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Kage · **02-13-2015, 03:15 AM**

(02-13-2015, 01:34 AM)Faye Wrote: It's always been against the ToS. I guess they just started taking it more seriously. =/ All the casino stuff in Mor Dhona and in-game raffles are considered "RMT," as well, just as a heads up.

Incorrect about Casinos. They are allowed.

A mod posted about this on the official forums.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threa...ost2713021
"As for casinos, they are treated like trade agreements. This means that you should ensure clear rules are agreed upon in the game before engaging in this type of agreement, since the GMs can only enforce the terms of the agreement that was made in the game. So long as the agreement is upheld, the GMs should not need to get involved. If you do not feel that the agreement is upheld, you should report that to a GM for investigation for Fraud."
If you have set rules and you -follow- the rules and don't commit fraud you are ok.

Aya · **02-13-2015, 03:17 AM**

I'm sure its against the ToS technically, but until they can manage to stop the botters, the gold-selling spammers, and actually open up our RP servers to new characters, I'd rather they just leave our artists well enough alone.

And sorry.. I just really don't like seeing fun and creative stuff shut down for really unnecessary reasons.

BroodingFicus · **02-13-2015, 03:35 AM**

My thoughts exactly. Back when housing was first coming out, the only way my FC could dare afford it was for me to sell art. No one was hurt by it and everyone left happy. If you can't stop a bunch of people exploiting your game to make quick gil/keep people from selling ill begotten gil to the masses, why suddenly go after the people who are doing something relatively harmless? Especially when, lets face it, someone wants to sell their art they can go side step this whole bogus ruling and just offer 'commissions' and be contacted privately for details. Just seems pointless. Or perhaps it just bothers me that they seem to have told people it was fine, read a bunch of speculation posts asking for clarification and /then/ decided 'hey you know...that sounds legit, lets go with that'. Not bitter. No. No shade.

[youtube]Xl0VXczqVtc[/youtube]

Kellach Woods · **02-13-2015, 08:23 AM**

(02-13-2015, 03:17 AM)Aya Wrote: I'm sure its against the ToS technically, but until they can manage to stop the botters, the gold-selling spammers, and actually open up our RP servers to new characters, I'd rather they just leave our artists well enough alone.

Likely they won't act unless someone reports, much like in those situations.

That being said, it's still against the ToS and it's a bad look to openly advertise it now Sad

Aldotsk · **02-13-2015, 08:40 AM**

(02-13-2015, 01:34 AM)Faye Wrote: It's always been against the ToS. I guess they just started taking it more seriously. =/ All the casino stuff in Mor Dhona and in-game raffles are considered "RMT," as well, just as a heads up.

I really hope those people who keep spamming the /random roll to bid on gil would be punished because they are really getting worse by filling up those chats.

Also I do feel sorry for those who can't afford IRL money and has to pay Gil for commission for many personal reasons, and it's not easy really. Commissions irl money for some people who are offering commissions happened to charge $80-$100 irl money but for Gil they were only charging 400k-500k

Blue · **02-13-2015, 08:52 AM**

Well, there goes the hope to have some fanarts for RL-poor people like me.

There goes SE favoring the rich kids again, much like with the bands selling.

/slowclap

Warren Castille · **02-13-2015, 09:03 AM**

As a law-abiding citizen of Eorzea, I understand why SE is doing what it's doing.

On the other hand, as Edgar stated, fuck the police. I'm imagining daring night time raids on art threads, hush-hush back door dealings, the innocent exchange of gil as a gift and secretive missives hidden away in the mail.

You usually won't catch me endorsing breaking TOS, but I fully recommend people to find alternative routes to continue doing what they were doing. It's clear no one here is abusing MSpaint stick figures for big bucks, and this is one of the cases where I can say I fully believe the rules to be wrong.

I encourage everyone with an art thread to simply ask for payment discussion to be taken to PM.

Kinono · **02-13-2015, 09:04 AM**

The no gil for art thing is stupid. Stupid but understandable. But how is casinos and raffles "RMT?" I hate them as much as the next person but SE may need a refresher on what RMT stands for. My old GW2 guild used to have IC hide and seek tournaments with huge gold pools, would that be considered RMT too? Why stomp down on stupid fun? How dare we as as players extend the life of your game for you!

Warren Castille · **02-13-2015, 09:07 AM**

(02-13-2015, 09:04 AM)Kinono Wrote: The no gil for art thing is stupid. Stupid but understandable. But how is casinos and raffles "RMT?" I hate them as much as the next person but SE may need a refresher on what RMT stands for. My old GW2 guild used to have IC hide and seek tournaments with huge gold pools, would that be considered RMT too? Why stomp down on stupid fun? How dare we as as players extend the life of your game for you!

To clarify: SE is against the explicit trade of in-game earned things for real-world items. The casino mini-game is just /random and betting, which doesn't impact the real world. The hide-and-seek tournaments are similar. SE got their first grey area over this with the Bond bracelets but they figured it wasn't a big enough deal to do anything about.

Stormwind · **02-13-2015, 09:10 AM**

(02-13-2015, 01:55 AM)Edgar Wrote: Fuck the police.

Truer words for this situation could not be more eloquently put.

Kinono · **02-13-2015, 09:12 AM**

(02-13-2015, 09:07 AM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(02-13-2015, 09:04 AM)Kinono Wrote: The no gil for art thing is stupid. Stupid but understandable. But how is casinos and raffles "RMT?" I hate them as much as the next person but SE may need a refresher on what RMT stands for. My old GW2 guild used to have IC hide and seek tournaments with huge gold pools, would that be considered RMT too? Why stomp down on stupid fun? How dare we as as players extend the life of your game for you!

To clarify: SE is against the explicit trade of in-game earned things for real-world items. The casino mini-game is just /random and betting, which doesn't impact the real world. The hide-and-seek tournaments are similar. SE got their first grey area over this with the Bond bracelets but they figured it wasn't a big enough deal to do anything about.

Well, nothing but a "could u not."

Virella · **02-13-2015, 09:26 AM**

As an artist I'm not surprised. It is a massive bummer though for people with not that much cash to spend irl, not capable of spending, or simply not wanting to spend irl currency onto art. Also a bummer for artists who had this as their ingame income.

But I have to agree. Trying to 'settle' and argument between artist and client over gil means that SE has to judge an ingame economy (what is hugely different per server as well) and the skill/time/effort the artist has put into it. Art is one of those things you cannot price, but the artist him/herself.

Nothing holds artists back from doing it though. Just as with parsers, as long you do not mention them ingame, you can get away with it.

Cannot blame the site for not wishing to step onto SE toes though and banning advertisement of it. It -could- get them in trouble after all.

SessionZero · **02-13-2015, 09:41 AM**

Still gonna offer the service, just on the down-low. I have a lot of FC members who have already asked me for art in exchange for gil.

1v1 me irl SE.

SicketySix · **02-13-2015, 09:57 AM**

C'mon now, everyone already knew this. I don't get why everyone acts so surprised?

FreelanceWizard · **02-13-2015, 10:09 AM**

(02-13-2015, 09:26 AM)Velandrea Wrote: Cannot blame the site for not wishing to step onto SE toes though and banning advertisement of it. It -could- get them in trouble after all.

Exactly so. The reason we can use the images we do (and even have the name we do!) is because we're authorized by Square-Enix under a license. That license doesn't permit us to promote prohibited activities. Is it likely that someone from SE would come by here, collect names, and drop a subpoena or DMCA takedown on my head? No, but we want to stay on the up-and-up with regards to SE's legal department. Smile

It's an individual's choice how they want to proceed given this LGM's ruling; it just can't be advertised here. We don't monitor PMs and we don't provide information to third parties except as required by law or in a very limited way to deal with harassment issues. So, take that as you will and proceed accordingly. Smile

Canary: We have not received any requests from Square-Enix's legal department.

#magicAdminHat

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Policy change: Sales of art for gil forbidden

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