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Kellach Woods · **12-21-2014, 04:48 PM**

Also, might still be a work in progress. As in - this is what they're generally going to look like (please look forward to it) but there'll be mini changes throughout.

Like, did we actually see anything in-game Au Ra related?

Naunet · **12-21-2014, 04:49 PM**

(12-21-2014, 04:44 PM)Edgar Wrote: I find this to be a much more valid argument than "Fuck SE because they're lazy in general."

Not actually what I said.

RE: the impact of Au Ra - A character's appearance is just as important, if perhaps not moreso, than game play. It's perfectly legitimate to be disappointed in seeing yet again the "aggressive male/beautiful and mysterious female" trope played out.

Also, this is a thread discussing the Au Ra, so... of course we're going to talk about the Au Ra.

Ashren Dotharl · **12-21-2014, 04:51 PM**

Here is the problem, no matter how much you want to say that the Au Ra are just <insert race> with horns and scales, they aren't. That is just your own personal bias because you don't like the end result that was released, and that is fine. SE can't please everyone, and not everyone is going to like everything. I personally dislike Roegadyn and would never play one, but I'd also never say that they were lazy design because they're just Hyur with bigger muscles and larger size.

If nothing else, it is very obvious that the models for their faces are vastly different from those of the Miqo'te and Hyur (Midlander), and the only difference as far as effort and detail go between the Male and Female are that the Males have scales on their face (which was likely intended to replace or represent facial hair).

Sitting here and trying to say that their design is lazy is just plain bullshit, and I have no expectations that you will admit to that so don't bother trying to justify yourself to me. The fact of that is this, the people coming in here to complain about the race are just unhappy that they didn't get what they wanted. If you don't like the race that is entirely your right not to, but don't sit here and try to say that the race is shit or lazy or whatever else just because it doesn't fit what YOU wanted.

The race is fine how it is, some will like it, some won't. The same can be said for literally every other race in the game.

Naunet · **12-21-2014, 04:59 PM**

There is no need to get so hostile.

I think trying to equate dissatisfaction with the Au Ra as the same as calling Roegadyn "hyur with bigger muscles" is rather disingenuous. First of all, it's not the Au Ra in general that most people are critiquing - it's the differences displayed in the males versus the females. The Roegadyn have a distinctive musculature to them, as well as very different face shapes, and male and female roegadyn clearlyÂ share a common aesthetic. They are an example of it done right. They're obviously the same race.

The same cannot be said for male and female Au Ra. The females are so delicate compared to the males that they look like nearly completely different races. The disappointment comes from how this is a pattern that is played out to a tired degree in so manyÂ video games. Why not maintain the aggressive, near-beastial aesthetic of the males in the women as well? They could still be quite beautiful, but in a way that would be in-keeping with the themes established by the males. (Or, y'know, they could go the other way around and have waif-like males.)

Instead they made a female that looks extremely human, but with horns and a tail, with a few barely visible scales. The design paradigm is jarringly different.

Tiergan · **12-21-2014, 05:03 PM**

So ...you're free to say that you like the design, but everyone else isn't allowed to say they personally feel it's lazy and don't like it?

I haven't read most of this thread, so I don't know if anyone was actively trying to silence you for liking them or not - but everyone here's allowed to feel how they want. You are allowed to enjoy them and feel the design isn't lazy. Other people are allowed to feel bothered by the way the males look vs the females. I'm allowed to think the females look boring as all hell. And we're all also allowed to debate with each other in a civil manner about those feelings, even if we disagree.

You don't feel the design is lazy, you might even really like and that's fine. I can respect that. Hell, I main a cat boy - I can't exactly sit and say that I am playing a race that is the paragon of originality instead of straight up fan-service material. I also really like the look of the male Au Ra. but let's not use that as an excuse to be flat at rude and call people's opinions 'bullshit'.

Atoli · **12-21-2014, 05:08 PM**

I like to see it much as how it works in real life. Humans come in all shapes and sizes and seeing a woman wih a waifish body as opposed to a man with rippling muscles really isn't unordinary. Likewise, women naturally develop less body hair than men, so I find it fair that reptilian-eske human females have less scales than males. To be honest, the demorphism really isn't that bad at all, and I might dare to say its a bit overly dramatic to call it such at this point in time. I would consider real demorphism being, say... the difference in World of Warcraft races. The difference within Tauren, Trolls, maybe even Draenei considering how despite being the same race they have radically different spines and skeletal structures. That being said, I'm worried Au Ra might look too repetative with how many fleshy hyur-like races are going to be playable.

Ashren Dotharl · **12-21-2014, 05:30 PM**

(12-21-2014, 05:03 PM)Tiergan Wrote: So ...you're free to say that you like the design, but everyone else isn't allowed to say they personally feel it's lazy and don't like it?

I haven't read most of this thread, so I don't know if anyone was actively trying to silence you for liking them or not - but everyone here's allowed to feel how they want. Â You are allowed to enjoy them and feel the design isn't lazy. Â Other people are allowed to feel bothered by the way the males look vs the females. Â I'm allowed to think the females look boring as all hell. Â And we're all also allowed to debate with each other in a civil manner about those feelings, even if we disagree.

You don't feel the design is lazy, you might even really like and that's fine. Â I can respect that. Â Hell, I main a cat boy - I can't exactly sit and say that I am playing a race that is the paragon of originality instead of straight up fan-service material. Â I also really like the look of the male Au Ra. but let's not use that as an excuse to be flat at rude and call people's opinions 'bullshit'.

It's not anyone's opinion I am calling bullshit, as I said you're entitled to not like them, but how would you feel if I said I didn't like your character's history compared to mine and that made your story intrinsically lazy? It's an accusatory term, and one not fitting for what I think you (or others) are trying to convey. The race isn't lazily designed, it just doesn't fit your liking.

I also personally feel that this whole argument about sexual dimorphism is the stupidest thing I've read in this community since that time someone came on here to accuse everyone who played a Lalafell of being a pedophile because of Momodi's dialogue.

Oli! · **12-21-2014, 05:32 PM**

Oh god what did I start

Zyrusticae · **12-21-2014, 05:35 PM**

No, it's totally lazily designed. Come on, who are you fooling?

Throwing on some scale patches and horns is the barest minimum of effort for a new 'race'. If my backstory consists of a few summary sentences that go over the most obvious and mundane details of my character's life you would be WELL within your rights to critique me for it. As far as I'm concerned, the Au Ra are not far removed from that level of effort.

Edit: For the record, I was really hoping for something more like this:
[Image: yugiriside.png]

Or this:

Ashren Dotharl · **12-21-2014, 05:43 PM**

(12-21-2014, 05:35 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: No, it's totally lazily designed. Come on, who are you fooling?

Throwing on some scale patches and horns is the barest minimum of effort for a new 'race'. If my backstory consists of a few summary sentences that go over the most obvious and mundane details of my character's life you would be WELL within your rights to critique me for it. As far as I'm concerned, the Au Ra are not far removed from that level of effort.

Edit: For the record, I was really hoping for something more like this:

Or this:

10/10 would not play this. 10/10 will play the Au Ra we got.

Flickering Ember · **12-21-2014, 05:45 PM**

(12-21-2014, 04:44 PM)Edgar Wrote:
(12-21-2014, 04:33 PM)Tiergan Wrote: My thing is - concept artists are always thinking about silhouette. Â It's important because you want people to be able to look at a character at a glance and instantly know what they are. Â A lot of times, some concept artists will even start concepting creatures by drawing out a silhouette first and then designing on top of it.

If we made silhouettes of all the different races, most of them would be pretty easily distinguishable ...except maybe miqo'te and midlanders if we cropped off the cat ears and tails. Â They tried to make up for it by giving them noticeably larger, cat-like eyes, a slightly different facial structure from midders - (or a very different facial structure if you have the older male miqo'te nunh face). Â If you put a hyur midder and a miqo'te side by side, you can visibly see the differences in their faces.

What we've seen of female Au Ra doesn't really do that. The silhouette just reads "female midlander with horns and tail". Â Their faces just have a few scales tacked on, but overall look like midlanders or like they're trying to squeeze the features in somewhere between midlander and miqo'te.

At the end of the day, I'm not really going to lose any sleep over it - but it's very hard to argue that the same level of work in making the male Au Ra unique went into the females too.

I find this to be a much more valid argument than "Fuck SE because they're lazy in general."

I find that I won't be losing any sleep, either. Just another change to FFXIV that for some reason, despite its utter insignificance in comparison to every other change, gets the most attention for the stupidest reasons. Â Au Ra will not be changing gameplay in the slightest, people. It's the 3 new classes they just announced, new flying mounts, and new mechanics centered around flying that will.

Gameplay isn't the only feature people care about though, especially in a roleplaying community like this one. Character creation and customization is not only important on an OOC level where people take time and effort to make an image that either represents them or an idea, but it is also important on an IC level where the looks, lore, and bearing of a race and character place a direct impact on RP.

My character, a large muscular woman who loves hugs and talks like Tarzan, would be perceived completely different if she was a hyur woman. The more unique the races are the more flexible a lot of our RP concepts can be.Â

I didn't want a carbon copy of a roegadyn, honestly, but I was hoping for something a little more dragon-like and a little less waifish. Because I am disappointed, I won't be fantasia-ing my alt like I planned. It doesn't impact my gameplay but it does impact my RP which does impact my fun. (Because we RP for fun, right?)

Clover · **12-21-2014, 06:05 PM**

I don't know, the way people talk about this new race doesn't sound like mere personal opinions. Not liking it is a thing, but saying that SE is lazyÂ or did a bad job with the design, or implying that people who roll this race don't deserve RP attention is a bit... harsh?

I mean, IÂ personally find it very beautiful, not lazy at all. SE hasn't been lazy about anything they do anyway.Â Also, I will definitely be RPing a character, and I don't see whyÂ anyone doing the same shouldÂ have to feelÂ guiltyÂ about it. Can't we all agree that a design is obviously not going to appeal to everyone, which doesn't mean thatÂ the design itself isÂ bad? By saying that SE did a bad job with it, you're discarding the opinion of all the people who do like it (X_X)

Ashren Dotharl · **12-21-2014, 06:06 PM**

(12-21-2014, 06:05 PM)Clover Wrote: I don't know, the way people talk about this new race doesn't sound like mere personal opinions. Not liking it is a thing, but saying that SE is lazyÂ or did a bad job with the design, or implying that people who roll this race don't deserve RP attention is a bit... harsh?

I mean, IÂ personally find it very beautiful, not lazy at all. SE hasn't been lazy about anything they do anyway.Â Also, I will definitely be RPing a character, and I don't see whyÂ anyone doing the same shouldÂ have to feelÂ guiltyÂ about it. Can't we all agree that a design is obviously not going to appeal to everyone, which doesn't mean thatÂ the design itselfÂ bad? By saying that SE did a bad job with the design, you're discarding the opinion of all the people who do like it (X_X)

I seriously could not agree with this statement more.

Edgar · **12-21-2014, 06:19 PM**

(12-21-2014, 06:06 PM)Ashren Snow Wrote:
(12-21-2014, 06:05 PM)Clover Wrote: I don't know, the way people talk about this new race doesn't sound like mere personal opinions. Not liking it is a thing, but saying that SE is lazyÂ or did a bad job with the design, or implying that people who roll this race don't deserve RP attention is a bit... harsh?

I mean, IÂ personally find it very beautiful, not lazy at all. SE hasn't been lazy about anything they do anyway.Â Also, I will definitely be RPing a character, and I don't see whyÂ anyone doing the same shouldÂ have to feelÂ guiltyÂ about it. Can't we all agree that a design is obviously not going to appeal to everyone, which doesn't mean thatÂ the design itselfÂ bad? By saying that SE did a bad job with the design, you're discarding the opinion of all the people who do like it (X_X)
I seriously could not agree with this statement more.

Seconded.

Kellach Woods · **12-21-2014, 06:21 PM**

Hell if you ask me Miqo's should never have been made.

Still RP with 'em tho.

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Thoughts on the Au Ra?

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