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Warren Castille · **09-24-2014, 08:21 AM**

I could have sworn I read somewhere that all of the folks affiliated with Minfillia have the Echo to some degree, its just that the gift manifests in different ways. The PC just happens to get the superpower lottery grand prize in that they gain everything.

Aduu Avagnar · **09-24-2014, 09:02 AM**

Sounsy, one point on the Gladiators part of your, I must add, amazing post.

A Gladiator (when refering to someone that fights in the bloodsands) is as you say, anyone fighting there, for whatever reason.

A member of the Gladiators Guild, is trained in the arts of using a sword.

Kage · **09-24-2014, 10:29 AM**

I'm so adamant on knowing once and for all about the Echo and the Scions, etc. I asked in /r/ffxiv about it on their lore side thread and someone told me that really right now we only know of PC, Minfillia and... well... the Archon.

Lillith Cale · **09-24-2014, 10:44 AM**

Reading up on all the talk about this thread has really got me thinking about the Echo myself, and more specifically, the blessing that keeps a character from being tempered.

I haven't gotten to writing about it on the wiki (because life) but Lillith was conscripted into the group that went to fight Leviathan. I did this because I wanted a major event to happen to Lillith that would change her outlook on certain things about life and I figured facing off against a primal would, you know, kinda get one thinking about things. Now, in the story line, there is mention of gathering a group to undertake this fight, and I believe the Company of Heros went up again leviathan Levibeetus, beat him themselves and avoided being tempered.

So, my question then is this: Based on everything we've been talking about here, is it bunk to say Levi just didn't try to temper anyone during that fight? Or, could it be written that because the seven other people in the fight were in the presence of Hyadelyn's chosen, they receivedÂ a sort of blanket protection?

Sorry if the question is a bit off topic!

Warren Castille · **09-24-2014, 10:54 AM**

(09-24-2014, 10:44 AM)Lillith Cale Wrote: So, my question then is this: Based on everything we've been talking about here, is it bunk to say Levi just didn't try to temper anyone during that fight? Or, could it be written that because the seven other people in the fight were in the presence of Hyadelyn's chosen, they receivedÂ a sort of blanket protection?

Sorry if the question is a bit off topic!

Yes to all.

We know there's a process for the Drowned and the Tempered and stuff, but I still feel I had something earlier (I know, I know, who's surprised?) when I said that, even if a Primal DIDN'T try to temper mortals right away, as soon as they thought they might lose the fight they would resort to it as a last-ditch effort.

I can't begin to pretend I know how a primal would think, but imagine you're Leviathan. You're king of the ocean, scourge to all land-dwellers. Some smoothskins on a boat (on a BOAT!) sail up to you and start shooting you. Being your magnificent self, you play with them, but they don't die. You summon some bros from the deeps and... They get killed. Smoothskins don't die. You knock the boat around. They don't die.

You bite one in HALF and they refuse to die. You unleash your power in Tidal Wave, TWICE maybe, and THEY. DON'T. DIE.

Do you just take it? Ifrit outright says "Thou art strong, mortal!" when Inferno doesn't turn you to ashes. I imagine if he didn't already know Tempering would fail, he'd be mashing that button to charm, because HOLY HELL, YOU JUST USED YOUR LIMIT BREAK AND THEY'RE STILL STANDING, THEY'RE ALL STILL STANDING.

tl;dr: Primals would attempt to temper before dying to a lesser species. As for someone else's Echo working to block someone without it... Well, it doesn't really work out for anybody during the Ifrit story scene.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **09-24-2014, 10:58 AM**

(09-24-2014, 10:44 AM)Lillith Cale Wrote: Reading up on all the talk about this thread has really got me thinking about the Echo myself, and more specifically, the blessing that keeps a character from being tempered.

I haven't gotten to writing about it on the wiki (because life) but Lillith was conscripted into the group that went to fight Leviathan. I did this because I wanted a major event to happen to Lillith that would change her outlook on certain things about life and I figured facing off against a primal would, you know, kinda get one thinking about things. Now, in the story line, there is mention of gathering a group to undertake this fight, and I believe the Company of Heros went up again leviathan Levibeetus, beat him themselves and avoided being tempered.

So, my question then is this: Based on everything we've been talking about here, is it bunk to say Levi just didn't try to temper anyone during that fight? Or, could it be written that because the seven other people in the fight were in the presence of Hyadelyn's chosen, they receivedÂ a sort of blanket protection?

Sorry if the question is a bit off topic!

I think it'd be best to say Leviathan didn't try to temper/drown them in particular. (Maybe he just wanted to kill them, didn't feel like it, etc). But if the Echo protected others like a Blanket, then we probably wouldn't have gotten Tam-Tara Hard Mode. (For those that know its story)

CrookedTarot · **09-24-2014, 11:20 AM**

Tarot actually doesn't use a lance, despite his character build and skills being a Lancer. It's actually a quarterstaff that, sadly, I have to play pretend is a quarterstaff for the sake of RP. I don't think Jobs in the sense that we are thinking should limit but rather OPEN possibilities.

My alternate, Ioakim, is not a White Mage in the sense that he is a Padjal's glorious prodigy. He is a White Mage in that he knows powerful healing and conjuring magics that he uses to destroy ancient or cursed artifacts as an Iconoclast.

Zindelo is a Monk but only in as much as he is a dancer that uses his dance moves in combat, which in turn he mixes with aether to create the Monk 'forms' and abilities we know and love.

I see it as a chance to stretch the old RP muscles to come up with something different than 'the inner beast/dragoon/etc' and give us a chance to personalize the game and lore in a way to our taste.

Sounsyy · **09-24-2014, 11:50 AM**

EDIT

(09-24-2014, 09:02 AM)Nakoli Chalahko Wrote: A Gladiator (when refering to someone that fights in the bloodsands) is as you say, anyone fighting there, for whatever reason.

A member of the Gladiators Guild, is trained in the arts of using a sword.

Yes, correct, this. ^
I tried truncating the summaries of each class so they'd only be a few paragraphs instead of a dissertation. So I may have unwittingly left important clarifying details out of some. ^^;

(09-24-2014, 10:44 AM)Lillith Cale Wrote: Now, in the story line, there is mention of gathering a group to undertake this fight, and I believe the Company of Heros went up again leviathan Levibeetus, beat him themselves and avoided being tempered.

So in the MSQ leading up to the Leviathan fight, Grand Marshal Eynzahr Slafyrsyn actually explains that when the Company of Heroes defeated Leviathan in 1562 6AE, they lured the Primal into a shallow inlet, which effectively prevented Leviathan from using any of his deadly abilities, ie Tidus Wave Tidal Wave. It is not explicitly stated, however I infer, that this strategy also prevented or limited Leviathan's ability to temper said Company of Heroes.

From the Sahagin Beast Tribe quests, we get a snippet that Leviathan's tempering process is called "Drowning" and that it occurs when a person is submerged in Leviathan's spray or from waters tainted/blessed by Leviathan. (ie the waters around the Sapsa Spawning Grounds.)

Now taking this info and applying it to the in-game Leviathan fight, I imagine there are two instances in which the Player Character, were it possible to be tempered, would become tempered. 1) The Player Character falls off the boat and into the water. 2) During Leviathan's Tidal Wave limit break. However, because the whole point of the aetheryte-laden, double boat dingy is to dampen Leviathan's magic and control over the sea, I theorize that the same shield that saves your life from Tidal Wave may also prevent a laymen from being tempered. Possibly. Maybe. Just go with it.

Lillith Cale · **09-24-2014, 12:12 PM**

Everyone has brought some fantastic thoughts and tidbits to table of this particular discussion. Though, I thought Tam-tam HM was the result of Edda just going nutters and opening herself up to scary dark evil thingies?

I'd like to keep it that Lillith was able to face the primal and not get tempered, but it seems like a difficult thing to explain anyway pretty solidly with all information provided. Now I'm wondering if perhaps I should have her life views change from a different event, though the only other fight that was equally has hard for meÂ ingame wise wasÂ t5. Hrm.

This leads me to another question however. Is it possible to have Hydaelyn's blessing to resist being tempered and NOT possess the echo?

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **09-24-2014, 12:32 PM**

(09-24-2014, 12:12 PM)Lillith Cale Wrote: Everyone has brought some fantastic thoughts and tidbits to table of this particular discussion. Though, I thought Tam-tam HM was the result of Edda just going nutters and opening herself up to scary dark evil thingies?

The cutscenes had led me to believe they were in the Tam-Tara Deepcroft at the same time as our Echo-enabled player characters. If such a protective blanket had existed, then a certain NPC that died shouldn't have. ...that's what I was going for.

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