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**Unnamed Mercenary** · **04-17-2015, 11:00 AM**

(04-17-2015, 10:54 AM)Casden Reeves Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 10:52 AM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote:
(04-17-2015, 10:46 AM)Casden Reeves Wrote: Hold up your fist.
Hold up a 2yr olds fist.

Even if the 2yr old can punch with the same force and velocity that you can, it can only hit a relatively small portion of your face. Hit the baby in the face and you hit their skull, nose, eyes, chin, not to mention crush their forehead.

So even pound for pound, force for force, velocity for velocity, on equal terms, with equal power, the larger will win.

Another example if you will. Pretend there is a paper wall in front of you. Pick up a small mortar brick and throw it through the paper wall. Now do the same with a standard cement block. Which did the most damage?

And again, I understand that this is all based on a real life system, and FFXIV is a fantasy game, I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying that realistically, it's impossible if everything is even-stevens.

Assuming a lalafell fist and a highlander first both come at my face, I think I'd take the highlander one though.

Pressure = Force / Area. That lala fist is gonna hurt way more.
I'm not really sure how to argue that a broken nose is worse then a broken nose, a shattered jaw and 2 black eyes lol

Because at that same force, a Highlander's bigger hand is going to give less pressure than a Lalafell's?

The classic debate was always an elephant stop vs a woman in high heels. Assuming a constant/equal force, it still has to be exerted on an area. With a small area to exert that force on, a Lalafell's hand is gonna do -that area- much more damage because it doesn't need to be spread out.

Perhaps I know nothing about fighting, but I also can't see how a single punch of a fist could get the jaw, eyes, and nose.

Gegenji · **04-17-2015, 11:03 AM**

I think the point Franz is trying to make is that the more focused punch would apply more energy to that one point as opposed to spreading over a larger fist's surface area. To wit, a Lalafell's punch to the jaw with the same force would theoretically be more likely to break that jaw than a Highlander's because all that energy is more concentrated on that one point on the jaw. This is, again, assuming that both are hitting with the exact same force, which a Lalafell may or may not have to put more effort into.

Warren Castille · **04-17-2015, 11:05 AM**

An angry man grabs you by the wrist, places your hand flat on a table and drives the instrument he's holding down straight into the back of it with all of his might.

What side do you want facing down?

[Image: therionarms_c1109i.jpg]

Melkire · **04-17-2015, 12:01 PM**

The side of the wooden handle.

Harmonixer · **04-17-2015, 12:40 PM**

I swear we need an fourth wall breaking Mythbusters crew for this game.

So, this isn't an incredibly flattering story but I'll share it as best I can.

When I was younger and in highschool I thought it brilliant to spit some game at a fine young lady in the seat behind me. Much to my surprise, her very short, stocky brother was within earshot.

While she was quite charmed by my dashing advances, he was not. So, when the bell rang, I felt a tiny, yet burly pair of arms wrap around my legs, lifting me up off the ground. Before I realized it, I had been deposited in a nearby trashcan and informed that I was to rethink my decision.

If it had not happened to me, I never would have believed it. I stand at around 6' and that fellow could not have been more than 5'nothing.

I never exchanged blows with this guy myself, but I witnessed several occasions where braver ones that myself did. They did not end well, many times it was hardly amusing and almost horrifying.

I wouldn't say this closes the book on it, but it's since tainted my opinion on the subject.

'Don't fuck with the little guy'

SicketySix · **04-17-2015, 02:30 PM**

Bullet vs Cannonball. You get shot with a bullet, you may yet live. You take a 6" cannonball and you might live, but your chances are not near as great.

And as far as what Warren asked, it's rather simple. Neither.
But if it was a have to choose kind of thing, I'd take the small pointy end. It would puncture straight thru you hand in a small centralized area. The flat brunt end would shatter every bone in your hand.

I don't have much experience in construction much beyond framing pool decks and pouring concrete, but I do know that I'd much rather put a nail thru my palm than to smash it with a sledgehammer. I put a nail thru my hand once, and my brother who works full time in construction has done it twice. You just pull the nail out, wrap it up and keep going. Meanwhile, who's buddy was holding a stake while it was being pounded into the gravel while framing a pool had his hand smashed with said sledgehammer, to this day he still can't use his hand much.

Stormsrage00 · **04-17-2015, 02:31 PM**

The natural world is certainly full of examples where seemingly smaller creatures are filled with power. It may be possible, and certainly not outside the realm of physics, that the Lalafel have denser muscle-fibers in proportion to their bodies than those of the larger races.

Take a look at an orangutan for example. An average female weighs in at about 100 lbs yet is still phenomenally much stronger than the average human being.

Should this make Lalafel equal or greater in strength than the larger races is purely an academic debate, in my opinion. What I'm saying is that it is not physically impossible for a smaller being to show strength rivaling or surpassing that of an average human or hyur as the case may be.

Gegenji · **04-17-2015, 02:48 PM**

(04-17-2015, 02:31 PM)Stormsrage00 Wrote: Take a look at an orangutan for example. An average female weighs in at about 100 lbs yet is still phenomenally much stronger than the average human being.

Man, I knew that fact too and shoulda used it. Oh well. That basically ties in to my whole lack of an "even-steven" situation comment a few posts back.

Ultimately, though, whether it's a Roe or a Lala, you're probably going to not want to be punched in the face by either. Through whether mechanics of physiology or whatever, a Lalafell can hit as hard as basically any of the other races. Whether they have to train harder to do it, use a differing style of attack, or just naturally have the same levels of power... there's plenty of ways that we can use to explain it.

So, one shouldn't just brush off being hit by a Lalafell "because they're a Lalafell." However, conversely, Lalafell shouldn't try to perform maneuvers that - while they may be able to do through strength of arm - become more of a physics problem than anything else (i.e. suplexes). And, unless you're a tiny Hulk, you're probably not going to be able to bodily toss a fully armored Roe like he's a ragdoll without some serious explanation.

But ultimately? It's just a matter of communication and concession between those you're RPing with. As with, well, everything in RP. Just as your opponent shouldn't write you off out of hand for being a Lalafell, so too should you at least show enough respect in your opponent's prowess not to just headbutt his punch and shatter his hand in the process. Unless that's what you've agreed on amongst each other to have happen - since that would be a rather rad way to block an attack...

... I'm rambling.

V'aleera · **04-17-2015, 02:48 PM**

I'm having a hard time understanding why this thread was restarted on the premise of conventional physics AFTER the release of the Heavensward opening.

The laws of physics are wonderful things, but Eorzea exists in a different jurisdiction.

Warren Castille · **04-17-2015, 02:52 PM**

(04-17-2015, 02:48 PM)Intaki Wrote: I'm having a hard time understanding why this thread was restarted on the premise of conventional physics AFTER the release of the Heavensward opening.

The laws of physics are wonderful things, but Eorzea exists in a different jurisdiction.

As the guy who bumped it, I can answer that question!

The gif I bumped it shows a rank-and-file Amalj'aa raider punch a man in full armor and have him fly bodily out of the frame. I wanted to see if that addressed anything. Given the couple of pages of conversation for folks unaware this thread was buried, I'd like to think it did?

Bigger person punches smaller person = person goes elsewhere.

Gegenji · **04-17-2015, 03:21 PM**

(04-17-2015, 02:52 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: Bigger person punches smaller person = person goes elsewhere.

If bigger person has enough strength to move smaller person! Which, in the case of a big burly lizard man with arms as thick as the other guy's torso? Yes, yes he does.

V'aleera · **04-17-2015, 03:26 PM**

But at the same time, in the aforementioned Heavensward opener, when the big bad bridge dragon gets hit by single incoming dragoons much smaller than himself he winds up being completely thrown off the bridge (as much as an airborne entity can be "thrown off" of anything).

Gegenji · **04-17-2015, 03:38 PM**

(04-17-2015, 03:26 PM)Intaki Wrote: But at the same time, in the aforementioned Heavensward opener, when the big bad bridge dragon gets hit by single incoming dragoons much smaller than himself he winds up being completely thrown off the bridge (as much as an airborne entity can be "thrown off" of anything).

Hell of a lot of power there! Dragon power!

Kage · **04-17-2015, 03:47 PM**

Funny anecdote. When Kage returned to grindstone (also coincidentally the largest turn out ever), Whran'a, someone he beat in full armor [w'hran] once before with his sword and shield then lost to him when whran was barely clothed at all and kage 's shiny axe.

Kage flew twice. The second time Kage nope'd out.

I don't know what I was getting at. But yeah. I think we can all agree we don't have definitive what how's (my questioned for this wasn't answered at the lore panel) but in some way or form Lalafell can match their opponents. But after Lalafell uprisings and so forth I don't see why they can't be taken with martial prowess.

Marshal Tarupin is a disciple of war. They wouldn't post one lalafell as a single paired guard if they didn't expect the Lalafell to match his partner. Like you'll see places guarded by two hyur. You see a place guarded by a single hyur. In that same tone you don't see well 3 or 4 lalafell in the place of one hyur. It's one lalafell guard to one hyur.

In that same cutscene you also see other brass blades match and lock in a fight with a bigger Amal'jaa. So... ok.

Momo · **08-05-2015, 05:55 PM**

Not sure we've talked about this enough! Â Only 14 pages?! Â Not nearly enough Lalafell-centric talk for me!

Let me have a say on this:

Lala can -in the game- do what they want. Â They can be heavily armored soldiers, they can be swift ninjas, they can be heavy handed monks, and so far, none of these options have been strictly prohibited by SE in any way. Â In the RP community, sure, we have all these opinions of what one race can and can't do over another: we have some making Roe physically stronger than others, we have some saying that there shouldn't be as many Miqos as there are statistically because of lore, we have some saying clearly that Lalafell, because of our size, cannot possibly be as strong or sturdy as other races because of physics. Â So I am going to give a little background on who is affected by this kind of discussion and what one could think after reading it.

Momo, formerly a Tarutaru from XI, which was created at that game's opening, is now over 10-11 years later, a Lalafell. Â I (the long time RPer of Momo) pick up my copy of FFXIV 1.0, get home, set everything up, and join the game and the RPC basically simultaneously, back when there were not more than a few hundred at most on this forum. Â I am excited! Â I played a Tarutaru for years, now I get to basically adopt a really similar race, and with FFXIV I get to have a rich and better RP experience because of our quickly growing community. Â So Momo is born again, and I start 1.0, quickly we all realize, okay, maybe 1.0 isn't really what we may hoped it would be, it does dismally in ratings, people get fed up with it quickly, so I am a little disappointed and stop playing for a bit.

Next time I get a chance to play, I have heard that there will be a Beta for a new FFXIV and that we can play 1.0 until that happens, so I think why not, I miss my Momo and his RP. Â I do so for a while, I get into beta, I do that for a bit, then finally, Realm Reborn comes, and it isn't at the best time, but I strive to play as much as I can, and I do so without RP for a little while simply because I want to be able to build Momo up to be what I want before I start him again. Â I choose to make him a PLD, lvl him up, work hard at it, as it wasn't quite as easy then to lvl as it is now. Â I am further excited because wow, I managed to get something into my plot that I had planned all along, and I have some lvl to back it up, not 50 mind you, because I didn't want him to be the best, just to have been a PLD at some point. Â I think, okay, time to come back now to RPC! Â More excitement comes, because our community in the past has always been pretty great, lots of nice people willing to RP and be good with each other as much as an RP community can (I've RPed elsewhere, not the same I will tell you).

Here I am! Â I have returned! Â Momo lives once again! Â I continue Momo's plot, and he is now let PLD go, and decided to go onto more academic routes and become a SMN/SCH! Â I RP for a bit, build up friends and things, and have a generally good time. Â Then I start to realize. Â I may have made a mistake without knowing it all those years ago when I decided to be Tarutaru, then brought Momo to FFXIV as their correlative race, the Lalafell, because apparently the FFXIV RP community has a need to treat Lalafells with less respect than the other races. Â I didn't really think about it before, but then when I went back and started to, I realized that was correct. Â "Lore support" apparently means that, because Lalafells are small and cute, that we are maybe: kids, little pets, generally unfit to other races in the fields of romance and lo' and behold, physical endurance and strength. Â My stomach sinks a little when I think about it each time because I didn't really choose to be a Lalafell, that is the character, and Momo has a mind of his own, as you would agree most of your characters do, and he doesn't really make sense as anything else. Â So I should throw him out, or face the literal disrespect of my character because, "lore supports it" or "that is just how this world works"?

I guess what this whole story was about, is that until I recently came back to RPC, before I started posting again, more when I started reading through threads. Â I realized that something about my character which I didn't like, was apparently forced on to him, and that many RPers supported it because they just don't feel like it hurts anyone and they have "reasons" to back it up. Â It doesn't seem astounding to you probably if you aren't Lalafell, or don't have a Lalafell character, because, well honestly, Lalafell are unique characters who are often played by pretty unique people. Â If that weren't the case, we probably would be a much bigger category in the RPC Race pole of which we are last or nearly last place. Â We feel like we fit in as Lalas in this community, or that we are at least supposed to. Â We are entirely different than other races, but we don't feel like that makes us deserve a less fair treatment for our characters. Â So, when another RPer does not play a Lalafell main character, decides it would be relevant to post a thread trying to discredit yet another of our race's abilities or treatments in the world, it kind of gets to us. Â I think that is probably the case of some of the Lala's in this thread who have posted and then had to come back and say we are sorry for not giving merit to a thread that discredits us and how we handle our characters.

I guess the above paragraph can be written off by just saying, "Ah well, don't play Momo as a Lalafell, or just don't play Momo at all if it is that hard on you?", but then I will pose whether Momo just isn't as important to me, as all the characters I see around, with a thousand pics with friends and selifes, and hard earned money spent to have specific art done for them, or done for your character out of the love of an artist who enjoys him/her? Am I not allowed to have the love for my character that others have for theirs because I "chose" to be a Lalafell or because Momo did?

From another view, there are many different cases in which the general populace of Ala Mhigo (predominantly of Highlander race) seem to be unintelligent, but I, as a Lalafell RPer, have yet to post a thread using lore or dismissing cases to the opposite, that reads: "Ala Mhigans, Should They Treated as Intelligent People?". Â Because guess what, on a case by case basis, sure an Ala Mhigan Highlander could be dumb, but there are also cases of the opposite, and it would be up to each individual RPer to decide that, particularly when it is a race that I do not play, and wouldn't understand how to handle personally. Â I would also feel as if I meant to insult that race or peoples otherwise, because I have no standing with them for the most part.

One last thing. Â When a fighting event is hosted on the grounds and by the rules of rolling randoms, do you include Lalafells because by random roll we could win a battle even bare-handed, or because, for all intents and purposes within the game and shown by lore, we can fight at just the same skill level and strength of races 2-3 times our size, and we deserve just the same treatment as other races? Â Or does that last option seem somehow "unfair" to you?

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Lalafell, strength and you! Light up the Sounsyy Signal.

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