit, as opposed to the benefit of the Guild.

But I feel that in our instance, (assuming that we are similar?) we utilize the IC authority as a vehicle to bring power and entertainment to everyone else, as opposed to relegating others to the status of NPC while your character is clearly the Main Hero.

I use Maia to conduct and run one RP event per week, to post IC information and bulletins on our bulletin board, to delegate tasks to others via personalized IC Moogle Mail, and to coordinate and run our monthly public event. It's a lot of OoC work, and I can't imagine another person in the LS taking up the mantle and doing all of that over a concept that isn't even their own, haha. Sometimes it even feels like she's just "leader NPC" rather than an actual character, just because I use her to instigate interesting things for others more than explore her personal whatever. On top of that, she was initially elected quite unwittingly and without any prompting from me OoCly or ICly - I was oddly surprised at the time.

I could be totally off the mark, but that's what I've come to understand after some thought and discussion on my end of things.

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RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes