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Kage · **06-26-2015, 09:31 AM**

(06-26-2015, 09:05 AM)Meena Wrote:
(06-26-2015, 04:08 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(06-26-2015, 04:00 AM)Poison and Lace Wrote:
(06-26-2015, 03:48 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(06-26-2015, 03:41 AM)Poison and Lace Wrote: I don't have any interest in dpsing. My priority goes healing -> buffing -> dps as should all good healers. Also I heal fine thanks, just not a lot of room to dps in the new dungeons compared to the old one's, especially in the vault.

All good healers have to DPS.

Not DPSing is a luxury you get in old content, but in my opinion good healers do current content, and in order to clear anything besides 4 man dungeons or old raids/primals, healers have to dps.

You know what. I'm going to stop posting. I can't be bothered arguing with you guys. Have fun.

It's unfortunate that you equate disagreement with attack.

Perhaps it is best if you do stop posting, if disagreement affects you so.
Actually - I agree with her. The new dungeons (at 60, the dugneons from 51-59 are piss easy) are rather hard hitting and as a scholar i;ve found there to be times where I don't even have time to throw up a dot if the DPS is slow or if the tank doesnt blow cooldowns at the right points. yes, Dpsing should be dont as a healer but but if it means you aren't confident healing your group and keeping them up.

Especially when some monsters basic attacks are doing 1000-1500 damage, and there are twelve of them.
Perhaps this will change with gear, perhaps not. We will see in the coming patches.

In my opinion, you can't DD as a healer when your tank isn't good. I had a pld keep running through vault without blowing cooldowns and fuck me as a SCH without Emergency tactics? at that point.... SHIT HURTS. I ONLY HAVE SO MANY LUSTRATES. Shields only do so much when you're taking so much damage.

For awhile I thought DRKs were squishy. But then I met less squishy ones. Probably better with cooldowns etc.

Seriously, depending on gear or how many you pull.. I swear fuckin' let me shield you and use cooldowns. If I am using cooldowns in my role, so should you. And if you're going to leave me doing that, well I'm not going to DD.

Kahn'a · **06-26-2015, 03:05 PM**

BRD main over here.

Wanderer's Minuet
So I know it is pretty much the epicenter of the BRD controversy right now but I like it. Thematically, an archer that takes time to aim and shoot is just right to me. I'd even put myself at risk in saying that people complaining about the loss of that mobility are...a little bit lazy. You really don't need to move that much in a fight. In fact, the less movement, the better.

Empyreal Arrow
As cool of a skill as this one is, it feels a tiny bit awkward to use. Despite being a Weaponskill, it doesn't share a GCD with the rest of the BRD's kit, and hence it can be cast anytime in your rotation. I've seen it shine best when use right after a Straighter Shot or coupled with Barrage and Sidewinder. Good burst.

Iron Jaws
Nothing but good things to say about this one. You save one GCD and a hefty amount of TP just to reapply your DoTs. It finds its place rather easily in the BRD's kit.

Warden's Paeon
Eh. It's a cool idea and I've absolutely not explored the skill as far as it deserves, but it has far fewer applications than what the tooltip suggests. And yet it's understandable. If this skill does too much, you can be sure it would be another reason BRD are wanted in raidgroups, and given their already beast utility, we don't need that. It will probably shine in PVP, however.

Sidewinder
That skill is just pure awesomeness. Nothing to add.

And as parting words, I'd say that after playing through their expansion, and witnessing the sheer quality of it, I have good faith that SE will make some tweaking to the new skills should they prove as counter-productive as people make them look. They care about their game.

Meena · **06-26-2015, 05:47 PM**

(06-26-2015, 09:31 AM)Kage Wrote:
(06-26-2015, 09:05 AM)Meena Wrote:
(06-26-2015, 04:08 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(06-26-2015, 04:00 AM)Poison and Lace Wrote:
(06-26-2015, 03:48 AM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: All good healers have to DPS.

Not DPSing is a luxury you get in old content, but in my opinion good healers do current content, and in order to clear anything besides 4 man dungeons or old raids/primals, healers have to dps.

You know what. I'm going to stop posting. I can't be bothered arguing with you guys. Have fun.

It's unfortunate that you equate disagreement with attack.

Perhaps it is best if you do stop posting, if disagreement affects you so.
Actually - I agree with her. The new dungeons (at 60, the dugneons from 51-59 are piss easy) are rather hard hitting and as a scholar i;ve found there to be times where I don't even have time to throw up a dot if the DPS is slow or if the tank doesnt blow cooldowns at the right points. yes, Dpsing should be dont as a healer but but if it means you aren't confident healing your group and keeping them up.

Especially when some monsters basic attacks are doing 1000-1500 damage, and there are twelve of them.
Perhaps this will change with gear, perhaps not. We will see in the coming patches.
In my opinion, you can't DD as a healer when your tank isn't good. I had a pld keep running through vault without blowing cooldowns and fuck me as a SCH without Emergency tactics? at that point.... SHIT HURTS. I ONLY HAVE SO MANY LUSTRATES. Shields only do so much when you're taking so much damage.

For awhile I thought DRKs were squishy. But then I met less squishy ones. Probably better with cooldowns etc.

Seriously, depending on gear or how many you pull.. I swear fuckin' let me shield you and use cooldowns. If I am using cooldowns in my role, so should you. And if you're going to leave me doing that, well I'm not going to DD.

xD Seeing as Adlo now costs around 8% of my mana pool instead of the 4% it used to cost, yeah, you can normally only do around 11 Adlo's before your oom.

McBeefâ„¢ · **06-26-2015, 07:39 PM**

Just to be clear, obviously yes, as a healer, you can't let people die, that's most important.

However once you can reliably keep people alive, the challenge then is to try to sneak in damage here and there to help the party. Same thing as it is for tanks, once you have aggro, it's time to throw down some numbers.

Fortunately pld now have stuff that lets them do that.

Kellach Woods · **06-26-2015, 08:03 PM**

(06-26-2015, 07:39 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Fortunately pld now have stuff that lets them do that.

WAR does too, but holy fuck would I take a straight dam redux for Foresight than a straight defense buff.

Unless Foresight also buffs Magic Def.

I'm honestly considering dropping Flash/Provoke until I'm not made of papier mÃ¢chÃ©.

Aaron · **06-26-2015, 08:44 PM**

The 3 tank are now the offspring of when a dps and a tank have a baby.

Kellach Woods · **06-26-2015, 09:03 PM**

Someone posted up 11k crits off a Fell Cleave. I wholeheartedly believe this to not only be possible, but to straight up go for Fell Cleave Infuriate Fell Cleave and have both hit for 11k.

I think I'll be working on DRK as my first HW only job - if only to transfer my Phlegeton outfit to that class because the Wootz sword is LITERALLY the Phlegeton sword.

Cato · **06-26-2015, 09:36 PM**

Hopefully they'll tone down the damage of tanks a bit. They're there to absorb damage - not dish it out beyond what the designated damage roles are capable of. The ridiculous capabilities of tank roles compared to damage roles was one of my major pet peeves back in WoW so hopefully it'll be addressed here sooner rather than later.

I'm liking the new DRG abilities - it feels good to have positional requirements again. The party buff is pretty neat too and has been well received whenever I use it from what I can tell.

Zyrusticae · **06-26-2015, 10:10 PM**

The tank classes' damage output is fine. Top-tier DPS can dish out something in the neighborhood of 1200+, where the tanks can't even break 900.

The fact that MCH and BRD can only hit about as hard as tanks only says they need a buff, not that tanks need a nerf.

Harmonixer · **06-27-2015, 12:51 AM**

I'm guessing that tank damage will pale in comparison to what future geared DPS will dish out. To me, it's short sighted to get star-eyed over a few crits right out the front door from a skill that won't always have a place to be used in 'higher tier' settings. Right now, we're doing leveling and early content and it could also be that a 'huge' burst attack like that might be needed. I know I certainly welcomed it during the Bismark fight and during special add phases.

It's discouraging for gearing dps to see those numbers flying off the mob that isn't their own. But be mindful that it's also helping for the time being. Don't worry, it should catch up later.

If not, it'll get balanced accordingly. Eventually.

Sounsyy · **06-27-2015, 01:39 AM**

Considering every 8-man or 24-man raid requires multiple tanks, yet most of these fights have absolutely no mechanics which necessitate an Off Tank - I am perfectly fine with tanks receiving a bonus to DPS strength. In a solo-tank fight that requires two tanks, there's literally nothing else for the OT to do, so I'd much rather them be assisting in DPS than being dead weight.

WARs get some very nice DPS numbers, and I imagine at later levels we'll be able to reach "shitty dps" status as my raid leader affectionately calls my WAR. But a tank which does 800-1000 DPS in future content will be far more welcome addition to a party than having two tanks whose combined DPS barely scratches 800 DPS. I mean... be jealous of an 11k crit Fell Cleave all you want... but in the end it's only helping your party succeed? You should be happy your WAR has the brains to use his class optimally.

Kellach Woods · **06-27-2015, 08:15 AM**

I'm more concerned about being able to actually TANK as a WAR personally.

The only true damage redux we have is Vengeance, and that's a 120 seconds cooldown - Due to how the self-heal mechanics work, we have to make a choice between buffing that, or buffing our health.

Not saying "pls buff WAR" but just hoping that once I actually hit the level where this shit is relevant, I won't get fucked by an oversight.

Aduu Avagnar · **06-27-2015, 08:18 AM**

(06-27-2015, 08:15 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote: I'm more concerned about being able to actually TANK as a WAR personally.

The only true damage redux we have is Vengeance, and that's a 120 seconds cooldown - Due to how the self-heal mechanics work, we have to make a choice between buffing that, or buffing our health.

Not saying "pls buff WAR" but just hoping that once I actually hit the level where this shit is relevant, I won't get fucked by an oversight.

you also have one that reduces damage by 20% every for 5 seconds every 12.5 seconds. and another that increases def by 20%

Paladins have 5 (6 if we cross class into Warrior). We also have Shield Oath which is a flat 20% reduction, but that's cause mitigation is our shtick. So having more than you is understandable.

Kellach Woods · **06-27-2015, 08:20 AM**

Forgot about Inner Beast, as well.

Also haven't seen the 58-60 abilities yet. One of them is the self-heal that much I know.

Sounsyy · **06-27-2015, 08:31 AM**

(06-27-2015, 08:20 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote: Forgot about Inner Beast, as well.

Also haven't seen the 58-60 abilities yet. One of them is the self-heal that much I know.

Equilibrium is your clutch heal while tanking. At 825 STR so far, it heals normal around 4.1-4.3k HP. With Berserk up I get between 6.1-6.3k. Also note that this heal can crit. So off-Berserk I can crit around 5k+ and around 7k+ with Berserk. Can repeat every 60s. So very OP and very useful. Along with Vengeance, Inner Beast, Thrill of Battle, Convalescence, and Raw Intuition - I have not been wanting for buffs or self heals.

That said... we haven't seen Alexander yet. But I have a feeling WARs won't be MTing that. That'll be relegated to Buffy McPaladins. So we'll be able to stance dance between full out DPS and Tank mode as needed in those fights. But from my experience in the new Lv60 dungeons, WAR is now all about the Self-Heal Tanking. You are absolutely right in that we just do not have the mitigation prowess of other tank classes. Our way to compete, especially with the new Raw Intuition and Equilibrium abilities is just to make ourselves as ridiculously easy to heal as possible.

EDIT: Decimate, our level 60 ability, has thus far been fairly useless. It's a pretty potent AoE (about 1-1.2k dmg to all mobs in a 360 degree self aoe around you) but unless you're Off Tanking and DPSing a lot of trash, the damage off of Fell Cleave is far superior. But again, so far in the game, there's not many situations where I'm dpsing a lot of trash mobs. Maybe I'll use it when soloing WP?

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