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**Unnamed Mercenary** · **02-25-2015, 01:11 PM**

(02-25-2015, 01:05 PM)Kage Wrote: Are there any generals people can give to complete TT newbs?

N00bs even?

http://ffxivtriad.com/rules

But in practice, it's just kinda hellish. What we should do is assemble teams of people to "practice" with each other. Win-trading's iffy, but iirc, doesn't everyone win MGP from TT PVP?

Kage · **02-25-2015, 01:13 PM**

*General tricks and tips

Knowing the rules does not help you win a game :v

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **02-25-2015, 01:18 PM**

Plan ahead. If you know what cards an opponant has, try to make them use them in places they'll be bad in.

Like if you know opponant has a card likeÂ

Â 9
9 Â 2
Â 1

Try to make them use it in the top/left sides, instead of the bottom/right sides.Â

For the rules, Check what cards the opponentÂ has. If there's a plus/same rule, you can easily exploit their cards by matching your deck against theirs. (the starter deck works great against the King in MGS).

Kage · **02-25-2015, 01:19 PM**

Which leads me to: How do you lead them? How do you bait them?

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **02-25-2015, 01:25 PM**

(02-25-2015, 01:19 PM)Kage Wrote: Which leads me to: How do you lead them? How do you bait them?

Put a card that will "tempt" them to beat it. Like if you have a card that looks like

Â 2
3 Â 4
Â 1

put it on the top row. It's like asking for it to get flipped. Even putting it on the bottom is like asking for it to get flipped. Sides...maybe not so much. Why expend effort to flip on a 4 if you can flip a 1 or 2?

Gegenji · **02-25-2015, 01:39 PM**

Thus the basic strategy for fighting the King. You "bait" him into playing his cards in such a way that the ones with the same numbers (like 6s and 7s) or other pairs of numbers you can easily Plus are ready to be taken advantage of.

The "standard" method I've seen (and used, it works okay for the most part, but only when you're first and he won't always play by the rules) is to put Dodo in bottom right, then Mandragora in the top left, Couerl in bottom left, and Sabotender in top right. If he's playing along, he will have placed his cards in such a way that leaves the middle free (usually the last card dropped is Urianger, but sometimes it's Bahamut?). Dropping the Bomb (hee) in the last slot will cause a chain-Plus combo that will net you the win.

And, once you actually understand how Plus works, you can start trying to adapt and using the numerous same-number and minor-number-variations of the starter cards to enact Pluses when he doesn't want to play along. I don't win all the time, but figuring out how Plus actually worked helped me pull out more victories against him.

Kage · **02-25-2015, 01:41 PM**

I know how Plus works but putting it into practice and baiting him to do what I want is a whole other matter entirely :c

Gegenji · **02-25-2015, 01:51 PM**

(02-25-2015, 01:41 PM)Kage Wrote: I know how Plus works but putting it into practice and baiting him to do what I want is a whole other matter entirely :c

Yeah, it isn't fool-proof, but I've had better luck with that strategy than the Dodo/Sabotender/Couerl/Ixal/Godbert deck. Though that might be because I got only the most general gist of how to pilot it (getting into CCG terms now!) from two short matches shown in a minute and a half Youtube video. I don't know what baits are supposed to go where since the key point in the Ixal/Godbert deck is getting the Ixal in the upper right corner to chain everything rather than Dropping the Bomb (I will never stop calling it that).

Also, it just seems like the starter deck, once you get the feel for using it against the King, has a lot more flexibility in dealing with his alternate plays. Even just causing an early plus to flip his Godbert and his Bahamut or what have you can put you ahead just enough to eke out a win. Just save Sabotender and Bomb for those, since those three sets of three will help make or break the match. Dodo, Mandragora, and Couerl are mainly there as bait.

Arrelaine · **02-25-2015, 02:04 PM**

(02-25-2015, 12:55 PM)Gegenji Wrote:
(02-25-2015, 12:51 PM)Arrelaine Wrote: I still haven't gotten a card from King. :< That and the plus rule doesn't -always- seem to work for me, even if it's the exact same numbers.

It took a pretty specific example to get me to understand Plus.

The idea was that there was a card above that has a 6 as its bottom number, and a card on the right has a 7 as its left number. So, putting a card that has a 4 up top AND a 3 as its right number would plus them both, because both equal 10 (6+4 and 7+3). And, then it can combo-chain if such a thing happens with the newly flipped card and another card (or cards) adjacent to it.

Realizing that it's just making two sides add up to the same number cleared up so much confusion for me, including why the hell it was called Plus.

Yeah, it's not that I don't get it, it's just that it won't do it sometimes. Say the two sides are 3+4, and then the next sides that touch are 3+4 exactly, I still can't get it to plus. I'm not the only one who's been boggled by it, I'm not sure if it's a problem with the coding, or if it's just a plain bug. The combo you get if the cards next to the cards flipped are weaker than the ones flipped.

Gegenji · **02-25-2015, 02:07 PM**

(02-25-2015, 02:04 PM)Arrelaine Wrote:
(02-25-2015, 12:55 PM)Gegenji Wrote:
(02-25-2015, 12:51 PM)Arrelaine Wrote: I still haven't gotten a card from King. :< That and the plus rule doesn't -always- seem to work for me, even if it's the exact same numbers.

It took a pretty specific example to get me to understand Plus.

The idea was that there was a card above that has a 6 as its bottom number, and a card on the right has a 7 as its left number. So, putting a card that has a 4 up top AND a 3 as its right number would plus them both, because both equal 10 (6+4 and 7+3). And, then it can combo-chain if such a thing happens with the newly flipped card and another card (or cards) adjacent to it.

Realizing that it's just making two sides add up to the same number cleared up so much confusion for me, including why the hell it was called Plus.

Yeah, it's not that I don't get it, it's just that it won't do it sometimes. Say the two sides are 3+4, and then the next sides that touch are 3+4 exactly, I still can't get it to plus. I'm not the only one who's been boggled by it, I'm not sure if it's a problem with the coding, or if it's just a plain bug. The combo you get if the cards next to the cards flipped are weaker than the ones flipped.

Are you trying to make the 3s and the 4s are paired off (3-against-3 and 4-against-4, which wouldn't work, since 6 =/= 8), or are you making it so that the 3s are against the 4s and vice versa (leading to two 3-against-4s, which makes two 7s total, which SHOULD work)?

Basically, are you doing this:

8
4
4
- 3 3 6

When you need to do this:

7
4
3
- 4 3 7

Arrelaine · **02-25-2015, 02:16 PM**

(02-25-2015, 02:07 PM)Gegenji Wrote:
(02-25-2015, 02:04 PM)Arrelaine Wrote:
(02-25-2015, 12:55 PM)Gegenji Wrote:
(02-25-2015, 12:51 PM)Arrelaine Wrote: I still haven't gotten a card from King. :< That and the plus rule doesn't -always- seem to work for me, even if it's the exact same numbers.

It took a pretty specific example to get me to understand Plus.

The idea was that there was a card above that has a 6 as its bottom number, and a card on the right has a 7 as its left number. So, putting a card that has a 4 up top AND a 3 as its right number would plus them both, because both equal 10 (6+4 and 7+3). And, then it can combo-chain if such a thing happens with the newly flipped card and another card (or cards) adjacent to it.

Realizing that it's just making two sides add up to the same number cleared up so much confusion for me, including why the hell it was called Plus.

Yeah, it's not that I don't get it, it's just that it won't do it sometimes. Say the two sides are 3+4, and then the next sides that touch are 3+4 exactly, I still can't get it to plus. I'm not the only one who's been boggled by it, I'm not sure if it's a problem with the coding, or if it's just a plain bug. The combo you get if the cards next to the cards flipped are weaker than the ones flipped.

Are you trying to make the 3s and the 4s are paired off (3-against-3 and 4-against-4, which wouldn't work, since 6 =/= 8), or are you making it so that the 3s are against the 4s and vice versa (leading to two 3-against-4s, which makes two 7s total, which SHOULD work)?

Basically, are you doing this:

8
4
4
- Â 3 Â 3 6

When you need to do this:

7
4
3
- Â 4 Â 3 7

Nope, exactly as I said, one side will have 3, the side touching will have 4 and say, the bottom number of the second card has a 3, and the top of the next number has 4. Sometimes the numbers are different, but have the same sum, and it doesn't work. I've cheesed him 7 times with the plus rule, but it doesn't always seem to want to work.

Gegenji · **02-25-2015, 02:19 PM**

Huh, yeah, that seems like a bug considering how Plus is supposed to work. I'd recommend getting some screenshots of it so you can document the issue and present it to be fixed. It could just be that they flubbed a bit of code.

Steel Wolf · **02-25-2015, 02:21 PM**

Okay so I need a little help with how Plus works....

Could someone help me figure out--me, who sucks at the maths--how this thing works out? Cuz...again...suck at the maths. :<

Also I wanna kill King and take his stuff.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **02-25-2015, 02:30 PM**

(02-25-2015, 02:21 PM)Steel Wolf Wrote: Okay so I need a little help with how Plus works....

Could someone help me figure out--me, who sucks at the maths--how this thing works out? Â Cuz...again...suck at the maths. Â :<

Also I wanna kill King and take his stuff.

In short, plus (when the NPC has the rule) should be triggered when two or more cards are triggered by numbers that add up the same.

Â 2 Â Â 2
1 Â 3 3 Â 1
Â 4 Â Â 4
Â 2
1 Â 3
Â 4

So the blue card here would invoke a "plus" rule flipping over the two red cards, because 3+3 = 6 and 4 + 2 = 6, and 6 = 6.Â

Assuming Red wanted to take them back, they could do something like this:

Â 2 Â Â 2
1 Â 3Â 3 Â 1
Â 4 Â Â 4
Â 2 Â Â 3
1 Â 3 4 Â 2
Â 4 Â Â 1

Which would flip them back.

Â 2 Â Â 2
1 Â 3Â 3 Â 1
Â 4 Â Â 4
Â 2 Â Â 3
1 Â 3Â 4 Â 2
Â 4 Â Â Â 1

Gegenji · **02-25-2015, 02:34 PM**

(02-25-2015, 02:21 PM)Steel Wolf Wrote: Okay so I need a little help with how Plus works....

Could someone help me figure out--me, who sucks at the maths--how this thing works out? Â Cuz...again...suck at the maths. Â :<

Also I wanna kill King and take his stuff.

I kinda explained it piecemeal in a couple spots, but I'll try and condense it into a single post here, based on my understanding:

Normally, the basic rule of TT is that bigger number beats smaller number. 2 beats 1, A beats 9, and everything in-between. There's a couple variations of that in the various rulesets (Fallen Ace is a good example, where 1 > A and creates a full loop), but it is usually how it works.

However, with Plus, you get ANOTHER method for flipping cards: maff! By utilizing addition, you can overcome all sorts of cards you otherwise couldn't. And all it takes is having two cards in position to show off your maff skills.

The idea is to take one "pair" of numbers equal another "pair" of numbers, where each pair is a combination of the number on one side of your card and the adjacent number on the card next to it. If the total number of this "pair" exactly matches the total of another "pair", the two adjacent cards that made the total will become yours (if possible - you can use one of your own cards to pull off a Plus).

It was explained to me thusly:

(02-25-2015, 12:55 PM)Gegenji Wrote: The idea was that there was a card above that has a 6 as its bottom number, and a card on the right has a 7 as its left number. So, putting a card that has a 4 up top AND a 3 as its right number would plus them both, because both equal 10 (6+4 and 7+3). And, then it can combo-chain if such a thing happens with the newly flipped card and another card (or cards) adjacent to it.

In a more visible sense, let's take that card that has a 4 as its top number and a 3 on its right, with the dash being the "center" of the card since the other two numbers are irrelevant at the moment.

4
-Â 3

Now, if the bottom of the card of the card above it is 4 (all the other numbers on the card are irrelevant for this exercise), and the left of the card to the right is 3 (all other numbers again irrelevant), it won't work because the four on your card is touching the four on the above card and your card's three is touching the three of the right card. This results in an 4+4 = 8 and a 3+3 = 6, which do not match, so there is no Plus.

(02-25-2015, 02:07 PM)Gegenji Wrote: 8
4
4
- Â 3 Â 3 6

However, what if your card had the numbers swapped? Basically, it looked like this instead:

3
- 4

Well, now you will get a Plus. Why? Because the 3 on the top of your card is touching the top card's 4, and your 4 is touching the right card's 3. Both "pairs" now equal 7, which is what you need for a Plus to occur.

(02-25-2015, 02:07 PM)Gegenji Wrote: 7
4
3
- Â 4 Â 3 7

To provide another visual example, if we go back to the inital example I quoted, it'd look like this (with all extraneous numbers on the cards being irrelevant, of course):

6
4
- 3 7

With the 4 and 3 being on your card and the 6 and 7 being on their respective adjacent cards, for clarification. You're left with 6+4 = 10, and 3+7 = 10. Since both those numbers match, you get a Plus and gain control of those two adjacent cards.

Do keep in mind that this middle card in all three examples are cards you currently putting down. If, say, the card with the six bottom in the example above was put down AFTER you placed the 4/x/3/y card down, it will not suddenly become Plus'd. Instead, it will just flip your card as normal since it is the higher number.

HOWEVER, any cards that you flip WITH a Plus will also check the cards adjacent to it to see if they will cause OTHER Pluses. If there are, those cards that fit the criteria will flip and the check repeats until there are no more potential Pluses. This is the Combo, and can turn around a match quickly if you can somehow manage to cause one (which is what several of the "tactics" used against King seek to do; Plus a bunch of cards and have them Combo other cards).

(I hope that wasn't too confusing... or that Franz's more concise answer explains it clearly enough if my meandering dissertation doesn't. Blush

)

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