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***Nero*** · **06-22-2015, 11:29 AM**

I haven't had an issue with threat or mitigation as DRK at the moment. I don't feel squishier than a warrior. The only thing is that the non-specific mitigation abilities-Shadow Skin and Shadow Wall--seem to have a bit high of a cooldown, but otherwise I've had no issue with it.

The issue I see with DRK at the moment is that when tanking a dungeon or some such, there's really no reliable ways to generate MP in a pinch if Blood Price is on cooldown. Syphon Strike is frustrating to try to weave into a rotation when you're also trying to keep enmity because DRK has no TP-using AoE threat abilities, and its basically only treading water to keep Darkside up.

Blood Price is absurdly useful but won't be up for every mob group, and it also depends on you taking damage. So if you hit blood price and your WHM casts Holy and stuns the mobs? You aren't getting any MP until those stuns wear off. If the mobs attack really slowly? You're not getting much MP because it matters more of how fast they attack than how hard they hit.

I've taken to using Blood Weapon into my rotation be activating Shadow Skin, deactivating Grit, then activating Blood Weapon to regenerate MP, but this is a pretty awkward sequence to go through because Shadow Skin and Blood Weapon aren't on the GCD while Grit is, for some arbitrary reason.

Living Dead is pretty lackluster though. It has the effect of Holmgang but with the cooldown of Hallowed Ground without the benefits of either, and no mitigation.

Tanking bosses though I've had no issues with so far.

Meena · **06-22-2015, 11:33 AM**

(06-22-2015, 11:18 AM)Aaron Wrote:
(06-22-2015, 10:49 AM)Meena Wrote:
(06-22-2015, 07:11 AM)mongi291 Wrote: DRK really needs a few more buffs.
1) Allow us to use Blood Weapon in Grit.
2) Buff Dark Dance to increase parry rate to 30/40% > 60% (making it more of a parallel to Bulwark).
3) Put Reprisal on GCD (allowing a DRK MT to keep the damage debuff 100% of the time in an ideal scenario)
4) Buff Shadow Wall to 40%, either by default or with a trait.
5) Remove Hasty Reprisal (useless if Reprisal is on GCD) and Enhanced Unmend (completely useless), and replace them with new traits, maybe a buff for Shadow Wall and, I dunno, something else.
6) Shorten Living Dead cooldown. I get it, you can get 20 seconds invincibility with it, but it requires you and your healer(s) to be in perfect syncrony.
7) Buff Sole Survivor to something like 50% HP and MP recovered. 20% seems hardly worth it.

EDIT: Also, replace Delirium's debuff with something else. No real reason to use it if you have a MNK with you.

However, DRK has the benefit of being able to tank and pull 600+ dps.

I don't.. I mean, its an amazing class. people jus havent figured out all the kinks to it.
DRK is meant to be a tank though. Dps shouldn't really be its saving grace.

Seeing as all new raids take into account Healer and rank DPS, yes, yes it is.

And correct WAR can out dps a DRk, however, they cannot tank efficently while not in defiance stance, where as DRK can tank and deal near equal dps.

X'nath · **06-22-2015, 12:07 PM**

As one who originally came back to 14 with the intention of being a DRK..So far, yes, damage wise WAR puts out the most...Â

And they could increase the times on some of the mitigation, but besides that I believe the reason they gave us most of the MP regeneration and two stances was to purposefully stance dance, as they call it. Grit and the main rotation to get enough mitigation and especially with bosses where there's no way to stun them, blood price will always give us MP. We shouldn't be needlessly wasting it with darkside up on trash pulls unless we're speed running.

damage wise, once you hold enough threat and you're positive your off tank isn't using the enmity chain, you can take grit off with darkside still up, pop blood weapon and regain that MP some more.

Another good thing is that we got a buff combo similar to the WAR Inner Beast > Unchained > Zerk > threat combo where you use [on bosses] Grit > Darkside > Unmend > Hard Slash > Spinning Slash > Dark Arts > Power Slash

Good thing is no pacification for using it. Do that maybe, twice, and you should be good on threat for a bit and then take grit off to regain more MP with Darkside-Blood Weapon

Again, this is assuming you're the MT xD

But, as the link offered about the state of them, it's a difficult place, but we've time to learn and for SE to hopefully do the neccessary tweaks to put them in a better spot.Â

Anyways, I'ma keep it, learn it, love it. Just like those who were warriors and people didn't really like them at all originally

Manari · **06-22-2015, 12:23 PM**

I don't have Heavensward yet, but I was concerned about what they did to NIN? I heard they were going to add a bunch of positional requirements on their moves. Is this true? If so, if we really have to juggle positional stuff along with mudras and our combos on top of it, why not just be a monk? I'm just wondering how bad it is.

Zyrusticae · **06-22-2015, 12:43 PM**

Only one other person in this thread even mentioned Machinist. I knew we were unpopular, but damn, that much? Huh

At this point, I'm seriously convinced a hotfix is in order. I knew while I was leveling it that it was not doing great damage, but I thought that was just because I was missing some essential tools (a problem in and of itself for any job that doesn't start at the level cap, but still more excusable than just being straight-up underpowered). NOPE! It just sucks. Period.

They could throw like 30 potency on our three primary damage skills, maybe that would fix it. Honestly, the only thing that would work would be for them to just increase our potencies. They're too low as they are now.

(06-22-2015, 12:23 PM)Manari Wrote: I don't have Heavensward yet, but I was concerned about what they did to NIN? I heard they were going to add a bunch of positional requirements on their moves. Is this true? If so, if we really have to juggle positional stuff along with mudras and our combos on top of it, why not just be a monk? I'm just wondering how bad it is.

AFAIK they only changed Aeolian Edge to have a rear positional requirement. The rest is unchanged.

Aaron · **06-22-2015, 12:46 PM**

DW Zy lol come raids a lotta DRK will drop and vanish.

Happens in every mmo I know with a new tank. Everyone grabs it but time they hit endgame they go back to dps.

Cause apparently tanking is "hard"

-_-

Griffith! · **06-22-2015, 01:10 PM**

(06-22-2015, 12:46 PM)Aaron Wrote: DW Zy lol come raids a lotta DRK will drop and vanish.

Happens in every mmo I know with a new tank. Everyone grabs it but time they hit endgame they go back to dps.

Cause apparently tanking is "hard"

-_-

I dunno. I usually prefer it.

So I haven't played as any of the new jobs because, well, I can't, but I have seen plenty of them in my many, many dungeon runs over the last few days, and honestly?

I'm not sure they're very good at their jobs. Both Astrologian and Machinist seem to under-preforming in comparison to other Jobs in the same role. Machinist especially. I appreciate how little hate they seem to be generating, but at the same time, I kind of wish they'd contribute a little more, damage-wise.

I get the jobs are new and people are still working out how to use them, but on the whole, I'm not impressed with what I'm seeing.

Sounsyy · **06-22-2015, 01:57 PM**

The massively OP buffs given to WAR make me worry just how difficult Alexander is gonna be. So far (mainly because of work) I've only gotten to a lv58 ilvl140 WAR. But, as a career WAR, here's the things I noticed.

52: Deliverance - DPS stance for WAR. Not that WARs needed the help, but now we've got it. Adds 5% dmg increase across the board.

54: Fell Cleave - WAR's new favorite toy. Consumes stacks to deal 500 potency attack. As STR WAR I'm hitting 1500 non buffed, 2500s with berserk. 4k dmg berserked with crit. The dmg on this thing is insane. And since stacks carry over between stances, WARs can now stance dance effectively and pull out damage when needed. I can only imagine how much I can juice this skill at lv60 i190.

56: Raw Intuition - At first glance this skill seems meh, but this is actually one of WAR's most OP new abilities. Possibly not working as intended??? So, for 20s all incoming attacks from the front get parried with the caveat that all incoming attacks from flank and rear have 100% chance to crit. BUT! Awareness will nullify enemy's crit chance to 0% for 15s so pop the two buffs together. ADDITIONALLY! The 100% crit chance from flank or rear also applies to incoming cures. WUT. Lemme repeat, while this buff is up, healers will crit heal WARs 100% of the time so long as the WAR isn't facing the healer.

58: Equilibrium - Another OP heal mechanic. Every 60s WARs can use this ability to either self heal while using Defiance or invigorate 200 tp using Deliverance. The self heal is 1200 potency, and likely affected by mantra and convalescence. At the gear level listed above, this healed me for 3k.

EDIT: Update! Equilibrium, like Second Wind, also appears to be affected by attack power! I've consistently been hitting 3-3.2k heals, however, when used with Berserk, Equilibrum healed me for 4.6-4.8k HP.

Update 2: Tested this about 15x with and without. Equilibrium is also affected by Attack Power! Without berserk cures shot consistently in the 3-3.3k range. While Berserked, results varied from 4.6-5k at Level 58 with 713 base attack power. 1069 attack power with Berserk. ANOTHER REASON TO GO STR FOLKS.

I haven't gotten to play with the level 60 skill yet, but it's a more potent Steel Cyclone. If the rest of the skills are any indication, it probably wrecks face. Multiple faces even. But as I said, I'm pretty low item level and not even 60 yet. I can't imagine how powerful some of these skills will be to a fully decked out i190 WAR. Also, go STR. If you weren't a believer in STR WAR before, you should be now.

mongi291 · **06-22-2015, 02:04 PM**

(06-22-2015, 01:57 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: The massively OP buffs given to WAR make me worry just how difficult Alexander is gonna be. So far (mainly because of work) I've only gotten to a lv58 ilvl140 WAR. But, as a career WAR, here's the things I noticed.

52: Deliverance - DPS stance for WAR. Not that WARs needed the help, but now we've got it. Adds 5% dmg increase across the board.

54: Fell Cleave - WAR's new favorite toy. Consumes stacks to deal 500 potency attack. As STR WAR I'm hitting 1500 non buffdd, 2500s with berserk. 4k dmg berserked with crit. The dmg on this thing is insane. And since stacks carry over between stances, WARs can now stance dance effectively and pull out damage when needed. I can only imagine how much I can juice this skill at lv60 i190.

56: Raw Intuition - At first glance this skill seems meh, but this is actually one of WAR's most OP new abilities. Possibly not working as intended??? So, for 20s all incoming attacks from the front get parried with the caveat that all incoming attacks from flank and rear have 100% chance to crit. BUT! Awareness will nullify enemy's crit chance to 0% for 15s so pop the two buffs together. ADDITIONALLY! The 100% crit chance from flank or rear also applies to incoming cures. WUT. Lemme repeat, while this buff is up, healers will crit heal WARs 100% of the time so long as the WAR isn't facing the healer.

58: (forgot skill name derp) - Another OP heal mechanic. Every 60s WARs can use this ability to either self heal while using Defiance or invigorate 200 tp using Deliverance. The self heal is 1200 potency, and likely affected by mantra and convalescence. At the gear level listed above, this healed me for 3k.

I haven't gotten to play with the level 60 skill yet, but it's a more potent Steel Cyclone. If the rest of the skills are any indication, it probably wrecks face. Multiple faces even. But as I said, I'm pretty low item level and not even 60 yet. I can't imagine how powerful some of these skills will be to a fully decked out i190 WAR. Also, go STR. If you weren't a believer in STR WAR before, you should be now.

That pretty much applies for every tank now.
Or, even better, wait until we get crafted accessories and make accessories with both VIT and STR.

Goodfellow · **06-22-2015, 02:14 PM**

(06-22-2015, 12:43 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: Only one other person in this thread even mentioned Machinist. I knew we were unpopular, but damn, that much?

They can't be that unpopular; I have yet to run a dungeon without two of them.Â Haven't played it myself yet (or DRK).

AST?Â I don't care if it can't keep up with WHM/SCH.Â It gives itself over to my patron deity, the RNG. So I must main it. It has been written in the stars.Â

In desperate need of TP?Â I can help with that.Â Maybe.Â

MP low?Â Give me a second.Â Wait.Â Nope.Â Give me thirty more seconds.Â

Ohgodohgodohgodtank'sbleedingout need bole pleasepleaseplease BOLE!Â GLORY TO THE RNG!

Melkire · **06-22-2015, 02:26 PM**

(06-22-2015, 02:04 PM)mongi291 Wrote: That pretty much applies for every tank now.
Or, even better, wait until we get crafted accessories and make accessories with both VIT and STR.

I haven't hopped into HW yet but I've been hearing folks in linkshells advocating VIT or maybe even PIE for DRK. The former given that consensus seems to be that it's a squishier tank than PLD or WAR, the latter given its constant need for MP.

Gegenji · **06-22-2015, 02:32 PM**

(06-22-2015, 02:26 PM)Melkire Wrote:
(06-22-2015, 02:04 PM)mongi291 Wrote: That pretty much applies for every tank now.
Or, even better, wait until we get crafted accessories and make accessories with both VIT and STR.

I haven't hopped into HW yet but I've been hearing folks in linkshells advocating VIT or maybe even PIE for DRK. The former given that consensus seems to be that it's a squishier tank than PLD or WAR, the latter given its constant need for MP.

Yeah, I've been hearing the PIE thing too... I'm just sticking to STR on Judge because that's always been my tanking go-to stat with WAR and PLD, and so he has all gear that lines up with that from his preparation.

Once I actually get him to a decent level and have his abilities, I can likely give a decent report on their squishiness and MP consumption. However, as of yet (at 34), I've only been running low on MP if I'm doing the DRK-equivalent of "Flash spamming."

McBeefâ„¢ · **06-22-2015, 02:34 PM**

(06-22-2015, 01:57 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: 56: Raw Intuition - At first glance this skill seems meh, but this is actually one of WAR's most OP new abilities. Possibly not working as intended??? So, for 20s all incoming attacks from the front get parried with the caveat that all incoming attacks from flank and rear have 100% chance to crit. BUT! Awareness will nullify enemy's crit chance to 0% for 15s so pop the two buffs together. ADDITIONALLY! The 100% crit chance from flank or rear also applies to incoming cures. WUT. Lemme repeat, while this buff is up, healers will crit heal WARs 100% of the time so long as the WAR isn't facing the healer.

This isn't as amazing as it sounds. What fights typically have the healer looking at the main tank's back? I actually can't think of any in coil. You can't even if you wanted to usually, because the DPS needs to hit the back of the boss. Parry's are good, but realistically it just means warriors get a physical only version of Rampart, with some slight downsides, as they'll get critted if they need to turn and dodge an AOE or reposition a boss.

That self heal looks pretty good. I Think the stealth advantage of the new heals WAR/PLD get is that they can cast them when adds spawn, and have adds drop on them instead.

mongi291 · **06-22-2015, 02:41 PM**

(06-22-2015, 02:32 PM)Gegenji Wrote:
(06-22-2015, 02:26 PM)Melkire Wrote:
(06-22-2015, 02:04 PM)mongi291 Wrote: That pretty much applies for every tank now.
Or, even better, wait until we get crafted accessories and make accessories with both VIT and STR.

I haven't hopped into HW yet but I've been hearing folks in linkshells advocating VIT or maybe even PIE for DRK. The former given that consensus seems to be that it's a squishier tank than PLD or WAR, the latter given its constant need for MP.

Yeah, I've been hearing the PIE thing too... I'm just sticking to STR on Judge because that's always been my tanking go-to stat with WAR and PLD, and so he has all gear that lines up with that from his preparation.

Once I actually get him to a decent level and have his abilities, I can likely give a decent report on their squishiness and MP consumption. However, as of yet (at 34), I've only been running low on MP if I'm doing the DRK-equivalent of "Flash spamming."

I can understand VIT, but PIE? If you're tanking you have Blood Price; if you're not you have Blood Weapon. And either way Souleater is really good with Dark Arts so you will have to use Syphon Strike. Oh, and from what I've seen DRK has more base PIE than every other non-mage job (PLD and BRD have something like 1400 MP at level 50. DRK on the other hand has 1900 MP at level 50).

EDIT: And yes, I know they said "PIE will be a possible option for DRK". I remember that. But it turns out they either lied, or were exaggerating.

Sounsyy · **06-22-2015, 02:49 PM**

(06-22-2015, 02:34 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(06-22-2015, 01:57 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: 56: Raw Intuition - At first glance this skill seems meh, but this is actually one of WAR's most OP new abilities. Possibly not working as intended??? So, for 20s all incoming attacks from the front get parried with the caveat that all incoming attacks from flank and rear have 100% chance to crit. BUT! Awareness will nullify enemy's crit chance to 0% for 15s so pop the two buffs together. ADDITIONALLY! The 100% crit chance from flank or rear also applies to incoming cures. WUT. Lemme repeat, while this buff is up, healers will crit heal WARs 100% of the time so long as the WAR isn't facing the healer.

This isn't as amazing as it sounds. What fights typically have the healer looking at the main tank's back? I actually can't think of any in coil. You can't even if you wanted to usually, because the DPS needs to hit the back of the boss. Parry's are good, but realistically it just means warriors get a physical only version of Rampart, with some slight downsides, as they'll get critted if they need to turn and dodge an AOE or reposition a boss.

That self heal looks pretty good. I Think the stealth advantage of the new heals WAR/PLD get is that they can cast them when adds spawn, and have adds drop on them instead.

Difficult during bosses, sure, but easily maneuverable for trash pulls. I've made a macro just to tell healers the skill is up. But most of the new bosses, and even a lot in the old are tanked in the center of the arena. Very easy to get behind. Another option is just for the WAR to turn their ass towards the healer. Pretty easy for WAR to just turn around. Awareness buff fully nullifies the enemy's crit rate, so no harm done.

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Let's talk about 'dem Heavensward jobs

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