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Zetchryn · **12-19-2014, 06:46 PM**

...

All my yes goes to this thread.

MikoBehnen · **12-19-2014, 06:53 PM**

While, yes on theÂ cavalryman thing... That's not all they did. I've never read anywhere that they didÂ anythingÂ sexual (sorry if that was somehow implied) but they were trained in courtly manors and would serve as social escorts at things like ballsÂ (not just travel)Â so women wouldn't be seen alone.
So no, not = male courtesan exactly but also no, not "totally wrong."

(give me a few to find them and I can cite the books ^_^Â )Â

Ilwe'ran · **12-19-2014, 07:06 PM**

(12-19-2014, 06:53 PM)MikoBehnen Wrote: While, yes on theÂ cavalryman thing... That's not all they did. I've never read anywhere that they didÂ anythingÂ sexual (sorry if that was somehow implied) but they were trained in courtly manors and would serve as social escorts at things like ballsÂ (not just travel)Â so women wouldn't be seen alone.
So no, not = male courtesan exactly but also no, not "totally wrong."

(give me a few to find them and I can cite the books ^_^Â )Â

I'm terribly sorry, but I'm french, I know the story of my country and I know about chevaliers. You're totally wrong when it comes to this or it's really really reaaaaaaally bad translation of another word (I'm blaming your book there, not you).
And again, no chevalier during the 18th century. "Chevaliers" ceased to exist at the begining of the 16th century (and there were really few after the 14th Century). At the end of the Middle Ages in France.
You might confund "courtesan" with "courtois" which is a term which was applied to the chevalier.. But not directly linked to french chevaliers, but as a derivative of what rules are supposed to follow the Knights of the Round Table from "ChrÃ©tien de Troyes" but that ideal is coming from England.. And from the 12th Century.

PkThunda · **12-19-2014, 08:51 PM**

Remember folks- Sources.
Link sources to your arguments to both back up your claims and educate!

Amelia · **12-19-2014, 09:23 PM**

This was a really good read! Thank you for that! I hadn't ever known of courtesan history from so many nations. Very, very interesting.

Ilwe'ran · **12-19-2014, 10:23 PM**

(12-19-2014, 08:51 PM)PkThunda Wrote: Remember folks- Sources.
Link sources to your arguments to both back up your claims and educate!

I could link a lot of things, but they are in french as what MikoBehnen is talking about is about a french army institution (and like a dream for many children ^^ !). But best would be to know what are her source, so I would be able to identify where is the confusion, it might be something about the language and mistranslations or something about a view of the other countries on mine (yup, can happen as well, like for the mousquetaires and the sword).

MikoBehnen · **12-19-2014, 11:30 PM**

(12-19-2014, 10:23 PM)Ilwe Wrote:
(12-19-2014, 08:51 PM)PkThunda Wrote: Remember folks- Sources.
Link sources to your arguments to both back up your claims and educate!

I could link a lot of things, but they are in french as what MikoBehnen is talking about is about a french army institution (and like a dream for many children ^^ !). But best would be to know what are her source, so I would be able to identify where is the confusion, it might be something about the language and mistranslations or something about a view of the other countries on mine (yup, can happen as well, like for the mousquetaires and the sword).

I'm going to have to dig through all my old school books to find them so I'm not just trying to remember. LoL (also: "something about a view of the other countries on mine" is SUPER possible since I studied all of it at an American college and we're not always great at that bit :\Â )

I did a quick google check and I DID get it wrong Tongue

Â (That's what I get working from memory) So it wasn'tÂ "chevalier"Â but "chevalier servant" and it seems that was just what the french calledÂ cicisbei... going to spend 2 hours on Wiki now studying ^_^

Zetchryn · **12-19-2014, 11:36 PM**

Was wondering, cuz I had thought that Chevalier was the mounted knights. Still an awesome thread, good to know for my alt that I'm developing alongside A'zireena.

Ilwe'ran · **12-19-2014, 11:52 PM**

(12-19-2014, 11:30 PM)MikoBehnen Wrote:
(12-19-2014, 10:23 PM)Ilwe Wrote:
(12-19-2014, 08:51 PM)PkThunda Wrote: Remember folks- Sources.
Link sources to your arguments to both back up your claims and educate!

I could link a lot of things, but they are in french as what MikoBehnen is talking about is about a french army institution (and like a dream for many children ^^ !). But best would be to know what are her source, so I would be able to identify where is the confusion, it might be something about the language and mistranslations or something about a view of the other countries on mine (yup, can happen as well, like for the mousquetaires and the sword).

I'm going to have to dig through all my old school books to find them so I'm not just trying to remember. LoL (also: "something about a view of the other countries on mine" is SUPER possible since I studied all of it at an American college and we're not always great at that bit :\Â )

I did a quick google check and I DID get it wrong Â (That's what I get working from memory) So it wasn'tÂ "chevalier"Â but "chevalier servant" and it seems that was just what the french calledÂ cicisbei... going to spend 2 hours on Wiki now studying ^_^

I thought it might linked to language as there are many words close but not having the same meaning when it comes to chivalry.
Chevalier servant is the french translation of SigisbÃ©e (Cicisbeo) who were, as you said some male courtesan accompanying married women in Italy during the 13th century as you said, but they didn't existed in France. Woman infidelity was (and still is) something which is hardly tolerated and never official so I really doubt there were any official male courtesan in France.

xypher · **07-27-2017, 07:29 AM**

This was a really interesting read! I learned lots of new stuff today.

I noticed there was a small debate about "male courtesans" but never a definitive closure to it. Would a male be able to use the title OF "courtesan" or is that something that should be avoided? I've been considering making a "courtesan" type, but it's a male so I wanted a general feel on if it's a good idea or not.

Edit: I necro'd like a dummy. I'm so good at checking dates, I swear.

Gegenji · **07-27-2017, 08:45 AM**

(07-27-2017, 07:29 AM)xypher Wrote: This was a really interesting read! I learned lots of new stuff today.

I noticed there was a small debate about "male courtesans" but never a definitive closure to it. Would a male be able to use the title OF "courtesan" or is that something that should be avoided? I've been considering making a "courtesan" type, but it's a male so I wanted a general feel on if it's a good idea or not.

Edit: I necro'd like a dummy. I'm so good at checking dates, I swear.

Pff, you're fine. I remember when this thread was made and it has a lot of good information for people who want to play this particular character type.

As for "male courtesan," I've seen a few folks running with the idea in-game, so I think you're safe to run that if you so please. I don't think the term is gender-specific... but I could be wrong.

xypher · **07-27-2017, 02:38 PM**

(07-27-2017, 08:45 AM)Gegenji Wrote: Pff, you're fine. I remember when this thread was made and it has a lot of good information for people who want to play this particular character type.

As for "male courtesan," I've seen a few folks running with the idea in-game, so I think you're safe to run that if you so please. I don't think the term is gender-specific... but I could be wrong.

Ooh, fair enough. Yeah, I have seen people running around as males tagged as "courtesans" but I noticed these are the same folk who believe being a courtesan is just a fancy term for being a sex worker.Â Undecided

Â But hopefully with this thread, people will come to start doing really intriguing and unique plots with their courtesans! I or sure aim to stick true to the old ideals of what a "courtesan" was to the best of my ability, for sure.

FallenFedora · **07-28-2017, 08:57 PM**

I'm really glad I stumbled onto this threat, playing my guy off as a courtier (The male equivalent of a courtesan) as more the expensive escort type rather than 'we smash now, ye?'. This'll help a lot - and I hope it helps abate the stigma around characters that play these roles. (Especially the ones whom use it more as a backdrop, rather than the centerpiece.)

Etoile · **07-28-2017, 11:40 PM**

(07-27-2017, 07:29 AM)xypher Wrote: This was a really interesting read! I learned lots of new stuff today.

I noticed there was a small debate about "male courtesans" but never a definitive closure to it. Would a male be able to use the title OF "courtesan" or is that something that should be avoided? I've been considering making a "courtesan" type, but it's a male so I wanted a general feel on if it's a good idea or not.

Edit: I necro'd like a dummy. I'm so good at checking dates, I swear.

If you wanna rp a male courtesan, do it. Seen a head nods toward it in game with npcs, but that's aside the point. Rp what you enjoy playing. Big Grin

Momo · **07-29-2017, 12:06 PM**

Rather than some, I would say the majority of courtesans, both male and female, consider themselves to be prostitutes or act as such. The best way that I have seen to counteract this from my experience, is just have integrity and faith in your own character and the portrayal you choose. It gets a little exhausting, but being vigilant in telling people that ERP isn't all your about is rewarding when people ask for your to perform courtly duties, and enjoy your character for the atmosphere they create, the little gestures, words, and actions your character takes to entertain your partner and those around them.

It can be done! Just gotta put in the work and dedication and find a place your character fits in, either a group or specific friends.

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The Courtesan Compendium (A Guide)

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