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LiadansWhisper · **07-07-2015, 06:25 PM**

(07-07-2015, 05:52 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: I don't think they're really indoctrinated. I'm not sure where that is ever stated by someone who is not biased. I'm sure plenty of people sign up for adventure, pay, and a cool uniform and laser gun.

If I recall no Garlean we speak to seems particularly indoctrinated, besides believing firmly in the cause of the Empire. There is a moogle mail quest with a Garlean deserter, and he never talks about being brainwashed (to my memory).

Believe it's from the...I forget the number, but Nael's legion. Â They were actively brainwashing/indoctrinating their recruits, including children.

LiadansWhisper · **07-07-2015, 06:27 PM**

(07-07-2015, 06:14 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(07-07-2015, 06:09 PM)Intaki Wrote: There's a video somewhere around here with the cutscenes. Basically the children get taken away and taught to be good citizens, or something to that effect.

Ah, so soft indoctrination, the carrot, not the stick.

The Razings are the stick.

Doesn't strike me as particularly nefarious. It's not just beastmen that can summon primals, educating people that primals are bad, and that they shouldn't pray to them or summon them. It's hard to get adults to change, but they at least get the next generation.

Eh. Â Ehhhhh.

It's really analogous to the "schools" that Native American children were forcibly sent to.

I think we can agree those were not okay.

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-07-2015, 06:36 PM**

Well I mean, how else do you get them to stop summoning Primals?

You either kill them or change them.

M'isha · **07-07-2015, 06:38 PM**

In terms of historical example of course I feel the Roman slavery system is analogous, but for me a closer similarity would actually be the Japanese occupation of Korea and Taiwan in the first half of 20th century. For those not familiar with this period of Asian history many Koreans and Taiwanese took Japanese names, fought in war, worked in mines and became absorbed into Japanese culture.Â

It is a very fascinating period in history (my college master thesis hahaha) maybe it will intrigue you too in terms of Garlemald connection:

https://books.google.com/books?id=JNNoCP...cy&f=false

As you can see the French also had a similar policy of cultural assimilation that you can see to this day in Africa and in Vietnam before the revolution.

It always reminded me of this reading the lore on Doma because Japanese cultural assimilation program was called "Doka"

V'aleera · **07-07-2015, 06:45 PM**

(07-07-2015, 06:36 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Well I mean, how else do you get them to stop summoning Primals?

You either kill them or change them.

Then again, neither of those options seem to have been working terribly well.

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-07-2015, 06:47 PM**

(07-07-2015, 06:45 PM)Intaki Wrote:
(07-07-2015, 06:36 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Well I mean, how else do you get them to stop summoning Primals?

You either kill them or change them.
Then again, neither of those options seem to have been working terribly well.

Well, clearly more magitech super weapons are the answer then.

It always works out so well for them.

allgivenover · **07-07-2015, 06:55 PM**

(07-07-2015, 06:27 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(07-07-2015, 06:14 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote:
(07-07-2015, 06:09 PM)Intaki Wrote: There's a video somewhere around here with the cutscenes. Basically the children get taken away and taught to be good citizens, or something to that effect.

Ah, so soft indoctrination, the carrot, not the stick.

The Razings are the stick.

Doesn't strike me as particularly nefarious. It's not just beastmen that can summon primals, educating people that primals are bad, and that they shouldn't pray to them or summon them. It's hard to get adults to change, but they at least get the next generation.

Eh. Â Ehhhhh.

It's really analogous to the "schools" that Native American children were forcibly sent to.

I think we can agree those were not okay.

That's hardly enough reason to revolt! /s

LiadansWhisper · **07-07-2015, 07:30 PM**

(07-07-2015, 06:36 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Well I mean, how else do you get them to stop summoning Primals?

You either kill them or change them.

I'm pretty sure that the Hyur, Elezen, etc, weren't the ones summoning Primals.

The Garleans just exterminate Beast Tribes outright.

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-07-2015, 07:32 PM**

(07-07-2015, 07:30 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(07-07-2015, 06:36 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Well I mean, how else do you get them to stop summoning Primals?

You either kill them or change them.

I'm pretty sure that the Hyur, Elezen, etc, weren't the ones summoning Primals.

The Garleans just exterminate Beast Tribes outright.

They can and they have though. The Beast tribes just seem to be more likely to do it.

LiadansWhisper · **07-07-2015, 07:35 PM**

(07-07-2015, 07:32 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: They can and they have though. The Beast tribes just seem to be more likely to do it.

As far as we know, they didn't in Ala Mhigo, yet that is where you find the children being brainwashed and the conscripted recruits being forced to kill a person every day to numb them to the horror of killing.

I mean, I know you really like the Garlean Empire, but let's be reasonable. Â Dodgy

McBeefâ„¢ · **07-07-2015, 07:39 PM**

(07-07-2015, 07:35 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(07-07-2015, 07:32 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: They can and they have though. The Beast tribes just seem to be more likely to do it.

As far as we know, they didn't in Ala Mhigo, yet that is where you find the children being brainwashed and the conscripted recruits being forced to kill a person every day to numb them to the horror of killing.

I mean, I know you really like the Garlean Empire, but let's be reasonable. Â

Where is it shown they have to kill a person a day?

Also remember, apparently primals are literally destroying the world. Any price, regardless of how high, is cheap compared to world destruction.

LiadansWhisper · **07-07-2015, 07:41 PM**

(07-07-2015, 07:39 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Where is it shown they have to kill a person a day?

Also remember, apparently primals are literally destroying the world. Any price, regardless of how high, is cheap compared to world destruction.

It's in the 1.0 quest. Â If we're lucky, Sounsyy can swoop in with a link, but there is information from those quests about how conscripted recruits were brainwashed and forced to kill a person every day to numb them to the horror of killing.

Also, sorry, the "ends justify the means" doesn't really fly with me. Â Undecided

Â You cannot justify atrocities as far as I'm concerned. Â Just isn't gonna work.

Edited to Add: Not to mention the fact that the Garleans practiced genocide against the Beast Tribes actually caused them to summon Primals with increasing desperation in some cases, whereas if they'd been left alone they might never have done so.

Melkire · **07-07-2015, 07:55 PM**

(07-07-2015, 07:41 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: It's in the 1.0 quest. Â If we're lucky, Sounsyy can swoop in with a link, but there is information from those quests about how conscripted recruits were brainwashed and forced to kill a person every day to numb them to the horror of killing.

If I recall, this procedure was specific to the legion of Nael Van Darnus, as opposed to every other legion of the Empire. Was similar to decimation, if I recall correctly. Someone else will have to source that for you.

**Unnamed Mercenary** · **07-07-2015, 08:20 PM**

(07-07-2015, 07:55 PM)Melkire Wrote:
(07-07-2015, 07:41 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: It's in the 1.0 quest. Â If we're lucky, Sounsyy can swoop in with a link, but there is information from those quests about how conscripted recruits were brainwashed and forced to kill a person every day to numb them to the horror of killing.

If I recall, this procedure was specific to the legion of Nael Van Darnus, as opposed to every other legion of the Empire. Was similar to decimation, if I recall correctly. Someone else will have to source that for you.

^This. ONLY Nael Van Darnus had such a rule. I remember Gaius being rather friendly in 1.0. He wanted Eorzea to join willingly. Nael decided if Garlemald couldn't have Eorzea, he'd drop a fucking moon on it instead.

Chris Ganale · **07-07-2015, 08:44 PM**

That guy in the postmoogle quest? The Garlean deserter that lives in Wineport jungles? That guy is fucked in the head, and you don't get that assed up just from seeing some awful shit. That kind of mind-fuckery, to the point where he acts like his brains are essentially scrambled eggs, comes from actual mind-fuckery.

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[split] Garlemald's Presence in Othard and Relation to the Roman Empire

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