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FreelanceWizard · **01-25-2015, 03:00 PM**

(01-24-2015, 11:26 AM)Haeden Wrote: Patience, DF Tanks. That's what a lot of you lack.

More patience all around would be nice. One of the major reasons I don't queue for DF as a tank in anything other than low these days, despite being reasonably well geared, is because I don't want to deal with:

People face-pulling because I'm not going fast enough for them.
People whining because I'm going to pull what I'm comfortable with (which may not be Everything Until The First Thing That Stops Us).
DPS who open up with 3xFlare on the Shield Lob.
People who complain when I don't have perfect knowledge of all content as a tank, when I primarily heal and DPS. Every role learns elements of fights differently. What I know as a healer (anticipating big hits, knowing when I need to heal group-wide damage) is not the same as for DPS (mechanics avoidance, when to max DPS to clear a DPS check), which is not the same as for tank (positioning, when adds pop and where, when best to use defensive cooldowns).

All of that could be handled with people being patient.

And that's why I only tank for people I know.

Nebbs · **01-25-2015, 04:20 PM**

So I (the Tank) went DF for Roulette High, got Haukke HM. Now this is an easy thing to run through, the party looks well geared, I just need protect and... hang on where is the WHM going?

Yes, he ran of ahead to pull the mobs and holy them. I waited a while then took them off him. He then proceeded to do the same in the next room.

I left, exit stage right.

I do wonder what people say when I leave... it is never anything good when others leave a party I'm in.

Atoli · **01-25-2015, 05:15 PM**

Garuda Normal - One or more new players

Me: Okay guys, anyone need this explained?
Bard: No
Tank runs ahead and pulls boss
Healer stands in the middle of all of the rocks, I'm getting PTSD flashbacks of runs gone wrong
Me: Don't stand in the middle of the rocks, when Garuda hits you she'll damage them too
Doesn't move
Barely survive her blowing up the rocks, but survive nonetheless
Doing absolutely fantastic until we get to the part where Garuda jumps in the middle during the purple vortex phase and you need to run behind her to avoid her cone attack
Naturally, the tank stayed in her face and ate it, dying instantly
Healer rezzes the tank with Swiftcast + Raise, but alas, can't keep up with Garuda's AOEs and we wipe
Me: Hey guys, gotta stand behind Garuda when she jumps in the middle like that next time or we'll die
Scholar: okay, sry, it's my first time
Me: Np, doing great so far
Me: And try not to stand by the rocks, the more health they have the less health we lose when she blows them up
Scholar: oh okay sry
Bard: Stand by me Scholar
Tank pulls when we're talking
We catch up, do fine until she does her 75% health jump and AOE, the very first, and healer catches it with her face and we wipe
I ready check; round three
Fight goes on absolutely perfectly until we get to the purple vortex phase and the Scholar is keeping Cleric Stance on, panic starts when we're dipping below 40% health and the only effective heals going out is from Eos
Tank stands in bad again, of course
Me: Turn off Cleric Stance when you heal
We're steadily dipping into 20% and 30% health zones
Me: <se.1> TURN OFF CLERICSTANCE
Lose the bard, lose the healer, I'm panic-buttoning Perfect Dodge and Featherfoot before Limit Breaking
Barely kill her
Scholar: thanks guys
Me: Turn off Cleric Stance when you heal.
Scholar: oops

I left so god damn fast so I wouldn't find myself going into capslocks spamming "READ YOUR DAMN CHAT BOX" aauufghghrghhfghfgh the nerd rage is real

Steel Wolf · **01-27-2015, 12:02 PM**

Simple and short one...but it's the little things that kill, as Gavin Rossdale sang.

Running the regular quests as Cliaux. At the Tam-Tara Deepcroft step. PUG'in' it up. Things are going okay...our tank is having difficulty maintaining agro but isn't being helped by a bit of overhealing and lack of tagging which targets to engage first.

Also the healer just couldn't HELP but throw water balls at enemies.

Anyway, before the first mini-boss thing I announce needing to go AFK. I return to see the fight is barred off and my chat log reads as follows:

"AFK?"
"oooooo"
"away from keyboard lol"

....SERIOUSLY?!?

Gegenji · **01-27-2015, 12:13 PM**

Had another few badtank cases the past couple days leveling BRD on Gogon - I think he's attracting them.

One was another case of a PLD refusing to use Flash at all to maintain aggro in a Satasha. Asked once, recommended once, warned once, and then votekicked 'im. At least that time we didn't have a derpy NIN saying not to do it because "he needs to learn!"

More recently was a tank in normal Haukke Manor who seemed to have no idea where he was going. Of course, he didn't say anything at the start. Kinda figured he was new once, after the first boss, he went through the door behind it and lapped the entire manor once. I think the worst part was that the healer and other DPS followed him while I went and unlocked the gate.

Rest of it went fine... up until the last boss. Literally no one but me tried to turn off the lamps. When I died from a bomb leashing to me and the AoE... they wiped to the mounting damage wrought from tunneling on the boss. I told them they need to help with the lamps and the healer responds, in /say, "I was."

Second attempt, I watched as said healer decidedly did NOT help with the lamps, but fortunately the NIN did so I could focus on melting the adds once he tunneled back on the boss again. Tank didn't even bother trying to grab them. And no commendations were given that day.

Warren Castille · **01-27-2015, 12:28 PM**

The "don't kick this person, they're new" mentality astounds me. When I'm giving advice, I'm not doing it for my health, I'm doing it because your being incompetent is slowing down what should be a smooth process. I frame it politely, but if you don't show the barest ability to improve, yeah, you get kicked.

I recall getting into it with someone on a linkshell once because I was grousing about an idiot healer being utterly unable to keep me alive through Stone Vigil (Story). It had nothing to do with them entering at the lowest level because myself and the DPS were synced and in endgame gear. It had everything to do with not knowing how to cast cures in a timely manner. It isn't anyone's job to educate someone - to take time out of their day and available play time - and cater to someone who doesn't know how to handle the sneaky ice elemental pulls. I took every possible hand-holding option I could and still died despite cooldown usage.

Carrying on and dragging someone through that dungeon will not teach them how to play. They won't learn anything upon completion that they couldn't have learned through practice. And I'm hard pressed to believe that, on exit, they weren't going to just queue up and kill people in Garuda.

It's one thing to run into people who don't know what they're doing in the entry dungeons. It's something else to get folks nearing 50 who still don't know how to flash, or do their damage priorities, or heal for more than one enemy on a tank.

Rargh.

Kurt S. · **01-27-2015, 12:33 PM**

So I finally decided to follow what other people are saying and get my sword and board up to 34 for provoke. Since the healer and dps of my most recent hm run, Halatali, realized that I can't hold aggro worth a damn. And I agree with em.

So I braced myself to hop into sword and board and grit my teeth until ot reaches 34 and go back to the glorious axe master race.

Oh boy was I thrust back into the world of low level tanking as a low level tank. Nothing like the healer keeping cleric stance on and forcing me to rely on bloodbath, fracture, foresight and FoF just to keep my health up since the healer was almost always OOM and not listening to my 'healer cleric stance off please and can you please cast protect?' as well as trigger happy dps that my flash>flash>riot blade>flash just barely holds aggro while they each go piss off a certain mob and then run around so much I cant get a decent flash in.

I miss overpower... it's the better half of my flash. Would have also made maintaining group aggro a whole lot more satisfying.

Why must gettin gud have to be so tedious and painful?

#justnoobtankthings

Kage · **01-27-2015, 12:37 PM**

I've honestly have less than 5 times where I've actually hit vote kick.

I think I gripe a lot more than I ever take any action.

Seriously. :/ But sometimes you gotta snap.
I had a tank that would not flash or throw shields. I'd asked him to. More than once. I even used auto translate. "Overpower"x2 "Please use it". I would end up tanking. SCH didn't give a fuck cause I mean Eos can heal everything. The tank. Kept. Spinning. Not to use overpower. Just to spin.
"Please stop spinning around."
"Please stop spinning."
"Please stop spinning the enemies around."

Get to the boss. He's literally spinning the boss that the boss went 1080. I snapped and said "JESUS FUCKING CHRIST STOP SPINNING."

WHY DO TANKS DO THISSSSSS. It's Sastasha gdi. STORY MODE

Warren Castille · **01-27-2015, 12:40 PM**

Provoke is 22, so I'm happy to report your misery will be much shorter than you think.

For low level gladiator... Yeah, you're hosed. My strategy was just to empty MP into Flash, then Fast>Riot until either 1) full or 2) everything's dead, rinse and repeat.

Some facts:

You cannot hold hate off of an archer with buffs running from the door.
You cannot hold hate off of a pugilist with buffs running from the door.
You cannot hold hate off of a rogue with buffs running from the door.
You probably can't hold hate off of a thaumaturge with buffs running from the door.
loldrg

May your journey be short. The REAL painful one is paladins doing CNJ to 34 for sweet, sweet Stoneskin. That was a nightmare for me, but I'm an awful healer.

Gegenji · **01-27-2015, 12:43 PM**

(01-27-2015, 12:40 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: May your journey be short. The REAL painful one is paladins doing CNJ to 34 for sweet, sweet Stoneskin. That was a nightmare for me, but I'm an awful healer.

Guess what Iiiiiiiiii'm doing~ Sad

On the plus side, Chachan looks adorable in his little healing robes. And I have the experience of leveling the sucker to 50 before. Just... without any of the THM or ARN cross-class skills.

Cure spam it is, then.

Kage · **01-27-2015, 12:44 PM**

(01-27-2015, 12:40 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: May your journey be short. The REAL painful one is paladins doing CNJ to 34 for sweet, sweet Stoneskin. That was a nightmare for me, but I'm an awful healer.

I got Stoneskin about 6 months after I hit PLD 50. >.>

The biggest issue with GLA/PLD tanking is when they forget that if they can't cycle easily, they should mark. If they're having issues with thread with marked, there is one of two things going on. Tank is not doing enough Flash or cycling combo / doing tank things. OR DPS is going balls to the wall after you've only done Shield Lob/Tomahawk. Seriously, restrain yourselves from hitting things until after you see all names in red.

Tanks like GLA should flash probably two times and then combo1 on enemy 1. Then cycle combo to finish on number 2. Then same with 3. Weave a flash somewhere. If you -absolutely- cannot seem to hold hate at all (thought this should), dump all your flash and then riot blade combo to get mp and flash when you get the mp to do it.

BEST THING IN THE WORLD:
When I leveled WHM, I would cast Regen after the pull and combo/flash is off. So around 4 GCDs into it. GUESS WHAT TANKS. YOU SHOULDN'T BE RUNNING INTO THE NEXT PACK WHEN YOU STILL HAVE REGEN ON. I DIDN'T CAST IT ON YOU AT THE END OF THE PULL. IT WAS ON YOU DURING COMBAT.DON'T BLAME ME WHEN YOU CAN'T SEE THAT GREEN BUFF ON YOU AND THEN I HAVE FUCKING AGGRO CAUSE YOU'RE BLIND AS FUCK.

Telluride · **01-27-2015, 12:45 PM**

New Vent:

A pox upon all those people who immediately vote Abandon in WoD after a single wipe by the first boss. Look, people, that floating eye bastard is probably the HARDEST boss in here, and if we can beat him, the rest will probably be cake by comparison. It's new content - stop acting like spoiled little 8-year-olds, pick yourselves up, and give it another go.

Also, a stab to the kidneys with a rusty steel spike to the White Mage healer who dropped out of the middle of WoD as soon as he got his new hat drop. Luckily, we got a healer five times better than he was for the rest of the run, who got DROWNED in Commendations at the end of it, and deserved every one.

Sounsyy · **01-27-2015, 12:46 PM**

(01-27-2015, 12:33 PM)Chicken Nugger Wrote: I miss overpower... it's the better half of my flash. Would have also made maintaining group aggro a whole lot more satisfying.

Tip for PLD, especially true at lower levels, don't rely on Flash to hold aggro, ever. Use Flash once maybe twice at the start of the pull for AoE aggro then divide your Enmity combo across all dps-engaged mobs. Rage of Halone will be your best friend. I'm sure you know to do that from leveling WAR, just emphasizing because well... as you've clearly noticed, keeping hate on PLD vs WAR is a bit more of a struggle, especially at lower levels. You're used to Overpower and Flash, even at 50, will never pull the same amount of enmity as you're used to.

Gegenji · **01-27-2015, 12:49 PM**

(01-27-2015, 12:46 PM)Sounsyy Wrote:
(01-27-2015, 12:33 PM)Chicken Nugger Wrote: I miss overpower... it's the better half of my flash. Would have also made maintaining group aggro a whole lot more satisfying.

Tip for PLD, especially true at lower levels, don't rely on Flash to hold aggro, ever. Use Flash once maybe twice at the start of the pull for AoE aggro then divide your Enmity combo across all dps-engaged mobs. Rage of Halone will be your best friend. I'm sure you know to do that from leveling WAR, just emphasizing because well... as you've clearly noticed, keeping hate on PLD vs WAR is a bit more of a struggle, especially at lower levels. You're used to Overpower and Flash, even at 50, will never pull the same amount of enmity as you're used to.

I've managed to hold aggro well enough with Flash spam. The issue for me is when I'm actually doing the RoH cycling and one or both the DPS are hitting other targets. Especially when they're going balls to the wall on SEPARATE targets, so I'm trying to fight for enmity on two mobs simultaneously as a PLD.

That is not fun.

Warren Castille · **01-27-2015, 12:52 PM**

Yeah, remember that your "combo" until 26 is just Fast>Savage and that's only on one target. It's pretty useless except on bosses, and even then, a DPS pushing hard with all of their buffs will probably outperform you anyway. Don't worry too much about it; A melee is about as durable as you are before then. Hit 22 and never look back.

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