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Wemrys · **10-12-2015, 03:50 PM**

(10-12-2015, 03:36 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: I haven't played through the Dark Knight questline, so I don't have any differing opinions to offer on that one. Â The only thing I'm trying to say is that unless the questline explicitly tells you that you either a) can't use the power at all without a soulstone or b) you'll just up and die if you don't have one (which I guess is like a, but with more fire and death >.>), then there's no reason to assume that you absolutely must have a soulstone to be a particular job. Â And even then, you may very well be able to come up with a really good story reason as to why you, in particular, don't have a soulstone but are still using the abilities inherent to a particular job.

Then again, in most cases, acquiring a soulstone for a particular job is not that difficult.

The Warrior 50-60 questline and a lot of the "you gained a new ability" flavour text implicitly states that the Soulstone is what contains a number of techniques/powers you use and you unlock it via your experiences. The Warrior questline for 50-60 involves unlocking these powers by going out and doing various things or getting into battles with the sideplot being how to tame the Inner Beast.

I'm pretty sure since these abilities were completely lost to time and even though you read about them (which is also part of the questline) you couldn't just simply learn to use them that it is pretty much is flatly stating that you need to make the soulstone "remember" through your own experience.

LiadansWhisper · **10-12-2015, 03:57 PM**

(10-12-2015, 03:50 PM)Wemrys Wrote: The Warrior 50-60 questline and a lot of the "you gained a new ability" flavour text implicitly states that the Soulstone is what contains a number of techniques/powers you use and you unlock it via your experiences. The Warrior questline for 50-60 involves unlocking these powers by going out and doing various things or getting into battles with the sideplot being how to tame the Inner Beast.

I'm pretty sure since these abilities were completely lost to time and even though you read about them (which is also part of the questline) you couldn't just simply learn to use them. It pretty much is flatly stating that you need to make the soulstone "remember" through your own experience.

The White Mage quest does the same, but offers no real explanation for what you're learning other than, "You're using Succor and so you're figuring things out you don't already know." Â I think, however, it's important to differentiate from gameplay and lore, especially when little to no information is offered as to how you are learning things. Â Additionally, there is nothing to say that you could not have learned those techniques from someone who already knows them. Â There is no requirement, at least in the WHM questline, of this being the only way to discover those things.

Wemrys · **10-12-2015, 04:07 PM**

(10-12-2015, 03:57 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Additionally, there is nothing to say that you could not have learned those techniques from someone who already knows them. Â There is no requirement, at least in the WHM questline, of this being the only way to discover those things.

I will relent in the fact that the DRK questline mentions explicitly that there are certain abilities that Sidurgu teaches you and then others that you learn from your soulstone in particular moments where the power of the stone was triggered. I think you may have a point in this sense that the soulstone is a repository of lost arts in some cases, but in others you can learn things from other users.

LiadansWhisper · **10-12-2015, 04:22 PM**

(10-12-2015, 04:07 PM)Wemrys Wrote:
(10-12-2015, 03:57 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Additionally, there is nothing to say that you could not have learned those techniques from someone who already knows them. Â There is no requirement, at least in the WHM questline, of this being the only way to discover those things.

I will relent in the fact that the DRK questline mentions explicitly that there are certain abilities that Sidurgu teaches you and then others that you learn from your soulstone in particular moments where the power of the stone was triggered. I think you may have a point in this sense that the soulstone is a repository of lost arts in some cases, but in others you can learn things from other users.

I tend to think of them as the "Cliff Notes" version of whatever discipline you are learning. Â It's not all that different from, say, Luke Skywalker stumbling through trying to revive the Jedi techniques when he really didn't have anyone to teach him once Obi-Wan and Yoda were dead.

Martiallais · **10-13-2015, 11:24 PM**

Going to throw myself in as someone who doesn't really use soulstones in RP at all. It's training/talent/etc for my characters. But reading over the thread I do like the suggestion Crofte (I believe) mentioned, that they're simply cliff notes.

It won't be enough to help you pass a very in depth test, but enough for you to skirt a quiz if needed.

CrimsonMars · **10-14-2015, 02:09 AM**

(10-13-2015, 11:24 PM)Martiallais Wrote: Going to throw myself in as someone who doesn't really use soulstones in RP at all. It's training/talent/etc for my characters. But reading over the thread I do like the suggestion Crofte (I believe) mentioned, that they're simply cliff notes.

It won't be enough to help you pass a very in depth test, but enough for you to skirt a quiz if needed.

I'm pretty sure those are needed for those who do use soul stones anyway.

Momo · **10-14-2015, 09:20 PM**

I suppose I am not understanding why most of those who need a soulstone, can't just RP a quest to find one? Â As shown here, by many of the people who study their job/class lore well enough, there are ways of obtaining soulstones apart from those shown in the game.

Not all adventurers are strong...true enough, however barring being the actual WoL above all others, there is no reason, a learned and hardworking member of each and every job here, cannot work up to, and make themselves worthy of a soulstone, both in terms of IG and OOC goals.

Not all soulstones are readily available...true enough as well, however! Â We know what soulstones are essentially. Â We know what it basically takes to make one from piecing bits of lore together, and each job has been blessed with beyond enough lore to make the search for one much easier than some would make it out to be. Â Do your homework, study down to the detail, find that place where Black Mages and their magic were most active, find that black market trader in Ul'dah where all sorts of rare stones can be found, and have your character feel it out. Invite your friends, hire an NPC, hire a PC, to be that person who helps you find or obtain that soulstone you need to continue your work. Â We are a creative community in general, and I think it is reasonable to assume, that given a goal, we can work that goal out with enough examination and cross-examination of the facts.

For those of you who don't wish to use the soulstone to "upgrade" their class, be the best Gladiator or Ascanist or Thaumaturge you can, and forget the rest. Â If you are coming into situations where the kind of power those "upgraded" jobs are needed often, figure out what you think it will take to make your power at a reasonable enough level to handle these sorts of situations (also question your RP a bit, because these sorts of things shouldn't be happening everyday more than likely, though that is dependent on the character of course!) without needing to come into possession of a soulstone, or hell, lose a battle if you have to!

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Before anything is said to the contrary, the Gem of Shanotto is a soulstone, one of a kind as much as any soulstone is I suspect, and there is nothing that could stop one from not finding another, if anything, wait until Void Ark comes around, if it is all that it has been rumored to be, my guess is that a reasonable amount of information could be released as to point us in the direction of where Black Mages would be in concentration, or perhaps even have your character travel back into the ruins of the Belah'dia, and find a Black Mage soulstone hidden among the civilization which we believe came from Mhachi! Â There are ways to do these things, be creative!

I am not 100% certain, but I think White Mages do not need a soulstone to access Succor as we have already established? Â Technically, Succor is accessible to those outside the blessings of the Elementals, but it is rather nicer to have it passed down from them. Â That being said...Lost City is still as open as ever it was to us, and wouldn't take all that much to RP entrance into, if for the soul purpose of obtaining your own, once lost soulstone from the ancient ruins of the Amdapori, the greatest nation of White Mages that ever lived.

And so on and so forth with these sorts of things....

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My top suggestion! Â Don't be so over embellished with your RP that you are the WoL come again to free us all from the rules of lore, but never be so minimalist as to lock out yourself and everyone around you, from having well thought-out and meaningful RP which is supported by current lore, as with the case of soulstones!

Vitamin C · **10-14-2015, 09:40 PM**

(10-12-2015, 03:45 PM)SessionZero Wrote: You don't need a soulstone to be a Dark Knight. Fray's spirit shocks awake your darkside but you don't necessarily need the stone to do such. Besides that, your darkside isn't necessarily the source of Dark Knight powers so much as a side effect. The source of a Dark Knight's power is raw emotion.

It was the interaction of touching the crystal that sparked a connection between you and Fray. However,

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(10-12-2015, 03:45 PM)Fray Wrote: "Not so fast. We need to talk about what's happening to youâ”€what's growing within you, before you get carried away. There's a darkness within us allâ”€nothing dangerous, mind. In fact, it's quite healthy. But the crystal changes youâ”€gives you the power to channel it. Do it without proper training, however, and...well...it might hurt. So go aheadâ”€ask me to teach you. Ask me to instruct you in the ways of the dark knights, and I will. I know you're still worried about that screaming woman, so I'll keep this brief. We dark knights don't care one whit for prestige or pedigree. We are free to follow our heartsâ”€to defend the weak and punish the guilty as we see fit. The law of the land? The authority of a name? These are tools cowards use to escape harm. We have no need of shields figurative or literal. Hereâ”€my blade is your blade, my soul crystal your crystal. Go on, take them. You'll need them soon enough."

(10-12-2015, 03:45 PM)Fray Wrote: "Well, well, don't you look the part. Ready to harness the darkness within to set the wrong things right. Now, bear in mind that while the darkness gives you strength, that strength comes at cost. That is but one sacrifice, thoughâ”€and justice demands many. Say a manâ”€a venerable, untouchable manâ”€harms a child in unspeakable ways. He strides through the Hoplon, secure in the knowledge that he is beyond punishment. But for one who cuts down that vile beast as he flaunts his freedom, who knows how many others will suffer? Such was the dilemma faced by a goodly knight long ago. He knew that he would be stripped of his titles and denounced for the deed. The threshold we refuse to cross is a line we drew for ourselves. We fear the consequences, and people suffer for our indecision. Everyone who held that crystal came to conquer that fear, and became who they wanted to be. That knight was the first. Will you be the next? Think on that while we look into the commotion down below."

While I'm not necessarily disagreeing with the aforementioned statement, Fray does give some heavy implications on the necessity of the soul crystal.

(I hate that we're calling them soulstones in a game where crystals are relevant, we're not Warlocks from WoW.)

*Lore Source(s):
(lv. 50) Our End
(lv. 30) Ishgardian Justice

Edit: Fixed typos and added more lore tidbits. Dark Knight has been my favorite class since Leon Lionheart.

LiadansWhisper · **10-15-2015, 01:49 AM**

(10-14-2015, 09:20 PM)Momo Wrote: I am not 100% certain, but I think White Mages do not need a soulstone to access Succor as we have already established? Â Technically, Succor is accessible to those outside the blessings of the Elementals, but it is rather nicer to have it passed down from them. Â That being said...Lost City is still as open as ever it was to us, and wouldn't take all that much to RP entrance into, if for the soul purpose of obtaining your own, once lost soulstone from the ancient ruins of the Amdapori, the greatest nation of White Mages that ever lived.

In the context of the original quest, you don't need the soulstone to do anything. Â You get the soulstone because A-Towa-Cant chooses you as the heir to his teaching, which is the entire reason you're allowed to learn White Magic in the first place (think of it as your Passport to Cool Healer Things ™ ). Â A-Ruhn and his sister don't want to let you learn White Magic, but the Soulstone convinces Raya-O to give the thumbs up. Â A-Ruhn is so pissed off by the Soulstone part that he runs off in a snit.

Whenever you learn a new ability, it does say the standard line of "echoes of past White Mages" blah blah, but I honestly don't take that as a statement as proof that you "must" have the SoulStone to learn the magic.

Later in the 50-60 questline, the suggestion is made that because you are using your White Magic more and more, and conquering greater difficulties, you're learning to do more and more powerful spells within White Magic, ostensibly thru the Soulstone since Raya-O and A-Ruhn spend most of the questline...I'm not going to give it away, but they're basically useless.

However, there's nothing to suggest that you couldn't get the same knowledge from training under a master of the school of magic. Â It's just, the soulstone makes it easier and faster.

Jonexe · **10-15-2015, 09:34 AM**

Not sure if it's been covered; but the Summoner, Black Mage, and Scholar quests all deal with you learning techniques recovered from ancient tomes that are being 'deciphered' by your quest giver (with the 50~60 SCH stuff being taught to you directly). That says to me a soul stone isn't required to learn the abilities or use them; outside the implications from the BLM stuff that using Black Magic without the stone will

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Coatleque · **10-15-2015, 09:40 AM**

Y'shtola probably doesn't have a white mage's soulstone either. I can remember two instances in the MSQ where she shocks many people with the power she's obtained. They are called forbidden magics for a reason. But forbidden =/= forgotten.

Wemrys · **10-15-2015, 09:50 AM**

It seems to me that through various points made in this thread that while soulstones/crystals are a repository of ancient power, they're not so much there to give you the power itself to use the abilities. Rather they act as an aetheric conduit or focus (much like how one needs a focus to do conjury/thaumaturgy/etc) to control or at least focus the power you've come upon into a usable form.

The Paladin soulstone seems to draw out holy power within you, Dark Knight focuses your inner darkness into power you can channel through emotion, Warrior gives you power to focus your Inner Beast into a berserker form, White Mage seems to give you enough focus to use Succor, Dragoon allows you to control the blood of the dragon...

The caveat that comes with all this new focused power is that you must learn to control it yourself, the soul crystal cannot do it for you, it's merely there so you have the ability to access this power. Fail and any number of bad juju will happen to you depending on what power you're drawing on.

Wemrys · **10-15-2015, 10:03 AM**

(10-15-2015, 09:40 AM)Coatleque Wrote: Y'shtola probably doesn't have a white mage's soulstone either. I can remember two instances in the MSQ where she shocks many people with the power she's obtained. They are called forbidden magics for a reason. But forbidden =/= forgotten.

Y'shtola is a Conjurer not a White Mage so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. The forbidden magicks she uses doesn't seem to have anything to do with conjury/the succor at all, rather it's heavily implied it was magick created and forbidden by the Sharlyans. Anyone can use it but the long cast time and devastating effects to both user and opponent show it's something well beyond anything we've been able to cast in any class so far.

If someone were using forbidden magicks ICly I would expect it to be a single spell they discovered with devastating consequences for using it and maybe a detailed plot behind it. I'd be a bit worried if someone were flinging around forbidden magicks like common cantrips.

(Also apologies for doublepost)

Austratus · **10-18-2015, 04:20 AM**

Reading this thread actually got me to thinking about a RP reason why my character might hold a soulstone.

I've always floated around the idea that Kroemgarr was enamored by the stories of an Ishgardian trader, which led him to take up the lance and become an adventurer. Would it be plausible that-- should said merchant be a retired Dragoon with a soulstone on his person-- that the crystal would fragment into a new stone upon sensing Kroemgarr's "worthiness"?Â

I'm half thinking about the process by which Materia could be born in (original) VII as part of the inspiration.

V'aleera · **10-18-2015, 04:43 PM**

I don't know about whether a soul crystal can function if it fragments, but if you want to play up the quasi-sentient bit you could always have it conveniently fall off of his person One Ring style.

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Lore Question: Soulstones and how to acquire them.

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