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Edgar · **07-17-2015, 09:29 PM**

[sup]If Administration thinks this needs clarifying, please, by all means, edit it.[/sup]

So, a while back I had a thought about the possibility of the presence of a sort of "Aetheism" in Eorzea, forgot about it, and then had it come screaming back into my brain, today.

And the more I thought about it, the more bizarre it became. It turned out, in trying to answer the question about whether or not they existed, I always came to the question of whether or not they would even be believable in a setting like Hydaelyn. I hypothesized that, if there were Aetheists in Eorzea, they would be faced with constant evidence to the contrary, leading to a sort of "La~la~la~I can't hear you~" mantra chanting-esque behavior. In other words, they'd appear as nothing more than bad charicatures.Â

What do you guys think about this?Â

Are there examples of Aetheists in Eorzea? How proper of a representation do they give? Are they believable? If not, what would make them believable? And if they don't exist, is the concept just too bizarre for this setting to ever work? And other questions!

Have at it!

Faye · **07-17-2015, 09:34 PM**

Atheism is pretty counter-intuitive to what we know about Eorzea (though I've noticed that hasn't stopped a plethora of people from trying to RP it). But it could be an attitude that may start shifting in the future. As we find out more and more curiosities about Primals, and the existence of Eikons, it only begs more questions than it answers. The Twelve could be nothing more than Primals, and in that respect could perhaps be considered "false gods," as the Imperials and Ascians are wont to call them.

Saravahn · **07-17-2015, 09:42 PM**

Rather than flat out atheism, I've seen characters roleplayed (and have done so myself) where they just don't necessarily attribute what others may consider miracles to the various deities. In other words, a "they've never done anything for me, so why should I pray to/worship/care about them?" sort of attitude.

As has been stated, flat out disbelief in them (the deities) is a bit... silly.

Faye · **07-17-2015, 09:58 PM**

(07-17-2015, 09:42 PM)Etienne Wrote: Rather than flat out atheism, I've seen characters roleplayed (and have done so myself) where they just don't necessarily attribute what others may consider miracles to the various deities. In other words, a "they've never done anything for me, so why should I pray to/worship/care about them?" sort of attitude.

As has been stated, flat out disbelief in them (the deities) is a bit... silly.

This is pretty much how I approach the matter with Faye. Rather than denying their existence, she just doesn't necessarily worship or revere them.

Roda · **07-17-2015, 10:40 PM**

I see the Garleans as the closest thing to atheists in FFXIV.
And that's really all I can say that isn't too spoilery. '3'

Sounsyy · **07-17-2015, 11:11 PM**

(07-17-2015, 09:29 PM)Edgar Wrote: Are there examples of Aetheists in Eorzea? How proper of a representation do they give? Are they believable? If not, what would make them believable? And if they don't exist, is the concept just too bizarre for this setting to ever work?

I can think of two examples of atheism in Eorzean lore:

1) Garleans - The obvious. The Twelve are only worshiped in Eorzea, not in the rest of the world. The Far East worships Elementals. The Garlean Empire forbids the worship of any deity or religion.

2) Erik - An Ala Mhigan scholar of aether and history. He seems pretty atheistic to me.

Erik Wrote:The monks and the Fist of Rhalgr are interesting in the same way as any other organized relgion - a sad, pathetic, and humorous way.

Erik Wrote:I confess I find great joy in studying the demise of a religion - and even greater joy in recounting it!

So they are out there. Though, likely not very common in Eorzea - land blessed by the gods. Y'know. But elsewhere in the world, probably more likely.

V'aleera · **07-17-2015, 11:17 PM**

Being an athiest seems pretty difficult in a world full of godlike beings.

Gone. · **07-17-2015, 11:33 PM**

There is a part towards the end of Heavensward where Midgardsormr mentions... well:

Show Content

Such knowledge would likely be unheard of amongst the common man, though.

Seriphyn · **07-18-2015, 12:03 AM**

Eorzea needs an Enlightenment-style event for atheism to really exist as a concept with any traction, I reckon.

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LiadansWhisper · **07-18-2015, 12:29 AM**

(07-17-2015, 11:33 PM)hauntmedoitagain Wrote: There is a part towards the end of Heavensward where Midgardsormr mentions... well:

Show Content

Spoilerthat the gods of mankind are nothing more than creations of their belief, akin to the very primals they ceaselessly wage war against.

Such knowledge would likely be unheard of amongst the common man, though.

Except for the Crystal.

Cailean Lockwood · **07-18-2015, 01:02 AM**

Have you guys seen the movie "Constantine" with Keanu Reeves?

In that there's a scene where Constantine talks to the half-angel Gabriel, trying to bargain a way into Heaven (he is a suicide survivor which means he is doomed to go to Hell). There's a line perfectly describing how an "Aetheist", or rather, a non-believer could work in Eorzea.

Constantine asks what God wants and Gabriel says "The usual; self-sacrifice, belief...", to which Constantine says "I believe, for Christ's sake." where Gabriel responds "No, you know. There's a difference. You've seen it.".

Same could apply to "Aetheists" in Eorzea. They know about the Twelve and their existence. But they don't believe in them. They don't worship them. They might even think the world would be better without them. They are non-believers, as it were. They know, but they don't believe... if that makes sense.

LiadansWhisper · **07-18-2015, 01:08 AM**

(07-18-2015, 01:02 AM)Vachir Crimsonborn Wrote: Have you guys seen the movie "Constantine" with Keanu Reeves?

In that there's a scene where Constantine talks to the half-angel Gabriel, trying to bargain a way into Heaven (he is a suicide survivor which means he is doomed to go to Hell). There's a line perfectly describing how an "Aetheist", or rather, a non-believer could work in Eorzea.

Constantine asks what God wants and Gabriel says "The usual; self-sacrifice, belief...", to which Constantine says "I believe, for Christ's sake." where Gabriel responds "No, you know. There's a difference. You've seen it.".

Same could apply to "Aetheists" in Eorzea. They know about the Twelve and their existence. But they don't believe in them. They don't worship them. They might even think the world would be better without them. They are non-believers, as it were. They know, but they don't believe... if that makes sense.

I'm going to sit on my hands and not type the rant that I want to type about the holes, contradictions, and terrible theology in the Constantine movie. Â Because no one wants that.

Lack of belief in the face of irrefutable proof is almost as religious/ritualistic as belief itself. Â Because you're refusing to believe something despite having irrefutable proof that it exists.

Cailean Lockwood · **07-18-2015, 01:15 AM**

(07-18-2015, 01:08 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:
(07-18-2015, 01:02 AM)Vachir Crimsonborn Wrote: Have you guys seen the movie "Constantine" with Keanu Reeves?

In that there's a scene where Constantine talks to the half-angel Gabriel, trying to bargain a way into Heaven (he is a suicide survivor which means he is doomed to go to Hell). There's a line perfectly describing how an "Aetheist", or rather, a non-believer could work in Eorzea.

Constantine asks what God wants and Gabriel says "The usual; self-sacrifice, belief...", to which Constantine says "I believe, for Christ's sake." where Gabriel responds "No, you know. There's a difference. You've seen it.".

Same could apply to "Aetheists" in Eorzea. They know about the Twelve and their existence. But they don't believe in them. They don't worship them. They might even think the world would be better without them. They are non-believers, as it were. They know, but they don't believe... if that makes sense.

I'm going to sit on my hands and not type the rant that I want to type about the holes, contradictions, and terrible theology in the Constantine movie. Â Because no one wants that.

Lack of belief in the face of irrefutable proof is almost as religious/ritualistic as belief itself. Â Because you're refusing to believe something despite having irrefutable proof that it exists.

The point isn't that he chooses to ignore the "fact" that he knows there is a God, that angels and demons exist etc., but rather that he doesn't have the faith in God. He isn't denying their existence, he just doesn't worship God. That's the point.

Edgar · **07-18-2015, 01:21 AM**

Guys I swear to Cthulhu, Yog-Sothoth, Azathoth, Nyarlathothep, Dagon, Mother Hydra, etc. that if you derail this thread there will be Ryleh to pay.

Cailean Lockwood · **07-18-2015, 01:25 AM**

(07-18-2015, 01:21 AM)Edgar Wrote: Guys I swear to Cthulhu, Yog-Sothoth, Azathoth, Nyarlathothep, Dagon, Mother Hydra, etc. that if you derail this thread there will be Ryleh to pay.

That wasn't the intention. I just wanted to bring an example I thought fit perfectly with the whole "Aetheists in Eorzea" topic.

The point was, as said, they know about the deities and all that jazz, they just don't have faith in them and would rather be without them.

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Eorzean Aetheists and The Believability of Such Characters

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