RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes

allgivenover · **03-02-2015, 12:18 PM**

Just make sure that if you approach RP with the overall narrative in mind like this that you are not the only one in your circle doing so or things will head in a not fun direction for you.

Kage · **03-02-2015, 12:21 PM**

Are you saying that in an RP that the overall narrative takes a backseat to a character's narrative?

allgivenover · **03-02-2015, 12:33 PM**

Isn't that the default state for RP?

Gegenji · **03-02-2015, 12:41 PM**

(03-02-2015, 12:21 PM)Kage Wrote: Are you saying that in an RP that the overall narrative takes a backseat to a character's narrative?

(03-02-2015, 12:33 PM)allgivenover Wrote: Isn't that the default state for RP?

Do they have to be in conflict? Can't you have an overarching narrative going on and still allow for personal character development?

Like Jancis' pilgrimages! They have an overarching narrative going - extolling and celebrating the Twelve - and yet you can have all sorts of personal mini-plots going on between the participants.

Kage · **03-02-2015, 12:44 PM**

(03-02-2015, 12:33 PM)allgivenover Wrote: Isn't that the default state for RP?

How would I know? I'm not the one answering a question with another question. If you want to be passive aggressive about a genuine question and a discussion, I'm not holding a gun to your head to have it.

(03-02-2015, 10:13 AM)Dogberry Wrote: Yeah, Frank Sobotka is the leader of the Baltimore chapter of the "International Brotherhood of Stevedores" (basically the fictionalized version of the International Longshoremen's Association) at the Port of Baltimore. I'd love to see RP dealing with corruption in Limsa Lominsa's ports.

I might be quite enjoying the fact that Amazon Prime allows for all 5 seasons to be in HD for prime accounts. :V

Would this allow for some.... human trafficking (and deaths), with political contributions to ship captains under the Admiral's command and some sort of heroin drug?

allgivenover · **03-02-2015, 12:47 PM**

Of course they don't have to be in conflict. Every roleplayer has thier own mix of narrative vs character motivation, and I do believe that most lean toward the latter. My point is that if everyone else you associate with is 80/20 character/narrative and you are operating at 60/40 narrative/character then you are not likely going to have fun.

Numbers chosen are arbitrary and just for example.

allgivenover · **03-02-2015, 12:53 PM**

(03-02-2015, 12:44 PM)Kage Wrote:
(03-02-2015, 12:33 PM)allgivenover Wrote: Isn't that the default state for RP?
How would I know? I'm not the one answering a question with another question. If you want to be passive aggressive about a genuine question and a discussion, I'm not holding a gun to your head to have it.

Wow. I put a question mark there because I honestly don't know myself and just believe it to be so. If you got a passive agreesive tone there it was entirely injected by you.

I know I'm a bit of a pariah around here, but seriously not all my posts are snark. Hell most of them aren't.

Berrod Armstrong · **03-02-2015, 12:56 PM**

I think it is up to the discretion and management of the roleplayer to balance both character and group narratives! It may be tricky at times, but all it takes is some thought, an open mind, and perhaps a personal guildline or two!

Gegenji · **03-02-2015, 01:01 PM**

(03-02-2015, 12:47 PM)allgivenover Wrote: Of course they don't have to be in conflict. Every roleplayer has thier own mix of narrative vs character motivation, and I do believe that most lean toward the latter. My point is that if everyone else you associate with is 80/20 character/narrative and you are operating at 60/40 narrative/character then you are not likely going to have fun.

Numbers chosen are arbitrary and just for example.

I think the focus on character motivation comes from the fact that it's the one thing we can clearly affect in the game with minimal effort. Having a grander narrative requires a lot of work and cooperation with other people. So, for some the event isn't "Halone's Pilgrimage" as it is "Ensurt Naymhiir goes to the Halone Pilgrimage", if I may use my example again. So it's their own personal take on the overarching narrative, and you can still have fun with that.

It only becomes a problem when one side (either side) starts imposing overly much on the other. The character decides that - since they don't actually like Halone - they're going to cut the pilgrimage short by attacking one of the musicians. Or, conversely, if those present try to force the participants to become followers of Halone and Halone alone.

Again, though, such things could still work... but only if everyone is okay with it. If folks want to have a bit of conflict in an otherwise peaceful event, it can still be done... just as a character might like to deal with a pilgrimage-turned-cult. It comes down to the Big Word in RP - communication.

Cato · **03-02-2015, 01:09 PM**

The biggest obstacle is often finding like-minded role-players to indulge in grand tales of adventure involving meaningful consequences and genuine character depth. In my experience a significant chunk of role-players in MMO's are content to indulge in 'tavern' and 'romance' role-play whilst very rarely touching upon anything else.

Not that there's anything wrong with that sort of role-play, it's just a shame that it's so prominent and that the role-players who are up for grander plots are frigid to those outside their little groups or simply think far too highly of themselves to make interaction with them enjoyable.

Personally I've always made it a point to develop my characters in such a way as to leave them open to being injured or killed; especially if I feel as though their core tale has been told.

Gegenji · **03-02-2015, 01:22 PM**

(03-02-2015, 01:09 PM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: The biggest obstacle is often finding like-minded role-players to indulge in grand tales of adventure involving meaningful consequences and genuine character depth. In my experience a significant chunk of role-players in MMO's are content to indulge in 'tavern' and 'romance' role-play whilst very rarely touching upon anything else.

But could they not be "content" just because they are unwilling or afraid to put in the effort for a grander arc about their character? Such grand tales require not only a lot of work, but cooperation as well. It's all well and good to have a great plan ("I want my character to brave the depths of the Crystal Tower in search of their missing sister!") but setting it all into motion is another matter entirely.

Folks may not have the time or the willingness to coordinate such things. However, they may be willing to participate in those of others should they become aware of it and can find a way for their characters to jump in. However, those who can craft such adventures and adapt for all the different types participating are few and far between.

Alternatively, perhaps they see their progression in the dungeons and such AS their grand tales of adventure, and prefer to have the RP as their downtime. Their return from their hunts and their delves, to relax and unwind over a pint of ale and a story or two. I would figure such a person wouldn't want to leap headlong again into adventure after just coming down from one.

And what of folks who aren't adventurers? The merchants and barkeeps and commoners? While an adventure might be thrilling to them, it would also likely be well outside their depth. They're no fighters, so they may very well be content enough to hear tell of the adventures of others... or seek a simpler adventure in romantic conquest.

And would these things not have meaningful consequence and character depth as well? How a character treats a loved one can speak loads, and the interactions between them can leave to quite meaningful results... either in marriage or even a nasty break-up. Character progression doesn't have to come from the end of a sword.

Dogberry · **03-02-2015, 01:28 PM**

(03-02-2015, 12:44 PM)Kage Wrote:
(03-02-2015, 10:13 AM)Dogberry Wrote: Yeah, Frank Sobotka is the leader of the Baltimore chapter of the "International Brotherhood of Stevedores" (basically the fictionalized version of the International Longshoremen's Association) at the Port of Baltimore. I'd love to see RP dealing with corruption in Limsa Lominsa's ports.
I might be quite enjoying the fact that Amazon Prime allows for all 5 seasons to be in HD for prime accounts. :V

Would this allow for some.... human trafficking (and deaths), with political contributions to ship captains under the Admiral's command and some sort of heroin drug?

Human trafficking is covered pretty extensively in the Rogue quest line, and Somnus is basically opium. There's corruption in just about any government, and I imagine quite a few Maelstrom captains still have that old Pirate mentality. Though there's quite a bit of apathy in the Baltimore Police Department that I just don't see the Maelstrom having. The Maelstrom is a new concept to Limsa Lominsa, and Merlwyb seems to be a popular leader. A lot of people under her are going to be True Believers, as opposed to the jaded bureaucrats in The Wire.

Gaspard · **03-02-2015, 01:29 PM**

You're making a logical mistake in your example, and your raised question in regards to roleplay;

The example of death you've quoted from the Wire was so that the story had something to feed on. a key moment to move the story forward. That was a decision a director made pertaining to a figure from literature. See the boy die (Even with his personal implication of liking the character), so that the story gets the necessary panache (Because the story goes first).

So far so good. So you have the director sacrifice a character for the progress of the story.Â

ergo;

A singular Writer/Director kills of a Character in the singular narrative that he writes/oversees.

Now, In roleplay, you do not have a singular narrative. There's no singular story to follow. Infact, in Roleplay you're not the Director, you are more of an Actor. Every single player follows his own characters narrative UNTIL you decide to switch from organic/open RP (actions/consequences entirely free and unrestrained) and switch towards Story writing RP (Actions/consequences are shaped to adhere your character but also to enable the progress of the desired Narrative that includes others).Â

Another big kicker is that Roleplayers often do not only seek to own their Character, but also their Characters Story. The distinction is important for the following reason;

If a person just focuses on maintaining character, you can literally throw his character at anything. Alien invasion, Zombie Moogles, A trip to hell, or grocery shopping with Ul'dahs prom Queen. Maintaining Character simply means that the character IN that scenario will undoubtly react how he should react to it, yet he sees no claim to where his character would end up in, or what he would face. If he'll be encountered with a lethal force he'll roleplay out dying, if he'll encounter poisonous gas he'll roleplay out dying form that slowly, if he'll encounter a rock-slide burrying him he'll get squished. The point is, to maintain character, you needn't control over narrative.Â

But that's not how most people roleplay. We don't just remain in character, and react. We also own our characters story, and therein, the narrative and actions of our characters.Â

So, to answer your initial question ;Â

Quote:So I'm curious, have you made decisions to promote a better story? Did your characters ever go through something that, while it would not have been 100% in character at the time, would enrich the story? I'm not saying complete 180 but did you have to think of a way to steer your character a certain way to make it in character with the ultimate reason being a better story?

((You have no idea how much I was trying to imagine something like a Wire tap crew investigation working on a big drug trade organization like the Barksdale Organization or the Co-Op. @_@ Complete with Brass Blades of Ul'dah and some Maelstrom made high-potency drugs or something. And codes.))

I'll address this portion by portion;

First, and this should be almost biblical law to every roleplayer; NEVER break Character. While others can never tell you if you do or do not break Character, you yourself will know. There's alot of immersion for yourself that you will ruin if you have your character wash up / apart in order to satisfy someone else, and more importantly, this dis-satisfaction WILL wash over into your play, therein making your portrayal of your character the way you want to portray him skewed. Think like an Actor; You want to deliver the best performance you can.

However;

That doesn't translate into "Never cooperate". While you should never break character, you can, and should BEND and SHARE narrative. If you're imaginative enough, you can have your most vile enemies work together if both parties do the right things with the narrative. Take for example X-men Comics. They constantly toss their characters at almost ridiculous scenarios, but seldomnly is character broken in any of those. All it takes is a NPC here, a vile action there, a bit of drafting on both sides to make almost anything possible without anyone ever having to break character.

Which leads me to my last point ; Your initial post kind of tackled a massive amount of points, such as ; consequence, narrative, character integrity, story progress, IC/OOC seperation, and so on. I could keep writing on this for days on end, and still not give you a satisfying answer. I guess what it all boils down to is the following ; Make the quality of your Roleplay your personal responsibility. That is the only way you'll get the specific Quality of Roleplay out of it that you seek.

Cato · **03-02-2015, 01:31 PM**

(03-02-2015, 01:22 PM)Gegenji Wrote:
(03-02-2015, 01:09 PM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: The biggest obstacle is often finding like-minded role-players to indulge in grand tales of adventure involving meaningful consequences and genuine character depth. In my experience a significant chunk of role-players in MMO's are content to indulge in 'tavern' and 'romance' role-play whilst very rarely touching upon anything else.

But could they not be "content" just because they are unwilling or afraid to put in the effort for a grander arc about their character? Such grand tales require not only a lot of work, but cooperation as well. It's all well and good to have a great plan ("I want my character to brave the depths of the Crystal Tower in search of their missing sister!") but setting it all into motion is another matter entirely.

Folks may not have the time or the willingness to coordinate such things. However, they may be willing to participate in those of others should they become aware of it and can find a way for their characters to jump in. However, those who can craft such adventures and adapt for all the different types participating are few and far between.

Alternatively, perhaps they see their progression in the dungeons and such AS their grand tales of adventure, and prefer to have the RP as their downtime. Their return from their hunts and their delves, to relax and unwind over a pint of ale and a story or two. I would figure such a person wouldn't want to leap headlong again into adventure after just coming down from one.

And what of folks who aren't adventurers? The merchants and barkeeps and commoners? While an adventure might be thrilling to them, it would also likely be well outside their depth. They're no fighters, so they may very well be content enough to hear tell of the adventures of others... or seek a simpler adventure in romantic conquest.

And would these things not have meaningful consequence and character depth as well? How a character treats a loved one can speak loads, and the interactions between them can leave to quite meaningful results... either in marriage or even a nasty break-up. Character progression doesn't have to come from the end of a sword.

You don't need to be a hero to have a grand tale. You could spin a civilian's encounter with a regular bandit into a grand adventure if you wanted to and I've done just that in the past. I suspect it may simply be a culture thing - in other MMO's that I've played the atmosphere and attitude towards role-play has been completely different.

Like I said, it's not necessarily a bad thing - everyone is welcome to do what they want, after all! Though it's most definitely proving to be a culture shock as the sort of role-play I seek doesn't seem to be as common as it is elsewhere. Which makes me consider just using FFXIV for PvE related matters and 'light' role-play whilst indulging elsewhere for something a bit more meaty.

Gegenji · **03-02-2015, 01:38 PM**

(03-02-2015, 01:31 PM)Graeham Ridgefield Wrote: You don't need to be a hero to have a grand tale. You could spin a civilian's encounter with a regular bandit into a grand adventure if you wanted to and I've done just that in the past. I suspect it may simply be a culture thing - in other MMO's that I've played the atmosphere and attitude towards role-play has been completely different.

I'm just positing that it doesn't have to be a straight physical conflict like that. What about forgetting your anniversary with your girlfriend? A whirlwind of panic and running around town at the last minute to procure a gift for her and try to avoid being stuck sleeping on the couch or worse. Wouldn't that be an adventure of its own?

Or maybe your character doesn't care. Each day is special, so this is just one more in a long line of wonderful days. However, you still have to explain that to her, so she understands that you don't need special holidays to know how important she is. Or maybe she's just a fling and you deal with the fallout and start on a new hunt for a new conquest.

Each can be thrilling and engaging, each can be an "adventure", and each can show the depths of your character - in this case, their feelings on love and relationships.

Or, to get away from romance. What about a merchant? He finds out that one of the items he sold was flawed or a fraud! Are they being scammed, or is this truly an err on his part? He might have to track down where and how this happened so the integrity of his product remains strong! Perhaps it just turns out that, in the end, one of his artisans stayed up late the night before to celebrate their kid's birthday and was woozy at work, resulting in a slip-up. A few harsh words, a promise that wouldn't happen again, and everything is better.

An event, a conflict, and resolution all without having to actually draw steel or be forced to deal with bandits/monsters/big bads. That's all I'm getting it. It just seems a lot of the examples you're providing insist that violence and such is needed, as opposed to a more... I guess you could call it "mundane" sort of conflict or adventure, loathe as I am to use such a term. That might not be your intent at all, of course, I'm just saying for the sake of debate here.

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Decisions Made to Promote a "better" story

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