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Warren Castille · **02-03-2015, 02:54 PM**

(02-03-2015, 02:53 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: Guns don't kill people. Plots do.

Ahyup.

Gegenji · **02-03-2015, 02:57 PM**

(02-03-2015, 02:54 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(02-03-2015, 02:53 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: Guns don't kill people. Plots do.

Ahyup.

That's deep, man.

Sounsyy · **02-03-2015, 03:01 PM**

(02-03-2015, 02:57 PM)Gegenji Wrote:
(02-03-2015, 02:54 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(02-03-2015, 02:53 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: Guns don't kill people. Plots do.

Ahyup.

That's deep, man.

Truism.

Aldotsk · **02-03-2015, 03:01 PM**

(02-03-2015, 02:57 PM)Gegenji Wrote:
(02-03-2015, 02:54 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(02-03-2015, 02:53 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: Guns don't kill people. Plots do.

Ahyup.

That's deep, man.

With all that statement said, I guess in terms of bullets - I guess it'll just come down to how people will react to it ICly then. Honestly, I don't mind shooting more than few bullets to knockdown a target or creature if I had to (if I was a ranger/gunner/Machinist even). But how far I can handle people with their creativity in their guns and bullets is another story though. Like if they said something like exploding bullet or "hysteria bullet", I am not sure if I should take it seriously :'/

Gegenji · **02-03-2015, 03:08 PM**

I have a feeling that taking a bullet to the face will be just as dangerous as taking an arrow to the face.... or a Fire spell to the face... or an axe to the face. Basically anything else dangerous to the face, really.

The main point will be making sure they can't shoot you in the face. And we technically have ways to do that. Cobalt stops bullets, I'm fairly certain Ida PUNCHED bullets in a 1.0 cutscene, and I think there is evidence of a magic barrier deflecting rounds as well. So, as dumb as it seems, it certainly looks like there's ways to overcome someone with a gun.

There could be another method of gun control that we could also pull from real life: licenses to carry. With how easy it is to pick up and shoot a gun, I'm almost certain at least the folks in Ul'dah will want to make sure that some upstart merchant who got screwed by the big boys can't just show up and gun down someone on the council. I wouldn't be too surprised if the Flames or even the Sworn institute keeping a register of who possesses a firearm.

... Plus, forcing people to obtain a license means paying for said license. Which means more money changing hands.

Warren Castille · **02-03-2015, 03:08 PM**

(02-03-2015, 03:01 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: With all that statement said, I guess in terms of bullets - I guess it'll just come down to how people will react to it ICly then. Honestly, I don't mind shooting more than few bullets to knockdown a target or creature if I had to (if I was a ranger/gunner/Machinist even). But how far I can handle people with their creativity in their guns and bullets is another story though. Like if they said something like exploding bullet or "hysteria bullet", I am not sure if I should take it seriously :'/

There's no line to be drawn. If the roleplaying community (not necessarily us here at the RPC, but I mean in general) are expected to be tolerant of people playing white mages, people playing primal slayers, people being glamoured Au Ra, people stretching lore by any means, then when Irvine X'Blazeit fires his Black Hole Super Nova machine gun at you, you're stuck dealing with it.

V'aleera · **02-03-2015, 03:09 PM**

Considering Yda protects herself from being shot by literally punching bullets out of the air, I wouldn't put too much stock in the strength of firearms. They're on the same level as everything else, at best.

On the subject of guns in the Grindstone: what about rubber bullets?

Chris Ganale · **02-03-2015, 03:10 PM**

You joke about gun kata, Chachani, but that isÂ Yuuna's fighting style with pistols. Mind that she traditionally will use the longer, carbine-type weapons machinists get for longer and intermediate ranges. Gun Fu comes out when someone closes to melee distance.

In any case, I'm on a phone on a lunch break right now so I don't have the time or means to expound my thoughts on guns in a fantasy environment, other than to say I always have and will take the side of guns in such a debate. I'll come back after work and expand on it.

Warren Castille · **02-03-2015, 03:12 PM**

(02-03-2015, 03:09 PM)Intaki Wrote: Considering Yda protects herself from being shot by literally punching bullets out of the air, I wouldn't put too much stock in the strength of firearms. They're on the same level as everything else, at best.

On the subject of guns in the Grindstone: what about rubber bullets?

I don't think we should be using NPCs doing cool things during cutscenes as the benchmark, otherwise I'm going to canonically start swinging Godbert's hammer around and playing Devil May Cry at the Grindstone.

Rubber bullets might be considered. Beanbags, too, like riot cops use. I'll burn that bridge when it comes to it, but I'm uneasy about it simply because of how indefensible they are when it comes to posting. It still boils down to the attacker's accuracy, not the defender's anything-except-armor-maybe.

Telluride · **02-03-2015, 03:18 PM**

Another point to consider is that gunpowder weapons, in RL, have been around a LOT longer than people think, but their reliability, danger to the user, slow load times, and loud operating noise (which kind of ruled them out as a sniper assassin's weapon for a long time...) made them sort of a fringe weapon for centuries. I read a recent article that pointed out muskets/rifles in paintings from much, much earlier in history than your typical modern person would believe.

So, the question must also consider that when we have mages, and enhanced archery techniques, that firesand weapons simply aren't especially useful EXCEPT for putting in the hands of greener troops to quickly try to match firepower against experienced archers and fire-throwers, and even though a musket may be easy to aim and shoot, LOADING them is a massive vulnerability for a magicpunk culture like Eorzea, since in the time it takes even an experienced musketeer to pour powder and shot, an archer or Thaumaturge can get off three-plus ranged attacks, maybe more.

Indeed, the most expedient use for firesand weaponry seems to come in at the artillery level: cannons, which are smaller, more portable and often more destructive than counterweight or torsion-based siege weapons, making them ideal for ships and use against really big targets... which is exactly why we'd see Limsans apparently leading the way for their use in Eorzea.

Aldotsk · **02-03-2015, 03:20 PM**

(02-03-2015, 03:12 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: Rubber bullets might be considered. Beanbags, too, like riot cops use. I'll burn that bridge when it comes to it, but I'm uneasy about it simply because of how indefensible they are when it comes to posting. It still boils down to the attacker's accuracy, not the defender's anything-except-armor-maybe.

Rubber Bullets sound better for Grindstone. However, as you said - if people can cooperate in what needs to be posted up in RP, I am sure everyone can deal with it.Â

If they feel defenseless, they might as well as use melee (kick/elbow/punch) to sway the enemy away in terms of close combat in case the gun is not within a good range.

Gegenji · **02-03-2015, 03:25 PM**

(02-03-2015, 03:12 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I don't think we should be using NPCs doing cool things during cutscenes as the benchmark, otherwise I'm going to canonically start swinging Godbert's hammer around and playing Devil May Cry at the Grindstone.

So I can't do that with the Vulcan Lucis once I finally get that with Chachan? Sad

Grindstone needs more hammer time.

EDIT:
Back to a more topical note, as it has been mentioned, there's been lots of techniques that have been created and taught for disarming someone with a firearm. The Israeli Army, for example, has training on that very thing. I could see - if firearms become pervasive in Eorzea - that a lot of folks will be gunning (heh) to learn a way to part a man from his boomstick.

And if rubber bullets and the like get used in the Grindstone? What better way to practice them without having to risk getting your jaw blown off for messing up?

Warren Castille · **02-03-2015, 03:30 PM**

One trap we should be intent on avoiding is that Eorzean firearms require long loading times. The muskets might just be chamber-fed like anything else. If that's the wrong term, I'm ignorant of it: I don't speak gun.

As mentioned, I'll probably put up a post asking about guns in the thread proper. I don't have the authority to make any decision on that matter.

Also, Chachanji; The Grindstone has been won by folks using crafting implements. Not to the prowess Godbert displays, of course, but they do have some representation. Hell, Warren's last championship appearance was a draw against one.

Sounsyy · **02-03-2015, 03:31 PM**

(02-03-2015, 03:18 PM)Telluride Wrote: a musket may be easy to aim and shoot, LOADING them is a massive vulnerability for a magicpunk culture like Eorzea, since in the time it takes even an experienced musketeer to pour powder and shot, an archer or Thaumaturge can get off three-plus ranged attacks, maybe more.

Problem with this is... every time we see a gun used in Eorzea, it's being rapid fired without reloading. So unless lore comes out with the Machinist establishing exactly how a single or two-shot rifle with no magazine is firing 6-8 shots before being emptied (inconveniently to plot) we're going to see roleplayers doing the same.

Limsa Lominsa Opening Cinematic
(@3:05-3:50)

Dues Ex Machina
(Just watch all of this. First two minutes are just filled with muskets going off like modern day pistols.)

Gegenji · **02-03-2015, 03:35 PM**

I'm pretty sure Merlwyb fires more than one or two shots in the ARM quest chain culmination too. And both her and the Yellowjacket Lala's weapons are basically shotguns from the looks of them. One shot, two tops before having to reload. So there's definitely some hand-waving going on here for the sake of cool.

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Gun Control: How deadly are they in Eorzea?

RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes