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Zhavi · **04-22-2015, 03:25 PM**

(edited for clarity because I forgot a major component in the explanation)
Oh, what the hell. In the complaint/rant thread, a common theme is that people want feedback on their writing, and often feel ignored, slighted, or miserable when they get nothing after putting themselves out there.

So this is a thread that I've seen thrive in the Nanowrimo forums, and maybe it will thrive here. First, do some constructive criticism for the person above you with whatever segment they've linked. Then, post a link to a post (please don't ask someone to concrit an entire thread) or a section of your wiki that you would like someone to concrit on.

When you do the concrit portion, please do not toss out a throwaway one liner (ie, That was wonderful, don't change anything! or Man, you really need to improve.). Point to at least one specific plus and one specific minus, and offer any suggestions you might have. No one has to agree with concrits, but it can be of valuable aid for improving and hearing about what you're doing wrong vs right.

So, for starters, hit up the personality section of Zhi's wiki, as found in my sig. Smile

No Longer Exists · **04-22-2015, 03:58 PM**

Zhavi, do you mean Critique?

criÂ·tique
kriËˆtÄ“k/Submit
noun
1.
a detailed analysis and assessment of something, especially a literary, philosophical, or political theory.
synonyms: analysis, evaluation, assessment, appraisal, appreciation, criticism, review, study, commentary, exposition, exegesis
"a critique of North American culture"
verb
verb: critique; 3rd person present: critiques; past tense: critiqued; past participle: critiqued; gerund or present participle: critiquing
1.
evaluate (a theory or practice) in a detailed and analytical way.
"the authors critique the methods and practices used in the research"

Melkire · **04-22-2015, 04:00 PM**

"Concrit" as in "constructive criticism."

I'd concrit Zhavi but I'm hard at work right now. I'll leave it to the next poster. Smile

No Longer Exists · **04-22-2015, 04:02 PM**

Huh! What a wonderful term! I've never heard it before until this very moment. lol

Thanks for clearing that up!

Zhavi · **04-22-2015, 04:03 PM**

(04-22-2015, 03:58 PM)Black Hat Wrote: Zhavi, do you mean Critique?

criÂ·tique
kriËˆtÄ“k/Submit
noun
1.
a detailed analysis and assessment of something, especially a literary, philosophical, or political theory.
synonyms: analysis, evaluation, assessment, appraisal, appreciation, criticism, review, study, commentary, exposition, exegesis
"a critique of North American culture"
verb
verb: critique; 3rd person present: critiques; past tense: critiqued; past participle: critiqued; gerund or present participle: critiquing
1.
evaluate (a theory or practice) in a detailed and analytical way.
"the authors critique the methods and practices used in the research"

Apologies: concrit is a shorthand way of saying 'constructive critique' or 'constructive criticism.' It's been used pretty widely on the writing forums I've frequented as a means to discourage people from being too gungho on ripping into peoples' writing. While ripping into a person's writing can be an excellent way to improve, there are numerous people for whom that does not work -- and so it's better to let someone request getting their writing ripped to shreds, and the word 'concrit' is a gentle way to remind people of that.

edit -curses, foiled again!

Gegenji · **04-23-2015, 09:56 AM**

Well, I took a look at your personality block there, Zhavi. I've never considered myself the best writer or critique-r, but I'll give it my best shot.

Quote:Zhi is social. Zhi is so social she could make your teeth hurt from the meaningless patter that leaves her mouth. She's all about making contacts and collecting information and potential employers. As such, she only makes for a good listener when there's something in it for her, and is not above leaving mid-conversation should she determine nothing worth her time is forthcoming. Still, she knows her own version of polite (though her manners never quite rise above street), and is capable of being some sort of sweet when she works at it.

First and foremost, the flow on this first paragraph seems... off? Almost conflicting. It opens with how Zhi is so social and likes making contacts, but then does a heel-turn and states how - despite being social - she will walk out on "useless" conversation. It makes... sense? But also seems a bit jarring for me.

I'd add something to smooth the flow. Such as "However, that doesn't mean she'll gab with anyone about anything - if there's nothing worth her time, she's not above leaving a conversation right in the middle of it." Something like that.

Quote:She's not the sort of person to hide her expressions, choosing to keep what she's really thinking and feeling hidden behind a veil of over-exaggerated emotion.

This one is equally awkward. It reads to me as "She doesn't hide expressions, but this is how she hides her expressions." Perhaps something more along the lines of "While she's not the sort of person to hide her expressions, she still disguises her true intentions and thoughts behind a veil of over-exaggerated emotion."

I will say, though, that I love the bit on her views on religion. She's all "yeah, yeah, they're there" and doesn't give them much thought... until she really needs their help. I can totally see her going with the old standby quote of "God, I've never asked you for nothin', but..." when in a desperate plea to the Heavens.

Um... I hope that works? I really haven't done much work in constructive criticism since... high school or so? So I hope what I said makes sense. Blush

As for what I'd like critiqued, while I'd love some overall feedback on my Gogon story, I know that's asking a bit much (and against the stated rules, no less!). So, could someone look over the latest bit I posted not too long ago and let me know what you think? I... kinda feel like I'm overplaying Gogon's paranoia a bit, but I'd like some honest feedback. Blush

Verad · **04-23-2015, 01:39 PM**

Edited: Let me scratch this and do something more complicated.

I'm crap at physical description. Thought processes, dialogue, narrative asides, these I can do quite well. But the physicality of an object is often a tertiary consideration for me at best.

Take the first post of Decades Ago, here, and help me figure out how I can make place evocative. I will get back to this story, I promise.

Aya · **04-23-2015, 02:09 PM**

(04-23-2015, 09:56 AM)Gegenji Wrote: As for what I'd like critiqued, while I'd love some overall feedback on my Gogon story, I know that's asking a bit much (and against the stated rules, no less!). So, could someone look over the latest bit I posted not too long ago and let me know what you think? I... kinda feel like I'm overplaying Gogon's paranoia a bit, but I'd like some honest feedback.

The paranoia is more than reasonable, Gogon is a paranoid based on what I have read.Â He looks at the world as a web of plots and suspicion, and that's what comes through in the piece.

Its essentially a stream of consciousness, a look in Gogon's mind, and if that's the insight its trying to provide it does a good job of it, but to me it doesn't really hold attention because it lacks a real hook, and contains no description, action, dialogue, or anything like that... its just a stream of thoughts, perception, and attitude.Â Well written, but it really doesn't seem to go anywhere (although it does go to Revenant's Toll!)Â I feel a little more aware of Gogon's psychology (but I already had some insight into that from a previous story of yours that I read), but I don't feel enriched.Â Does that make sense?

Edit: I'll also just add.. I haven't read the full story in part because I don't find Gogon very interesting (I generally dislike dark-out-for-revenge characters, they just have nothing to offer that pulls me in). I like him as a foil to Chachan, and if the story were Chachan's with Gogon as an antagonist I probably would read it. The bits and pieces of it that I have read have definitely been well and smoothly done Smile

That's not a suggestion (we all write stories because they're what we want to write, and they're not really meant to be something that everyone would like to read), but it is an observation.

Verad · **04-23-2015, 02:20 PM**

(04-23-2015, 09:56 AM)Gegenji Wrote: As for what I'd like critiqued, while I'd love some overall feedback on my Gogon story, I know that's asking a bit much (and against the stated rules, no less!). So, could someone look over theÂ latest bit I posted not too long ago and let me know what you think? I... kinda feel like I'm overplaying Gogon's paranoia a bit, but I'd like some honest feedback.

I don't think you're overplaying the paranoia here, because the overall purpose of the post is to move Gogonji to Revenant's Toll, and the paranoia is serving as more of a means to that end rather than the point of the post itself.

I actually disagree with Aya that it's a stream-of-consciousness post, because it feels too structured for that. Stream of consciousness, to me anyway, represents a more scattered form of thinking, the mind moving back and forth between several tracks, represented by a falling apart of sentence and paragraph structure. The post avoids that - Gogonji's thought process is easy to track and comes to a simple conclusion - and it's better for it. It would be a much harder thing to read if it were written like some of the classics of that mode of writing, and I don't think your purpose here is to make Gogonji impenetrable to the reader.

So the writing style and purpose is fine. My one comment comes from this:

Quote:And, while he was there, he could pick up his last Rouser - the one for his newly obtained Monk Soul Stone. Then he'd have it, all the power he needed to bring to bear to make Garlemald regret what they did. For oppressing a people they had planned from the start to set to the flame. Heck, they could even overhear some of the Lalafell's plan then - it would be too late for them anyway. Far, far too late.

That one word threw me. Gogon reads like a very formal thinker throughout the piece. Maybe that's not true in the story at large, but for a piece that's largely about his thought process, this word does not seem like part of his process.

Aya · **04-23-2015, 02:23 PM**

(04-23-2015, 02:20 PM)Verad Wrote: I actually disagree with Aya that it's a stream-of-consciousness post, because it feels too structured for that. Stream of consciousness, to me anyway, represents a more scattered form of thinking, the mind moving back and forth between several tracks, represented by a falling apart of sentence and paragraph structure. The post avoids that - Gogonji's thought process is easy to track and comes to a simple conclusion - and it's better for it. It would be a much harder thing to read if it were written like some of the classics of that mode of writing, and I don't think your purpose here is to make Gogonji impenetrable to the reader.

So the writing style and purpose is fine. My one comment comes from this:

I agree entirely with what Verad said.Â I refer to it as stream-of-consciousness because it feels that the narration is literally Gogonji's stream of thought.Â I didn't mean to suggest that it was obfuscating, hard to follow, or disorganized.Â There is a coherent and easily understandable flow to the whole thing Smile

[This probably comes down to one of us actually being man of literature and the other being a simple RPer ^_^]

Warren Castille · **04-23-2015, 02:25 PM**

(04-23-2015, 01:39 PM)Verad Wrote: I'll bite. I've been thinking of tweaking the wiki at least a little bit, but I'm not sure precisely where to start. Any suggestions?

Your wiki's got the same challenges that mine does: It reads more like a Monster Manual entry than it does a description of the character. I don't think that it needs to be tweaked much aside from keeping the various bits and bobs up to date, I don't know how to "improve" upon it.

If you were looking to spruce it up entirely, I'd suggest ripping the tab-based template some users have? It looks awfully fancy. The only thing stopping me from doing the same thing is that I don't have the drive to do it myself.

Verad · **04-23-2015, 02:26 PM**

(04-23-2015, 02:25 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:
(04-23-2015, 01:39 PM)Verad Wrote: I'll bite. I've been thinking of tweaking the wiki at least a little bit, but I'm not sure precisely where to start. Any suggestions?

Your wiki's got the same challenges that mine does: It reads more like a Monster Manual entry than it does a description of the character. I don't think that it needs to be tweaked much aside from keeping the various bits and bobs up to date, I don't know how to "improve" upon it.

If you were looking to spruce it up entirely, I'd suggest ripping the tab-based template some users have? It looks awfully fancy. The only thing stopping me from doing the same thing is that I don't have the drive to do it myself.

...Supposing I embraced the Monster Manual feel and gave him XP, Challenge Rating, and average treasure?

Aya · **04-23-2015, 02:28 PM**

(04-23-2015, 02:26 PM)Verad Wrote: ...Supposing I embraced the Monster Manual feel and gave him XP, Challenge Rating, and average treasure?

That would just scream "Verad"!

Gegenji · **04-23-2015, 04:35 PM**

(04-23-2015, 02:09 PM)Aya Wrote: Its essentially a stream of consciousness, a look in Gogon's mind, and if that's the insight its trying to provide it does a good job of it, but to me it doesn't really hold attention because it lacks a real hook, and contains no description, action, dialogue, or anything like that... its just a stream of thoughts, perception, and attitude.Â Well written, but it really doesn't seem to go anywhere (although it does go to Revenant's Toll!)Â I feel a little more aware of Gogon's psychology (but I already had some insight into that from a previous story of yours that I read), but I don't feel enriched.Â Does that make sense?

I think so. It really is sort of a transitional piece, as Verad said, with the goal of getting Gogon into place at Revenant's Toll for the next scene. I probably should've had at least tried to copy the logs of the IG RP that led to it and included that (either raw or edited into story format) as either its own post before it, or as an explanatory piece to go over what had happened rather than the rather abrupt summary Gogon gave to it...

That might have helped add some more action and dialogue to preface the look into his head. I'll have to keep that in mind for any future IG RP relating to the story...

(04-23-2015, 02:20 PM)Verad Wrote: So the writing style and purpose is fine. My one comment comes from this:

Quote:And, while he was there, he could pick up his last Rouser - the one for his newly obtained Monk Soul Stone. Then he'd have it, all the power he needed to bring to bear to make Garlemald regret what they did. For oppressing a people they had planned from the start to set to the flame. Heck, they could even overhear some of the Lalafell's plan then - it would be too late for them anyway. Far, far too late.

That one word threw me. Gogon reads like a very formal thinker throughout the piece. Maybe that's not true in the story at large, but for a piece that's largely about his thought process, this word does not seem like part of his process.

Ah, I see where you're coming from! And something simple to fix, I think! I can drop the heck and instead put something less flow-breaking, like "in fact" or something. In fact, [sub](teehee)[/sub] I did just that! Would've posted this right afterward but there were... complications at work. Sad

Warren Castille · **04-23-2015, 09:46 PM**

I'd like some critical feedback beyond "spellcheck and proofread your shit, dammit" but I don't know how to select a post.

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RPC has moved! These pages have been kept for historical purposes