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FreelanceWizard · **10-25-2014, 12:52 AM**

All, please stick to the topic and drop the personal attacks. It's a totally reasonable discussion to talk about similarity between Doma and other cultures based on the lore. It's not okay to start throwing out epithets.

I've handed out some warnings. If the thread continues down this path, I'm going to have to lock it.

#magicAdminHat

Sounsyy · **10-25-2014, 01:02 AM**

This is getting out of hand.

Personal opinions and hipsterisms aside. If you want to roleplay as a Thavnairian, Doman, or Far Eastern native, go for it. There is not a wealth of lore on the Far East, but there is some. And there is more coming this Tuesday. (There's literally a Ninja quest called "Once Upon a Time in Doma.")

Also discouraging people on this forum from roleplaying a character that they would enjoy playing on the basis that there isn't a wealth of lore detailing every aspect of Far Eastern culture is absolutely preposterous. Especially considering there's a large population of roleplayers in game and on the RPC who have but the barest, cursory knowledge of the lore surrounding Eorzean city-states like Ul'dah.

We do not shame new players who aren't yet familiar with XIV lore from roleplaying what they want to even though they have very little knowledge about it. Why would you shame an Eastern roleplayer for doing what is essentially the same? There is functionally no difference between a player who has not yet learned the lore, and another player who's character has no lore basis yet. Retconning personal choices made in the early stages of those characters is a reality to both of those player types.

DoomsdayClock · **10-25-2014, 02:04 AM**

(10-25-2014, 01:02 AM)Sounsyy Wrote: This is getting out of hand.

Personal opinions and hipsterisms aside. If you want to roleplay as a Thavnairian, Doman, or Far Eastern native, go for it. There is not a wealth of lore on the Far East, but there is some. And there is more coming this Tuesday. (There's literally a Ninja quest called "Once Upon a Time in Doma.")

Also discouraging people on this forum from roleplaying a character that they would enjoy playing on the basis that there isn't a wealth of lore detailing every aspect of Far Eastern culture is absolutely preposterous. Especially considering there's a large population of roleplayers in game and on the RPC who have but the barest, cursory knowledge of the lore surrounding Eorzean city-states like Ul'dah.

We do not shame new players who aren't yet familiar with XIV lore from roleplaying what they want to even though they have very little knowledge about it. Why would you shame an Eastern roleplayer for doing what is essentially the same? There is functionally no difference between a player who has not yet learned the lore, and another player who's character has no lore basis yet. Retconning personal choices made in the early stages of those characters is a reality to both of those player types.

I agree 100% with this. And I've gained a ton of friends and Rp since I started with only an extremely small amount of lore knowledge ( read that as NONE )
The point is having fun, and making it work along the way I think. My current alt is being done with almost zero information too, and that's going well.
Then again I also Rp with almost anyone...so I'm probably as open as you can get to content.

Random Encounter · **10-25-2014, 02:07 AM**

Can we keep real life hobbies or whatever you want to call them out of this and stick to the subject, being fictional lands in a game please? Lets try to keep this civil shall we?

On subject, the far east can be a wide majority of things, hell, wouldn't the Garlean Empire itself fit under this vague description? There is a lot more to the "far east" then Doma.

Marisa · **10-25-2014, 02:24 AM**

(10-25-2014, 02:07 AM)Phae Wrote: Can we keep real life hobbies or whatever you want to call them out of this and stick to the subject, being fictional lands in a game please? Lets try to keep this civil shall we?

On subject, the far east can be a wide majority of things, hell, wouldn't the Garlean Empire itself fit under this vague description? There is a lot more to the "far east" then Doma.

I wouldn't exactly call Garlemald "far" east. I mean, the only thing separating the Empire from the Black Shroud is a thin strip of land belonging to Xelphatol (which somehow we still know absolutely nothing about)

Random Encounter · **10-25-2014, 02:30 AM**

(10-25-2014, 02:24 AM)Ryoko Wrote:
(10-25-2014, 02:07 AM)Phae Wrote: Can we keep real life hobbies or whatever you want to call them out of this and stick to the subject, being fictional lands in a game please? Lets try to keep this civil shall we?

On subject, the far east can be a wide majority of things, hell, wouldn't the Garlean Empire itself fit under this vague description? There is a lot more to the "far east" then Doma.

I wouldn't exactly call Garlemald "far" east. I mean, the only thing separating the Empire from the Black Shroud is a thin strip of land belonging to Xelphatol (which somehow we still know absolutely nothing about)

That is true, but until its charted, I would still consider it under that category. The way I see it, the far east would be everything outside of Eorzea. Meaning everything east after Xelphatol (Which we have no idea how big exactly is that strip of land) and Gyn Abinia.

Marisa · **10-25-2014, 02:36 AM**

(10-25-2014, 02:30 AM)Phae Wrote:
(10-25-2014, 02:24 AM)Ryoko Wrote:
(10-25-2014, 02:07 AM)Phae Wrote: Can we keep real life hobbies or whatever you want to call them out of this and stick to the subject, being fictional lands in a game please? Lets try to keep this civil shall we?

On subject, the far east can be a wide majority of things, hell, wouldn't the Garlean Empire itself fit under this vague description? There is a lot more to the "far east" then Doma.

I wouldn't exactly call Garlemald "far" east. I mean, the only thing separating the Empire from the Black Shroud is a thin strip of land belonging to Xelphatol (which somehow we still know absolutely nothing about)

That is true, but until its charted, I would still consider it under that category. The way I see it, the far east would be everything outside of Eorzea. Meaning everything east after Xelphatol (Which we have no idea how big exactly is that strip of land) and Gyn Abinia.

Admittedly it's all semantics, but I'm bored and it's something to talk about, right? So my thought is that while Garlemald certainly owns some of the far east (Doma and such), the near-end of the Empire is more what I'd consider the middle east, i.e. Ala Mhigo.Â

But as you said, we have no idea what the true extent of the Empire is. For all we know, they could have territory west of us, too.

Random Encounter · **10-25-2014, 02:48 AM**

(10-25-2014, 02:36 AM)Ryoko Wrote:
(10-25-2014, 02:30 AM)Phae Wrote:
(10-25-2014, 02:24 AM)Ryoko Wrote:
(10-25-2014, 02:07 AM)Phae Wrote: Can we keep real life hobbies or whatever you want to call them out of this and stick to the subject, being fictional lands in a game please? Lets try to keep this civil shall we?

On subject, the far east can be a wide majority of things, hell, wouldn't the Garlean Empire itself fit under this vague description? There is a lot more to the "far east" then Doma.

I wouldn't exactly call Garlemald "far" east. I mean, the only thing separating the Empire from the Black Shroud is a thin strip of land belonging to Xelphatol (which somehow we still know absolutely nothing about)

That is true, but until its charted, I would still consider it under that category. The way I see it, the far east would be everything outside of Eorzea. Meaning everything east after Xelphatol (Which we have no idea how big exactly is that strip of land) and Gyn Abinia.

Admittedly it's all semantics, but I'm bored and it's something to talk about, right? So my thought is that while Garlemald certainly owns some of the far east (Doma and such), the near-end of the Empire is more what I'd consider the middle east, i.e. Ala Mhigo.Â

But as you said, we have no idea what the true extent of the Empire is. For all we know, they could have territory west of us, too.

Map wise, you are probably right. From an Eorzean's perspective though, they'd probably think of it as the far east. Similar to lets say we lived on the west coast and anything after central land wasn't really charted to us. We'd consider it the far east as its eastern and unknown to us.

As for the extend of the Empire, that is as you say a gray area. Until we get some more charts outside of Eorzea (Or finish proper mapping of Eorzea for that matter) its more or less pure guesswork.

However, that is kinda the beauty of it, people get too caught up in whats safe to dare poke at the unknown a little. While it true we know little of those lands, it doesn't mean you can't incorporate the hints given into your character, just have to set it up carefully to allow new lore as it comes and good enough knowledge/reasons if the subject comes up IC. So you don't back yourself into a wall.

TheLastCandle · **10-25-2014, 02:54 AM**

I don't get the argument against People playing Domans with real-world Japanese names. There are Domans in the game right now. These selfsame Domans..have Japanese names, the most popular example of whom being Yugiri herself. Ninja, a job FROM Doma, has a relic weapon called Yoshimitsu.

Deductive reasoning tells me it's not a huge stretch to assume Doma is at the very least similar to Japan, at the very least in terms of language!

Marisa · **10-25-2014, 03:28 AM**

(10-25-2014, 02:54 AM)TheLastCandle Wrote: I don't get the argument against People playing Domans with real-world Japanese names. There are Domans in the game right now. These selfsame Domans..have Japanese names, the most popular example of whom being Yugiri herself. Ninja, a job FROM Doma, has a relic weapon called Yoshimitsu.

Deductive reasoning tells me it's not a huge stretch to assume Doma is at the very least similar to Japan, at the very least in terms of language!

To that extent I think you're correct. In-game Domans have names like Koharu and Ahiko, and they certainly have a connection with Japanese martial arts. I think what a lot of people are worried about, though, is that others will see that these connections to Japan are true, and assume (perhaps subconsciously) that all theorized connections to Japan are true. Such as the idea of a warring feudal Doma, complete with Shogun and Bushido. The way I look at it, it's like how Limsa Lominsa is based largely on post-revolution New England, but we would be incorrect in assuming that it has 13 states, broke away from a larger empire, or that it was even a democratic society.

All we truly know about Doma is what has been specifically stated. Normally these assumptions would be fine if it were like Sharlayan (spelling?) where it might be years before we got any contradicting information and nobody really cares anyway, but the fact is that Doma is a really hot topic right now and we're probably going to be getting a constant stream of new info on it for at least the rest of the 2.X series. So basing your character around any assumptions about Doma is a dangerous game that probably will end in people backtracking the hell out of their characters.Â

Although it should be noted that none of it bothers me in the slightest. Not really a part of the lore I care about. People can claim Doma is home to deep-space lizard wizards if they want, doesn't really affect me.

Sounsyy · **10-25-2014, 10:06 AM**

(10-25-2014, 02:36 AM)Ryoko Wrote:
(10-25-2014, 02:30 AM)Phae Wrote:
(10-25-2014, 02:24 AM)Ryoko Wrote:
(10-25-2014, 02:07 AM)Phae Wrote: Can we keep real life hobbies or whatever you want to call them out of this and stick to the subject, being fictional lands in a game please? Lets try to keep this civil shall we?

On subject, the far east can be a wide majority of things, hell, wouldn't the Garlean Empire itself fit under this vague description? There is a lot more to the "far east" then Doma.

I wouldn't exactly call Garlemald "far" east. I mean, the only thing separating the Empire from the Black Shroud is a thin strip of land belonging to Xelphatol (which somehow we still know absolutely nothing about)

That is true, but until its charted, I would still consider it under that category. The way I see it, the far east would be everything outside of Eorzea. Meaning everything east after Xelphatol (Which we have no idea how big exactly is that strip of land) and Gyn Abinia.

Admittedly it's all semantics, but I'm bored and it's something to talk about, right? So my thought is that while Garlemald certainly owns some of the far east (Doma and such), the near-end of the Empire is more what I'd consider the middle east, i.e. Ala Mhigo.Â

But as you said, we have no idea what the true extent of the Empire is. For all we know, they could have territory west of us, too.

There is, actually, lore on this.

In XIV lore, the term "Far East" specifically refers to the Great Continent Othard. While the term "Near East" specifically refers to the island nation of Thavnair in the Jade Sea. It's not a general directional term, it refers to a specific place.

Garlemald, the home nation of the Garlean Empire, lies in Ilsabard, the northern Great Continent. Lore also tells us that the Empire controls all of Ilsabard and most all of Othard with only a scant few rebellious city-states being the exception. As far as Aldenard is concerned, Garlemald's territory extends only into Gyr Abania, a region of Eorzea once belonging to the Ala Mhigans. There they built a giant wall around the city-state keeping all invaders out and all captives inside.

There is also enough lore to speculate that Garlemald also has a presence along the northern edge of Eorzea, along Abalathia's Spine to the former city-state of Sharlayan. This speculation arose after learning that Sharlayans abandoned the city-state shortly after the fall of Ala Mhigo for their northern island home (also called Sharlayan). We believe this is where Garlemald launched their attacks on Vylbrand from in 1.0, as the Garlean invasion force landed to the Northwest of O'Ghomoro and pushed south.

Also, there is enough lore to draw a fairly accurate world map of Hydaelyn. Especially after the Lore Panel confirmed continental drift theory being canon in Hydaelyn.

Random Encounter · **10-25-2014, 10:27 AM**

(10-25-2014, 10:06 AM)Sounsyy Wrote:
(10-25-2014, 02:36 AM)Ryoko Wrote:
(10-25-2014, 02:30 AM)Phae Wrote:
(10-25-2014, 02:24 AM)Ryoko Wrote:
(10-25-2014, 02:07 AM)Phae Wrote: Can we keep real life hobbies or whatever you want to call them out of this and stick to the subject, being fictional lands in a game please? Lets try to keep this civil shall we?

On subject, the far east can be a wide majority of things, hell, wouldn't the Garlean Empire itself fit under this vague description? There is a lot more to the "far east" then Doma.

I wouldn't exactly call Garlemald "far" east. I mean, the only thing separating the Empire from the Black Shroud is a thin strip of land belonging to Xelphatol (which somehow we still know absolutely nothing about)

That is true, but until its charted, I would still consider it under that category. The way I see it, the far east would be everything outside of Eorzea. Meaning everything east after Xelphatol (Which we have no idea how big exactly is that strip of land) and Gyn Abinia.

Admittedly it's all semantics, but I'm bored and it's something to talk about, right? So my thought is that while Garlemald certainly owns some of the far east (Doma and such), the near-end of the Empire is more what I'd consider the middle east, i.e. Ala Mhigo.Â

But as you said, we have no idea what the true extent of the Empire is. For all we know, they could have territory west of us, too.

There is, actually, lore on this.

In XIV lore, the term "Far East" specifically refers to the Great Continent Othard. While the term "Near East" specifically refers to the island nation of Thavnair in the Jade Sea. It's not a general directional term, it refers to a specific place.

Garlemald, the home nation of the Garlean Empire, lies in Ilsabard, the northern Great Continent. Lore also tells us that the Empire controls all of Ilsabard and most all of Othard with only a scant few rebellious city-states being the exception. As far as Aldenard is concerned, Garlemald's territory extends only into Gyr Abania, a region of Eorzea once belonging to the Ala Mhigans. There they built a giant wall around the city-state keeping all invaders out and all captives inside.

There is also enough lore to speculate that Garlemald also has a presence along the northern edge of Eorzea, along Abalathia's Spine to the former city-state of Sharlayan. This speculation arose after learning that Sharlayans abandoned the city-state shortly after the fall of Ala Mhigo for their northern island home (also called Sharlayan). We believe this is where Garlemald launched their attacks on Vylbrand from in 1.0, as the Garlean invasion force landed to the Northwest of O'Ghomoro and pushed south.

Also, there is enough lore to draw a fairly accurate world map of Hydaelyn. Especially after the Lore Panel confirmed continental drift theory being canon in Hydaelyn.

Thanks for the correction lore Guru xD

Could you possibly send me the links to those, I'd like to read more about it if there is a compilation somewhere.

Sophia_Grave · **10-25-2014, 10:30 AM**

Its no stretch of the imagination to say that Doma is meant to, at least in part, represent Japan (or the orient in general). Anyone who has been paying attention to MSQ or Lore should see that. Therefore, Its definitely fair to make that connection. Using japanese names and sticking to eastern culture definitely says 'Doma' to me.

Oh Sounsyy, what is the state of Doma right now? I commonly hear what ranged between an Ala Mhigan-esque occupation and the city state being completely razed to the ground..

Random Encounter · **10-25-2014, 10:32 AM**

(10-25-2014, 10:30 AM)Apl_Juice Wrote: Its no stretch of the imagination to say that Doma is meant to, at least in part, represent Japan (or the orient in general). Anyone who has been paying attention to MSQ or Lore should see that. Therefore, Its definitely fair to make that connection. Using japanese names and sticking to eastern culture definitely says 'Doma' to me.

Oh Sounsyy, what is the state of Doma right now? I commonly hear what ranged between an Ala Mhigan-esque occupation and the city state being completely razed to the ground..

Lastest storyline said it was razed to the ground as an example, but I could be wrong.

Sounsyy · **10-25-2014, 11:25 AM**

(10-25-2014, 10:27 AM)Phaera Nireath Wrote: Could you possibly send me the links to those, I'd like to read more about it if there is a compilation somewhere.

There's not really a compilation (still working on that) but there are scattered lore texts that link Far East to Othard and Near East to Thavnair. I'll link a few of them for you.

"A cool and refreshing drink made from cultured milk. Popular in the Near Eastern city-state of Radz-at-Han for its ability to offset the blistering heat of the Thavnairian midday sun."
-Mint Lassi

"A hard, bitter fruit found in the forests of far eastern Doma. While typically avoided by the five races, it is a favorite amongst chocobos, and is known to lighten the red hues of their feathers."
-Doman Plum

"A foul, bitter fruit found growing on the Near Eastern island of Thavnair. While typically avoided by the residents of Radz-at-Han, it is a favorite amongst chocobos, and is known to restore feathers to their original hue."
-Han Lemon

"Woven from sweet-smelling rush grass, these rectangular floor mats are widely used in the far eastern land of Doma."
-Tatami Mat

There are a number of other examples sprinkled into lore texts ranging from Coeurls and Tortoises being indigenous to the Near East/Thavnair, to all of the rewards from the most recent Moonfire Faire event being Othardian/Far Eastern.

Anyroad, I have yet to see any lore text misuse the terms. Near East is always exclusively used to refer to Thavnair and Far East is always exclusively used to refer to Othard.

As far as lore backing the Garlean's movements and territories, I'll refer you to Anonymoose's The Rise and Fall of the White Raven, which is a comprehensive narrative of the story of Garlemald that was read and 100% lore approved by Fernehalwes.

(10-25-2014, 10:30 AM)Apl_Juice Wrote: Oh Sounsyy, what is the state of Doma right now? I commonly hear what ranged between an Ala Mhigan-esque occupation and the city state being completely razed to the ground..

Umm... I know Yugiri tells us Doma's fate in the 2.2 storyline, but I honestly can't remember off the top of my head. I'll go back and check my MSQ cutscenes when I log in next! ^^; From what I remember, it's safe to say the city-state is not still standing. At least not under its own banner. I will investigate!

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